koni yellow+stechs vs tein basics

[SquareEnix]

i'm about to order a suspension kit, but don't know which one too choose. read like 6 pages of post but didn't find this comparison. Koni yellows with Stechs cost the same as tein basics. i've heard mixed reviews on the basics so i don't know which one to get. Only used as daily driven, no autoX. Do the konis setup give a smoother ride, because i don't want a lot of bounciness when i drive. I know the basics probably give better handling, but is it that big of a difference?
thankx for any pointers.

[03GTSTRD]

I would choose the S techs with the Koni Yellows. I had Koni's on my old GSR and they were awesome.

[2SuPeRwHiTe000]

My room mate has koni yellows with ground control springs on his integra and its bouncy as hell, I refuse to ride in his car. I dunno if he just doesnt have it set up properly or if its the springs that are too stiff. My other friend has BC racing coil overs on his STi and it rides awesome at 3/4 full stiffness.

[SquareEnix]

ok, i'm leaning more into getting the coilovers. how about a comparison between tein basics and D2s?

[03GTSTRD]

ok, i'm leaning more into getting the coilovers. how about a comparison between tein basics and D2s?

You will wish you would have taken my advise when it's said and done. The S tech/Koni combo is a much better setup than the basics. The only plus with the basics is you can adjust ride height.

[Transcend]

Tein basics are crappy. Tein springs are not very good either. I've seen more sagging/settling problems with Tein springs than any other brand.

[redbull]

Koni Yellows with the right Ground Control spring will beat anything out hands down.

[Cookie]

Tein basics are crappy. Tein springs are not very good either. I've seen more sagging/settling problems with Tein springs than any other brand.

Very true. If you're dead set on Tein's, I wouldn't get anything lower then Flexes.

[Redpunk]

Go head for Koni's...

[SquareEnix]

ok, i've scrapped teins basics, flex is too expensive. it's only gonna be a daily driver car. question, anyone here with konis had to get a camber kit?

[lpphreakx06]

flex isnt even availible for the celica lol. ehhh, cant go wrong with konis.

[Automaton]

Get the TRD kit or something else that comes with perfectly matched springs and struts. Koni's take trial and error to adjust, and the rears require homemade tools and cutting a hole in your trunk plastics. It doesn't sound like you are interested in that level of involvement.

[Transcend]

ok, i've scrapped teins basics, flex is too expensive. it's only gonna be a daily driver car. question, anyone here with konis had to get a camber kit?
You should get a camber kit regardless and get an alignment after your suspension settles. That way you can correct your off-toe angle and have your tires last longer.

Negative camber is not what kills tire life. It's an off toe angle that does it.

[Mike21]

Koni Yellows with the right Ground Control spring will beat anything out hands down.
+1

i've had several koni/gc setups and none of them were bouncy.

[TaeMachine]

Preferably, you should order your gc with the spring rate you want then have Koni valve according to that spring rate. Also have them shortened so you still maintain the suspension travel after lowering.

I say go with what Automaton said and get TRD or some spring/shock kit. Low, soft, and cheap.

[SilverGT5783]

anyone know a good place to buy koni's

[SquareEnix]

hopupracing has them for 600 shipped

[StaticX27]

Ground control can put you together an entire package with koni's, springs, sleeves and camber plates for a pretty reasonable price.

Advantage is that they'll give you koni's that are already properly valved to the spring rates you want... or springs that are properly paired to the valving of the koni's :P

[dirkadirrka]

really? you have a link 4 that???

[dirkadirrka]

whats so bad about basics? they ride nice and look good, and they are adjustable and cheep. and tien... whats the matter w/ them?

[clarionguy]

Hey, I just put on my KONI's + S-tech's ... before I had S-techs on stock ... After installing them, its like night and day ...

I also had Eibach sportlines, but I refused to buy camber kits ...
When I did my alignment, everything came out good on the stock camber adjusters.

So, the fronts are very easy to adjust and you can seroiusly feel the difference from full soft to full stiff... Its so nice on full stiff, response its bascially instantaneous... although I also have a TRD Rear sway bar...

The backs are a pain in the ass to adjust... I adjusted them once when I put them in and left it as is... after installing them, even wit hthe plastics off.. you have like a little square opening which almost looks impossible to turn the adjuster... I guess I will have to try with a needle nose plier or something...

anyways, my initial settings were 1/2 in the back and 3/4 in the front... it was amazing handling,, i'm riding on 205/50/16 Goodyear Eagle F1's ...

BUT.....

