Arbitration with Toyota...Any Advice?

[JS7773]

Hey all...

I just got my car back from my local Toyota Dealership who says they will not fix my car under warranty. They 'believe' that the problem is the entire clutch assembly needs to be replaced and since they already put one clutch in the car (less than 5000 miles ago) they will not buck up for another. I maintain that I have not abused my vehicle nor my clutch and this is a mechanical failure that I should not be responsible for. The technician 'beleives' that a finger on the clutch has snapped. All they say is 'believe' and 'assume' which means they have not taken the time to check it out, they are just guessing. I called Toyota corporate who is backing up the dealership thus I have no choice but to start the arbitration process. Any hints or suggestions?

One other thing...The dealership maintains that they have put a clutch in my car once before...and they told me at one point that they were going to... but when I look over my service records I find no mention of a clutch nor any of the associated parts (pressure plate, etc.).

This causes a serious safety issue with my car and I am just sick of the troubles. I just don't have the $979 and change that Toyota wants to fix the car (which is a 2000 with under 19000 miles, so still very much in warranty).

Thanks for any help you can give.

[GTS LAID]

hire a lawyer.. if what you're saying here is the entire story then he'll chew them up like dogs...

[JS7773]

I'm going to give them one last chance to work things out nicely tomorrow when the actual service manager returns, but I don't expect I'll get very far.
I found out Toyota is supposed to take out the clutch and examine it for 'abuse' before invalidating my warranty.

I have several friends at the local news station as well...I may decide to get them invovled. I wonder how much money bad press is worth??

[Tony01Gts]

I beat the piss out of my clutch and when they examined it during my tranny work they said it was still good!

[JS7773]

I just spoke with THE manager...

The guy was EXTREMELY rude. I asked questions and his answers were always to the effect of 'because you abuse your car' (I am probably one of the easiest drivers on this board...I can't even bring myself to launch above 2500...)

I asked him about the clutch and how he knew it was abused ...
...I know your type...

I asked him if he examined the part to be sure it was not a defect
...I don't have to...I KNOW what happened, and so do you...

I said 'so you are assuming all of this?'
...Yes, and my assumptions are correct...


That was all I needed to know. I'm already getting in contact with the TV station. Arbitration and court, here I come!!

[GTS LAID]

good luck... while you're at it also file with the better business bureau.. this guy is an ass

[Brett]

When they first replaced your Clutch did they say that they will only replace it one time? The Toyota Dealership was gonna replace my clutch at one point when they were messing with my Transmission and said that they will only replace the clutch one time. However, they ended up not replacing the clutch, cause it didnt need replacing, duh.

It sounds like this could be the case with you. You might just be screwed. Cause if you agreed, then they have no obligation to replace this clutch, considering it is a wear and tear item.

[Brett]

Oh, and just remember, Arbitration is through Toyota Corp. Not through the dealership.

[blahx]

Did you try to get your clutch fixed at another dealership?

[JS7773]

No, they did not tell me that that was the only time they would fix it. My service manager told me the pressure plate was slightly bent so they were going to replace it...that is all that was said about it.

I haven't tried another dealership because all this information is on file with toyota who has already denied the warranty work, so another dealership wouldn't be able to do anything.

It is good to know though that I have found a dealership where human error is not possible ;)

[WebWalker]

Well there is a big differance between a broken pp and a worn out clutch disk. Hell that PP should last a really really long time.

[J3adSeed]

if you really want to **** them over, you can do it real simply.

go back in with a tape recorder. get him to say all that again. then when he's done, pull out the tape recorder, play it to him, and tell him you're going to your friends and the news station.

[Griffin]

Originally posted by JS7773
Hey all...

I just got my car back from my local Toyota Dealership who says they will not fix my car under warranty. They 'believe' that the problem is the entire clutch assembly needs to be replaced and since they already put one clutch in the car (less than 5000 miles ago) they will not buck up for another. I maintain that I have not abused my vehicle nor my clutch and this is a mechanical failure that I should not be responsible for. The technician 'beleives' that a finger on the clutch has snapped. All they say is 'believe' and 'assume' which means they have not taken the time to check it out, they are just guessing. I called Toyota corporate who is backing up the dealership thus I have no choice but to start the arbitration process. Any hints or suggestions?

One other thing...The dealership maintains that they have put a clutch in my car once before...and they told me at one point that they were going to... but when I look over my service records I find no mention of a clutch nor any of the associated parts (pressure plate, etc.).

This causes a serious safety issue with my car and I am just sick of the troubles. I just don't have the $979 and change that Toyota wants to fix the car (which is a 2000 with under 19000 miles, so still very much in warranty).

Thanks for any help you can give.

Number one: Unless modified the stock pressure plate should NOT experience snapping in the fingers. I'm curious how exactly you are supposed to be able to abuse a clutch to produce this effect. Sounds to me like they might have F*ed up when they replaced it the first time.

Number two - what exactly is wrong with your car / what is it doing?

Griffin

[JS7773]

Okay, they are assuming everything... I'm planning on talking to my lawyer on Monday to see what he suggests.

Griffin> I have been asking the same thing. Even abusing as much as I could imagine I don't see how I could break a clutch that is less that 5 months old and has less than 5000 miles on it. (clutch put on Jan 9th of this year)

Under normal driving conditions shifting nice and easy (under 4K rpm) everything is fine Over 6K the clutch turns to mush. over 6500 the clutch drops to the floor and stays there until the engins slows back down to idle. The tech told be he thinks my flywheel is warped as well (caused by the clutch he thinks) which causes a squealing sound under the hood (sounds alot like the belt tensioner problem to me)

I have been as reasonable as possible, extremely calm and not pointing fingers at anyone, In turn Toyota has done nothing but point their finger at me without any evidence to back them up. I know the car has not been abused (and especially not in the last 5000 miles since the clutch was put on).

