kabal57
05-17-2002, 04:49 PM
Hi guys, I just recieved an email today from Steve Spence, managing editor of C&D. I originally sent a rambling email complaining about the 02 fuel cutoff and how toyota was basically lying to them by calling it a "glitch". <br>
Steve emailed me today asking that I clarify the email and that he would like to print it. He also says that he has called Toyota trying to get some kind of response from them on the issue :)
<br>
Maybe this will help us out guys! To any of you 02 fuel cutoff victims, it wouldnt hurt to email C&D again.
editors@caranddriver.com <br>
Here is my original email and the response it got, and my new email is at the very bottom. Any ideas/suggestions would be great :) <br>
Hi, Just dropping a email about your recent article featuring the celica gts. I noticed in the article that the writer was told by toyota that there was a "glitch" in the ecu that caused the rev limiter to kick in at 7500..
Well, as the owner of a 2002 gts, I can tell you it is NOT a glitch. All 2002 celica gts's have rev limiters that vary from 7600 to 7800 depending on the gear you are in. I am a member of Newcelica.org (great celica website, you should check it out if you have time ) and this is very disturbing to us owners of 02 gts celicas. Toyota has basically sold you guys a load of crap. Think about it, they say your limiter of 7500 was a "glitch". A glitch over what?? The normal 7600 it should cut off at? Well they screwed you out of a whole 100 rpm's. All of us 2002 owners feel like we got cheated by toyota since all the 01's and 00's have 8200 limiters.
Please do not misunderstand me, I am not writing this letter to complain to you about my car, but rather to ask if you can get some sort of official response from toyota about this situation. We 02 owners think that having some help from a nationally published performance mag such as your own could only help us put some pressure on toyota. (plus since you guys are a big mag, I'm sure it would be much easier to get some sort of response from toyota, rather than the average joe) I'm sure you'll prob get alot of emails over the next few days from fellow nc.org members, We all really love our cars but are really disturbed by this situation. Plz take into consideration our request. We could really use your help.
Thank you for your time
Sam
p.s. here is a link to the thread that got this started.. in case youd like to see it :)
http://www.newcelica.org/
well its a link to the site, just look for letter writing campaign.
thanks again.
<br> <b> This is the response I got: </b>
Dear Sam
I would like to address your e-mail about the Celica GT-S, but there's
some confusion here.
The Toyota press kit lists "the redline" of the 2002 Celica GT-S model
as 7800 rpm.
Pat Bedard wrote (after noting the car's 7800 redline) about "a killjoy
rev limiter that came on duty a few hundred revs too early," suggesting maybe
7600 or 7500.
But you, an owner of this car, refer to "the normal 7600 it should cut
off at." That means you think the redline/rev-limiter is 7600, while Toyota
says it's 7800? What does the dash gauge indicate (our test car is long
gone). And you say Toyota has screwed its owners "out of a whole 100 rpms,"
but sounds to me like it should be more like 300 rpm, right, as the
rev-limiter should not cut in until the 7800 rpm redline is hit, right?
If you can clear this up, I'll print the letter. I've already called
Toyota for a official reaction, but I'm not getting the difference between
what you say is a 7600 cut off point and Toyota's claim of a 7800 redline.
Also, please give me your name and the town and state in which you
live.
steve spence, managing editor, car and driver <br>
<b> and here is my new re-written email back to steve: </b> <br>
Dear Steve Spence,
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my email regarding the fuel cutoff for the celica gts. I am sorry my original letter was not as clear as I would have liked it to be, It was kinda late at night when I wrote it :)
I have re-written it for you, hopefully doing a much better job explaining my point of view on the issue regarding the fuel cutoff/redline. Feel free to edit it as you see fit, I and many other celica owners just would like to see if a magazine with clout like yours can get some kind of response or anything out of toyota regarding this issue, as it is a really important thing to us (celica owners) and we are getting stonewalled by Toyota. Thanks again for your interest in my email
on behalf of myself and many other 02 Celica GT-S owners.
Sam Martinez
Dear Car & Driver,
I am the proud owner of a 2002 Celica GT-S, but have a problem with a misleading statement by Toyota regarding your recent article on the Celica. I would like to see if you could get some kind of response from Toyota on why they changed the fuel cut off for the 2002 Celica GT-S, but yet made no mention of it to anyone, and call this new cutoff a "glitch". It is well known in the Celica community that the 2000 and early 2001 model Celica GT-S had a fuel cutoff that did not kick in untill 8200-8300 rpm's. The late 2001 and all 2002 models have a 7800 rpm redline, and the fuel cutoff / rev limiter kicks in anywhere from 7600 to 7800 rpms. This has been confirmed many times by numerous owners of 2002 GT-S Celicas over at newcelica.org.
I, and many other 2002 Celica owners really take offense to the very misleading statement by Toyota that the 7500-7600 rpm fuel cutoff in your test car was "a glitch in the car's ecu". This makes it sound like the car was truly abnormal. Toyota has told at least 2 magazine publications this same story, (SCC got the same ecu excuse from Toyota in a recent article on the 2002 Celica GT-S also) and it gets printed and people believe that new Celicas will be quicker than your test car, but they really will not be. The fuel cutoff in your test car is almost exactly the same to what all of us 2002 owners have as a fuel cutoff now, ranging anywhere from 7600-7800 rpms, it varies slightly depending on the car. This is a loss of anywhere from 400 to 600 rpm's! This earlier fuel cutoff really hurts acceleration and 1/4 times, as it is now almost impossible to land on the big cam during the 1-2 shift. We (Celica owners) have emailed and called Toyota for an offical response on this issue many times, but have recieved no response. I, and many others would be most grateful for any help you could give us in getting a response from Toyota in this matter and hopefully, some kind of resolution. Thank you for your interest,
Sam Martinez
Steve emailed me today asking that I clarify the email and that he would like to print it. He also says that he has called Toyota trying to get some kind of response from them on the issue :)
<br>
Maybe this will help us out guys! To any of you 02 fuel cutoff victims, it wouldnt hurt to email C&D again.
editors@caranddriver.com <br>
Here is my original email and the response it got, and my new email is at the very bottom. Any ideas/suggestions would be great :) <br>
Hi, Just dropping a email about your recent article featuring the celica gts. I noticed in the article that the writer was told by toyota that there was a "glitch" in the ecu that caused the rev limiter to kick in at 7500..
