EIP Project Celica updated

[racinjason]

Their Project Celica GT-S page has been updated. With dyno results. 320hp @ 14psi!!! this equals 376hp at the crank!!!! HOLY SHEIT!!! The coservative hp for a stock internal engine @ 6psi is 260hp at the wheels or 305 at the crank. Either of these setups in our 2500lb cars is crazy hp/weight ratio! Like Viper stomping power here!!! I'm going down this saturday to talk to the guys.

[aZnTrD2k]

376hp:AF: :AF: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Keyshawn]

Click on this link for more info: http://www.eiptuning.com/projects/toyotacelicaturboproject.html

[ToyoGT]

daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaammmmmmmnnnn!!!!! ! so how much for just the turbo kit and intercooler????

[nyoneway]

Why did they only get like 128 hp on base run??? It looks like a GT-S?

[racinjason]

It from an auto GT-S dyno run thats been in thier files for ages. Since before I dynoed there. Back in early 2000.

[TeeAREdee]

god damn....how much is it gonna retail for??

[GTS LAID]

told you the bottom could handle it... you just need to make sure the pistons dont smack the valve and that the internals are stronger ... I'm not even sure you need stronger pistons.. but i'm sure they replaced them for lower CR.

[larryd]

wow.. it just might be that time to come back ;)

[GTS LAID]

you heard about the eclipse wheels.. use that as an excuse. lol

[nyoneway]

Larry, how is the suspension and handling on the Eclipse? Very rarely do I see Eclipse in track/road racing. Are they really that bad in a road course? Can they ever compare to a Celica or a Type R in that matter if you upgrade the suspension on a Eclipse?

[GTS LAID]

theres one that i autox with... its a GS... he has it dropped a little... he does OK... the celica posts better raw times than him.

[larryd]

Originally posted by nyoneway
Larry, how is the suspension and handling on the Eclipse? Very rarely do I see Eclipse in track/road racing. Are they really that bad in a road course? Can they ever compare to a Celica or a Type R in that matter if you upgrade the suspension on a Eclipse?

us FWD guys have no chance.. I could handle with a GTS with a few mods on the streets but not on a road course or autox.. now ofcours the AWD guys are a different story, there cars handle A TON better

[00CericaRuss]

dear lordy! that's some scary amount of hp!

[celica70]

that gt-s has a new block, its like a engine engine. not even a toyota engine barelly.

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by nyoneway
Why did they only get like 128 hp on base run??? It looks like a GT-S?

Yeah, that seems low even for an auto GT-S.

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by GTS LAID
told you the bottom could handle it... you just need to make sure the pistons dont smack the valve and that the internals are stronger ... I'm not even sure you need stronger pistons.. but i'm sure they replaced them for lower CR.

Yeah, I've also heard the stock bottom end on the 2zz is fairly strong for an n/a 4 banger. But the question about EIP Tuning's set-up is this is: Can the 2zz hold that power fairly reliably? And for how many miles will it be able to do this? I guess we'll haveta wait and see.

[LaW]

Originally posted by celica70
that gt-s has a new block, its like a engine engine. not even a toyota engine barelly.

Are you sure? The way I read it I thought there were just modifications made to the stock block to reinforce it.

[LaW]

Originally posted by racinjason
Their Project Celica GT-S page has been updated. With dyno results. 320hp @ 14psi!!! this equals 376hp at the crank!!!! HOLY SHEIT!!! The coservative hp for a stock internal engine @ 6psi is 260hp at the wheels or 305 at the crank. Either of these setups in our 2500lb cars is crazy hp/weight ratio! Like Viper stomping power here!!! I'm going down this saturday to talk to the guys.

The dyno sheet if I am not mistaken actually says 260whp @ 9psi

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by LaW


The dyno sheet if I am not mistaken actually says 260whp @ 9psi

After squinting my eyes, I agree. It doesn't say anything about that run being done with stock internals. 9 psi with a stock-internaled 2zz would be pretty nuts.

