2.0 vvtl-I = 215 hp

[808dRaStIkgts]

aite whut can i say,

ummm type-R meet the 2.0 vvtl-I....

2.0 vvtl-I=215 hp sounds interesting but cross ur fingers people

This is only a >>>>>RUMOR!!!

[808dRaStIkgts]

oppppps check dis out 2

hhtp://pages.sbcglobal.net/celica/rumors.htm#engine

like i said cross ur fingers.

[808dRaStIkgts]

**** my bad!!

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/celica/rumors.htm#engine

[lafaygts]

Nice info. Sounds like a good swap as long as it is light. Dont want to screw up the ballance of the celica

[Keyshawn]

The 2.0 liter K20A engine in the Integra/RSX Type R that is already sold in Japan makes 220+ hp. And it's not just a rumor.

[M SPEC]

Trial Japan 3ZZ stroker kit is already available to increase your 2ZZ-GE capacity to 2.0 litres and is rated at 210PS ablet at 13.7:1 Compression from memory (old news).

I can't see Toyota wasting resources swapping engines for the Celica mid-way through its' product lifecycle.

Jason

[t2000gts]

that's not a VVTL-i engine, that's a VVT-i engine with VVT-i on both intake/exhaust cams.

i don't think a 2.0l would be a great idea for the celica chassis too heavy, would need more than 20hp to make up for the weight...maybe another generation of the 2ZZ with VVTL-i on both intake/exhaust cams to get 200 or maybe more hp without a problem.

depends on how light they can get such an engine if they wanted a 2.0l though.

[gts24]

so you say it's vvt-i , not lift enhanced. The article says vvtl-i, to combat the integra....

So which is it?

[Xracer729]

2.0L+VVTl-i(hopefully)+celica=RSX asswoopin:chuckles:

[Blue Bomber]

It's probably just an upgraded 3S-GE engine, like the way Honda enhanced the Type R's engine. Toyota used the original 2.0L 3S-GE Dual VVT-i engine in the Japanese Altezza (IS200 in other countries). Im not sure exactly how much power it put out, but it was at least 200hp.

[Griffin]

Originally posted by t2000gts
that's not a VVTL-i engine, that's a VVT-i engine with VVT-i on both intake/exhaust cams.

i don't think a 2.0l would be a great idea for the celica chassis too heavy, would need more than 20hp to make up for the weight...maybe another generation of the 2ZZ with VVTL-i on both intake/exhaust cams to get 200 or maybe more hp without a problem.

depends on how light they can get such an engine if they wanted a 2.0l though.

FYI
Exhaust cam already has variable lift, just not variable timing.

Griffin

[ArchangelX]

2.0L+VVTl-i(hopefully)+celica=RSX asswoopin
Wha? I'm already whoopin' RSX...what the heck is wrong with you? :thumbup:

[TRD7MGE]

how much more heavier can .2 liters be?!?!

[MarkyMark]

OMG....toyota 4000gt???

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/celica1/news/4000gt.jpg

I hope they make it

[steckelberg]

I'm all for bigger(more HP) engine swaps. But wouldn't the price of a swap out weigh +20 hp? Dosen't our engine rated @ 200hp in japan? Their fuel I think...

[Ntence99]

Originally posted by ArchangelX

Wha? I'm already whoopin' RSX...what the heck is wrong with you? :thumbup: :werd: I hear ya!!! I havnt got beat by one......YET!!

[Chui]

I read that/typed this back in late 2000. I for one belive it. Whether or not it will be placed into the Celica I dunno. Since the RSX is not as focused as I'd like to see it [actually not true at all] there is little impetus to bring her over in the Celica. If the ITR comes waltzin' over then it just may make it's debut while the 2ZZ-GE gets slipped into the engine bay of the MR-S which is what I was told by some TRD Marketing types a couple of years ago at the Detroit Grand Prix...

