Can the 2zz handle lift?

[Max654]

Recently, I bought a 01 Celica GT-S 6spd with 100k miles on it in August. Everything was clean, running good, valves looks good, everything oiled up. So, Im 20 and I drive it pretty hard. At least engaging lift a couple times everytime I drive, and I drive just about every day. But, barely ever going above 8k revs. But I dont mean, every time Im at a light or merging on a highway Im revving the hell out of it. Often Im shifting at 3k or below as well as a bit of lifting. Id say about 50/50 of my driving, Id be doing lift. Then, last saturday, my engine completely dies on me. Mechanic says it either had a lousy owner in the past who ran it low on oil, or it was driven hard consistently.

So, Im at a dilemna here. I have lost most of my confidence in the 2zz motor. I mean, why have lift if it can't handle it? I may as well get a GT if I dont drive in lift. Its like being given a car with a turbo and being told not to use it or the engine may break. Am I wrong in my assumption? Could this engine just have had a much harder 100k miles before me to cause this breakdown? Or is it really not meant to handle excessive lift usage?

[atrac7GTS]

lift was its selling point, i think it should be able to handle it, there are guys here on this site that have no complaints about their GT-S at all with high mileage, albeit the simple change of the lift bolts from the previous to the newer ones

[Punkers7465]

what part of your engine died or failed?

[Red Falcon]

Recently, I bought a 01 Celica GT-S 6spd with 100k miles on it in August. Everything was clean, running good, valves looks good, everything oiled up. So, Im 20 and I drive it pretty hard. At least engaging lift a couple times everytime I drive, and I drive just about every day. But, barely ever going above 8k revs. But I dont mean, every time Im at a light or merging on a highway Im revving the hell out of it. Often Im shifting at 3k or below as well as a bit of lifting. Id say about 50/50 of my driving, Id be doing lift. Then, last saturday, my engine completely dies on me. Mechanic says it either had a lousy owner in the past who ran it low on oil, or it was driven hard consistently.

So, Im at a dilemna here. I have lost most of my confidence in the 2zz motor. I mean, why have lift if it can't handle it? I may as well get a GT if I dont drive in lift. Its like being given a car with a turbo and being told not to use it or the engine may break. Am I wrong in my assumption? Could this engine just have had a much harder 100k miles before me to cause this breakdown? Or is it really not meant to handle excessive lift usage?

What the hell are you doing driving in lift half of the time you are in the car?!?!

[Max654]

What the hell are you doing driving in lift half of the time you are in the car?!?!

So, you're saying thats a lot and the engine can't handle that much stress?

[Max654]

what part of your engine died or failed?


Im not quite sure. The mechanic who looked at it was a bit vague. But Im going to be tearing it apart and checking it out myself soon. I believe he said some bearings around the bottom were completely shot.

[RadeonX]

he was most likely refering to the rod and main bearings. not to question your mechanical skills but if you weren't fully sure of the bearings he was talking about do you feel your able to start tearing apart the block confidently? it doesn't matter what engine you have if your driving around half the time and revving that high somethings going to break. might have to be a little more descriptive about the situation for us to be able to help you.

[Nineball]

I hit Lift at least a dozen times a day, and I've never experienced any problems. If you're sitting a low gear and cruising in lift, yeah, you'll wear something out. If you're just hitting 6k RPM's a lot, it's probably going to be good on your engine.

[Genomaxter]

So long as you keep the car well maintained, driving hard isnt a problem. But thats the problem. Have your the previous owner maintained it for the type of driving you do?

The engine is stress tested for reliability by Toyota so I highly doubt that the 2zz cant stay in lift for too long. Thats just bull.

[Punkers7465]

I hit Lift at least a dozen times a day, and I've never experienced any problems.

x2

and just like someone else said you probably destroyed your rod/main bearings... I'm tempted to replace mine with mwr sooner or later for a little bit of extra security.

[Sty09]

Your an idiot for wondering why your engine ****s itself when you race a 100k celica 1/2 the time you drive it.

[Gas-n-Grease]

^ +1

[Max654]

he was most likely refering to the rod and main bearings. not to question your mechanical skills but if you weren't fully sure of the bearings he was talking about do you feel your able to start tearing apart the block confidently? it doesn't matter what engine you have if your driving around half the time and revving that high somethings going to break. might have to be a little more descriptive about the situation for us to be able to help you.

