294 Hp 207 Tq

[Shizuma]

Got dyno'd and posted it in the wrong forum so I thought I'd repost it here...btw, could anyone tell me where they set up they're points with the datalogit around lift? I've GOT to go in and smooth it out...

http://www.newcelica.org/photopost/data/500/dyno1.jpg


http://www.newcelica.org/photopost/data/500/dyno2.jpg

[Zero]

Nice figures, about 300wph. I'd like to have just about that much power.

Congrats Shizune. :chuckles:

[steveox]

Not sure if this is common knowledge but what is your setup?

[Shizuma]

t3/tO4e super 60 turbo
Neukin Manifold
Neukin Downpipe
Custom 3" side-exit exhaust (straight through)
Custom IC piping
Yonaka I/C
Blitz DD BOV
TIAL 44mm Wastegate
Nissan q45 TB with port matched intake manifold
RC 525cc injectors
Walbro 255lph fuel pump
Semi-custom meth system
Apexi PFC
AEM UEGO
AC oil press/oil temp/boost gauges

...that's pretty much it for the turbo system

[fraugts]

Congratz...very nice numbers.

[GTsRasta]

Nice numbers. Make sure your tune is good since it looks like you're on stock internals...

[Boosted2.0]

that dip is horrible - do you have the AF plot for it?

[Jesse IL]

that dip is horrible - do you have the AF plot for it?

Jeff's car did exactly the same thing. Its all about where you set the lift transition. What's odd is that I eliminated that dip by dropping the VVL switch from 5800 to 5400 with no other changes when we were running 17 psi and ~425 whp, but then as we increased boost/power, the dip came back and I had to drop it further to 5300.

In this case, I think he could tune the dip out completely with a 5400 cam switch and some careful VVT tuning.

[Exotic II]

t3/tO4e super 60 turbo
Neukin Manifold
Neukin Downpipe
Custom 3" side-exit exhaust (straight through)
Custom IC piping
Yonaka I/C
Blitz DD BOV
Nissan q45 TB with port matched intake manifold
RC 525cc injectors
Walbro 255lph fuel pump
Semi-custom meth system
Apexi PFC
AEM UEGO
AC oil press/oil temp/boost gauges

...that's pretty much it for the turbo system

What year Q45 did that throttle body come from?

[Boosted2.0]

that dip is horrible - do you have the AF plot for it?

Jeff's car did exactly the same thing. Its all about where you set the lift transition. What's odd is that I eliminated that dip by dropping the VVL switch from 5800 to 5400 with no other changes when we were running 17 psi and ~425 whp, but then as we increased boost/power, the dip came back and I had to drop it further to 5300.

In this case, I think he could tune the dip out completely with a 5400 cam switch and some careful VVT tuning.


Good point. Either way its good numbers - should look great with a little tuning.

[Black_TRD]

Jeff's car did exactly the same thing. Its all about where you set the lift transition. What's odd is that I eliminated that dip by dropping the VVL switch from 5800 to 5400 with no other changes when we were running 17 psi and ~425 whp, but then as we increased boost/power, the dip came back and I had to drop it further to 5300.

In this case, I think he could tune the dip out completely with a 5400 cam switch and some careful VVT tuning.

like you said thats just cuse of the vvti tuning, thats why WAR had his car tuned with variable lift point depending on boost levels with the Hydra... :wiggle:

[Shizuma]

Thanks guys...

Yea boosted, I do have the AFR plot...I'll try and get it up tonight (I'm in class right now)

Jesse- I wanted to lower the crossover point...but by the time we had gotten the AFR's and timing worked out, the IATs were getting out of hand (ambient temps were 97 degrees +, with high humdity) so we decided to call it a day...I should be going back down this weekend to lower the crossover point and add in the methanol....btw where would you suggest breakpoints on either side of the crossover?