[BRAK]

I wouldnt be supprised to see Toyota come up with a new back to the drawing board celica. With the money that is being made after the F&F came out and the new hype with the sport compact car world, i wouldnt be suprised to see the next celica to have turbo and AWD! Or even a Pure N/A Screeming machine like a more higher tunned engine like the article said a 215hp output.:wiggle: :burnout:

[Ntence99]

and when they do..i will be trading my car in

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by ArchangelX

Wha? I'm already whoopin' RSX...what the heck is wrong with you? :thumbup:
Notice that didn't happen until after you installed N20?

[Chui]

Yakko, do you still have your ITR? If so are you interested in a JDM OEM steering wheel? It's a MOMO. Got a source in Australia. New Zealand would be better yet, but I've never visited... E-mail me: ITRELISE@aol.com and/or kreed2@ford.com

As for the "burgeoning" auto market in the US. Please check out the price of gold... There are also reports of homeless in Tokyo... The US is planning invasion of Iraq at summer's end or early Fall... I don't think the market will support another "Type R" vehicle in this price segment as we don't have the disposable income of, say, Ferrari, BMW, Porsche and Corvette purchasers. It's too bad, too.

[gts24]

Originally posted by yakkosmurf

Notice that didn't happen until after you installed N20?

There's plenty of others that dont' need that to make it happen. We all know it's a "drivers race" we dont' need this thread to turn into one of those wars again. :rolleyes:

[ArchangelX]

Er....no.

I don't believe I ever said that....

I never used N20 on an RSX-S. Didn't even have to flick the switch.

I'll race one right now without the slightest bit of hesitation...without N20

[iNteGraz92]

dude, that is a HOME MADE web page, how can u even believe it?

[Raymund]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ArchangelX

Wha? I'm already whoopin' RSX...what the heck is wrong with you?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by yakkosmurf

Notice that didn't happen until after you installed N20?

notice how you always pop out of no where evertime a celica owner claims to have whooped a honda?

[BRAK]

Let them talk there smack ...... CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG ... all import cars hold hands around the world.:wiggle: :wiggle: :wiggle: :wiggle: :wiggle: :wiggle: :wave:

[cruzerz545]

2.2 = 223hp


Originally posted by 808dRaStIkgts
aite whut can i say,

ummm type-R meet the 2.0 vvtl-I....

2.0 vvtl-I=215 hp sounds interesting but cross ur fingers people

This is only a >>>>>RUMOR!!!

[Bobbeh]

Originally posted by Blue Bomber
It's probably just an upgraded 3S-GE engine, like the way Honda enhanced the Type R's engine. Toyota used the original 2.0L 3S-GE Dual VVT-i engine in the Japanese Altezza (IS200 in other countries). Im not sure exactly how much power it put out, but it was at least 200hp.

Yeah that was a 2.0 vvti engine producing 210bhp.

[VZV21]

Originally posted by Bobbeh


Yeah that was a 2.0 vvti engine producing 210bhp.

210 for 6-speed manual
200 for automatic

[ArchangelX]

Either way, back on topic...

How feasible would a engine swap be for us? I mean...adding something like that engine in our cars, WOULD change it's performance attributes in alotta ways?

Is this feasible? (I know, I know, anything is feasible if you got the moolah.)

[djm221]

What's even nicer about that BEAMS engine is that is has some nice torque fora 2.0l I think it might peak at 161 lb-ft, although I may be wrong on that; I know it is at least in the 150's.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by Raymund
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ArchangelX

Wha? I'm already whoopin' RSX...what the heck is wrong with you?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



notice how you always pop out of no where evertime a celica owner claims to have whooped a honda?
I would have made the same comment to an RSX guy about beating a Celica that bad. I've done it numerous times on the RSX board. Just ask the people that visit there too. I just keeping people straight about exaggerating their stories.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by gts24


There's plenty of others that dont' need that to make it happen. We all know it's a "drivers race" we dont' need this thread to turn into one of those wars again. :rolleyes:
It is a driver's race. N20 doesn't count. That was my point.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by Chui
Yakko, do you still have your ITR? If so are you interested in a JDM OEM steering wheel? It's a MOMO. Got a source in Australia. New Zealand would be better yet, but I've never visited... E-mail me: ITRELISE@aol.com and/or kreed2@ford.com


Yes, I still have the ITR. I'll let you know. I would be interested, but right now I've got other things I have to spend money on. I'll email you.

