is their really a difference racing an auto vs. manual?

[Iceit69]

does a difference exist between drag racing an auto and a manual. all the pro drag cars and pro imports and stuff have like "XXXXbrand automatic tranny" on the side and stuff. but everyone on this forum seems to keep the notion that mauals can blow autos out of the water. it would seem to me that if you upgraded the clutch and put in an ECU upgrade that would shift at 7900 instead of 7500 or whatever stock does, then it would be the same as a manual. i mean you could get a chip that would drop the clutch and everything. it would seem to me that with a little modifying, autos would be alot better. it would always shift EXACTALLY right EVERY time, unlike human error with the manual. i dunno, any thoughts? am i totally wrong?

[caz]

Originally posted by Iceit69
am i totally wrong?
:werd:

[nccelica]

those are racing auto transmissions... you can get one for the celica that would beat a manual, i believe someone mentioned it on the board several months ago, a stage 10 automatic transmission for around $8000 i think? i might be wrong

but stock auto vs stock manual, manual will win...

[nudge1201]

also autos have a 4 speed transmission. while even the 6 speeds gearing doesn't keep the engine in the powerband(lift, making the 2ZZ a very peaky engine) from 1-2 and 2-3. plus the extra power loss through the auto tranny.

[larryd]

the other thing your forgetting to mention is auto + 4 cylinder na cars vs auto + racecars are different becuase of the lack or torque.. a torqueless car with automatic is a dog.. mated to a manual you can make the best of the powerband..

So not all autos stink.. any automatic LS1 will give a 6spd a run for its $$, it will be close thruogh the 1/4 with the 6spd pulling hard up top

[2000 XYR]

I'm told Ford doesn't have a manual tranny that would handle my truck's torque, and that is the reason that there is no manual option. Who knows. I know it's fast as is. It would be nice if it had a shiftable automatic like the GT-S has. Seems like most auto cars now have a manually shiftable automatic.

Sidenote: Wasn't the Supra TT auto as fast if not faster than the 6-speed at one point?

[oo_snoopy]

The only point of the e-shift on the celica is to shift higher, and use the tranmission to brake.

[t2000gts]

on full out race cars, automatics are preferred for extreme competition because they're consistent and they don't want to risk messing up on launches and stuff. especially in drag racing.

you're seeing clutchless manuals more and more for road racing as well. hell, in Formula 1, most cars have automatic upshifts, and some have automatic downshifts too. automatic launch, automatic pit lane speed limiters, etc.

however in production cars, until those complete race transmissions are offered (not gonna be too soon), the manual transmissions have less power loss, and better gearing, and offer more control.

[Iceit69]

well i am enlightened... :)

[Wrekt]

I must say though, as ****ty as an automatic transmission is on a peaky 4 cylinder, the base RSX's auto 'tiptronic' is better than the celica's. 5 gears vs 4 gears. :I Toyota should have kept the GT-S's strictly as 6 speeds.

[TypeSzH]

Toyota want all the sales they can get with the GT-S. I would also like to see the GT-S only in 6spd.

[Ntence99]

there are about 10 peeps in my city with auto gts..im the only one the crowd that has a manual.i promise u that i dust them all! I am runnin 9 7's to 9;9s while they are a full second slower in the 8th mile.

[J3adSeed]

Originally posted by Ntence99
there are about 10 peeps in my city with auto gts..im the only one the crowd that has a manual.i promise u that i dust them all! I am runnin 9 7's to 9;9s while they are a full second slower in the 8th mile.

yeah i don't see why anyone would buy an auto gts. spend like 5k more than a manual gt and be the same speed.

[v8killa]

People buy auto's because when you have a ton of inner city driving a manual is a true pain. Stop go--stop go and so on, the Celica is a nice looking car and most people dont want to put up with all that shifting all the time in traffic. Yes the car is slower so what anything can be made faster who are you to criticize how someone else spends there money. By the way I have a Turbo-charged 20 Valve 4Age motor in my 95 automatic corolla you wanna race me with your all mighty 6-speed?????