Handling and stiffness was fun in the beginning, I just drive around the city and highways now and its bugging the hell out of me... its way too stiff...
I changed the front to full soft... and haven't touched the back yet.. and I can feel the front absorbs and the ride is comfortable, but once the back hits that little lump or bump in the ground .. you still that stiff hard ride ... e.g. oscillates VERY little but rapidly...

this is just my opinion, but I honsetly don't see how people drive daily with even the back on 1/2 ... I would just put full soft or 1/4 the next time I attempt to adjust them (gotta take all the plastics off again, plus deal with -5 to -10 degree weather (CANADA).

[Transcend]

whats so bad about basics? they ride nice and look good, and they are adjustable and cheep. and tien... whats the matter w/ them?
You obviously missed the part where we all implied that Tein Basics suck. Everything Tein makes below their "FLEX" line only looks pretty. But the quality is NOT there. Tein springs also like to sag more than normal too. Not to mention Koni yellows give you damper force adjustability. If you want height adjustability too then just get a set of ground control sleeved coils.

[vegeta4ss]

Hey, I just put on my KONI's + S-tech's ... before I had S-techs on stock ... After installing them, its like night and day ...

I also had Eibach sportlines, but I refused to buy camber kits ...
When I did my alignment, everything came out good on the stock camber adjusters.

So, the fronts are very easy to adjust and you can seroiusly feel the difference from full soft to full stiff... Its so nice on full stiff, response its bascially instantaneous... although I also have a TRD Rear sway bar...

The backs are a pain in the ass to adjust... I adjusted them once when I put them in and left it as is... after installing them, even wit hthe plastics off.. you have like a little square opening which almost looks impossible to turn the adjuster... I guess I will have to try with a needle nose plier or something...

anyways, my initial settings were 1/2 in the back and 3/4 in the front... it was amazing handling,, i'm riding on 205/50/16 Goodyear Eagle F1's ...

BUT.....

Handling and stiffness was fun in the beginning, I just drive around the city and highways now and its bugging the hell out of me... its way too stiff...
I changed the front to full soft... and haven't touched the back yet.. and I can feel the front absorbs and the ride is comfortable, but once the back hits that little lump or bump in the ground .. you still that stiff hard ride ... e.g. oscillates VERY little but rapidly...

this is just my opinion, but I honsetly don't see how people drive daily with even the back on 1/2 ... I would just put full soft or 1/4 the next time I attempt to adjust them (gotta take all the plastics off again, plus deal with -5 to -10 degree weather (CANADA).
good review.

Just curious, how long did you use the s-techs before pairing them with the koni's? I've been on mine for 2.5 or 3 years now(on tokico hp's), but dont want to replace the s-techs when I get the koni's so I hope they have not sagged any.

[Thor]

So, a member here decided to go Koni with a "crappy" springs and have good results, probably due to blown/used Toyota struts to begin with.

Tein is at the bottom of crap. I own a Celica. Celica=crap. That's fact.

Audi=crap hang time/Mercedes -BMW squared. I have driven a few.

Transcend, care to elaborate on why everything is below standards regarding a Celica?

What are you running on a Celica and what are your imporessions on that said suspension settup?

I'm curious.

[Transcend]

So, a member here decided to go Koni with a "crappy" springs and have good results, probably due to blown/used Toyota struts to begin with.

Tein is at the bottom of crap. I own a Celica. Celica=crap. That's fact.

Audi=crap hang time/Mercedes -BMW squared. I have driven a few.

Transcend, care to elaborate on why everything is below standards regarding a Celica?

What are you running on a Celica and what are your imporessions on that said suspension settup?

I'm curious.
You said it yourself. Celica = Crap, so why would I have one?
Tein has to mass produce springs to meet the demands of idiots, guess where they do it? I'll give you a clue: not in Japan so the quality control isn't always there.

You misunderstand standards. Crap is crap, it doesn't matter if it's crap for a Celica, crap for a Civic, or even crap for a Ferrari...if it's crap, it doesn't make it "better crap" if you slap it on a Ferrari, it's still crap.

BMWs have probably the best balance with the sport suspensions and a well-reinforced chassis. Audi's chassis comes close to BMW's but with careful suspension tuning coupled with a race-proven AWD system it can out handle BMWs with the right kind of driver behind the wheel. Mercedes...in general (save a few "sporty models") is just a heavily reinforced chassis with a suspension that tuned just "hard enough" so that idiots won't complain that it's too bumpy. There's a difference between "driven" and tested, from what you have said- you have "driven" but not tested.

