Max Woofer Output - Rear Hatch Glass

[Lacfiremx02]

Someone told me it wasn't a good idea to put woofers in my celica beacuse the back glass will blow out very easily? What would you recommend as the max ammount of watts i can put out before blowing my rear glass out?

[v3bahumut]

Eleventy billion.......

[CALICELI]

i recommend telling whoever told you that, that they're retarded.

[Lacfiremx02]

Okay sweet so I got (2) Rockford Fosgate Punch XLC 12" Subwoofers and the put out 600 Watts RMS/1200 Watts Peak. I should be fine with those then?

[UBCelicaGT2k]

your subs dont put out 600 RMS/1200 peak, they are able to accept that much power from an amplifier. what kind of wattage does your amp push??

[slvrcelicagt00]

your subs dont put out 600 RMS/1200 peak, they are able to accept that much power from an amplifier.
yea man thats what your amp does. nice choice going with RF. what series are they? i haven't heard of them.... well i've got a 12 RF T2 handling 1100W rms and all it does is give the people in the car a sweet massage, for free. if u want it to sound its best make sure u have a custom box, preferably out of mdf, built and based off of the Power boxes drafted by RF on their site.

[Lacfiremx02]

Well my friend bought them for me from someone idk who but they are in this huge truck box already.. Its almost like 5 feet wide but do you think its possible to take that box and and cut it down to size to make it fix nice in the back of my celica?

[slvrcelicagt00]

you cant just cut it down to size...spend the extra money for a new box...if u dont care how it sounds get a prefab'd box, but i dont see where u got ur numbers for power handling, ive only seen the rating at 200 wrms, but props on a old school rf sub

[SpikedCola]

Probably ported or bandpass then. Look up the specs for the subs, the sealed volume should be around 1 cu.ft (if you decide to go sealed). Just build a couple 12"x12"x12" inside-diameter boxes (if you want square ones) and pop the subs in. Or you could forget about boxes altogether and go fiberglass.

[slvrcelicagt00]

yea fiberglass but be ready to pay alot more for looks and less for sound quality. it all depends on what you like.

[Lacfiremx02]

What kind of amp would you recommend.. I really don't know anything about this stuff.. But i kno there are like mono and multi channel.. ? So i guess what would amp would you recommend?

[SpikedCola]

Multi-channel amps are more meant for front & rear speakers, since they will usually put out 50-200w per channel. NORMALLY people use two monoblock amps, one per sub, but its also common to use one bigger monoblock amp to power both subs at the same time.

[slvrcelicagt00]

its the power output at all that seperates the amps, the filtering circuits on 4 channel amps cut out lower notes(<100hz), and the mono block will block the higher frequencies(~2-300hz) which is the high and low pass filters. 2 channel amps normally will allow you to select the high or low pass. rockford makes good amps

[DailyGTDriver]

yea fiberglass but be ready to pay alot more for looks and less for sound quality. it all depends on what you like.

OR you could simply go outside, cut some templates, and make your very own fiberglass enclosures to any spec and shape you want. =P We are working on putting two Memphis M Class 10's and an 1100 watt Memphis class D monoblock in my buddies Miata... Sound insulation FTW! I'm personally not huge on putting that much bass in a roadster, I would prefer to lighten it out and drive the piss out of it, but thats just me. Besides, I like building things, lol.

[slvrcelicagt00]

but like i said, the sound quality is going to be like ass because its not going to be a tuned enclosure

[SpikedCola]

How do you figure. As long as it has the correct internal volume, it will sound equally as good as a wooden or MDF box of the same volume. If its just an enclosure, sure, it wont sound as good. But if its done professionally in a way that is meant for the sub, the material makes no difference.