I've got a friend who's mechanically savvy whos going to walk through it with me. And yes, I believe it was the bearings.

But I seem to be getting mixed opinions here. Some of you say the engine can handle lift fine, but others say, not too kindly, that it can't. Maybe you are misinterpreting what I mean when I say 50/50. I dont mean 50% of the time Im in my car, my engine is revving in lift around 6-7k. I dont just drive on the highway in constant high rev. I mean to say that if Im at a light or some such, about half the time Id drive the engine to lift through 1st and 2nd and shift. Other half of the time, Id just drive it normally.

[Punkers7465]

I know of a couple people with 100k + mile celica's who've redlined them fairly often at lights just like you were talking about and still have no major problems...

As far as I know you just need to take care of your engine; make sure the oil/filter is changed frequently (use synthetic if you dont already), dont drive your car until it's fully warmed up etc. The only thing I worry about is hitting lift during a hard right hand turn as it could starve the engine of oil due to the location of the oil pump.

*edited for spelling

[Max654]

I know of a couple people with 100k + mile celica's who've redlined them fairly often at lights just like you were talking about and still have no major problems...

As far as I know you just need to take care of your engine; make sure the oil/filter is changed frequently (use synthetich if you dont already), dont drive your car until it's fully warmed up etc. The only thing I worry about is hitting lift during a hard right hand turn as it could starve the engine of oil due to the location of the oil pump.

Hmm, that could be part of what happened. I have done some hard lifting after right turns before. Well, Ill watch out for that in the future if I ever get my car running again, that is. :( Any of you know a decent price for an engine?

[RadeonX]

to answer your question if the 2zz can handle lift yes it can lol. i remember seeing an engine longevity test a while back and i believe the 2zz took first or close too. The 2zz was built to hit lift and if your only bringing it up to 7k then you shouldn't have any issues. as for the oil starvation issue it usually only occurs in VERY hard turning situations like while autoxing for example. If you keep your engine properly maintained like the other members have stated then no you shouldn't have any real problems. if you and your friend are going to be replacing your bearings then i advise you to take extra care in making sure you measure out all the clearences correctly. if there off you might find that youve gone through all that work of tearing apart the bottom end and 1k later or show your getting knock or worse throw a rod. hopefully this has answered most your questions and to sum basically all this thread up. maintain your engine, synthetics and regular oil changes and you shouldn't have any problems.

[RadeonX]

oh forgot to add one more thing. before you start tearing apart the bottom end take it to a certified toyota mechanic or someone who has at least worked with a 2zz in the past. it's a noisy engine and the sounds from the valve train can be mistaken as knock. better to check with someone that knows then find out you tore apart your block for no reason.

[Max654]

oh forgot to add one more thing. before you start tearing apart the bottom end take it to a certified toyota mechanic or someone who has at least worked with a 2zz in the past. it's a noisy engine and the sounds from the valve train can be mistaken as knock. better to check with someone that knows then find out you tore apart your block for no reason.

Oh, the engine is definately dead. The guy who looked at my car specializes in Toyota/Lexus and has seen quite a few 2zz's before. Unfortunately, I can't really afford to pay him to install/fix my engine, thus me and my friend will attempt.

[Rombomb420]

Anywhere from $2.5 to $3k for a 2zz off of ebay with about half the mileage of yours. ;)

[Max654]

Anywhere from $2.5 to $3k for a 2zz off of ebay with about half the mileage of yours. ;)

Sounds better than the prices my mechanic is finding. 3.8k for an engine with 70k miles on it. How do I know any of these engines won't fall apart, though?

[lVlemphizStylez]

you dont...it's a gamble...The guy selling on ebay will say warranty...but you must pay to ship it back to them for them to EXAMINE it and determine if the engine's faulty operation is theirs or your fault...AKA it can turn into a legal dispute. Try to find one locally, believe me you'll save yourself a lot of hassle. We've purchased engine before from ebay with blown headgaskets, warped heads etc..

[andrews]

so half of the time you're driving, you're in lift? lol wtf why!

[autxr]

I probably hit lift in 1st and 2nd gear 10+ times per day (to and from work). My engine is running strong after 8 years and 91,000 miles. I've also been known to autocross it 12+ events per year.