[ArchangelX]

Again, did I ever make any mention of nitrous? Hell..If I didn't have it in my sig, it wouldn't have even been brought up...

It's a drivers race, yes...but the Celica has a definite advantage from my own personal experiences...stock to stock, or with similar mods.

It'll outhandle, outsprint, and has better brakes....it's a drivers race, alright....

[scapamouche]

Originally posted by TRD7MGE
how much more heavier can .2 liters be?!?!

Look in technical discussions for the papers that were posted about the design of the 1zz and 2zz engines. The bore spacing is at a bare minimum in the 2zz, so larger bore is out without a complete engine redesign, so the only choice is to lengthen the stroke. That's what the "3zz" kit is. You'll give up some high rpm capability for the extra power. I'm not sure if it would be worth it for long term durability. Even the 2zz is very undersquare (longer stroke than bore) so making the stroke even longer might not be a great idea for an engine as peaky as the Celica.

I don't know how heavy the 3s is, but that's the weight penalty of those .2l

[VZV21]

Originally posted by djm221
What's even nicer about that BEAMS engine is that is has some nice torque fora 2.0l I think it might peak at 161 lb-ft, although I may be wrong on that; I know it is at least in the 150's.

It's low 150's.

The 200 bhp version makes both its peak horsepower and torque at lower rpms than the 210 version.....for an obvious reason (the automatic transmisison).

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by ArchangelX
It'll outhandle, outsprint, and has better brakes....it's a drivers race, alright....
Outsprint will depend on the driver. The Celica does handle better. The Celica doesn't really have better brakes, it's just lighter and has less momentum to dissipate. If the RSX weighed less, it's stock brakes would be able to stop the car as quickly as the Celica.

[ArchangelX]

Good point...didn't even look at it that way.

I suppose it's all how you look at it...let's just say the Celica will outbrake the RSX-S.

Heh. :D

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by ArchangelX
let's just say the Celica will outbrake the RSX-S.


It's still not by a large amount...

[ArchangelX]

:D 60-0: 116ft vs. 134

I think that's a pretty good difference.

[ringthree]

I didn't spend alot of time reading this thread, but the info on that page is just wrong. The engine in the Altezza is the 3S-GTE in Japan. There is not another version of the 2zz-ge anywhere (and please dont claim the "3zz", thats just a modifed 2zz not a different production engine).

Thats the reason that I hate those kinda rumor pages. They post anything, and never have good explainations or even get there facts straight.

[djm221]

Originally posted by ringthree
I didn't spend alot of time reading this thread, but the info on that page is just wrong. The engine in the Altezza is the 3S-GTE in Japan. There is not another version of the 2zz-ge anywhere (and please dont claim the "3zz", thats just a modifed 2zz not a different production engine).

Thats the reason that I hate those kinda rumor pages. They post anything, and never have good explainations or even get there facts straight.

The Altezza does not have the 3S-GTE, it has the 3S-GE dual VVT-i.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by djm221


The Altezza does not have the 3S-GTE, it has the 3S-GE dual VVT-i.
Correct. It has no turbo.

[ringthree]

Originally posted by yakkosmurf

Correct. It has no turbo.

Are you sure? I'm almost positive a version comes with the 3S-gte.

If that is true, why didn't they put that engine in the US model car. Instead of the heavier, and less powerful 2jz. Doesn't make much sense to me.

[djm221]

Originally posted by ringthree


Are you sure? I'm almost positive a version comes with the 3S-gte.

If that is true, why didn't they put that engine in the US model car. Instead of the heavier, and less powerful 2jz. Doesn't make much sense to me.

