C-One Underbrace

[Orijinalx]

orderd c-one front underbrace from kamispeed during the clearance sale and got them in today. Install was pretty simple and everything lined up very well! i didnt drive it to hard or anything because it's raining, but from what i can tell the car is a lot more stable and is very responsive. car feels a lot more flat too. Oh the only other suspension mod i have is Hypermotive rear strut bar, and i'm on 17x7 with goodyear eagle f1 A/S 215/45 (awesome tires). i did take a few pictures.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v372/jhlim87/SP_A0168.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v372/jhlim87/SP_A0169.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v372/jhlim87/1.jpg

the plastic underpanels do fit over the bars, so no cutting or removing was necessary.

OH and in the last picture you notice the bar next to the oil pan, the bracket is missing a screw. The screw didnt tap in right so i just removed it because it was going to fall out anyways, there are 2 other bolts holding on the bracket, so im hoping it will be fine.

[ekindbest]

all my screws went on perfectly.....and enjoy the bars. They're nice.

[slidr]

How would they provide any beneficial support?

Looks like the locations where they bolt up to are sturdy enough, and what type of force would they counteract since they are mounted the length of the car?

[aznkhaos]

those look nice..i thought about getting some for my car too..but too broke

[switchlanez]

Sick add-on, Jinho. Someone was telling me these make a difference. Think it was dammit_jill. Great to see your suspension coming along. C-ONE, ftw. :hitit:

[neological]

How would they provide any beneficial support?

Looks like the locations where they bolt up to are sturdy enough, and what type of force would they counteract since they are mounted the length of the car?
x2. i keep looking at them and i can't see physics wise what force they would counteract. any torsional load on the car would seem to be unaffected by those bars, the only way I could see those being useful is if the car drove sideways, like a crab.

They also look highly dangerous in a crash because they would effectively defeat the front crumple zones by directly reinforcing them. I would not want to drive around the street in a car with those installed.

[Jintei]

x2. i keep looking at them and i can't see physics wise what force they would counteract. any torsional load on the car would seem to be unaffected by those bars, the only way I could see those being useful is if the car drove sideways, like a crab.

They also look highly dangerous in a crash because they would effectively defeat the front crumple zones by directly reinforcing them. I would not want to drive around the street in a car with those installed.

I kinda agree with that.
Anyway, do you know if it will work with C-one underpanel?

[anti-JDM]

x2. i keep looking at them and i can't see physics wise what force they would counteract. any torsional load on the car would seem to be unaffected by those bars, the only way I could see those being useful is if the car drove sideways, like a crab.

They also look highly dangerous in a crash because they would effectively defeat the front crumple zones by directly reinforcing them. I would not want to drive around the street in a car with those installed.

I kinda agree with that.
Anyway, do you know if it will work with C-one underpanel?

:chuckles:

[Throttle]

Does anyone have these installed with the Moroso oil pan? I have been wanting to buy these for a while but Kamispeed could not tell me if they fit with the Moroso oil pan.

[ekindbest]

I kinda agree with that.
Anyway, do you know if it will work with C-one underpanel?


Yes it does. I have both installed

[wtcnbrwndo4u]

I kinda agree with that.
Anyway, do you know if it will work with C-one underpanel?
A little ironic there.... :chuckles:

[neological]

Meh, some people just think they will never get into an accident.

Congratulations on installing a part that defeats the most basic safety feature in your car besides seat belts. After a 25mph front-on collision you'll look like James Caan in "Misery."