Scott

[JonGTSVegas]

106,000 miles...still hits lift strong on a daily basis.

I did swap out the old lift bolts for the new ones, and I keep maintenance up religiously.

[GTdude]

hmm. sounds like Lift is developing its own sort of 'crankwalk'? oh noes!

[Punkers7465]

I probably hit lift in 1st and 2nd gear 10+ times per day (to and from work). My engine is running strong after 8 years and 91,000 miles. I've also been known to autocross it 12+ events per year.

Scott

I think I've hit lift just as much and have had no problems but I'm curious... Have you done anything to your engine to protect it? (Morso oil pan, new oil pump, oil cooler, bearings etc)

[GSBoek]

7 years on my car, 70K miles. One spun rodbearing (previous owner didn't do rebuild properly). Hit Lift on a regular basis, shifting at 8300 rpm 95% of the times I hit Lift. No complaints, it can take, in fact I've found that a regular dose of Lift is good for the engine.

[vip09]

When was the last time you checked your oil level? :confused:


My engine has over 150 drag strip launches, several autocross days, and lots of spirited drives. No problems.

If you didn't run it low on oil, someone probably ran it without oil before you bought it.

[Max654]

Yea, so took part of the engine apart today. The valves and cams are all fine, the problem arose around the crankshaft. got a spun bearing on cylinder two. Im hoping the head isn't all ground up. Find out later this week.

Oh, and are there any performance crankshafts out there? Now that Im replacing it, may as well upgrade.

[vip09]

Yea, so took part of the engine apart today. The valves and cams are all fine, the problem arose around the crankshaft. got a spun bearing on cylinder two. Im hoping the head isn't all ground up. Find out later this week.

Oh, and are there any performance crankshafts out there? Now that Im replacing it, may as well upgrade.

A crankshaft from a 1zz will get you to 1.9x liters.. almost 2 liters.

[GSBoek]

Yea, so took part of the engine apart today. The valves and cams are all fine, the problem arose around the crankshaft. got a spun bearing on cylinder two. Im hoping the head isn't all ground up. Find out later this week.

Oh, and are there any performance crankshafts out there? Now that Im replacing it, may as well upgrade.
A brandnew Toyota crank is perfectly fine, those are forged. Anybody who's spun a bearing will tell you to get a new rod for no.2 also, to avoid any out of round that could lead to respinning the same bearing.
I also spun no.2, twice. I did change the rods on no.2 and 3 but had clearance issues with the bearings the shop installed. I ended up turning the whole crank and installing oversize TOGA HP bearings myself. Been fine so far, over a year later.

As for stroking with a 1ZZ crank, inform yourself well on that, ask around.

[Butt Dyno]

Then, last saturday, my engine completely dies on me.
<Jesse> Was that FUN?</Jesse>

[Max654]

So a 1zz crankshaft works in a 2zz? Anything else thats interhcnageable around that area? Ill probably need a new rod too.

[GSBoek]

Slow down a bit. The 1ZZ crank works in a 2ZZ if you are going to stroke it (which will require custom pistons and/or rods), you can't drop a 1ZZ crank in the 2ZZ block and keep the stock 2ZZ rods AND pistons, it won't work like that, just making sure you knew.

[Max654]

UPDATE:

Ok, took the engine apart. Ive got a spun bearing in cylinder two. It got ground up and I found chunks of metal in my oil pan and oil pump, which seized that up. So, cylinder two started scraping against the cylinder wall and scratching that up good. And with the oil pump dead the whole engine started starving for oil. The crank is bad, most of the bearings are bad, and cylinder 1 and 2 are scratched up. But, the valve area and cams seems to be good, so I just need a short block it seems. But I may just go and get a whole new engine. Oh, and my clutch is pretty worn, so gonna replace that too. And good performance clutches around that you guys would recommend?

[lpphreakx06]

Lift, hit it a few times a week or even a few times a day, just dont hit it everytime you get a chance. Then you are begging for it to blow up.

[Punkers7465]

lots of people here seem to like the southbend clutches. Good luck with the engine re-build/replacement!

[Genomaxter]

So long as the engine is warmed up to a proper temp and it is broken in well, hitting lift every chance you get will only make you mpg go to hell. Only a poorly maintained engine will fail.

[Max654]

So long as the engine is warmed up to a proper temp and it is broken in well, hitting lift every chance you get will only make you mpg go to hell. Only a poorly maintained engine will fail.