[Mafiesto]

I read the entire thing. THey made new pistons and rods. Sleeved the block, did a full port and polish on the head and a bunch of other stuff. They also put a stand alone fuel system and done away with the individual coils and had an somewhat of a distributor set up. If you notice, it has plug wires.

[LaW]

so we probably won't see this going as a kit i would assume? unless it were done inhouse of course

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by LaW
so we probably won't see this going as a kit i would assume? unless it were done inhouse of course

Yeah, this definitely is not a bolt-on kit we can buy and install ourselves. Everything about it (changing the internals, wiring and tuning the TEC III) is complex and expensive. It's a great-looking project, though. Props to EIP. Those guys need some coverage from the mags.

[celicauk]

Originally posted by Mafiesto
They also put a stand alone fuel system and done away with the individual coils and had an somewhat of a distributor set up. If you notice, it has plug wires.

I had a look at the TECIII site, it doesn't say anything against the ECU for utilising the VVT although it should be able to handle the VVL as it can do VTEC. I eMailed them a couple of weeks back asking for them to confirm operation of VVT and so far no response.

The coil setup is fair enough, its a CDI system which will give a much stronger spark as required on FI systems, far better than leaving it stock ignition. I suspect the real reason for doing this though will be an inability to drive the stock coil packs correctly, when I tried this on the Haltech the packs wouldn't fire as expected, I think this is due to them having the dwell control handled on board the coil pack and not the ECU so it is necessary to figure out the charge time and discharge trigger, not easy when nippon denso won't answer the emails and Toyota don't have a clue. Its just easier to use the CDI system on the aftermarket ECU as you knwo what you are getting.

I suspect they also had the same problems with the signals for timing (crank and cam). They probably replaced them with the TECIII sensors, not a bad thing as the crank timing on the TECIII is more accurate with a 62 tooth wheel.

PErsonally I don't see any reason why this couldn't be sold as a kit, about the only thing most of us can't do in the garage at home is sleeve the block.

Looks good to me :D

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by celicauk


PErsonally I don't see any reason why this couldn't be sold as a kit, about the only thing most of us can't do in the garage at home is sleeve the block.

Looks good to me :D

The TEC III is not plug-and-play, which means that sensors and the wiring harness will have to be rewired. TEC III's usually don't come pre-tuned either. Also, all the internals on EIP's engine (pistons, rods, etc.) are swapped out for stronger units. I don't think most peeps here have the ability to do those things.

[celicauk]

Hmmm, I guess I am assuming that anyone taking on a job like this would be well equipped, I know my garage at home is pretty much setup so you could run a small business from there no problem, not many jobs I can't do.

[chrisle7220]

376hp?? do you think with a turbo and a few other mods, a gt can do the same????

[ToyoGT]

doubt it. i'm sure that thing could spin thru 3rd why didn't they make us RWD:(

[celicauk]

Personally I don't see why not, after all the main benfit of the 2ZZ is a wilder cam at high revs, other than that, not a lot of difference. If you go for a reprofiled cam on the 1ZZ you should be able to get pretty close, might well cost more and low end could be a pig but top end should be close.

[shyvpboi]

Originally posted by racinjason
Their Project Celica GT-S page has been updated. With dyno results. 320hp @ 14psi!!! this equals 376hp at the crank!!!! HOLY SHEIT!!! The coservative hp for a stock internal engine @ 6psi is 260hp at the wheels or 305 at the crank. Either of these setups in our 2500lb cars is crazy hp/weight ratio! Like Viper stomping power here!!! I'm going down this saturday to talk to the guys.

I don't know about the numbers, but with the stock internals, the car will be runs 260hp at the wheels @ 6psi which is pretty good numbers. But with the whole race setup, all they got was 320hp @ 14 psi. I think something is wrong with that number, it looks like the whole setup costed about $10,000 and @ 14psi, it should be closer to 400 hp I think. See, if you do the math, I know that you will gain about 20hp from TEC III + 10-15hp from exhaust + race internals @ 14psi = 320+==>(60+)hp. And btw, what turbo are they using???