[Ntence99]

i dont beleive n e one was critisizing you for buying an auto..just stating a fact..The AUTO GTS IS SLOW!!!! yeah your right n e thing can be made faster...but if your building a celica for speed...why hamper your performace potential?Why start out with a 1 second eighth mile handi cap?! Its an honest question.:confused:

[juicedcelica]

my opinio is if I was buying a v-8 automatic is the only way to go if you ad a torque stall converter you will be faster than the smae vehicle with a manuel tranny and you will be 100% accurate all of the time... how ever with a 4 cylinder manuel tranny is the only way to go our engines don't put out enough power from the get go to go with an auto with the manuel weather it be a 5spd or a 6spd you have the ability to keep it in the power and get a good luanch.... just my $.02

[BadTOYO]

Originally posted by v8killa
By the way I have a Turbo-charged 20 Valve 4Age motor in my 95 automatic corolla you wanna race me with your all mighty 6-speed?????
Come on now! no need to be abusive :) , you'll probably murder a stock GTS... But, how about a race against my 3SGTE powered 87 Celica ST 5 speed (turbo MR2 gearbox) ? :naughty:
R

[The Game]

Originally posted by v8killa
People buy auto's because when you have a ton of inner city driving a manual is a true pain.

Thats a matter of opinion, I dont get tried of my manual.

I'd like to see your 4A-GTE go up against BadTOYO's 3S-GTE, that'll would be a badass race :thumbup:

[t2000gts]

some crazy old school toyota action going on in this thread :D

[v8killa]

It's not a 4A GTE, the race where do you live oh never mind FL too I was thinking along the lines of meeting somewhere in the middle like the Carolina's ya know cause my corolla club has meetings there all the time. As for the starting with a handicap I don't think so when the celi comes back the tranny will be bulletproof and a level ten torque converter will handle all the launch issues. You guys are cool most of the time there isn't much on the board that makes me want to reply but yes the question was honest but also the guy stated " I don't know why anyone would spend 5K more on an auto". Hey your 3Sgte is that Jap Spec or US?

[BadTOYO]

Originally posted by v8killa
Hey your 3Sgte is that Jap Spec or US?
US spec, from an 88 alltrac turbo donor car... I just replaced the head and turbo, but I am having some problems I believe with the fuel delivery, I just don't have the time to work on it like I used to before I graduated...
check it out at:
http://badtoyo.home.attbi.com/
R

[v8killa]

Nice Photos I keep an album of my car the corolla has Jap Spec 20 V T3/T4 turbo, Wolf Stand alone E.M.S Spearco front mount intercooler, dual stage blow-off, toda racing cams (intake and exhaust 8.5/9.0), Toda racing metal head gasket and valve train kit with all the retainers other stuff too but I don't want to get flamed for talking corolla on the celica board. If know one flames after this post we could continue but the race how does that sound meeting up in the Carolina's, I really don't wanna go all the way to FL but I could cause we also have a FL corolla chapter so that would give me an excuse to come down but I really didn't want to head down that way until Nopi.

PS the Celi will be just as sick when it comes back out of the shop. The set up will be mild though want to keep it reliable.

[BadTOYO]

Originally posted by v8killa
Nice Photos I keep an album of my car the corolla has Jap Spec 20 V T3/T4 turbo, Wolf Stand alone E.M.S Spearco front mount intercooler, dual stage blow-off, toda racing cams (intake and exhaust 8.5/9.0), Toda racing metal head gasket and valve train kit with all the retainers other stuff too but I don't want to get flamed for talking corolla on the celica board. If know one flames after this post we could continue but the race how does that sound meeting up in the Carolina's, I really don't wanna go all the way to FL but I could cause we also have a FL corolla chapter so that would give me an excuse to come down but I really didn't want to head down that way until Nopi.

PS the Celi will be just as sick when it comes back out of the shop. The set up will be mild though want to keep it reliable.
I upgraded the turbo to a CT26 from a Supra, the interesting part was that, even though the alltrac and the supra both use the CT26, the supra unit has a bigger impeller wheel and the housing is also bigger; I upgraded the head gasket to a TTE metal one imported directly from Germany (thanks to the GT4 list for that GP!) and I am also using ARP studs on the head.
I haven't run the car with this setup yet, but I am planning on raising the boost to about 16psi, which is pushing the stock water to air IC to it's limits. I also need to get rid of the stock fuel cut of 12psi, but that shouldn't be a problem. As far as when I will get it done, I don't know, probably not any time soon, but I can't wait to take it to the track...
R