[drpdmazda]

How do you figure. As long as it has the correct internal volume, it will sound equally as good as a wooden or MDF box of the same volume. If its just an enclosure, sure, it wont sound as good. But if its done professionally in a way that is meant for the sub, the material makes no difference.

judging from the questions the poster is asking i highly doubt he is anywhere near ready to build a fiberglass enclosure. and fiberglass will def. look nicer but wont hit as hard or as clean as a well made mdf box, get yourself a pre fab box from your local audio shop and you should be fine. this write up may help you a little with what type of box to chose:

ported ( vented ) vs sealed

I prefer a VENTED box. Why?

1) Free output. Generally 2-5db louder. How can that ever be bad?

2) Lower useable frequency output. A vented box is typically louder between 25 and 45hz than a sealed box. This makes it sound like it 'plays lower' and with very little information below 25hz, I'm willing to make that trade. Look at the F3 point of a sealed and a vented box for the same driver. The F3 point is where the response of the box is down 3db from the reference level. The lower the F3 the 'deeper' the box will generally sound.
Sealed boxes hover in the high 30s to low 50s range, in general. Vented boxes often run high 20s to high 30s.

3) Flexibility. Oh you want deeeeep bass all week and a little SPL comp on the weekend? No problem. Run a 30hz vent all week and swap it for a 55hz vent for the show.

4) Power Handling. Vented boxes generally handle more power than sealed ones. The exception is at very low frequencies below tuning but this is an easy workaround.

Those are the 4 major reasons. The sealed camp wins in respect to enclosure size - but this to me is a minor concession and in more than a few instances one can go with a smaller sub or fewer subs and go vented and have the same performance as a larger or more sealed woofers. The topic of 'group delay' comes in as well. Most people don't understand it and figure 'more is worse'. Technically it is but most boxes, sealed or vented, are not a problem.

I will give sealed enclosures one for sure advantage: If you have some random woofer or like to change woofers a lot without changing boxes, get a sealed box. They are way way more forgiving this way.
__________________

[slvrcelicagt00]

its all about the tuning ...if you go fiberglass its just going to be a sealed enclosure, and i think mdf is much less vibrant when you are really handling higher power.

[DailyGTDriver]

How do you figure. As long as it has the correct internal volume, it will sound equally as good as a wooden or MDF box of the same volume. If its just an enclosure, sure, it wont sound as good. But if its done professionally in a way that is meant for the sub, the material makes no difference.

Thanks for the back-up Spike, always welcome.

judging from the questions the poster is asking i highly doubt he is anywhere near ready to build a fiberglass enclosure. and fiberglass will def. look nicer but wont hit as hard or as clean as a well made mdf box, get yourself a pre fab box from your local audio shop and you should be fine.

I saved us the trouble of having to read the write-up twice (informative as it is) but I have to agree with mazda here as well. If you believe that you can blow your rear hatch glass with a system within reach of a normal car enthusiast (which usually isn't too much), you may not be quite up to building and tuning your own enclosure. However, the only real way to learn is to look up some fiberglassing write-ups, go blow some cash on materials, roll up your sleeves and have at it. Best way to learn, and is very rewarding. If you wish to build something that will be difficult to measure volume wise, finish sealing the inside of your box and measure your volume however you can. Then add or remove volume as necessary. I just enjoy spending my weekends working on stuff like that, but some people would just prefer to pay the cash and have it done professionally, or just buy prefabbed boxes. There is nothing wrong with any of these ways, its all about how much you want to work and spend. Good luck either way though.

[drpdmazda]

i agree with you on that point as well, there is nothing more rewarding than bieng able to say " i built that " so yeah for as cheap as it is to buy some stuff to learn to fiberglass go for it, just wear gloves and do it in a well ventilated area. its time consuming but if you have no patience, i hope you have deep pockets lol


good luck no matter what you decide to do

[SpikedCola]

Mazda, can you explain the concept of swapping ports? Ive decided to go ported instead of sealed to gain +3dB`s, and with BassBox, I can tune my port down to 20Hz, but Id like something around that 50Hz mark for SPL, should I want to. Im having some custom fiberglass done from a very skilled guy, but how would you mount the port, and have it removeable? Have any pictures of this?