Isn't there alot of stuff that JDM auto manufacturers do when they bring their cars to the US that doesn't make sense to auto enthusiasts??

[XYRCNCP]

and now toyota is rumored to put an all new V-6 in the IS, which would be idiotic, given that the swap of an IS engine to a TT Supra engine is very feasible.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by XYRCNCP
and now toyota is rumored to put an all new V-6 in the IS, which would be idiotic, given that the swap of an IS engine to a TT Supra engine is very feasible.
Have you noticed that Toyota stopped sending turbo engines to the US. I don't expect to see another one.

[djm221]

Originally posted by yakkosmurf

Have you noticed that Toyota stopped sending turbo engines to the US. I don't expect to see another one.

Instead, they are balancing out the fuel economy of their line by offering more wonderful SUV's in place of sports cars. Thank god for that :angry:

[XYRCNCP]

Originally posted by yakkosmurf

Have you noticed that Toyota stopped sending turbo engines to the US. I don't expect to see another one.

I know that, I was just saying that the car can accept a mkiv TT engine.

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by ArchangelX
:D 60-0: 116ft vs. 134

I think that's a pretty good difference.

Good brake pads and sticky tires can make all the difference in the world. An RSX tested with these two mods (EBC Greenstuff brake pads and Toyo RA1 tires) had a Celica-like stopping distance of 116 ft. I wonder how much stickier tires and better brake pads would drop our car's 60-0 braking distances?

[Xracer729]

is there any possable what we can find out the plans for teh celica? or is it another one of thoes DONT TELL kinda things... is sucks that thoes plans never even leave the headquarters i say we sue toyota for lack of accurate info :):):):):):):):):) j/k

[VZV21]

Originally posted by ringthree


Are you sure? I'm almost positive a version comes with the 3S-gte.

If that is true, why didn't they put that engine in the US model car. Instead of the heavier, and less powerful 2jz. Doesn't make much sense to me.

the 2JZ less powerful? Compared to the 3S-GE for the automatic Altezza, it made 15 more horsepower and 68 lb-fts (with the manual, 5 more horsepower and 68 lb-ft), combined with a broader powerband....it made sense we got the best motor (for once). They could of put the painfully weak 150 bhp 1G-FE (2.0L I-6) motor also.

[t2000gts]

that page is home made, and he probably made a typo. the specs are identical to the BEAMS 3S-GE that's in the Altezza in Japan. 2.0l I4 with VVT-i on both cams making 210hp.

if they wanted to be cheap, they could probably use that in a new celica, with a complete redesign. (why make a standard VVTL-i 2.0l engine when a dual VVT-i 2.0l engine is already available).

i'd rather they made a new 2.0l I4 engine with VVTL-i on both cams...easily upwards of 215-220hp.

i think it would just be a good idea to make a new version of the 2ZZ-GE...same as before, but a new head, that has dual VVTL-i, and better flow. make 200+hp easy.

and then we can swap that head onto all of our cars :chuckles: :naughty:

[Xracer729]

Originally posted by t2000gts
i'd rather they made a new 2.0l I4 engine with VVTL-i on both cams...easily upwards of 215-220hp.

i think it would just be a good idea to make a new version of the 2ZZ-GE...same as before, but a new head, that has dual VVTL-i, and better flow. make 200+hp easy.

and then we can swap that head onto all of our cars :chuckles: :naughty:

i like that idea:applaud:

[ringthree]

Originally posted by VZV21


the 2JZ less powerful? Compared to the 3S-GE for the automatic Altezza, it made 15 more horsepower and 68 lb-fts (with the manual, 5 more horsepower and 68 lb-ft), combined with a broader powerband....it made sense we got the best motor (for once). They could of put the painfully weak 150 bhp 1G-FE (2.0L I-6) motor also.

Pretty sure that the US spec 2jz in the IS3000 makes 205hp, which is 10 less than the 2.0 in question. Not 15hp more.

