PDA

View Full Version : prius not so green?


thebarber
12-19-2006, 07:04 AM
amusing how the true environmental cost of the prius is actually so high...

original article (http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=417227&in_page_id=1770)

The 'green-living' Toyota Prius has become the ultimate statement for those seeking to stress their commitment to the environment.

However, the environment-saving credentials of the cars are seriously undermined by the disclosure that one of the car's essential components is produced at a factory that has created devastation likened to the arid environment of the moon.

So many plants and trees around the factory at Sudbury in Ontario, Canada, have died that astronauts from Nasa practised driving moon buggies on the outskirts of the city because it was considered the closest thing on earth to the rocky lunar landscape.

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/11/nickelmine181106_468x309.jpg

Unlike normal cars, hybrids such as the Prius, whose proud owners include Gwyneth Paltrow, Brad Pitt, Julia Roberts and ex-Tory leader Michael Howard, are powered by a battery that contains nickel - as well as a traditional petrol engine.

Toyota gets the metal from a Canadian company whose smelting facility at Sudbury has spewed sulphur dioxide into the air for more than a century.

The car giant buys about 1,000 tons a year from the plant, which is owned by Inco, one of the world's largest nickel-mining companies.

Fumes emerging from the factory are so poisonous that they have destroyed vegetation in the surrounding countryside, turning the once-beautiful landscape into the bare, rocky terrain astronauts might expect to find in outer space.

Although efforts have been made in recent years to reduce emissions from the plant's 1,250ft chimney - dubbed the Superstack - campaigners say the factory is still respon-sible for some of the worst pollution in North America.

David Martin, energy co-ordinator of Greenpeace Canada, said: "The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside.

"The solution they came up with was the Superstack. The idea was to dilute the pollution, but all it did was spread the fallout right across northern Ontario. Things improved in the Nineties but the plant is still responsible for large-scale emissions of sulphur dioxide.

"Sudbury remains a major environmental and health problem. The environmental cost of producing that car battery is pretty high."

Once the nickel is smelted it is sent 10,000 miles on a container ship journey which in itself consumes vast quantities of fuel and energy.

First it is shipped to Europe's biggest nickel refinery at Clydach near Swansea, South Wales. From there it is transported to the Chinese cities of Dalian and Shenyang to be turned into a lightweight substance called nickel foam.

The final stage of the manufacturing process takes place in Japan where the Prius batteries are made.

Toyota produced nearly 180,000 Prius cars last year, some 4,000 of which were sold in Britain. Last week 14 MPs from all parties claimed they had exchanged their petrol-guzzling vehicles for a Prius or similar hybrid.

But some experts doubt whether the Prius even wins the argument over fuel consumption.

Robert Fowler, of the Battery Vehicle Association, said: "It is questionable whether it does any more miles to the gallon than a good diesel.

"The hybrid system has a very small battery so most of the time it's operating as a petrol car, particularly out of town and above 30mph."

A Toyota spokesman said last night: "I cannot confirm the source of the nickel used in the Prius battery. It is true there is a slight increase in the energy required to produce the materials for the car."

2way
12-19-2006, 08:52 AM
Wait till consumers see the price it costs when they have to replace the batteries and get whacked w/a Hazardous Materials charge.

Beast
12-19-2006, 09:08 AM
oil company propaganda.

Like making regular cars is pollution free. :rolleyes:

thebarber
12-19-2006, 09:13 AM
oil company propaganda.

Like making regular cars is pollution free. :rolleyes:
well, the prius is essentially an echo with an electric engine in it too

and if the battery takes that much extra energy to make, how is a prius really worth it vs an echo/yaris?

prius drivers dont seem to understand that if youre hammering the right pedal all the time, youre using the gas engine.....you gotta take it easy

and the cost benefits of saving fuel dont outweigh the difference in initial cost between the prius and echo for like 200, 000 miles or something like that....

Beast
12-19-2006, 09:20 AM
oil company propaganda.

Like making regular cars is pollution free. :rolleyes:
well, the prius is essentially an echo with an electric engine in it too

and if the battery takes that much extra energy to make, how is a prius really worth it vs an echo/yaris?

prius drivers dont seem to understand that if youre hammering the right pedal all the time, youre using the gas engine.....you gotta take it easy

and the cost benefits of saving fuel dont outweigh the difference in initial cost between the prius and echo for like 200, 000 miles or something like that....