[Lo_Pro_Life]

or youll relize that even though it is re-enforcing the cars front is very beneficial.

say you car dosent have the support bars. you wreck someone hits there breaks your whole front end crumples they get a busted trunk latch and a tore up Styrofoam chunk and there plastic bumper gets a whole in it. you get frame damage and all kinds of ****. now im not saying C-ones brace is GODLY but just get the concept of this scenario. ok now with those bars installed and your "Crush zone" as you say eliminated your front end is now STIFFER and STRONGER and when you hit that car from the back you will get significantly less damage on the lower end attached to the frame by the braces and that stiffness will transfer to other parts of the car so you will get most likey minimal damage and if you have other parts installed that re-enforce the front end you will trash the car you hit because there car will give in to force as yours will RESIST IT and as for the person inside seat belts my friend there helpful not to mention almost everyone rides with there driver seat angles against the floor so your bucket seated and since the celica has cockpit seating your feet support you from flying thru your window not to mention if its bad enough our nifty SRS airbags will go off and save us so i belive the C-One Underbraces are VERY beneficial.

"Crush Zone" on a celica consists of Your Plastic bumper the styro behind that thats as stiff as concrete and then thats it you have frame and bye bye celica :fawk:

[lpphreakx06]

At least it's pretty.

[switchlanez]

...front end is now STIFFER and STRONGER and when you hit that car from the back you will get significantly less damage on the lower end attached to the frame by the braces and that stiffness will transfer to other parts of the car so you will get most likey minimal damage

...there car will give in to force as yours will RESIST IT

"Crush Zone" on a celica consists of Your Plastic bumper the styro behind that thats as stiff as concrete and then thats

What you said makes sense. Are you a mechanical engineer?

Anyone taken advanced statics and dynamics taking multiple forces under consideration? I haven't. But creating a free body diagram is the only real way you can solve this problem. I think it all depends on the properties of the object you hit and the angle at which you hit it. Could be beneficial in some cases, not so in others. The underbrace helps in the case where most of the impact force is contained in the lower frame and doesn't "curl up" towards the cabin. And I would think it's more difficult to tip over a Celica on the point of impact so impact would be contained on the lower frame and not transfer up into the cabin in an "ideal" impact. But how often is "ideal?"

For a good "crumple zone," all components still have to be stiff so long as the cabin is the MOST STIFF compared its surrounding reinforcements. And if forces of impact EASILY curl up over the now stiffer lower frame (due to the underbrace) and towards the cabin, then that could effectively compromise the crumple zone. So force would be transferred toward the cabin.

But overall, I think the underbrace wouldn't cause a significant safety issue. Other parts of the chassis will still crumple before impact reaches the cabin. But I'd like to take a better look under there to be sure.

[Orijinalx]

hmmm, wow i never thought about the safety reasons behind this bar.. i guess the cusco under bar would've been better :O

[neological]

or youll relize that even though it is re-enforcing the cars front is very beneficial.

say you car dosent have the support bars. you wreck someone hits there breaks your whole front end crumples they get a busted trunk latch and a tore up Styrofoam chunk and there plastic bumper gets a whole in it. you get frame damage and all kinds of ****. now im not saying C-ones brace is GODLY but just get the concept of this scenario. ok now with those bars installed and your "Crush zone" as you say eliminated your front end is now STIFFER and STRONGER and when you hit that car from the back you will get significantly less damage on the lower end attached to the frame by the braces and that stiffness will transfer to other parts of the car so you will get most likey minimal damage and if you have other parts installed that re-enforce the front end you will trash the car you hit because there car will give in to force as yours will RESIST IT and as for the person inside seat belts my friend there helpful not to mention almost everyone rides with there driver seat angles against the floor so your bucket seated and since the celica has cockpit seating your feet support you from flying thru your window not to mention if its bad enough our nifty SRS airbags will go off and save us so i belive the C-One Underbraces are VERY beneficial.

"Crush Zone" on a celica consists of Your Plastic bumper the styro behind that thats as stiff as concrete and then thats it you have frame and bye bye celica :fawk:

That isn't true at all. parts of the bodywork and frame are actually notched to they will crumple in a predictable manner. the entire front part of the car is meant to collapse in an impact. The bars would simply take the force from the bumper and directly push them through the firewall.

SRS airbags don't exactly help when your legs are crushed.

BTW, just about everything you wrote is idiotic.

