mods that cost nothing?

[TRDcelicaGT]

Hey guys I was just wondering if their are any modifications we can do to our engine or car that will gain HP or TQ, I know they integras advance their timing to get some "free" HP and they also have something that makes the VTEC kick in faster? Is their anything like this for our car?

[xi KiNG ix]

eh, try to keep it on one forum.. check preformance forum..

[TRDcelicaGT]

if you dont have any coments on the topic try to keep it to your self

[krazyone]

i think xi KiNG ix was just tryin to help man, no need to get all angry

[TRD-CELICA-GT02]

dayum whats up with the hostility? xi KING ix was just suggesting to CHECK OUT THE PERFORMANCE forum. Maybe that there are some topics worth looking at.

[2002GT_Celica]

Well, there is the butterfly valve removal that will give you a whopping extra 1 hp.

[Zorn]

Originally posted by TRDcelicaGT
if you dont have any coments on the topic try to keep it to your self

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid15/pa0ebd17ac842951044789561b978d64e/fdea806e.jpg

[Britai 7018]

I agree, Butterfly removal. umm... i guess you could try and lower the weight of your car.. throwing out some trunk plastics and what not. removing your antennae to improve your aerodynamics that vital .00005 cD

[TRDcelicaGT]

I had already posted this onthe performance forum just wanted more people to reply to it he already had replied to my other post I didnt need his comment about keeping on the performance forum Im looking to discuss them here.

[Camry2000]

Gutting the car will make it faster and will cost you nothing but time.

[TRDcelicaGT]

This is more of what I want to know??????????????? I got it from an integra site.............

If you do not know how to adjust your ignition timing on your Honda,

Check out our How-To Article:
http://www.team-integra.net/sections/articles/showArticle.asp?ArticleID=60

Or this article at c-speedracing.com:
http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/timing/timing.html

However, before you start changing the timing, do you know what is meant by advancing ignition timing and what happens inside the cylinder when you advance this spark timing?

It's when you start the combustion event earlier. So like advancing your cam gears, the event is started earlier and finishes earlier.

You have to know about cylinder pressure and how cylinder pressures change inside the cylinder during the compression and power strokes of a 4 stroke engine like a Honda.

The way you locate where a piston is at along it's travels up and down the cylinder is by using crankshaft degrees. So when the piston is at the very top (top dead center, TDC) it's at 0 crankshaft degrees. When it has traveled down and reached the very bottom it has gone 180 degrees. When it reaches the top again, it has traveled 360 crankshaft degrees. That was 1 complete revolution of the crankshaft.

Here is a graph showing you what the pressure (Y-axis) is inside a cylinder and how pressure behaves as your crankshaft turns and the piston is going up and down during the compression stroke and power stroke.



This pic shows what happens during 5 combustion strokes in a row (5 solid lines).

The X-axis on the bottom is crankshaft degrees where zero degrees = TDC (when the piston is at the very top of it's travel and finished squeezing or compressing the air fuel mix on the compression stroke).

Any crank degree to the left of zero (negative number) is when the piston is still squeezing. So -20 degrees means the piston is squeezing and pushing up and -10 degrees means the piston has squeezed some more and is higher in terms of position and nearing the top of it's travel.

Any crank degree to the right of zero (positive number) is the power stroke. The piston is now starting to go back down and turning the crank. So +10 degrees means the piston has dropped down and +20 degrees means the piston has gone down even more away from the very top (TDC).

The dotted line on the very bottom shows you what the cylinder pressure would be if we did NOT light the air fuel mix with a spark.

Also notice that when you add a spark and cause an explosion (5 solid lines) the cylinder pressures shoot up way higher than they would compared to when the piston just squeezes the air fuel mix with no spark (dotted line).

In this example, the spark was lit at -30 crank degrees to the very far left of the X-axis and we proceed to the right along the X-axis. Notice that the cylinder pressure does not immediately rise after we have a spark at -30 crank degrees. The centrally located spark must travel out a distance equal to 1/2 of the bore and down towards the rising piston top.