[slvrcelicagt00]

20 hz? that is insanely low, most songs dont have less than 30 or so, and u will make the frequencies over 35hz be attenuated the farther from 20hz. if you tune it to 30-32 hz you would definately be satisfied. have you even heard a well setup system hitting at 20hz? if a skilled guy is doing the work why doesn't he know about the removable ports? its not a new idea.... and being good with fiberglass is different than being a good system installer.

[drpdmazda]

20 hz? that is insanely low, most songs dont have less than 30 or so, and u will make the frequencies over 35hz be attenuated the farther from 20hz. if you tune it to 30-32 hz you would definately be satisfied. have you even heard a well setup system hitting at 20hz? if a skilled guy is doing the work why doesn't he know about the removable ports? its not a new idea.... and being good with fiberglass is different than being a good system installer.


hopefully he is just playing dumb and hoping i will answer him wrong so he can feel that he is the king of the audio world, or at least thats what i gather from his posts. he has an opinion on everything and seems to think its always only going to work his way and doesnt like to be challenged, kind of like the kid in dodge ball that used to get picked last and it just so happened he brought the ball so out of spite he takes his ball and goes home

[SpikedCola]

I asked a simple question about a topic you posted. Why cant you give me a straight answer. I hit the Optimum button in BassBox (yes, the T/S parameters for my sub are there) and it gave me 21Hz, X-Bass gives me 20Hz. I havent even passed the idea of a ported box over the fiberglass guy, Ive just decided on it recently. Ive never heard of the removeable port thing, so I asked.

Honestly, whats the big deal?

I was under the impression that the lower the F3 point, the more full sounding the box will sound. Ive never done a ported box so I dont know exactly what Im aiming for. If I knew it would be this much trouble to ask a few questions, I wont even bother.

[slvrcelicagt00]

i was just giving my suggestion, he doesn't seem like he knows exactly what he is getting into and no i don't think i'm some audio god. and with his setup its not even worth doing a build for besides doing a quality made box.

[SpikedCola]

I bought JL to sound good, not to rattle windows. Of course I have opinions on things; who doesnt? Mazda, you just posted your opinion on how ported > sealed. Surely that is the same as me saying, oh, a plastic-covered terminal will be safer in the event of a terminal coming loose, vs. a stock terminal because _____.

I never claimed I was God. I never said I know everything. Thats not my believed understanding of
extraordinarie. To me, it means something along the lines of uncommon or above average. If I knew everything, why would I be asking for help?


God
- A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.


Extraordinaire
- Uncommon; excellent; outstanding

[slvrcelicagt00]

i thought mazda was talking about me thinking im the sh**.... ? about your setup,my bad. i was thinking of the original guy of this thread. For the w6, its a clean and good sub.

[drpdmazda]

jl is def. nice equipment with good sound quality, but they also carry a pretty hefty price tag. you can ask 10 different people what they think is the "best" and you will most likely get 10 different answers. im not going to get into a pissing match with you cola, i told you that before. i could care less what your questions are and what you are trying to prove, i have seen some of your questions in your posts, and seen some pics of your installs and know for sure that i do not need to answer to you. anyone can read a lot and type in some numbers to get a box dimension, but when you are past the point of installing amps with bungee cords we can talk.

[drpdmazda]

i thought mazda was talking about me thinking im the sh**.... ? about your setup,my bad. i was thinking of the original guy of this thread. For the w6, its a clean and good sub.

no no i was never talking to you other than when i agreed with you, but i guess the way i posted my reply it may have seemed that way, sorry about that. i do for sure know what i am getting myself into and am far from worried about comparing knowledge with this dude

[slvrcelicagt00]

FI , which broke away from RE, has great subs that can handle real well and are much cheaper than the jl and rf competition lines.