And for your reference (check btw sig). I've had humble beginnings. Eibach Pro-kit/OEM shocks, Ground Control sleeved coils/Koni Yellows, Zeal Function B6, and now I'm waiting on my KW Variant 3s for my A4.

I've had almost 7 years of experience tuning handling on a FF-based platform. I know what works, doesn't work, what will help, where reinforcement is needed, etc. But in the end tuning is only relative to your driving techniques.

[Thor]

You are giving the run around. I'm sure you ask for my help in the past, and I could dig up the PM's.

You know nothing if you have to prove it here and keep posting it here.

Give an answer to my question. What are you running on a Celica or what was your previous settup before your great car/cars?

I'm up by 2 fold on the driving tuning "experience" to you by what you wrote.

I'm more than aware to the Audi you drive and I'm sorry.

[Transcend]

You are giving the run around. I'm sure you ask for my help in the past, and I could dig up the PM's.

You know nothing if you have to prove it here and keep posting it here.

Give an answer to my question. What are you running on a Celica or what was your previous settup before your great car/cars?

I'm up by 2 fold on the driving tuning "experience" to you by what you wrote.

I'm more than aware to the Audi you drive and I'm sorry.
I'm sorry. I was a Type R elitist, I only posted in the Type R and Road Racing forums in Honda-Tech.

And since you asked demanded I guess I could post up the old suspension/brake mod lists on the EG and Type R. Since my setups has been tried/done before shortly after I posted them up.

[quote]1992 Honda Civic hatchback:

Suspension
- Spoon SW338 15x6.5 wheels (8.55lbs each)
- Falken Azenis ST215 205/15/50
- Skunk2 forged Magnesium alloy lug nuts
- Skunk2 Extended wheel studs
- ZEAL (Endless) Function B6 with "hard" spring-rates (ITR spec)
- Skunk2 front camber kit
- Spoon front tower strut bar
- SPoon rear tower strut bar
- Benen front lower tie bar
- Benen front tri-pod
- Energy Suspension rear trailing arm bushings
- Energy Suspension hyper flex system (Master set)
- EM Racing C-Pillar Tie Bar
Edit: - Camber -2

[SilverGT5783]

so even the s techs suck or just the basics? because i keep hearing that tein in general sucks.

[Transcend]

so even the s techs suck or just the basics? because i keep hearing that tein in general sucks.
They are of the lower-line, mass produced products.

Tein itself is not a bad company but stuff from them sucks unless you're willing to take out the money and get some of their better products. If you want a non-adjustable there are plenty of tried and true combinations that result in a setup that is marginally better than a Tein Basic or something involving Tein S-Techs.

[StaticX27]

Just incase people weren't aware, fully stiff shocks does not mean the best handling. I don't understand why people put their shocks that high. If you go fully soft, you're gonna wear your shocks out faster, and if you go fully stiff, you can burst your valves from the pressure. Thats why people pay big bucks for suspension tuning. But ey, if some of you like going around on back braking suspension, who am I to argue? I daily drove my FD on tuned Tein SuperDrifts and while harsh, it was drivable on crappy roads.

[SilverGT5783]

They are of the lower-line, mass produced products.

Tein itself is not a bad company but stuff from them sucks unless you're willing to take out the money and get some of their better products. If you want a non-adjustable there are plenty of tried and true combinations that result in a setup that is marginally better than a Tein Basic or something involving Tein S-Techs.
well i plan on getting some koni yellows so what springs would you suggest ?
i dont want to buy s techs if they suck i want to get a good set up

[Cookie]

well i plan on getting some koni yellows so what springs would you suggest ?
i dont want to buy s techs if they suck i want to get a good set up

Swift

[Transcend]

Swift
Or Ground Controls (they source their springs from Eibach)

[StaticX27]

Eibach is good happy stuff.

Swift is as well.

[Transcend]

Eibach is good happy stuff.

Swift is as well.
Although it can be argued that SWIFT is more happy :D

[Cookie]

Swift
Or Ground Controls (they source their springs from Eibach)

Good point, which reminds me, need to make a call or two to Eibach. :faint:

[clarionguy]

I had my tein springs on for about a year to a year and half...

Oh yea, take note that I have a TRD rear sway bar, so that makes the ride quality a touch more stiff.

I really do not think springs will wear out in a noticable factor for a long time unless its reached an improper spring threshold ...

[Transcend]

I had my tein springs on for about a year to a year and half...

Oh yea, take note that I have a TRD rear sway bar, so that makes the ride quality a touch more stiff.