...and about the q45 TB, I'm not sure what year it's from...it's a 90mm (84mm at the neck)

[Shizuma]

sorry Jesse, I just saw your reply in the other thread....I'll try that when I go down again....the other thing I was concerned about was the knock values: they all seemed fine (along with the AFR's) across the board, but I went out for a run last night and got a peak value of 50 on the commander....CEL light didn't even flash, and I didn't heat any audible knock, so I'm kind of confused....I have a 2001, so I know that my knock sensor is a more senstive than the 02+...any ideas? (highest AFR was 11.5)

[7th-gen-irish]

where did you get your turbo kit?

[Jesse IL]

btw where would you suggest breakpoints on either side of the crossover?
I found that the multiple breakpoints a-la Torqued was unnecessary and basically just wasted a breakpoint. I believe when I revise Smaay's map, I'll just have one point immediately to either side.

What you'll find is that the car likes the cam very advanced when it comes onto the big cam. But that creates two problems. First is that to run well, the car prefers to have a small transition between the two profiles. If you go from a big number, say 35, to a small number, say 4, across the transition its near impossible to avoid a stumble. The second problem is that if it comes up too hard on the big cam, you'll break the tires loose, which is what Smaay's car does. If you retard the cam somewhat on the big lobe right after the transition, it will come up much more gradually and you'll keep traction. You then may want to re-advance the cam for several hundred rpm until you hit the torque peak. After that you can start retarding it again.

You don't need the dyno to figure any of this out. You can do it all on the street. Unless your map is complete garbage, your should compensate for any additional airflow. Just set your lift point at 5400 and start playing around with the values on either side of it.

Oh, and as far as hot temperatures, we made Smaay's 425 whp in 105+ degree ambient temps and IAT's in the 40+ C range ;) The 545 whp run was made with temps right around 90 and IAT's in the 36 C range.

[Shizuma]

where did you get your turbo kit?


I made it




Thanks Jesse...I may try that tonight (just have to find somewhere to do it)....would you think beefing up the AFR on either side of the crossover would be a necessary safety precaution?

Yea, my IAT's were nearing 180F when we stopped...we were having to ramp up the meth on the last couple of runs in an attempt to cool down the intake charge and prevent detonation

(by the way, I'll post up my afr vs boost plot in a couple of minutes as well)

[Shizuma]

Here's the afr's

http://www.newcelica.org/photopost/data/500/dyno_3.jpg

btw Jesse, what do you think about that knock reading? While we were at the shop we were using a seperate knock sensor as well as the PFC's...

[Jesse IL]

Yea, my IAT's were nearing 180F when we stopped
Keep in mind that the PFC pulls ignition timing in response to very hot air and water temps. On Smaay's car, we found that it didn't knock anymore, but it lose power when hot due to ignition being pulled.
btw Jesse, what do you think about that knock reading? While we were at the shop we were using a seperate knock sensor as well as the PFC's...

A number of 50 means very little with no reference as to what rpm it occurred at, although 50 pretty much always means knock. You need to determine what a "no knock" curve looks like for your engine and then compare all subsequent runs against it. Smaay's car was constantly around 40 on the knock sensor regardless of ignition or fuel and had a knock curve totally different from my car. 46 on his car was definite knock.

When you run on the dyno, you should have one person in the passenger seat running the laptop at all times. What I did was have the Chart function open with three graphs going and shietloads of watch windows. The three charts showed basic enginerev, basic knock and AFR. We had watch windows for basic enginerev, basic knock, AFR, air temp, water temp, ignition advance, PIM and injector duty. After each run, while the car was cooling before making another run, we would review all this data and make any necessary changes to the map.

Your AFR's are probably also a bit fat. We were losing power when running that rich. We were trying to shoot for a 12.0-12.2 AFR for best safe power.

[steveox]

Do you have any pics of the side exit exhaust? I'm curious to see what it looks like...

[Shizuma]

Keep in mind that the PFC pulls ignition timing in response to very hot air and water temps. On Smaay's car, we found that it didn't knock anymore, but it lose power when hot due to ignition being pulled.