[v8killa]

That sounds really good I would really enjoy that race alot I am only running 12psi at the track I will turn it up if I need to my mechanic says I can run up to 20psi safely. I haven't needed to turn it up though, when my slicks arrive with my Motegi 5's I will though. The wheels only weigh 6.6 pounds that is awsome I can't wait. My stand alone lets me keep 3 presets, timed boost, low boost and high boost. I have only been in low boost. Heck the car is just a freak the looks on peoples faces is just priceless, my boy in is WRX was like that's it I am going into debt he thought he had me on the take of but when I passed him midway through 2nd I looked over and waved, then at 8100 rpm here came 3rd I was gone. I told him he was gonna need more than a new blow-off and boost controller, it took me azz rapin him for him to get the picture. His car goes into the shop Friday. I like the fact that people laugh at my corolla until witness it, makes me feel good, I know you feel the same way. ppsshhtt!! nothin like it!

[BadTOYO]

Originally posted by v8killa
Heck the car is just a freak the looks on peoples faces is just priceless
LOL! I guess you do know what that is like! oh man, I love it!
R

[v8killa]

The only negative about my car is the brakes I am trying to get a brake upgrade really bad those tiny little things that's the only reason why I don't really push it and my mechanic says boy we gotta get you some brakes bad I tried pushin it on this long strait I looked at my Heads up display it said 146 so I took my foot off the gas applied the brake gently to slow down and I swear it took forever, There is just way too much heat I go through those EBC's like it's nothin but its cool once the GTS comes out of the shop I can put the corolla back in for a serious brake upgrade.

[BadTOYO]

Originally posted by v8killa
The only negative about my car is the brakes I am trying to get a brake upgrade really bad those tiny little things that's the only reason why I don't really push it and my mechanic says boy we gotta get you some brakes bad I tried pushin it on this long strait I looked at my Heads up display it said 146 so I took my foot off the gas applied the brake gently to slow down and I swear it took forever, There is just way too much heat I go through those EBC's like it's nothin but its cool once the GTS comes out of the shop I can put the corolla back in for a serious brake upgrade.
I hear ya... that's why I also swapped the Alltrac's dual piston front calipers and upgraded the rear to GTS disc brakes (the ST came with drums). The entire front driveline and suspension components are Alltrac/MR2 spec, brakes, hubs, driveshafts, springs, shocks, and of course, transmission. I can dump the clutch at 6000 rpms, no problem.
R

[v8killa]

I'm Jealous j/k I would really like to know what my top speed is, just don't want to risk it those little things will lock up in a heart beat. Do you have any traction worries or what rubber do you plan to use at the track, and what do you use on the street.

[BadTOYO]

Originally posted by v8killa
I'm Jealous j/k I would really like to know what my top speed is, just don't want to risk it those little things will lock up in a heart beat. Do you have any traction worries or what rubber do you plan to use at the track, and what do you use on the street.
Traction is definitely a problem, but the car hooks up relatively good, since it has become very nose heavy. I am currently running on 205/50/15s, and I can roast them off the line if I really want to, but I have never taken the car to the track after the motor swap so I don't know how these tires will affect my ET... I guess, after I run it, I will know how much of a problem this is.
On the street, it's a whole different story, I don't really have to dump the clutch, just let it off easily, and punch it once I am rolling, the 3SGTE puts out all of it's 200lb/ft of torque at only 3200rpms, so the car gets up to speed quickly, as opposed to the torqueless 2ZZGE.
R

[po9i]

why don't you take the ST instead of th GTS tonight R?

[BadTOYO]

Originally posted by po9i
why don't you take the ST instead of th GTS tonight R?
Read above... the car is not running at the moment... I ran into some problems with the fuel delivery when I replaced the head and turbo...
R

[The Game]

Originally posted by v8killa
It's not a 4A GTE,

I know, I made it up :gap:

[v8killa]

Oh cool I thought you were talking about the stock turbocharged corolla they sell in austrailia they come 150 stock. I hope you didn't think I was being an azz or anything but you would be surprised how many people don't know the different toyota motor codes. Sorry I mis-understood your (T) thrown in there with the AGE.