[celicauk]

Aren't you making assumptions based on increases from NA applications here? I would have thought that all the work done on the engine, including exhaust, intake, fuelling and ECU are there to support the turbo rather than to improve the performance as would be the case in an NA setup. The TECIII for instance will be there to map the engine as the stock unit won't have tolerance for that much power, therefore the gain isn't just 20hp, its however much they tune the car.

[Red-one]

With 14-20 psi we don't need iron sleeves.....I have another car a D-16 honda turbo and with 8.5 comp and It handles 22 psi without blockgard and it's been running for 3 years now without mayor problems...only replacement to engine since it's an upgrade head gasket from asbestos to metal and that's it....My d-16 block is much fragile than my 2zzge so I'm thinking ordering custom 9.5 arias pistons and getting my engine block and rods modified to accept ARP 2000 bolts and that should be it for generating close to EIP's Celica power...

I think 320whp is good for 14psi my estimate is that this engine at 22psi would be around 450whp.....

BRGS
RED

[FL Honda Stompr]

thats one helluva celica.

[X-EVIL-X]

376 hp....
whats the torque numbers.
hmmm their in the 12's easy.......low 12's
holy sh*t
http://www.eiptuning.com/projects/toyotacelicaturbodynosheet.jpg

[celicauk]

I am looking forward to sorting out the fuelling problems on my SC VVTi, looking at that graph at 3500 rpm they are producing about 80bhp, the dyno I did on Friday showed my car producing 110bhp at 3500 rpm, by the time the turbo spools up I am long gone :D

I reckon with the intercooler, water injection and larger supercharger I should be up near those figures only lower in the rev range.

[larryd]

Originally posted by celicauk
by the time the turbo spools up I am long gone :D

actually, youd still be sitting there right next to the turbo charged Celica spinning your tires ;)

[celicauk]

LOL, good point, however, traction control courtesy of Racelogic with launch control.......BYEEeeeeeee!

[larryd]

hmm, ok Ill give u that ;)

[bickley]

Hey Racin Jason, did you ever go to EIP's shop to check them out? What's the real story?

[PorkchopSpecblue GT-S]

All I got to say is WOW

[CheezeFrog]

Something doesn't seem right. 320hp on a fully built engine with a ported head with stand-alone EM? Sounds a little on the low side to me. There's probably a lot more power to be made when that thing is dialed in.

[MSR27]

Damn, now us GT guys have something to worry about.

[chrisle7220]

we dont have to worry, once we lower the compression on the out gt, we can still run more boost!! they run 14psi, we run 20-25psi!!!

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by chrisle7220
we dont have to worry, once we lower the compression on the out gt, we can still run more boost!! they run 14psi, we run 20-25psi!!!

Please explain, citing supporting evidence, why a GT with lower compression pistons would be able to run that much more boost than a GT-S that also has low compression pistons. I've never seen or read about a 1zz that runs 20-25 psi.

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

Ummm.... I dont think the GT or GTS rods can handle anything more than 15psi and I don't think that our open deck can support that. Dont forget we have an open decked head so with all that boost we start to see the combustion chambers do the macarena.

[chrisle7220]

then how come some cars run 20-20psi??? and since the gt already has a lower compression then a gt-s, when you lower compression on both cars, you will still have lower compression on the gt then the gt-s, so you can run more boost on the gt. am i right??

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by chrisle7220
and since the gt already has a lower compression then a gt-s, when you lower compression on both cars, you will still have lower compression on the gt then the gt-s, so you can run more boost on the gt. am i right??

No. Once you add lower compression pistons into the equation, you can lower compression on a GT-S to the same level that a GT can go.

These turbo GT vs. turbo GT-S "pissing contests" are pretty pointless anyway, since almost nobody even has a turbocharged new Celica except for a few custom turbo kits on show cars that are never really run on a track.

[RUSHIIII]

OK thats really good results from EIP. Heres my thing though, how the hell can we expect teh tranny to hold up though. Its going have to be rebuilt from the ground up. New clutch, LSD, maybe cryo treated just to hold that. So I would figure the price of the kit plus tranny work. I personally dont car about the cost considering what final results are attained. Rather do it right the first time.