Well, as the owner of a 2002 gts, I can tell you it is NOT a glitch. All 2002 celica gts's have rev limiters that vary from 7600 to 7800 depending on the gear you are in. I am a member of Newcelica.org (great celica website, you should check it out if you have time ) and this is very disturbing to us owners of 02 gts celicas. Toyota has basically sold you guys a load of crap. Think about it, they say your limiter of 7500 was a "glitch". A glitch over what?? The normal 7600 it should cut off at? Well they screwed you out of a whole 100 rpm's. All of us 2002 owners feel like we got cheated by toyota since all the 01's and 00's have 8200 limiters.
Please do not misunderstand me, I am not writing this letter to complain to you about my car, but rather to ask if you can get some sort of official response from toyota about this situation. We 02 owners think that having some help from a nationally published performance mag such as your own could only help us put some pressure on toyota. (plus since you guys are a big mag, I'm sure it would be much easier to get some sort of response from toyota, rather than the average joe) I'm sure you'll prob get alot of emails over the next few days from fellow nc.org members, We all really love our cars but are really disturbed by this situation. Plz take into consideration our request. We could really use your help.
Thank you for your time
Sam
p.s. here is a link to the thread that got this started.. in case youd like to see it :)
http://www.newcelica.org/
well its a link to the site, just look for letter writing campaign.
thanks again.
<br> <b> This is the response I got: </b>
Dear Sam
I would like to address your e-mail about the Celica GT-S, but there's
some confusion here.
The Toyota press kit lists "the redline" of the 2002 Celica GT-S model
as 7800 rpm.
Pat Bedard wrote (after noting the car's 7800 redline) about "a killjoy
rev limiter that came on duty a few hundred revs too early," suggesting maybe
7600 or 7500.
But you, an owner of this car, refer to "the normal 7600 it should cut
off at." That means you think the redline/rev-limiter is 7600, while Toyota
says it's 7800? What does the dash gauge indicate (our test car is long
gone). And you say Toyota has screwed its owners "out of a whole 100 rpms,"
but sounds to me like it should be more like 300 rpm, right, as the
rev-limiter should not cut in until the 7800 rpm redline is hit, right?
If you can clear this up, I'll print the letter. I've already called
Toyota for a official reaction, but I'm not getting the difference between
what you say is a 7600 cut off point and Toyota's claim of a 7800 redline.
Also, please give me your name and the town and state in which you
live.
steve spence, managing editor, car and driver <br>
<b> and here is my new re-written email back to steve: </b> <br>
Dear Steve Spence,
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my email regarding the fuel cutoff for the celica gts. I am sorry my original letter was not as clear as I would have liked it to be, It was kinda late at night when I wrote it :)
I have re-written it for you, hopefully doing a much better job explaining my point of view on the issue regarding the fuel cutoff/redline. Feel free to edit it as you see fit, I and many other celica owners just would like to see if a magazine with clout like yours can get some kind of response or anything out of toyota regarding this issue, as it is a really important thing to us (celica owners) and we are getting stonewalled by Toyota. Thanks again for your interest in my email
on behalf of myself and many other 02 Celica GT-S owners.
Sam Martinez
Dear Car & Driver,
I am the proud owner of a 2002 Celica GT-S, but have a problem with a misleading statement by Toyota regarding your recent article on the Celica. I would like to see if you could get some kind of response from Toyota on why they changed the fuel cut off for the 2002 Celica GT-S, but yet made no mention of it to anyone, and call this new cutoff a "glitch". It is well known in the Celica community that the 2000 and early 2001 model Celica GT-S had a fuel cutoff that did not kick in untill 8200-8300 rpm's. The late 2001 and all 2002 models have a 7800 rpm redline, and the fuel cutoff / rev limiter kicks in anywhere from 7600 to 7800 rpms. This has been confirmed many times by numerous owners of 2002 GT-S Celicas over at newcelica.org.
I, and many other 2002 Celica owners really take offense to the very misleading statement by Toyota that the 7500-7600 rpm fuel cutoff in your test car was "a glitch in the car's ecu". This makes it sound like the car was truly abnormal. Toyota has told at least 2 magazine publications this same story, (SCC got the same ecu excuse from Toyota in a recent article on the 2002 Celica GT-S also) and it gets printed and people believe that new Celicas will be quicker than your test car, but they really will not be. The fuel cutoff in your test car is almost exactly the same to what all of us 2002 owners have as a fuel cutoff now, ranging anywhere from 7600-7800 rpms, it varies slightly depending on the car. This is a loss of anywhere from 400 to 600 rpm's! This earlier fuel cutoff really hurts acceleration and 1/4 times, as it is now almost impossible to land on the big cam during the 1-2 shift. We (Celica owners) have emailed and called Toyota for an offical response on this issue many times, but have recieved no response. I, and many others would be most grateful for any help you could give us in getting a response from Toyota in this matter and hopefully, some kind of resolution. Thank you for your interest,
Sam Martinez