The air fuel mix is lit, in a cascade, like dominoes falling in a row, inside the cylinder. The spark flame must travel out first and light as many air-fuel molecules as it can.

Then the explosion occurs. This is when you see the cylinder pressure start to rise sharply at a value greater than the dotted line. This is the start of the explosion. A combustion event is an expanding thing and occurs over a specific timespan. The exploding force expands outwards from the spark plug. Notice that the cylinder pressure rises and rises as the explosion proceeds until it reaches it's highest pressure. When the cylinder pressure reaches it's peak value, the explosion is finished. The burning of the air fuel is done.

We all know that the explosion is what pushes down on top of the piston and turns the crank. The peak cylinder pressure is the highest force or push down on top of the piston to make it turn.
The important thing is WHEN does the explosion START and FINISH.

ADVANCING OR RETARDING ignition timing determines when the explosion force begins and finishes and WHEN THE CYLINDER PRESSURE BEGINS TO START RISING AND FINISHES. ADVANCING AND RETARDING TIMING ALSO DETERMINES THE HIGHEST VALUE FOR YOUR PEAK CYLINDER PRESSURE.

look at the graph again. We started the spark at -30 degrees. What would happen if we made the spark happen at -34 degrees (ADVANCE THE TIMING)?

The timespan or window for the start of the cylinder pressure to rise and finish at it's peak would shift to the left by 4 degrees. Everything would start earlier and finish earlier by 4 degrees.

What's the big deal with that?

Remember, any crank degree to the LEFT of zero on the graph means the piston is rising and squeezing on the compression stroke. The explosion is an expanding force going in the opposite direction to what the piston is going.

So more of the explosion window or range occurs while the piston is still squeezing. You are asking the piston to work twice as hard. It has to squeeze AND overcome the push down on it from the expanding force.
The cylinder pressures shoot up even higher than before.

When the peak cylinder pressure occurs is shifted to the left or earlier when you advance. The maximum push down on top of the piston occurs at a connecting rod to crankshaft angle that is not helpful to turning the crank.

What do I mean by that?:

here is a cartoon of a piston ( [O] ) and a connecting rod ( I ) looking at them from a side view.

What would happen when the maximum push occurs at

A) zero crank degrees or TDC (very top of the piston travel)

compared to

B) later on as the piston starts to drop on the power stroke), say at +15 degrees ?


Piston and Connecting Rod Side View and the Peak Cylinder Pressure is pushing down from above on top of the piston:


A) ..........[O]............. B) [O]
................I................... /

..Rod @ Zero TDC..........Rod @ + 15 degrees ATDC

You can see in A) if the maximum push or force down on top of the piston occurs at TDC, the push will just send the force straight down the piston and through to the rod, when the rod is "in-line" or vertically up and down to the piston. The maximum downward push or peak cylinder pressure happening here would NOT help turn the crankshaft to make more power. It would just wear out your rods and rod bearings faster.

In B) if we let the piston go past TDC, the rod angle is tilted. If you place the maximum downward push or cylinder pressure when the rod is tilted, the crank will turn. The piston is moving to the left and down clockwise. The peak cylinder pressure occuring here would turn the crank easier and therefore, make more power.

We usually want the peak cylinder pressure to be spread out over several crank degrees (say 10 degrees) instead of a short spike over 3-5 crank degrees because it's easier on the engine wear and we want to place this peak cylinder pressure at least at +12-15 crank degrees or later (up to a max of +20-25 crank degrees, since the rod to crank angle is better and would make more power.

If you RETARD ignition timing to -26 degrees, you start the combustion event later and finish it later by 4 degrees. The rise in cylinder pressure starts and finishes 4 degrees later. Everything is shifted to the right along the X-axis.

So there is less time for the expanding force of the combustion to work against the rising piston (piston has to work less harder) and the peak cylinder pressure occurs at a better rod to crank angle to help turn the crank and make more power (i.e within that ideal +12-25 degree range).

