decreasing of the revlimiter

[toyotaracing46]

A question was asked to me. "if your dad is such a high rated mechanic on toyotas then can he tell us why they lowered the rev limiter. Here is your answer
I can tell you that. That is easy. They changed it because stupid ass kids think automatically that higher rpm equals fast speeds.(if you think that is tru well your wrong, the motor is built for a certain powerrange and you can exceed that can go out of it. so if you go out u actually loose power) so they were pushing it to the max and then speed shifting missing the shift and putting a huge hole in the block. and most of these blown engines are under warrenty. This means tonz of cost for toyota. So to save money the lowered the reline and less engine blows. is that ok for a answer

[EzRidA]

Whatever I say take no offense to it. Just going to shed some light on the issue. First of all, when the engine is mishifted there is no whole in the block. No rods are thown, no pistons are mashing. Its the valves in the head that are the weak link on the misshift. Although there not that week considering you can rev this car to 9k with no issues. Secondly if your in 5th gear and have the lower redline and if you misshift into 2nd gear anyway you dice it, slice it, and cut it that engine is going to be upwards of 10k rpm. Engine is going to fail no matter what. Lower limiter or not.

Now if what your trying to say is that Toyota lowered it because the 2ZZGE can't handle th 8300 spark cut off, they have a big problem on their hand. That means that the engine is a lemon in all 00' and 01' Celica's.

IMO Toyota looked for an easy way out of this problem. I think their best solution would have been not to cover misshifts from the get go. Just my 2 cents.

-Dan

[toyotaracing46]

your right. but when you drop the valve into the head from over eving some serious things can happen. Including a whole in your block. Belive me i have seen it like 3 or four times. My dad showed me the whole. I am just giving u a summary of what they sendt my dad in the mail.

[oldster]

I think that EzRidA's point and it is a valid one is that reducing the cutoff would not have a significant impact on the damage from misshifts that are prevelant. One, going from fifth to second during a downshift at high speed or a third to second (wanting fourth) speed shift while dragging. The damage is caused by the mechanical over rev and cannot be controlled by the limiter.

[toyotaracing46]

I understand what you all are saying. but that is there way of trying to lower it down the cheap way!!!

[t2000gts]

yeah, it was a cheap way out, and it's a way that doesn't work to fix misshifts.

the good idea was to change the gates slightly so it's harder to hit 2nd accidentally. they should have left it at that.

[oldster]

True dat........:)

[EzRidA]

Originally posted by toyotaracing46
your right. but when you drop the valve into the head from over eving some serious things can happen. Including a whole in your block. Belive me i have seen it like 3 or four times. My dad showed me the whole. I am just giving u a summary of what they sendt my dad in the mail.


I understand completey. I was just basically saying 9 times out of 10 its the head that gets damaged and not the actual block. Either way when you get an engine spining at such high rpm's a 1000 and 1 things can break. :)

Now what has me wondering is how does Yamaha like all that? Considering that the block is all Toyota and the head was designed by Yamaha.

[Griffin]

Originally posted by EzRidA
Whatever I say take no offense to it. Just going to shed some light on the issue. First of all, when the engine is mishifted there is no whole in the block. No rods are thown, no pistons are mashing. Its the valves in the head that are the weak link on the misshift. Although there not that week considering you can rev this car to 9k with no issues. Secondly if your in 5th gear and have the lower redline and if you misshift into 2nd gear anyway you dice it, slice it, and cut it that engine is going to be upwards of 10k rpm. Engine is going to fail no matter what. Lower limiter or not.

Now if what your trying to say is that Toyota lowered it because the 2ZZGE can't handle th 8300 spark cut off, they have a big problem on their hand. That means that the engine is a lemon in all 00' and 01' Celica's.

IMO Toyota looked for an easy way out of this problem. I think their best solution would have been not to cover misshifts from the get go. Just my 2 cents.

-Dan

Actually over-reving CAN cause catostrophic failure in some cases when extreme engine speeds are reached and no attempt is made to clutch in and spare the motor. I've seen pics of a guy that put a hole in his piston. Also I'm led to believe at least a couple of problems have occured when people over-reved, blew out the oil pump, and kept driving till the engine seized.

As for why toyota did this, my guess is it was a knee jerk reaction. They did this and also changed the shift pattern at the same time, they probably just figured they were hedging their bets. I doubt they even thought about the reduction in 0 to 60 time or 1/4 mile time - they were probably thinking of all the $$$ they were spending on fixing these things.

Oh yeah - what Toyotaracing46 said:

"They changed it because stupid ass kids think automatically that higher rpm equals fast speeds.(if you think that is tru well your wrong, the motor is built for a certain powerrange and you can exceed that can go out of it. so if you go out u actually loose power)"

Thats a bunch of BS - all you have to do is look at the dyno sheets to see that this engine is making power all the way to FUEL cut (They cut fuel not spark BTW). While its true that some engines are not designed that way the 2ZZ isn't one of em.

Griffin

[EzRidA]

Originally posted by Griffin


Actually over-reving CAN cause catostrophic failure in some cases when extreme engine speeds are reached and no attempt is made to clutch in and spare the motor. I've seen pics of a guy that put a hole in his piston. Also I'm led to believe at least a couple of problems have occured when people over-reved, blew out the oil pump, and kept driving till the engine seized.



I was talking more so about a misshift. That is obviously an over rev. However like I said if there really was a problem with the car going to 8300rpm Toyota is going to be in some deep sh!t sooner than later.

[toyotaracing46]

ok let me explaine what happens in a over rev situation. The piston comes up and smacks the vavle becasue it couldn't get out of the way. This in return bends the rod, on the next up stroke since the rod is bent it tries to push the piston up at 9,300 rpm it put a whole right thought the block. so buy decreasing the rev limiter it gives the driver more room for error, and better reliability. Not only was cost the factor but so was the fact that people were getting weary of the engines (no not car people just regualr old joe jones that dosent know jack **** about cars). So your right that it was a cheap way of solving the problem, but it worked. The number of blown motors has gone down. big time!!!

[EzRidA]

I know all about the pistons hitting the valves.

As for the number of blown motors going down. That has changed because of the new shift gate. Trying to shift into 2nd by accident is damn near impossible. You have to try and try hard to get the gear in. If a person does mishift its only saving the engine 400rpm which isn't much if your at the 9k+ mark as it is.

[Griffin]

Originally posted by EzRidA
I know all about the pistons hitting the valves.

As for the number of blown motors going down. That has changed because of the new shift gate. Trying to shift into 2nd by accident is damn near impossible. You have to try and try hard to get the gear in. If a person does mishift its only saving the engine 400rpm which isn't much if your at the 9k+ mark as it is.

Yup yup - If toyota was really worried about this they wouldn't have set the Matrix rev-limiter back up to 8400. The Matrix DOES have the new shift gates however so I think that pretty much says it all. It's also why I think the rev limiter cut on the Celica was a knee-jerk reaction.

Griffin

[EzRidA]

My ponit excatly Griffin. I forgot completely to mention the Matrix.