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View Full Version : Horsepower Wars, *except* Toyota?


voidhawk
06-07-2002, 08:21 AM
I found this article on the news wire service, about how all car makers are trying to beef up their cars' performance in the US market. Honda is bringing out 240 hp minivans, and the word celica is nowhere in sight :angry: .


Horsepower wars: automakers soup up staid vehicles
DETROIT, Michigan (AFP) Jun 07, 2002
Honda's popular Odyssey minivan is about as mainstream a vehicle as any on the US market, but these days it's packing a punch: "240 horseys," in the words of the marketing men.

That's as much as many muscle cars boasted only a few years ago, and while Honda officials shy away from talk that might alarm their soccer mom customers, it clearly reflects a growing trend in the US marketplace.

Virtually everywhere you look, automakers are beefing up performance.

Cars may be a means of getting from A to B, but in the words of industry-watcher David Cole "functionality is a whole lot better when you're having fun at the same time."

Honda recently reintroduced a more powerful version of its staid little Civic subcompact.

The SI is aimed at young buyers who aren't willing to settle for the "stone ponies" they could buy on a budget.

Other manufacturers, such as Mazda, Mitsubishi, and Toyota are pursuing similar strategies, as is Ford, which scored a solid success with its SVT Focus -- a high-performance version of its popular compact car.

DaimlerChrysler's Chrysler Group is going after the youthful performance crowd with a new spin-off of the hot-selling PT Cruiser, dubbed the PT Turbo.

In the high-end sports car segment, Chrysler is also rolling out a second-generation Dodge Viper later this year.

Already the fastest American-made sports car, with a 450-horsepower V-10 under its hood, the 2003 roadster will get 50 more horsepower, putting it into one of the world's most elite clubs.

Not that many years ago, carmakers struggled to pack 300 horsepower under the hood, noted Cole, director of the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Now they strive for 400.

The muscle cars of the '60s often boasted more horsepower, but all-too-typically played fast and loose with the figures. More recent calculations are more accurate.

The Viper was the first domestic model to hit the 400-horsepower mark, though that figure has become commonplace among high-line European brands, such as Porsche, Ferrari, Mercedes-Benz and BMW.

Now the race is on to top the 500 mark. And according to research conducted by both the California consulting firm, AutoPacific Inc., and the Internet "e-zine," TheCarConnection.com, at least 20 and possibly as many as 25 different models will break the 500-hp barrier by mid-decade.

What's notable about this new performance shootout is the fact that it is not limited to sports cars and supercars, points out AutoPacific analyst Nick Twork.

"With the rare exception of cars such as the Porsche Carerra GT, these aren't race car," he notes.

"And only a few of these are traditional, high-performance sports cars. A lot of these are sedans," starting out with an emphasis on luxury, then adding plenty of muscle.

The US market is the world's largest for high-performance cars, says analyst David Healy of Burnham Securities.

That might surprise some in light of the looser speed laws in Europe, "but it's a reflection of our (cheaper) fuel prices," said Healy.

The US consumer may buy them, but Europe currently is and will likely remain the largest supplier of vehicles with more than 500 horsepower.

These include classic high-performance machines, such as the Ferrari, with its 515-horsepower 575M engine and the upcoming, 650-hp Formula One-inspired

But there's also a new generation of players. Mercedes-Benz' revived Maybach marque will hit the road with two ultra-luxury sedans boasting a minimum 550-hp.

At the top of the power chart is the revived Bugatti brand.

It's readying a super or high-performance car dubbed Veyron, which will deliver an estimated 1001 horsepower. The Volkswagen-owned carmaker expects to deliver just one hand-built Veyron a week, at one million dollars a pop.

Whether you're talking about a 550-horsepower Bentley GT Coupe or a 240-horsepower 2002 Honda Odyssey minivan, not everyone is pleased with the direction automakers are taking.

The US insurance industry for one has openly and aggressively tried to slow the horsepower race.

The next-generation Chevrolet Corvette, codenamed C6, likely won't exceed 500-hp because "it would make insurance rates unaffordable," says a senior General Motors product development executive, who declined to be mentioned by name.

A limited-edition model, the next version of the Corvette Z06, may top 500-hp, however, in order to maintain the brand's bragging rights.

Fuel prices pose another potential challenge to the performance push.

But even a surge to two dollars a gallon, or more (it's currently bubbling under two dollars a gallon in the Midwestern United States) likely wouldn't shut the race down, cautions Cole, because this class of buyers is perhaps the most affluent and least cost-sensitive of any.

Then there's the issue of fuel economy.

The US Congress vetoed efforts to raise the current average fuel-economy standard for passenger cars (currently fixed at 27.5 miles per gallon) earlier this year.

But in Sacramento, California, state lawmakers are debating a strict new measure that would allow the California Air Resources Board to set limits on carbon dioxide emissions for the first time.

Carbon dioxide is believed to be one of the causes of global warming; it's also inextricably linked to vehicle mileage.