When you advance your timing, the peak cylinder pressures rise. In the beginning this generates a bigger push and we see more power from a harder downward push. But as you advance more and more, you increase the peak cylinder pressures so high that 1) the piston must work very hard when squeezing to overcome an earlier and earlier start to the expanding explosion. and 2) the temperatures shoot up sky high as peak pressure inside the cylinder increase more and more as you advance.

Remember very high peak cylinder pressures and temperature are what causes misfiring or worst, detonation.

Piston meltdown with detonation from advancing too far:


So you advance a little and make more power but as you go more and more advance on the timing, you will reach a point when the hp gains come at a cost: the piston, rods, and rod bearings wear out faster becasue of the added double work you ask them to do when you shift the start of the combustion event earlier and you have a higher and higher risk of detonation.

If you go too far on the advance, KABOOM!!!

This is why we advise you to advance until you hear knocking and then retard back 2 degrees for safety. You set your ignition timing at the highest advance that is safe and a balance between higher cylinder pressures, a having the peak pressure happening at a good rod to crank angle, and minimising your detonation risk. For most hondas at stock compression ratio, this start of the spark timing is around 18 degrees BTDC (Before Top Dead Center)...-18 degrees.

cheers

[Karim]

yeah gutting and bf removal, and exhaust removal at the track should free up some power.

Also don't cop an attitude my friend, we understand you want to get more replies but larry and static and such want this in the performance forum to keep it everything more organized. Makes the board a better place.
No flame intended just a friendly heads up.

Karim

[GulfCoastGTS]

Well thanks for the article!! First thing I would suggest to do would be to go look under the hood of your Celica for a distributor (I didnt actually read the article, but I'm sure thats how its done, pretty sure anyways) Once youve found the distributor...oh wait...The Celica doesnt have a distributor does it? Does this mean the timing is completely electronically and computer controlled? Why, yes! So all you need to do is jack into the ECU with a computer and break the coding and we can change timing all we like!! Great idea!!

Any other neat-o Honda mods we can try on our Celica?

[Karim]

yup gulf hit it right on the money, the celica has no distributor. The timing is controlled by the ecu. Sorry no timing guns tricks for our car.

Karim

[SlasherX]

taking out the dead body in the trunk usually gains me a good 3 tenths in the quartermile.

[oo_snoopy]

What is gutting?

[Tony01Gts]

Unloading my banana clip into a mustang lets up like 2 lbs for me!

[Chris25NJ]

not only is the timing variable and controlled by the ecu...it would be dangerous to adjust your timing in such a manner with the celica engine knowing how severe of an inteference design it has.....making these adjustments could possibly cause the piston to hit the valves.....

[Karim]

Originally posted by oo_snoopy
What is gutting?

ask mayf to show you a pic of his car if he ever gets one.

Gutting can be differnet levels to different people. To some it's just taking out the rear seats spare tire etc. To others like my friends crx we're talking sound deadening material all interior carpets no radio no ac. It's just a bunch of metal around a frame, a roll cage, with an engine inside and some gauges and a computer to run it all. Point being. Take out as much as weight as you can ppossibly live without.

Karim

[SlasherX]

Originally posted by Tony01Gts
Unloading my banana clip into a mustang lets up like 2 lbs for me!

Nice water pistol, nancy.

[fastest1]

Originally posted by TRDcelicaGT
This is more of what I want to know??????????????? I got it from an integra site.............

If you do not know how to adjust your ignition timing on your Honda,



:whogives: try the right forum and take some of that Midol.

[Johan]

Originally posted by GulfCoastGTS
Well thanks for the article!! First thing I would suggest to do would be to go look under the hood of your Celica for a distributor (I didnt actually read the article, but I'm sure thats how its done, pretty sure anyways) Once youve found the distributor...oh wait...The Celica doesnt have a distributor does it? Does this mean the timing is completely electronically and computer controlled? Why, yes! So all you need to do is jack into the ECU with a computer and break the coding and we can change timing all we like!! Great idea!!

Or you can sent the ECU to France and have it tuned......... but that will cost you some $$