A number of 50 means very little with no reference as to what rpm it occurred at, although 50 pretty much always means knock. You need to determine what a "no knock" curve looks like for your engine and then compare all subsequent runs against it. Smaay's car was constantly around 40 on the knock sensor regardless of ignition or fuel and had a knock curve totally different from my car. 46 on his car was definite knock.

When you run on the dyno, you should have one person in the passenger seat running the laptop at all times. What I did was have the Chart function open with three graphs going and shietloads of watch windows. The three charts showed basic enginerev, basic knock and AFR. We had watch windows for basic enginerev, basic knock, AFR, air temp, water temp, ignition advance, PIM and injector duty. After each run, while the car was cooling before making another run, we would review all this data and make any necessary changes to the map.

Your AFR's are probably also a bit fat. We were losing power when running that rich. We were trying to shoot for a 12.0-12.2 AFR for best safe power.


Yea, we could pretty much tell it was starting to pull timing when we started to get hot, so we decided to go ahead and call it a day

...I did read your sticky on determining the knock curve, and I realized about 10 minutes after I posted that I had given you a completley arbitrary value (I wish I had read the damn sticky before I went)...so I'll definetly do that when I go back...as per the VVT settings, I really can't do anything tonight (rain) so I guess I'll just go out and try and find a nice straight road or something

...I know the AFR's are a bit high as well...in all actuality I wanted to play conservative until I had a chance to mess with the methanol injection. The nozzle I have now is just too goddamn big and I don't want to have to lean the AFR out in order to burn it (in case I get a clogged nozzle or something).

BTW, what did Smaay's AFR's and knock values (now that I know his def. was 46) look like at partial throttle under boost?

[Shizuma]

Do you have any pics of the side exit exhaust? I'm curious to see what it looks like...


http://photos-664.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v81/140/114/42708818/n42708818_31011664_2217.jpg

That's the only pic I have of it....there's a heat-shield around it now (my sideskirt kept melting) and my rims are black...but other than that, that's what it looks like....it's straight-through, 1 mandrel bend, no cat, no muffler :gap:

[Jesse IL]

...I did read your sticky on determining the knock curve, and I realized about 10 minutes after I posted that I had given you a completley arbitrary value (I wish I had read the damn sticky before I went)...so I'll definetly do that when I go back
No no...you need to do that BEFORE you go to the dyno.

[Shizuma]

No no...you need to do that BEFORE you go to the dyno.


fair enough...I it shouldn't be that hard to do

[Jesse IL]

You need to make a knock curve like I did in Excel. Then when you're at the dyno, you can compare runs against it. Its best to let the car cool for several minutes between runs, which gives you time to review all your previous run data and make changes.

[Boosted2.0]

Looks like if you tune out that rich dip you might get a bunch of your power back between the peaks.

[Shizuma]

You need to make a knock curve like I did in Excel. Then when you're at the dyno, you can compare runs against it. Its best to let the car cool for several minutes between runs, which gives you time to review all your previous run data and make changes.


I'll do that...there's a place near here that sells 100 octane fuel, so I guess I'll get some and retard the timing and make a dozen or so runs...

Looks like if you tune out that rich dip you might get a bunch of your power back between the peaks.


That's what I'm hoping for :gap:

[Hetts]

is that your car that was posted? that looks like an auto, but you said you run a PFC. kinda cornfused. BTW, nice numbers, glad to see you got your problems sorted out

[RevvinKevin]

http://photos-664.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v81/140/114/42708818/n42708818_31011664_2217.jpg

That's the only pic I have of it....there's a heat-shield around it now (my sideskirt kept melting) and my rims are black...but other than that, that's what it looks like....it's straight-through, 1 mandrel bend, no cat, no muffler :gap:


oo wow, any sound clips??

[Shizuma]

is that your car that was posted? that looks like an auto, but you said you run a PFC. kinda cornfused. BTW, nice numbers, glad to see you got your problems sorted out


Huh-uh, it's a manual


oo wow, any sound clips??


I've got some on my phone...I'll try and upload them

[mr johnson]

psi?

[Shizuma]

about 10.5 psi