[MicaCeli]

or youll relize that even though it is re-enforcing the cars front is very beneficial.

say you car dosent have the support bars. you wreck someone hits there breaks your whole front end crumples they get a busted trunk latch and a tore up Styrofoam chunk and there plastic bumper gets a whole in it. you get frame damage and all kinds of ****. now im not saying C-ones brace is GODLY but just get the concept of this scenario. ok now with those bars installed and your "Crush zone" as you say eliminated your front end is now STIFFER and STRONGER and when you hit that car from the back you will get significantly less damage on the lower end attached to the frame by the braces and that stiffness will transfer to other parts of the car so you will get most likey minimal damage and if you have other parts installed that re-enforce the front end you will trash the car you hit because there car will give in to force as yours will RESIST IT and as for the person inside seat belts my friend there helpful not to mention almost everyone rides with there driver seat angles against the floor so your bucket seated and since the celica has cockpit seating your feet support you from flying thru your window not to mention if its bad enough our nifty SRS airbags will go off and save us so i belive the C-One Underbraces are VERY beneficial.

"Crush Zone" on a celica consists of Your Plastic bumper the styro behind that thats as stiff as concrete and then thats it you have frame and bye bye celica :fawk:

That isn't true at all. parts of the bodywork and frame are actually notched to they will crumple in a predictable manner. the entire front part of the car is meant to collapse in an impact. The bars would simply take the force from the bumper and directly push them through the firewall.

SRS airbags don't exactly help when your legs are crushed.

BTW, just about everything you wrote is idiotic.


I agree.

[Jesse IL]

At least it's pretty.

That's all it is. JDM bling. Hey, maybe it'll get you some points at a car show :rolleyes: :jerkoff:
i guess the cusco under bar would've been better :O

That's right because the Cusco bar actually is a good design, unlike these bars. The front mounting point of the lower control arm is relatively not stiff. The Cusco bar spans the two control arm mounts stiffening the whole structure. Uunder extreme cornering, the front mounting points try and deflect inwards and the Cusco brace prevents that from happening. With these bars, when the control arms try and deflect inwards, it will try and put tension in these bars. Unfortunately the bars themselves don't take the loads, the fasteners do. Any engineer worth a damn knows that's a bad idea (especially when one of the bolts is missing).

Moral of the story is that you could have spent $80 on the Cusco brace, which is still JDM if that's your thing and ended up with a far superior product.

[fastcelicagt22]

Those bars arent going through the firewall in a crash. If anything they will bend where their angled. Most likely those bars will bend at near the same impact rate as the rest of the stuff in the designed crumple zone. Looks to me that they are designed to minimize torsion when cornering in the front end. You can see that there is a middle bar but wide open unsupported areas to the right and left. I doubt that alone the bars make a hugely noticable difference, but when combined with other suspension mods they are probably of good benefit.

Im wonering if you can still put a cusco bar on your car with these on. Anybody know?

FYI - If I were you Id get the appropriate tap and fix the whole and put another bolt in there.

[Joey03_VVT-I]

hmmm, wow i never thought about the safety reasons behind this bar.. i guess the cusco under bar would've been better :O
I agree. I was planning on getting that C-ONE front underbrace too. Since my CELICA is daily driven, Im not going to get it. :( At least I get to save up money for something else. :D

[MicaCeli]

Stiffening the front end of the Celica is a bad thing for cornering traction. It might feel all nice a stiff while you are driving but the front end needs a certain amount of flex since the strut setup realy does not give you much suspension play.

Basicaly if you make the front end too stiff you will get wheel lift while in a corner, this translates to no traction and with an open diff you will not be able to get the power to the ground and the car will understeer like mad.

[Orijinalx]

well, atleast now there is some real information about this bar. i did research before i bought it, but i didnt find anything about it really, so i just gave it a shot. Atleast now other people interested in this bar will know what they are buying. And to FASTCELICAGT22, i read some people having both cusco and the c-one, so it is possible. oh and i didnt buy it just for the whole JDM thing.
i appreciate all the comments!