The lower the fuel economy, the more the carbon dioxide, so any limits on the gas would effectively mandate higher mileage which many of the most powerful engines would have trouble complying with.

But barring such steps -- and CARB has long been the only state agency granted the right to set emissions standards stricter than federal guidelines -- most analysts believe the horsepower wars will continue.

djm221
06-07-2002, 08:35 AM
Um, 7th Gen Celica vs. 6th Gen. Up to 180 HP from 135HP. Where have you been. It's just Toyota did it a little earlier than others in this market, but that was only 2 years ago. The Celica can still hold it's own with all the other cars in it's class, and whoops up on several of them.

t2000gts
06-07-2002, 08:54 AM
every magazine that's compared the celica to one of the 'new' cars has said that the celica runs away from everything on a track and in virtually every performance category (the only area where it's close is straight line).

voidhawk
06-07-2002, 08:55 AM
ture - guess I was hoping for the 2.0 l version of the zz that's been rumored ... sigh.

racinjason
06-07-2002, 09:20 AM
Voidhawk: I didn't see anything about the WRX, Protege5 Mazdaspeed addition, GTI, RSX, Lancer EVO VII, 350Z, RX8 or most of the performance compact cars. Big deal. Only thing is they don't plan to be anywhere over 280 hp for thier top models including the EVo, 350Z, and RX8, or even the WRX STi! Most of the mustang configs will be at least 300hp. Including the Mach series mustangs with about 320, and the Cobra with almost 400 ponies. Vettes used to only have about 250hp back in the 80's Now the Z06 puts down 400+. Say goodbye to affordable insurance.

Camry2000
06-07-2002, 10:09 AM
If people wanted a 250HP Toyota minivan, get a Sienna and SC it. Yes even the Siennas have TRD SCs. :)

MarkyMark
06-07-2002, 10:18 AM
Toyota obviuosly doenst care for whatever reason, so screw em.

Pure Racer
06-07-2002, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by Camry2000
If people wanted a 250HP Toyota minivan, get a Sienna and SC it. Yes even the Siennas have TRD SCs. :)

Hahaha, cause half of Toyota's line up are Camry's!!! Let me think, Camry, Solara, Sienna, Avalon, Highlander, RX300 and ES300? Am I missing any?

Willis5050
06-07-2002, 12:59 PM
What about the weight wars? If the car is light you don't need as much power. The celica is very light for its class, and I think they were smart to keep it that way.

Camry2000
06-07-2002, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by Pure Racer


Hahaha, cause half of Toyota's line up are Camry's!!! Let me think, Camry, Solara, Sienna, Avalon, Highlander, RX300 and ES300? Am I missing any?

Tru dat! :)

t2000gts
06-08-2002, 08:54 AM
speaking of EVOs...didn't Hotchkis' Celica beat out the EVO VII in that handling comparison that's gonna be in the August issue? :)

z6joker9
06-09-2002, 01:03 AM
Originally posted by voidhawk
ture - guess I was hoping for the 2.0 l version of the zz that's been rumored ... sigh.

that's been rumored since the 7th gens came out....

Redline
06-09-2002, 01:57 AM
I think it would be cool if toyota made our cars even lighter! :)

t2000gts
06-09-2002, 08:40 AM
that's unlikely. look at how most celicas are squeaking/rattling themselves apart. stiff suspension + cheap, light interior matrials + public roads = bad.

toyota should offer TRD superchargers as options on Camrys and ES300s (same car/engine, no?). that would be HOT.

tool462
06-09-2002, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by Redline
I think it would be cool if toyota made our cars even lighter! :)

Seriously. They should just remove the body, take off two of the wheels and put the engine under the driver. It's a cool concept car of mine. There's a pic of it in my sig :D

Pure Racer
06-09-2002, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by t2000gts
that's unlikely. look at how most celicas are squeaking/rattling themselves apart. stiff suspension + cheap, light interior matrials + public roads = bad.

toyota should offer TRD superchargers as options on Camrys and ES300s (same car/engine, no?). that would be HOT.

They had the TRD Solara, do they still sell them or was it just a limited time?

VZV21
06-10-2002, 06:38 AM
ES300 had VVT-i, which the S/C was not made for. There are rumors of a S/C for the VVT-i engine.

THe TRD Solara, like the Camry, Celica, & Corolla, is a dealership-accessory package, not from the factory.

t2000gts
06-10-2002, 08:12 AM
Originally posted by VZV21
ES300 had VVT-i, which the S/C was not made for. There are rumors of a S/C for the VVT-i engine.

THe TRD Solara, like the Camry, Celica, & Corolla, is a dealership-accessory package, not from the factory.

aren't the engines in the camry, tacoma, tundra, etc. all VVT-i already? i thought Toyota put them in all their cars already.

Camry2000
06-10-2002, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by t2000gts


aren't the engines in the camry, tacoma, tundra, etc. all VVT-i already? i thought Toyota put them in all their cars already.

V6 Camrys still use the vanilla 1MZFE engine. The VVT-i 1MZFE is used in all the other models, ES300, Highlander, RX300, Avalon, ...etc.