[SpikedCola]

but when you are past the point of installing amps with bungee cords we can talk.That was a temporary setup, I believe it even said that in the thread. In the same thread I believe there were also pictures of how I mounted the amp, with the bar underneath the carpet, and the amp bolted into the bar. I did the same thing with a black, wedge-shaped box. There was a bar that ran from the left bolt, standing at the back of the car looking down into the hatch, all the way to the child seat anchor hook, and using two L brackets (all hidden under the carpet, except where the Ls stuck up) they were mounted to the sub box. Its nothing special, but I built it and I was/am proud of it. Just makes me want to have taken pictures before I sold it. But what would that matter. Im sure since there would be some minor flaw in it you`d have at that too. :shrugs: ohwell.

[wtcnbrwndo4u]

Lacfiremx, did you get your question answered? Or do you still have one?

Personally, I've been recently amazed by Kicker's quality (I never honestly heard one before two weeks ago). Going with any of their ZX line of amplifiers is a decision that you won't regret. Even going with the SX line will suit you fine.

I'd probably recommend one of the 600.1/650.1 amps for you. If you really want more power, use one of the 1000.1 amps.

SX650.1
http://cgi.ebay.com/KICKER-SX650-1-MONO-AMP-SX-DIGITAL-DSP-NEW-06-650-WATTS_W0QQitemZ250162467473QQihZ015QQcategoryZ6457 0QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

ZX1000.1
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-KICKER-06-ZX1000-1-1000w-RMS-MONO-CAR-AMPLIFIER-AMP_W0QQitemZ270161258129QQihZ017QQcategoryZ64570Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

$299 and $349 respectively w/o shipping.

Good amps cost a lot of money... don't cheap out.

[drpdmazda]

Lacfiremx, did you get your question answered? Or do you still have one?

Personally, I've been recently amazed by Kicker's quality (I never honestly heard one before two weeks ago). Going with any of their ZX line of amplifiers is a decision that you won't regret. Even going with the SX line will suit you fine.

I'd probably recommend one of the 600.1/650.1 amps for you. If you really want more power, use one of the 1000.1 amps.

SX650.1
http://cgi.ebay.com/KICKER-SX650-1-MONO-AMP-SX-DIGITAL-DSP-NEW-06-650-WATTS_W0QQitemZ250162467473QQihZ015QQcategoryZ6457 0QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

ZX1000.1
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-KICKER-06-ZX1000-1-1000w-RMS-MONO-CAR-AMPLIFIER-AMP_W0QQitemZ270161258129QQihZ017QQcategoryZ64570Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

$299 and $349 respectively w/o shipping.

Good amps cost a lot of money... don't cheap out.

very good advice, kicker has been coming out with some pretty good stuff lately and they arent off thecharts for pricing either

[wtcnbrwndo4u]

very good advice, kicker has been coming out with some pretty good stuff lately and they arent off thecharts for pricing either
Yup, and the better thing for me, I get pretty good vendor accommodations from Kicker from work (Circuit City). I can get the ZX1000.1 for $240. Hehe, that's $100+ off of eBay prices.

[drpdmazda]

Yup, and the better thing for me, I get pretty good vendor accommodations from Kicker from work (Circuit City). I can get the ZX1000.1 for $240. Hehe, that's $100+ off of eBay prices.


ahh i do miss those days of working at circuit city, but back then we didnt have kicker and eclipse, the best thing going when i worked there was alpine and kenwood excellon. i have been thinking about going back part time as an installer just to get the discounts

[wtcnbrwndo4u]

ahh i do miss those days of working at circuit city, but back then we didnt have kicker and eclipse, the best thing going when i worked there was alpine and kenwood excellon. i have been thinking about going back part time as an installer just to get the discounts
Yeah, all we have is Eclipse, Kicker, MTX, and Polk. We have those POS Sonys still and Jensens.

Kenwood Excellon is still pretty damn good though. But man, when you can get a Solobaric L7 12" for $135, that's what you call a deal.

Eclipse has the nice head units though... :)

I wish I could work in install. They won't let me because I'm not 18 yet (liability).