[slidr]

or youll relize that even though it is re-enforcing the cars front is very beneficial.

say you car dosent have the support bars. you wreck someone hits there breaks your whole front end crumples they get a busted trunk latch and a tore up Styrofoam chunk and there plastic bumper gets a whole in it. you get frame damage and all kinds of ****. now im not saying C-ones brace is GODLY but just get the concept of this scenario. ok now with those bars installed and your "Crush zone" as you say eliminated your front end is now STIFFER and STRONGER and when you hit that car from the back you will get significantly less damage on the lower end attached to the frame by the braces and that stiffness will transfer to other parts of the car so you will get most likey minimal damage and if you have other parts installed that re-enforce the front end you will trash the car you hit because there car will give in to force as yours will RESIST IT and as for the person inside seat belts my friend there helpful not to mention almost everyone rides with there driver seat angles against the floor so your bucket seated and since the celica has cockpit seating your feet support you from flying thru your window not to mention if its bad enough our nifty SRS airbags will go off and save us so i belive the C-One Underbraces are VERY beneficial.

"Crush Zone" on a celica consists of Your Plastic bumper the styro behind that thats as stiff as concrete and then thats it you have frame and bye bye celica :fawk:


BTW, just about everything you wrote is idiotic.


Agreed. The idea of a crumple zone is to absord as much of the force of impact as possible.

If you strengthen up a crumple zone, you are only transfering that force to somewhere else like the cabin.


Crash dynamics aside, I think the point that is being missed is that people have no idea what they are installing on their cars half the time.

[fastcelicagt22]

Yeah you deffinetly do not want to make the front end too stiff. This product obviously doesnt have that problem. Front wheel drive cars do need a balanced stiffness in regards to the front/rear suspension setup.

[Lo_Pro_Life]

Stiffening the front end of the Celica is a bad thing for cornering traction. It might feel all nice a stiff while you are driving but the front end needs a certain amount of flex since the strut setup realy does not give you much suspension play.

Basicaly if you make the front end too stiff you will get wheel lift while in a corner, this translates to no traction and with an open diff you will not be able to get the power to the ground and the car will understeer like mad.


ok call ferdinand porsche and tell him that and while your at it you can tell his daughter carerra to suck your dick cus you know suspensions.

:fawk:

[Lo_Pro_Life]

im not sure but i think there at the "Le Mans" meeting for this year. :eslap:

[euromotorsports]

I have the Cone and the Cusco actually on my car, I installed it a couple days ago... actually feels tighter up front might be my imagination, but it does feel sharper turning and such. Ill have to drive it around longer to see though

[leppardized]

I've got this and a TRD rear brace and comp sways, this really keeps the feeling in the wheels when your getting on it. I noticed a lot less flex in the front end, and when paired with the rear brace the car transitions into over-steer a lot smoother now. I highly recommend this piece, and its also works with the underpanel from C-one too!

Mod grade: A

[CID]

Blah, blah, bladidy blah crumple zone blah. I don't recall the actual cabin of any car designed to be a crumple zone, all the crumpling needs to happen everywhere else but the cars cabin :chuckles: Suspension set ups will work better on a stable platform rather that a flexing unibody. We've been putting that same type of bracing on muscle cars since the 80's. A full roll cage will do the same thing to a unibody btw.

[Eric_TS]

One question was left open.
Will it fit with a moroso oil pan and cusco bar ?

[bionictony]

tapping screw into the frame doesn't sound right. you should use nuts/bolt. is there room to fit nuts behind the frame?

[lowredcruzr]

as soon as my moroso oil pan gets here i'll let you know if it fits with the bars or not

[Throttle]

as soon as my moroso oil pan gets here i'll let you know if it fits with the bars or not

Excellent, maybe I'll finally get an answer after all this time!

[Gtsjeg04]

It wont on that one side