Laters
Chris

[GTS LAID]

Originally posted by Keyshawn


No. Once you add lower compression pistons into the equation, you can lower compression on a GT-S to the same level that a GT can go.

These turbo GT vs. turbo GT-S "pissing contests" are pretty pointless anyway, since almost nobody even has a turbocharged new Celica except for a few custom turbo kits on show cars that are never really run on a track.

actually i'd put 10 to 1 odds on a 2zz with the same comp. ratio being able to outboost a 1zz without detonation... the 2zz has a MUCH stouter bottom... anyone telling you otherwise hasn't been reading any of the articles on MMC and the construction of their engines.

as for rods... who cares... there are aftermarket ones available already that could probably handle that much boost.

[CheezeFrog]

Hey, guys. Just a friendly heads up amongst friends before you go spouting off some arguments on other boards and end up looking goofy: Compression has almost nothing to do with how much boost you can run. It's maximum cylinder pressure that pops your motor, not boost. A 4000psi spike will break things. 20psi in the intake manifold isn't going to do jack. Granted, extra manifold pressure will increase maximum cylinder pressure, all else being equal. But that can easily be taken care of by taking out some timing and/or adjusting the a/f. :)

[GTS LAID]

Originally posted by CheezeFrog
Hey, guys. Just a friendly heads up amongst friends before you go spouting off some arguments on other boards and end up looking goofy: Compression has almost nothing to do with how much boost you can run. It's maximum cylinder pressure that pops your motor, not boost. A 4000psi spike will break things. 20psi in the intake manifold isn't going to do jack. Granted, extra manifold pressure will increase maximum cylinder pressure, all else being equal. But that can easily be taken care of by taking out some timing and/or adjusting the a/f. :)

I dont really know much about FI... from what i read though there are two types of problems... first is a problem of not getting enough fuel for the amount of air at high boost... which ends up jacking up the temps and literally detonating the motor...

the other is a more mechanical failure of pistons and rods b/c of the cylinder pressure at detonation...

what i'd like to know is why you can safely run 15 psi on a lower compression engine while on a higher one you'll have serious problems.

[CheezeFrog]

Originally posted by GTS LAID


I dont really know much about FI... from what i read though there are two types of problems... first is a problem of not getting enough fuel for the amount of air at high boost... which ends up jacking up the temps and literally detonating the motor... Right. Running lean is one thing that will bust your motor. If you don't do anything to address the a/f beyond the range the stock ECU (or its related sensors) can handle, you'll run into problems. But the motor itself should be physically capable of handling "high" boost like 15psi or so, with the right tuning.

the other is a more mechanical failure of pistons and rods b/c of the cylinder pressure at detonation...

what i'd like to know is why you can safely run 15 psi on a lower compression engine while on a higher one you'll have serious problems. Hmm, I'm not sure what you mean. When my new pistons come in, I'll be running 15psi plus on 11.5 CR on pump gas. st00pid is going to tune it to run like that in 90F+ Texas heat.

Sounds pretty crazy huh? I'll either post some timeslips or post pictures of my blown motor :)

[GTS LAID]

thats what i dont understand.. you said that pressures of 440psi would cause damage... but pressures of 10psi dont... ok what if we go to 20.. or 30 psi... doesnt it all multiply when you have a certain compression ratio...

i dunno... i always thought the reason people lower compression is so that they can achieve higher cylinder pressures by increasing intake manifold pressure instead of having the ratio bring it up.

[CheezeFrog]

I said a pressure spike of somewhere on the order of 4000psi would cause things to break. Normal cylinder pressure of around 1600psi (just throwing a # out there) is what the engine likes to see. Add a little bit of boost and keep everything else the same, and you'll see an increase in MCP -- not sure how much, but I know it doesn't follow a 1:1 ratio where 1psi manifold pressure = 1psi increase in MCP.

However, if you back up off the timing a little bit, you might even see a decrease in MCP under full boost. The trick is to getting your MCP a little after TDC (like 12-14 degrees from what I've read). Timing is everything! :)