Let's try this again....is a 75 shot safe for the GT-S?

[ArchangelX]

Alright, after my little incident tonight...I'm really heavily thinking about bumping up to a 75 shot on my Celica.

I know it might be a little head strong, but everything I've read, and all the searching and researching that I've done has led me to believe that a 60 to 75 shot MIGHT be perfectly safe. I did a search tonight on the forums, and looked at all of the discussion on the nitrous, but there really wasn't that much actual discussion on what's good to use. There were a few discussions (mostly by larryd), but not enough to really set it in stone.

Case in point, NX states in their faq that they do not recommend running more than 25hp ( EDITED FOR STUPIDITY) more per cylinder while using the nitrous system. That equates to about a 100 shot (easy math :D ) for our cars...so if we're only pushing a 75...then we're doing 18.75 per cylinder...which is kinda cutting it close, but is less than the recommendation. If we're only running 60, then it's about 15 hp per cylinder...which is well below their suggested limit.

I think that all of this also totally depends on how much you use the system...and for what engine we're talking about.

To keep it simple for the time at hand, I'm talking about a 2ZZGE, since that's what I have.

We all know that the GT has lower compression, and that it can reliably take a 75 shot without any known problems so far...but how about the GT-S.

Does our compression really limit us from using a 75 shot?

In all intents and purposes, I will have my car dyno tuned again if I move up to a 75 shot...so I won't exactly just be switching pills for the helluva it.

I think that right now, the nitrous setup is really the only low-cost, reliably safe setup and solution for serious power for the GT-S.

I just don't have the cash yet to do a turbo, nor the time to have it ripped apart for months.

So what do you think guys, let's really get to the bone on this one...I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to push the limits on their car. :D

[nyoneway]

1. Can your stock injectors/fuel pump provide enough fuel for a 75 shot consistently? Running much nitros will cause you to go lean.

2. How does 20hp per cylinder = to 100 shot. Easy math? Where did you goto school?

3. High compression does not destroy engines. Pinging does. High compression = heat = inconsistent timing = ping (knock).

4. NX's recommendation is for regular cars and not a high performance and compression engines like the GT-S. Each car is different, and you can't generalize.

Let us know how it goes. I hope you know what you are doing.

[ArchangelX]

LOL..

Okay...let me change some things..I was drunk at the time of the post....heh...party.

The post is meant to bring about a serious discussion about the pros and cons of using a higher shot, and to try and answer what is necessary to do so.

To answer your questions...

1. Currently, I'm using an S-AFC to richen the fuel mixture during nitrous use. As to wheither the stock injectors and fuel pump can reliably handle a 75 shot is one of the questions we'll have to find the answers to.

I'm not aware of how much HP our fuel pump can run with reliably and safely... I do know that a very similar car's, the Type R, factory pump is rated at 110 lph @ 0 psi. To be honest, I don't even know what type of fuel pump we have, and who the manufacturer is. If it's similar, we'll definetly have to upgrade the fuel pump, if we want to use the nitrous reliably.

As for the stock injectors, welps...normal "accepted" duty cycle use shouldn't exceed 85%. If we go beyond this, shouldn't we upgrade the injectors also? Does anyone know the formula used to calculate the max hp on the stock injectors? I remember reading some type of equation, somewhere about something like that...but as shown, I'm not a math whiz.

2. I'm a dumbass, and I sucked at math in highschool. :D

3. I never said that high compression was the root of all evil. I simply stated that GT's are able to do nitrous (and other forms of FI) more reliably BECAUSE they have a lower compression. And to be honest, if you look at your formula, high compression is definetly a factor in the problem, heheh.

Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to sufferring. I sense much fear in you.... :eek:

4. What's the difference between a regular car and our car? NX didn't apply any such statement such as "regular" cars or high compression engines. Our compression ratio is 11:5:1. The GS-R has only a slightly lower compression ratio than ours does (10:4:1) and the Type R is very similar. (11:0:1). I've seen a few GS-Rs that are running 100 shots, and two Type Rs down in Sac that were running 75 consistently.

I do agree that we cannot make generalized statements, but it's not exactly like we've got this huge test bed of data for us to rely on.

And yes...I hope I know what I'm doing too. That's why I'm asking you guys for help in this discussion.

[ToYo Gt-S 2oo1]

Hey i have a 75 shot NX on mine, i drilled out the fuel jet some to make sure im getting plenty of fuel in it, the only problem i have is missing gears, my sincro is messin up again in 2nd so i kinda take it easy trhough my gears, on my A/F gauge its always green staying good an rich, so i would say yea its safe, i will try to get some mpegs of mine running on a 75 shot so that u all can hear it an see what it sounds like, the big problem other than the gears is hooking, i dont have drag radials so i used my stockies an droped the pressure to like 16 psi went through the water box to try to get it to hook , it worked better than jus going around it that pass because it didnt spin to bad but i ****in missed second gear an still ran a 14.04.