Who drives a Prius or an Echo and "hammers the right pedal?" They are obviously morons, and the idea of "cost benefits" is lost on them.

thebarber
12-19-2006, 09:36 AM
Who drives a Prius or an Echo and "hammers the right pedal?" They are obviously morons, and the idea of "cost benefits" is lost on them.
i dont disagree

but people drive how people drive...

marc
12-19-2006, 10:12 AM
bimbo box

GSBoek
12-19-2006, 10:39 AM
Who drives a Prius or an Echo and "hammers the right pedal?" They are obviously morons, and the idea of "cost benefits" is lost on them.
I do :chuckles: I drive a Yaris sedan at work and I do hammer it regularly. I get 30mpg, city cycle with lots of traffic. I'm far from being a moron though hehehe

Beast
12-19-2006, 10:50 AM
I drive a Yaris sedan at work and I do hammer it regularly. I get 30mpg, city cycle with lots of traffic. I'm far from being a moron though hehehe


that's a work vehicle. Drive that like it's stolen. :thumbup:

BobtheBuilder
12-19-2006, 10:52 AM
oil company propaganda.

Like making regular cars is pollution free. :rolleyes:


obviously the prius is responsible for the last 25 years of damage from that smelting factory...

i went on a road trip with my parents in their prius and averaged 55 mpg. i refrained from hammering the pedal because there was no response anyway. they knew what they were getting when they bought it, and they knew the fuel savings over a yaris (or comparable) were neglible. more than anything else, they bought it to make a statement.

Barabaika
12-19-2006, 11:23 AM
Probably, this article was paid by VW.
Diesel Volkswagen Polo BlueMotion makes 62mpg without any batteries.
And diesel cars will be again allowed in the USA soon.
http://www.volkswagen.com/vwcms_publish/vwcms/master_public/virtualmaster/en2/models/polo/polo_bluemotion.html

http://www.volkswagen.com/vwcms_publish/etc/medialib/vwcms/virtualmaster/com/models/polo/polo_bluemotion/content.Par.0013.Image.jpg

2way
12-19-2006, 11:45 AM
Like making regular cars is pollution free. :rolleyes:
Agreed... like the steel & rubber plants don't put out sulfur..
No offense thebarber... but its only Canada... lol... ;) j/k
Seriously tho... Canada has had this & other mining issues for decades.

Blue Bomber
12-19-2006, 04:09 PM
:moved: Probably, this article was paid by VW.
Diesel Volkswagen Polo BlueMotion makes 62mpg without any batteries.
And diesel cars will be again allowed in the USA soon.
http://www.volkswagen.com/vwcms_publish/vwcms/master_public/virtualmaster/en2/models/polo/polo_bluemotion.html

http://www.volkswagen.com/vwcms_publish/etc/medialib/vwcms/virtualmaster/com/models/polo/polo_bluemotion/content.Par.0013.Image.jpg
But VWs are POS's. :thumbdown

Celicasaur
12-19-2006, 04:48 PM
oh wow, are diesel cars not available in the usa???

SickCelica696
12-20-2006, 12:29 AM
oh wow, are diesel cars not available in the usa???

Not yet because of the sulfur content levels in the diesel fuel. But in 2008 they are completely changing the rules and making much much more strict on emissions.
they knew what they were getting when they bought it, and they knew the fuel savings over a yaris (or comparable) were neglible. more than anything else, they bought it to make a statement.
The first run of them (maybe still ) qualified to give you quite a large tax deduction for purchasing one, along with the honda insight. It was upwards of 9-10k$ I believe. Also you get to ride HOV lanes with one person if you have a SULEV vehicle

neological
12-20-2006, 06:53 AM
:moved: But VWs are POS's. :thumbdown
Yep and...

1: The Polo will never be crash test legal in the USA

2: It's the size of one of my shoes

Barabaika
12-22-2006, 01:45 PM
But VWs are POS's.
Probably, it's more about Mexicans who cannot produce the German quality cars.

Also, I highly doubt that Prius with its extremely complicated gasoline-electric-computer system is more reliable than a time-proved diesel engine with a manual transmission. Who can fix Prius if it fails, except a highly-skilled mechanic?

GSBoek
12-24-2006, 01:08 AM
Who can fix Prius if it fails, except a highly-skilled mechanic?
I was wondering the same thing too specially here in my place. Have seen a couple of 1st and 2nd gen Prius around here. On of them had a "Eat my voltage!" sticker. I couldn't help feeling sorry for the guy when something eventually goes wrong and he needs to get it fixed. He'll probably need to change his sticker to "Eats my money!"