Could be wrong though. I didn't check.

[Chui]

Interestingly enough, I saw portions of a report that indicated exaggerations in bhp claims by Toyota today. This independent company reported 272 SAE bhp for the supposed 300 bhp LS/GS430 - i think - powerplant and only 162.3 SAE bhp @ 7,250 rpm and 120.2 lb-ft torque @ 7,000 rpm for the 2ZZ-GE engine. These figures were with vehicle air induction and exhaust and "as calibrated in vehicle" spark and fueling. Only with ideal air inlet, minimum Exhaust Gas Back Pressure, Mean Best Torque spark and relative AFR of 0.9 does the car produce the numbers claimed by Toyota. Those numbers are: 178.4 bhp @ 7,500 rpm and 129.4 lb-ft torque @ 7,000 rpm. Similar results with the S2000 as well... 220 bhp as installed in the car.

To be fair, GM reported similar things when I was at GM Powertrain some time ago and it's been claimed by FoMoCo Advanced Powertrain and now by an independent source, FEV.

I was also told that this power exaggeration is common to all Japanese companies - or at least the ones who market sports cars in the US. Looking at recent past faux pas by Mazda and Nissan it makes me wonder. The report also claimed a "conspicuous loss in torque at second cam engagement" which several members' dyno sheets have shown.

Sad.

[djm221]

I don't understand that exaggerating stuff you are talking about. Wheel dynos lean toward underrating the engine HP compared to other manufacturers claims.

[Chui]

I'm not speaking about VEHICLE testing I'm speaking about ENGINE testing. What troubles me [the "sad" comment] is that the US and Germany consistently produce the SAE bhp claimed and in the case of Europe, they've modified the standards such that the least powerful run is the advertised numbers. The Cobra had issues due to tolerances in the intake manifold. Actually, it was a quality issue and the supplier is no longer in the Ford supplier base from what I've been told...

[t2000gts]

wow. what about the GTS(s) we have here in the states that are advertised at 180 (not 190) and dyno at almost 160 at the wheels stock?

if they're making 172 or less hp at the crank, are you then implying the C60 transmission in the GTS only has 10hp drivetrain loss?! :wtf: that's amazing. what is that? 5-6% drivetrain loss? maybe Toyota should start sticking these things in their F1 cars.

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by t2000gts
wow. what about the GTS(s) we have here in the states that are advertised at 180 (not 190) and dyno at almost 160 at the wheels stock?

if they're making 172 or less hp at the crank, are you then implying the C60 transmission in the GTS only has 10hp drivetrain loss?! :wtf: that's amazing. what is that? 5-6% drivetrain loss? maybe Toyota should start sticking these things in their F1 cars.

I was thinking the same thing, t2000. I always thought the 2zz had MORE hp than advertised after seeing all those strong stock dynoes. Either that, or the C60 tranny is one of the most efficient transmissions ever. Chui, just curious, if Toyota exaggerated the GT-S's hp numbers, does that mean that the Type R's hp numbers have also been overrated?

[Chui]

Originally posted by Keyshawn


I was thinking the same thing, t2000. I always thought the 2zz had MORE hp than advertised after seeing all those strong stock dynoes. Either that, or the C60 tranny is one of the most efficient transmissions ever. Chui, just curious, if Toyota exaggerated the GT-S's hp numbers, does that mean that the Type R's hp numbers have also been overrated?

Interestingly enough, the ITR is rated at only 189 bhp in Europe. I am beginning to think it makes 189 bhp as opposed to the 195 bhp advertised here. Performance Car timed the car to 0 to 60 average of 6.2 seconds with a flyer of 5.5 seconds and the 1/4 mile in 14.6 sec or so which is what the car is capable of in at least Sport Compact Car's driver/writers hands.

