How do you race an Auto?

where do you start if your on an auto and going to race? N, D, L, 2????

[mr2crazyguy]

You drop the tranny and put a stick in :D lol. J/k. you can do a neutral drop (rev to launch RPM then drop into drive) but not only can that ruin the trans it can cause wheel spin so just be generous with it. The only other thing I could say is either a get a launch computer or just pedal to the floor board and hope your faster than he is.

[2002GT_Celica]

Do not do a neutral drop. I repeat do not do a neutral drop!

[mr2crazyguy]

Yeah I shouldn't have suggested it... It's not pretty when valve bodies or actuators bust in the trans. (I don't think the dealer would cover it either)

[chameleon]

2002GT_Celica is right, one good neutral drop can destroy your transmition. It's not like it just wears your tranny out faster, litterally one neutral drop can break things, so you should definately not start out in neutral during a race.

The best way to launch an auto is by power braking it. To do this, you put the transmition in gear and give the car some gas while using the brakes with your other foot to hold your car in place. The more gas you can give the car without the wheels spinning the better. Then when you are ready to take off, just let off the brakes and floor it. This will give you a much better launch. Just so you know, doing this is some what bad for your transmition because it will build up a lot of heat in it, but as long as you don't do it for a long time, or do it really often, you should never have any transmition problems that arose from doing this.

I'm not sure whether or not you would be better off just leaving the car in drive or if you would benafit from putting it in the lowest gear and manually shifting through the gears during a race. Usually you will be a little faster if you manually shift because you can hold the car in gear a little longer and rev a little higher than the car would if the transmition were left in drive. To test this, try putting the car in drive and flooring it to see how high the car reves before it shifts and compare that to how high the car revs if you put it in the lowest gear and floor it. If it revs higher when you put it in the lowest gear, you should manually shift during a race.

[po9i]

put it in D turn o/d off and put your foot to the floor....

[xi KiNG ix]

Originally posted by po9i
put it in D turn o/d off and put your foot to the floor.... :stupid:

[2002GT_Celica]

Does turning overdrive off really do anything? I always thought it made the car go slower.

[h0l0grafik]

take o/d off, it will make ur car faster, believe me i have tested it and so have my friends.
nope, i got an auto and it keeps rpm levels higher. overdrive saves gas by maintaining lower rpm levels therefore saving gas and improving mileage. yes, also I agree - DO NOT neutral and throw into drive, it doesn't work and it will screw ur car up. here is a technique i was told from a real street racer mechanic:
use the brake technique- hold down brake firmly and rev using accelerator-IN DRIVE
at takeoff u shouldnt peel out but take off ahead, at your own discretion when the car has shifted to 2-3rd gear, throw it in "2"
and you will have much more response and power... then when u reach about 60-80 MPH shift up to DRIVE and floor it

*** release accelerator when shifting gears ***
i've heard of this technique taking out manual drivers that don't know how to race, its just you have to become acquainted with your car and engine. if you know exactly when to shift, you will have the a chance... i hope.

[2002GT_Celica]

I have shifted manually without lifting off the accelerator, and by shifting I mean shifting up. I have downshifted to L from 2 a couple times, but I was well off the gas.

[celwin]

Yeah turning o/d off cuts off the 4th gear. Makes the auto accelerates faster. The best chance an auto have is to start from a roll. From a roll ~40mph the auto gts is not bad at all.

[h0l0grafik]

dont downshift to l...too low, believe me its not a good idea, it works better my method, i've raced many times before.

[The Game]

Best way to race an auto:

"Off a cliff!!!" -Yakkosmurf

:chuckles:

[h0l0grafik]

not funny the game...go watch fake wrestling

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

No Fighting!!!

I like it in 2nd with OD off.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by blcelicaboy
where do you start if your on an auto and going to race? ????
You start from a stop and go nowhere fast...

[chameleon]

I don't think that turning O/D off will do anything. Turning off over drive will just not allow the transmition to shift into it's final gear. The reason alot of cars have buttons and things to turn it off is because you are supposed to turn it off when you are going up a steep hill because the transmition will be really strained when held in the tall overdriven final gear. But thats all over drive is, it's the last gear that the car shifts into. It doesn't effect any of the other gears.

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

When ur in 3rd though you get higher revs. With OD on in 3rd it shifts to forth after 4000rpm.

[h0l0grafik]

yea darkstar is right, i tested that theory out, cuz i thought o/d was the same (for hills and steep climbs) but it fact keeps your rpms up higher and gives more of a response and "pull" i noticed. engine is also louder, which could mean more power produced...? darkstar - you got an auto?
to all the auto-haters---> at least we can't stall hehe :?:

[chameleon]

hmm, must be some of that new toyota technology at work.