[ToyoGT]

Originally posted by nyoneway

2. How does 20hp per cylinder = to 100 shot. Easy math? Where did you goto school?


Where did you learn how to read? He said 25 per cylinder :D Just messin' around of course :)

[ToyoGT]

Someone should designate themself as the forum "guinea pig" and try this out and let us know what happens. Yeah, yeah, that should work :D

[nyoneway]

Originally posted by ToyoGT



Where did you learn how to read? He said 25 per cylinder :D Just messin' around of course :)

He edited his post. Originally it says 20.

[komar]

I'll be running a 75 shot on a re-built bottom end. I should have the car back soon as the note under my sn says 15 weeks and counting.

I know a guy that ran a 75 shot on a GT and blew up his 1zz. He used it often.

LarryD has posted about convos he's had with Nitrous ppl, and that a 75 on stock internal GT-S is not too good. I took it apon my self to rebuild my bottom end with minor head work. The only problem I see for runnig the 75 shot is the fuel like stated earier. I will strap the car on a dyno, and have it tuned to be sure it isn't running too lean. My S-AFC will be used for minor corrections in fuel map, but the injectors and pump might not have enough to keep up with the 75 shot.

Another problem is the igntion timming...it is electronic, no way for us to retard manually. Too adavnced is bad...can it keep up??? no one knows.

I have to breakin engine and then wait a few thousand miles for the Nitro to be re-installed...so it is gonna be about 3 to 3.5 weeks before I even start to drive hard then a few more before i use the Nitrous. I wish I could Fast-N-Furiuos the car (build it then go race a Ferrari the first time I start it), but I want it to run for a few years.

Kareem

[ToyoGT]

Originally posted by nyoneway


He edited his post. Originally it says 20.

Ok cool. My bad. Sorry :D

[ArchangelX]

Duh... :evil:

[CelicaLicious]

i'd say 75 is pushin it, maybe if you lowered your timing to like 6 degrees, but then that would suck foir everyday driving..

[cruzerz545]

1. Yes, because you can use larger fuel jets from the NX kit. Dont worry about the fuel system in the car.

2. its not 20hp its 25.

3. so retard the ping

4. ummm ok dokey.



Originally posted by nyoneway
1. Can your stock injectors/fuel pump provide enough fuel for a 75 shot consistently? Running much nitros will cause you to go lean.

2. How does 20hp per cylinder = to 100 shot. Easy math? Where did you goto school?

3. High compression does not destroy engines. Pinging does. High compression = heat = inconsistent timing = ping (knock).

4. NX's recommendation is for regular cars and not a high performance and compression engines like the GT-S. Each car is different, and you can't generalize.

Let us know how it goes. I hope you know what you are doing.

[Quick_GT-S]

You don't have to jump from 50 to 75hp, you can run any hp increase you want. If the nitrous manufacturer gives you the jet sizes for 50 and 75, do the math and you can buy a jet for whatever shot you want. If you are running with NX, keep in mind that they measure to the wheels and everyone else measures at the crank. So a NX kits 50 shot is 60+hp at the crank.

If your worried about going lean, just put in a larger jet on the fuel side. A wide band oxygen sensor is the best way to tell. If you look at your spark plugs after a 1/4 mile run, you should have an idea of you mixture.

[ArchangelX]

I've already got a GReddy A/F quage with an oxygen sensor....it tells me just fine weither I'm running rich or lean already...

I think you guys are missing the point of this thread...n/m.

[larryd]

mind you one other thing... I got my info from NOStech when I installed my kit which was a NOS kit.. they said do NOT go over a 50 shot, I was told this over and over again by many different techs there at NOS.. will your car handle 75 shot, yea Im sure it will, but how soon do you want to rebuild it? thats the question to ask yourself..

BTW, something else to take into thought.. NOS kits rate hp at the flywheel, Nx kits rate hp at the wheels, so your 50shot NX kit is actually a 60 shot NOS kit, and 75nx kit your looking at is more like 90shot NOS.. thats almost doubling what they say is the limit..

btw someone suggested a forum guinea pig, mind you, i was the site guinea pig for over 2 years I tested out part after part and you see where that got me..

[Iwannagofast]

Well here is my .02. I am running a 75 shot nx kit and have gone through about 10 bottles in a very short amount of time. I have an auto so when it trys to shift into second it smacks the rev. limiter while under the juice(no window switch). have pulled the plugs many of times and have not seen any sign of bad things. when under the 75 shot my fuel pressure gauge says I am only dropping 2 psi. I wouldn't try a 75 shot with NOS because I have heard to many bad storys about there kits. I think a 75 shot on a GTS is safe. I just use some octane booster all the time. I am thinking about going to a 100 shot for the hell of it to see if it actually will work if not it is just an excuse to make it faster. I also have a friend(my NX tech and dealer) who has a stock LT1 engine in his T/A and they say 150 is the max. Last summer he went with a 250 shot and had no problems. He tore the motor apart to port the heads and put a cam in a few weeks ago and there was no damage. I guess it comes down to taking the risk of blowing you motor.

[larryd]

have u done a compression test lately out of curiosity?? and just becuase there are no signs of anything wrong right now, it only takes one time for the engine to detonate and eat itself apart

[Iwannagofast]

actually just for the hell of it I will check that this weekend. What should it be?

[zooq]

a 75 shot,direct port , is fine just use some race gas with it.

[larryd]

your compression should be 201+ in all 4 cylinders if I recall