I really do not think springs will wear out in a noticable factor for a long time unless its reached an improper spring threshold ...
That's what you think. But remember Tein springs are more mass produced than anything else out there. Because of that the factor of inconsistencies are higher. And Tein doesn't give you a million mile warranty on their product... should they not perform to specs.

[neological]

Buy Hypercoils or swifts. Swifts are thinner and lighter but Hypercoil will give you a stupid long warranty. Both will make custom rate springs.

[Rcelicagts]

do koni yellows have different models? I see diference in pricing and see the same Part #. can you guys tell me if these are the same? http://www.racinglab.com/tokospsh.html
http://www.prostreetonline.com/a/toyota_koni-yellow-shocks.asp

[Transcend]

do koni yellows have different models?


I see diference in pricing and see the same Part #.
:rofl:

[CleanLinen]

I like my Tein's but then again mine is not daily driven.

[deltaB]

can you guys tell me if these are the same? They are both right. 140/150 a corner or 600/set
They can make up for different prices on shipping.
If there is a 10-20 dollar difference on the order, I'd go with the one with the better reputation. Or one that made a positive impact on the celica community.
ΔB

[Rcelicagts]

They are both right. 140/150 a corner or 600/set
They can make up for different prices on shipping.
If there is a 10-20 dollar difference on the order, I'd go with the one with the better reputation. Or one that made a positive impact on the celica community.
ΔB
thanks..... apriciated

[xero]

contacted ground control about custom shortened and valved Koni Yellows with Eibach Sportlines. I will post up what they say about the cost of the package if interested.

[redbull]

^ please. The next set I get I want shortened and valved. This would give me a ball park.

[Transcend]

contacted ground control about custom shortened and valved Koni Yellows with Eibach Sportlines. I will post up what they say about the cost of the package if interested.
Nice!

+1

[MicaCeli]

^ please. The next set I get I want shortened and valved. This would give me a ball park.


valved? with what? Shortened koni's will cost you about 250 per corner. Double adjustables will run around 400 per corner or so.

[xero]

have them revalved to work better with a specific shocks spring rate and the ride quality and what not that your looking for.

[redbull]

^ please. The next set I get I want shortened and valved. This would give me a ball park.


valved? with what? Shortened koni's will cost you about 250 per corner. Double adjustables will run around 400 per corner or so.

I want to run very high spring rates for autocross which I will have them valved to match. I

[deltaB]

...I'm thinking at least 500 rear 350 front...The pillowball teinSuper Streets are 504R, 392F. That's close.

From the Truechoice Catalog:
"Phase Two+
Shock Absorber Shortening Solution for maximum
lowering without compromising shock absorber travel.
If you plan on lowering your vehicle in excess of two
inches from stock ride height this is an essential
modification to prevent shock absorber bottoming and
suspension damage. Pictured are...
Price - Phase 2+
$165.00 per shock
which includes a competition bump rubber."
I'm going to assume that is $165 over the base phase 2 coilover (which happen to have a celica listing)
Of course, Truechoice=Koni. I probably didn't need to say that.
ΔB

[xero]

link?

[redbull]

I believe it this
http://www.truechoice.com/

[xero]

I got nothing out of that website. Why does Truechoice=Koni? Nice to see Truechoice is in Ohio, I can take a ride down there!

[redbull]

on the bottom of that page is a link to this page http://www.truechoicekoniracingservices.com I just have the Truechoice page saved.

[deltaB]

...Why does Truechoice=Koni?...From the koniracing.com site:
"In addition to the KONI Service Center in Hebron, KY, there are three KONI authorized rebuild facilities in North America. They are TrueChoice in Hilliard, OH (800-388-8783), Pro Parts West in Canoga Park, CA (818-888-8904), and Performance Shock Inc. @ Infineon Raceway in Sonoma, CA(800-965-5664)."
and from truechoiceracingservices.com:
"Since 1987, Truechoice Koni Racing Services has always had the fundamental belief that any success we would attain comes from the judgement of you, the satisfied racing customer. Couple that basic belief in pleasing the customer with the highest quality name brands in suspension components, KONI and EIBACH, and you have the foundation on which our reputation has been built.

We know racers and we know they like to have every opportunity to be competitive. That is the Truechoice KONI Racing Services goal - to lend the racer the support they need in making sure their suspension obtains maximum performance. The goal is carried out through the products and services we offer. As an authorized KONI Shock Absorber distributer and factory service center since day one, we believe KONI has always stayed true to their hard-earned reputation for high performance derived from quality and advanced technical design...Shop us anytime on the web, or visit our technical service shop facility in Hilliard, Ohio, or our KONI PACIFIC tech shop at Infineon (Sears Point) Raceway in California..."
My price quote was from the 2005 catalog. Here's the link to the 2007: http://www.truechoicekoniracingservices.com/2007_TKRS_Catalog.pdf
ΔB

[Celicasaur]

So nobody here thinks eibach sportlines would be a great combo with the koni yellows?