I wouldn't put much stock into most dyno sheets other than the trends of the curves. About the only thing a dyno is good for is [b]tuning[/i] the vehicle. To be more specific: if I dyno my car after I've broken in the engine and then add an AEM CAI and re-dyno it being careful to insure that the tension in the straps that hold the car down are identical and I make several runs and average them. Of course, it's always better to baseline the car prior to the parts install/modification on the same day. The [b]differences[/i] btwn baseline and modified are real. The peak numbers may very well not be. Then I'd check the indications in the real world by [at least in the ITR] the "Kevin Reed Test" which is 3rd gear 20 mph and floor it 'til 80 mph or so against a known quantity: another ITR and I run it again against a stopwatch [assuming parts are being added/changed quickly].

[VZV21]

Originally posted by ringthree


Pretty sure that the US spec 2jz in the IS3000 makes 205hp, which is 10 less than the 2.0 in question. Not 15hp more.

Could be wrong though. I didn't check.

Pretty sure it's 215 bhp. Might want to check the literature from Lexus, as well as otehr magazines.

The 2.0L in question is the 3S-GE Dual VVT-i....which from the factory doesn't make 225 bhp, 210 with the manual & 200 with the automatic.

[djm221]

Well, since dynos on most American cars and European cars exhibit the same kind of losses, and their engines are not overrated according to SAE or whoever, then how can you disregard those dyno numbers and then say a 160HP pull by a Celica is unreliable proof that the engine is probably putting at least 180bhp?

[yakkosmurf]

That's why I get a little uneasy about comparing dynos of different cars, even if they are made on the same machine. Especially when you look at a single run and not multiple runs.

[ohwhatafeeling]

EVERYONE WHO HASN'T DONE SO ALREADY, PLEASE GO INTO THE PERFORMANCE MOD THREAD AND LOOK FOR THE PETITION THAT DAVID DRAPER HAS STARTED UP......WE JUST NEED YOUR NAME AND E-MAIL ADDRESS .....HE'S GIVIN' THIS TO TOYOTA SO THEY CAN MAYBE GET A MOVE TO CREATE SOME STUFF FOR US OR GET ANSWERS AS TO WHY THEY HAVEN'T DONE SO ALREADY....THANKS ...THIS WILL DRAW ATTENTION TO THE CELICA CROWD, AND TRD WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DENY US ANY LONGER....NOR WILL ANY AFTERMARKET COMPANIES AFTER THE PETITION IS HEARD.....THANKS AGAIN

[Chui]

The numbers posted appeat to be "gross numbers" except that they do have the front end accessory drive. Manual trans losses approximate 5% I'm told. Recall that one can show an "improvement" in power by strapping the car to the rolls tighter...

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by ohwhatafeeling
EVERYONE WHO HASN'T DONE SO ALREADY, PLEASE GO INTO THE PERFORMANCE MOD THREAD AND LOOK FOR THE PETITION THAT DAVID DRAPER HAS STARTED UP......WE JUST NEED YOUR NAME AND E-MAIL ADDRESS .....HE'S GIVIN' THIS TO TOYOTA SO THEY CAN MAYBE GET A MOVE TO CREATE SOME STUFF FOR US OR GET ANSWERS AS TO WHY THEY HAVEN'T DONE SO ALREADY....THANKS ...THIS WILL DRAW ATTENTION TO THE CELICA CROWD, AND TRD WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DENY US ANY LONGER....NOR WILL ANY AFTERMARKET COMPANIES AFTER THE PETITION IS HEARD.....THANKS AGAIN
Can someone ban this guy or at least delete his posts? We don't need this same post on every thread...

[Imprtracr1]

come on people.. this is sad... Altezza RS200 in japan is 210hp using the 3SGE w/dual VVT-i, (manual) and the 2JZGE w/VVT-i (intake cam only) making 215hp.. Yes the swap of the Twin Turbo Supras 2JZGTE does fit into the Altezza/IS300 Im just basically trying to get all the F ucked up facts straight in here... ~Aaron

[VZV21]

Peter Farrell Supercars has turbo kits and accessories for the IS300....