I'm afraid even if I do get the clutch fixed there is still going to be other damage under the hood toyota might try to pin on me as well...

J3adSeed> I don't think that will be a problem...he seemed very willing to point his finger at me in front of anyone. I do wish I had gotten it on tape though as I feel that he discriminated against be based on my age. He basically said that he knew that I was racing my car and that is why the clutch was broke (which is not the case. My Dad was in the car with me when it happend and I shifted at 7500 RPM, not exactly racing...I was passing a dump truck on a 2-lane road)

[J.C.]

Sometimes the dealerships are willing to work with you...... But for him just to assume..!!! I don't think so... I would put some pressure on his boss and see what happens.... Beleive me, the last thing a dealership wants is a confrontation and bad press....
You need to gather all your service records and present them to a Higher authority..... Point out that there was no clutch replacement and what not...... Good luck.....

[CSteckel]

OK,
Not to sound completely negative, but take this for what it is worth. The problems you are talking about (with the clutch) are nearly identical to what happens to a clutch/p.plate after a bad misshift. The clutch plate actually warps and you'll get a lot of chatter when you depress it or let it out. Does your clutch pedal stick to the floor at all or feel as if it hesitates when you let it out? This is a well documented set of circumstances for a mishift at the dealer. They may come back at you and say you misshifted. Just giving you a possible scenario.
Best of luck!!

[JS7773]

CSteckel> It doesn't hesitate below 6K at all...over 6K the clutch simply sticks to the floor and stays there until the engine revs to idle. I know this wasn't a misshift, but I know I'll have a hard time proving it to the dealer. My dad was with me in the car when it happened and was watching my RPM when I shifted...he said I shifted at 7500 and then the tach just dropped until it hit idle. At that time I was stuck in neutral and could not get into any gears until the engine went to idle.

Also note that was the first time I had revved the engine that high since getting the car back from having the synchros fixed.

And my records don't show the clutch replacement, but they say it is in the computer. I have requested a copy but have not received it as of yet.

[CSteckel]

I'm just saying that if I was a dealer, this is the route I would go. Just giving a heads up. 1st time after the syncro's were fixed??? Hmmmm.......

[JS7773]

...my point exactly...

But I do see your point...I think that is exactly what the dealer is thinking...

[JS7773]

Okay...

Had a friend of the family put a new clutch in my car (ordered a centerforce dual-friction clutch). When he got it apart he found the problem...

Toyota put the WRONG BOLT in!! They apparently used a softer rated bolt then over torqued the bolt when they put everything back together. The head sheared off which caused my problem.

I can't wait to see how toyota responds to this...

[ringthree]

Thats awesome dude. You are probably still going to have to get a lawyer but you will win.

[JS7773]

I hope so... should get the car back tomorrow...

[VTEC-SHMEE-TEC]

is it just me or does anyone else think that getting your friend to replace your clutch was a really bad idea..now that you've messed with the car they have more firepower on you cause now youve modified the car...i can understand that you need your car to be fixed but I think you might have just killed your chances..not trying to be mean

[JS7773]

ah... friend of the family...

My dad knows a guy, who owns a shop, who knows another guy, who owns a shop... that guy fixed my car.

Basically I asked my dad's friend who he would suggest...

he sent me to Phil's Toy Store (as in Toyota) in Cary, NC.

Phil has no vested interest in me and his shop is Toyota certified...

Should be no problems there.
(I do understand what you're saying though...That's why I didn't have my Dad's friend fix it)

[Tony01Gts]

Toyota arbitration is a NO NO. The NCDS is not state certified or licensed and their neutrality is a crock of ****. Ask anyone who's dealt with them. Go throught the bbb or get a lawyer.

[Willis5050]

I got exactly what I asked for in NCDS arbitration. The main concern they have during arbitration is if the problems still exist. If they do, then you have a much better chance of winning.

[VTEC-SHMEE-TEC]

Originally posted by JS7773
Phil has no vested interest in me and his shop is Toyota certified...


If he's toyota certified you should be all set..take a copy of the service report in which they outline the bolt mishap described by the toyota certified mechanic that found it and you should be fine..good luck

[JS7773]

Thanks...

Main thing I'm after from toyota now is an apology...and my money back...

[GOReP]

Not to be a ****. But what does Toyota have to do w/ your Problem. Its obvious that the dealer is the one you should be complaining about. Toyota Doesn't have to give you an apology. Its the dealer who put the wrong bolt. You need to vent your anger to the right people.

[heltor2]

Toyota is responsible for honoring the warranty by keeping your vehicle in proper repair. They choose to do this by having dealerships do the repairs. If Toyota relied on the dealer to do the job and the dealer failed, Toyota is responsible for getting the vehicle repaired again.

Heltor

[JS7773]

Fred Anderson Toyota in Raleigh contacted Toyota Corporate who made the decision not to honor the warranty. I'm sure that the dealership holds responsibility for not being as thorough in investigating the problem, but I now have to deal through Toyota Corporate.

And I do want the apology to come from the dealership...the service manager to be exact as everyone else was quite nice and helpful while he was a complete @ss.