[clarionguy]

I believe for handling perspective.. its about the best combination .. Eibach sportlines and Koni yellows..

I drive too much in the city and did not put on sportlines .. but used my tein s techs... The sportlines are way too low for my preference in the city..
But they look the best and give better handling...
Are you from london ontario?
I have a set of the Sportlines if you want to buy them?

[Celicasaur]

Ahhh right, I feel you ^^^ clears things up a bit I suppose.

No, I'm from London, as in, United Kingdom - London, lol (I already have Sportlines also :))

[deltaB]

So nobody here thinks eibach sportlines would be a great combo with the koni yellows?
I believe for handling perspective.. its about the best combination .. Eibach sportlines and Koni yellows..I drive too much in the city and did not put on sportlines .. The sportlines are way too low for my preference in the city..I think they would make a great combo. I especially like the rates although the rideheight might be a little low. For me I'd like the whiteline. They like to keep a lot of travel in the suspension but the rates are about the same as the sportlines.
I sent an email to truechoice. Their response was that normally they'll include the ProKit springs but they will pair the Sportlines with the konis sport yellows too. There is no difference in the shocks in either package.
ΔB

[StaticX27]

That and Tein springs tend to sag after about 2-5k miles :p

[xero]

Just to bump this tread. I just called True Choice. What they said is that the phase one, all that it is, is the Koni Yellow inserts and either Eibach Sportline springs or the Pro-kit springs. They aren't customized in any way and they arn't assembled.

I can get everything from Summit racing for $799.95 with free shipping (any which way I would have to pay Ohio tax since Summit Racing is in Ohio as well as True Choice) where as if I were to go with True Choice it's $867.00 plus shipping.
I asked about shortening the shaft for the Sportlines so the shock doesn't ware out prematurely because it's so low of a drop. He (the mans name was Bill) said however it comes from Koni is what the Phase 1 kits shocks are. They only start shortening and valving the Koni's at Phase 4. I asked if there was a warranty for the kit since they know the Konis's will fail sooner because the Sportlines are so low. He said that they come with Koni's defect warranty and if the shock blows oh well.

Eibach page on Summit Racing (http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+400280+4294839913+4294907680+4 294907674+115+4294924653)
Koni Sport page on Summit Racing (http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+400387+4294907680+4294907674+1 15+4294924653)

[b18b1tranny]

You should get a camber kit regardless and get an alignment after your suspension settles. That way you can correct your off-toe angle and have your tires last longer.

Negative camber is not what kills tire life. It's an off toe angle that does it.

Pos/Neg amber is what makes you lose control on high speed straits.

adding negative cambers increases the toe in. Actually correcting your camber bring back the toe in to normal values, not the best. but normal. Still a bit correction can be done, on the celica it's very easy anyways.

You seem to state that he must not correct negative camber, just toe in, I hope that's not what you wanted to say.

[Celicasaur]

I asked about shortening the shaft for the Sportlines so the shock doesn't ware out prematurely because it's so low of a drop. He (the mans name was Bill) said however it comes from Koni is what the Phase 1 kits shocks are. They only start shortening and valving the Koni's at Phase 4. I asked if there was a warranty for the kit since they know the Konis's will fail sooner because the Sportlines are so low. He said that they come with Koni's defect warranty and if the shock blows oh well.

Nice info there dude :)

(and tut tut, you stole my sig layout :chuckles: )

[deltaB]

My math processor must be broke. I get 903.75 with those links.
Shox.com has them for 795 http://www.shox.com/. I don't know what shipping is.
ΔB
I can get everything from Summit racing for $799.95 with free shipping
Eibach page on Summit Racing (http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+400280+4294839913+4294907680+4 294907674+115+4294924653)
Koni Sport page on Summit Racing (http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+400387+4294907680+4294907674+1 15+4294924653)

[xero]

Nice info there dude :)

(and tut tut, you stole my sig layout :chuckles: )
Or did you steal it from me? :AF: You know that saying with copys and flattery

[xero]

My math processor must be broke. I get 903.75 with those links.
Shox.com has them for 795 http://www.shox.com/. I don't know what shipping is.
ΔB
I dunno maybe I can't add?