Yea, well it seems that way. My engine seems that whoever had it before me didn't change the oil often, and when they did, it wasn't synthetic. That combined with my hard driving caused it to break it seems.

[deercelica]

7 years on my car, 70K miles. One spun rodbearing (previous owner didn't do rebuild properly). Hit Lift on a regular basis, shifting at 8300 rpm 95% of the times I hit Lift. No complaints, it can take, in fact I've found that a regular dose of Lift is good for the engine.




I run my motor HARD. (i have warrenty :) )

Lift daily. hard downshifts (never misshift though, don't get me wrong) I drive hard, not dumb.

[SpikedCola]

I think some of you guys understood him wrong. Unless Im mistaken, he meant he was HITTING lift 50% of the time, not actually driving in the 8k range half the time.

OP, am I right?

[Max654]

I think some of you guys understood him wrong. Unless Im mistaken, he meant he was HITTING lift 50% of the time, not actually driving in the 8k range half the time.

OP, am I right?

Yep.

[pedram1370]

I run my motor HARD. (i have warrenty :) )

Lift daily. hard downshifts (never misshift though, don't get me wrong) I drive hard, not dumb.

if ur engine breakes down, toyota's warranty will not cover it! when my brother bought his GT-S the dealer made him sign a paper saying if you rev or downshift hard on the celica, the warranty will not cover a penney of the damage. but they didnt made people sign that paper for GT. :AF:

oh and there is a computer on the Gt-S that records all of those.

[autxr]

I think I've hit lift just as much and have had no problems but I'm curious... Have you done anything to your engine to protect it? (Morso oil pan, new oil pump, oil cooler, bearings etc)

No. Synthetic oil since the first oil change. Nothing beyond that.

[pioneer_sti]

if ur engine breakes down, toyota's warranty will not cover it! when my brother bought his GT-S the dealer made him sign a paper saying if you rev or downshift hard on the celica, the warranty will not cover a penney of the damage. but they didnt made people sign that paper for GT. :AF:

oh and there is a computer on the Gt-S that records all of those.

The engine was built to be able to safely rev to the limiter. Manufacturers are responsible for building in safe gaurds to make sure the engine can't exceed it's limits. The only waiver to any part of the warranty I would have signed, is a stipulation excluding coverage for over reving caused by a mistaken downshift when trying to upshift. I doubt the stock computer has any form of long term datalogging, so the only thing that may be recorded by the stock ECU is tell tales (maximum levels). If the stock ECU had that capabilty it would allow the dealer to see the maximum rpm the engine has seen. So if the tell tale is 9,000 rpm, they know you miss changed.

Be very careful what you believe from a dealership, especially the sales people. They are highly skilled at knowing less than nothing about what they sell, and at any given moment can spontaneously spew out myths that make fictional authors feel inferior.

I don't have enough experience with the stock ECU yet to state whether what you said was correct or not, but rather than stating it has datalogging capabilites, you might want to ask here first if it does, so you're not guitly of being the one that started that myth if it isn't true. ;)

[Max654]

Oh and one more thing guys. I did have a misshift about two months before this happened. The engine hit around 9k for a quarter second, and was fine after that until now. But, it could've contributed to the wear on the engine which lead to this, Im not sure.

[GSBoek]

If you surf this board enough, the majority of failures the 2ZZ has seen have been directly related to misshifts/poor maintenance records either by the current owner or previous owners.

[ErikJohnson]

Oh and one more thing guys. I did have a misshift about two months before this happened. The engine hit around 9k for a quarter second, and was fine after that until now. But, it could've contributed to the wear on the engine which lead to this, Im not sure.

Gee, that sounds like important information.

Your oil pump blew up.

[Max654]

Gee, that sounds like important information.

Your oil pump blew up.

Yea, yea. :(

[deercelica]

Haha, sorry dude.

My warrenty already covered 1 2zz-ge. (2 months after i bought it)
I use a "used" warrenty company. 3 years or 50,000 miles. My car will be close to 150k at that point, i'll probably just sell it anyways.

BTW: I have cold air intake, exhaust, short shift kit, lowering kit, carbon fiber headliner. polished valve cover, and intake runners. there wasnt a question about these mods when they put my new motor in, they even switched over my intake and stuff.