[Griffin]

OVER Drive - as opposed to Under drive - in other words gear multiplication instead of reduction. Lets the engine rev slower when the car is at higher speeds but since you make less torque (your lower in the power band) you accelerate slower.

Griffin

[mr2crazyguy]

to those with autos can you downshift for a corner?

heeltoe downshift while threshold braking and smoothly apply throttle to the corner exit without some economy prog'd computer trying to make up it's mind about whatever the hell it's gonna do? :chuckles:
with a manual YOU control the car and everything it does. In an auto....welll....

manuals can launch better than autos (wow whod've thought controlling a clutch so that it could slip could use 100% of tire traction to accel :wiggle: i.e. autos :rofl: manuals :burnout: )

manual equipped vehicles usually faster than autos...
when brakes fail how strong is that engine brake of yours
4 gears<5 gears<6 gears
automatics get less gas mileage
automatics can overheat in the snow
manuals easier to service
manuals less complicated thereby providing less to go wrong
autos last 60000 miles in pure stop and go driving
autos.......
the list would fill a page a whole page :rofl:

(tongue in cheek responsea please don't want flames)

[The Game]

Originally posted by xzast
to all the auto-haters---> at least we can't stall hehe :?:

I dont stall:thumbdown:

[chameleon]

I fail to see the need to point out every dissadvantage that an automatic has over a manual in a thread that was simply asking the best way to launch one. Was it to feel more superior? :rolleyes:

Automatics have advantages as well. Owners of automatic's are constantly and unnessasarily being put down on this board. Every one buys cars for different reasons and drives them in different ways/enviornments. In the end, I'm sure that just about every auto driver made the right choice for themselves when they got their car, even though it is a choice that every one on this board makes them regret. :nono:

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

Originally posted by chameleon
I fail to see the need to point out every dissadvantage that an automatic has over a manual in a thread that was simply asking the best way to launch one. Was it to feel more superior? :rolleyes:

Automatics have advantages as well. Owners of automatic's are constantly and unnessasarily being put down on this board. Every one buys cars for different reasons and drives them in different ways/enviornments. In the end, I'm sure that just about every auto driver made the right choice for themselves when they got their car, even though it is a choice that every one on this board makes them regret. :nono:

Thank you. Having an automatic means nothing. For me I had no choice I had to get an auto. I wanted the Celica so I got it!

yeap you are right. it's not like i have a choice because my parents are paying everything, i'm happy as long as i got a new car that looks cool. hey, why not take it when your parents pay for everything and you own it :P i say better get it or get nothing. at less it's better than driving your parents van or so hahahahha.

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

Originally posted by blcelicaboy
yeap you are right. it's not like i have a choice because my parents are paying everything, i'm happy as long as i got a new car that looks cool. hey, why not take it when your parents pay for everything and you own it :P i say better get it or get nothing. at less it's better than driving your parents van or so hahahahha.

wish my parents payed for my car...

[pinoyracer]

If you wanna race an auto, upgrade ur Torque Converter and get the Level Ten and let's see what's the positive or negative results.

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

Level 10 is good up to 400whp. So its a worthy upgrade.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by chameleon

Every one...drives them in different ways/enviornments.
Please elaborate on which "environments" an automatic would be better. My wife and I own three cars and drive in Houston traffic regularly. All three cars are manuals, and we wouldn't have it any other way. In fact, we're looking at buying her a Jaguar, and that will be a manual too. Automatics suck. Plain and simple.

LoLz, auto don't suck...here is a little story for you guys



manual: nice car you got there, how fast can it run?

auto: why don't you get in ur car and i get in mine and we go to that stop sign over there, then i'll show you. vrrmmm vrmmm vrmmm!! errrrrrrrrrr!!!!!

manual: dam he's fast, wtf....(thinking)----> dammit stupid clutch..

manual: dude your car is hell a fast. How you do it, any tips for me?

auto: yeah 3, first you step on the gas, second you step on the gas and third you step on the gas.

manual: WTF!!!!!!!! YOU CAR IS AN AUTO!!!! HELL NO!!! I LOST TO AN AUTO!!!!

[2002GT_Celica]

Originally posted by chameleon
I fail to see the need to point out every dissadvantage that an automatic has over a manual in a thread that was simply asking the best way to launch one. Was it to feel more superior? :rolleyes:

Automatics have advantages as well. Owners of automatic's are constantly and unnessasarily being put down on this board. Every one buys cars for different reasons and drives them in different ways/enviornments. In the end, I'm sure that just about every auto driver made the right choice for themselves when they got their car, even though it is a choice that every one on this board makes them regret. :nono:

Finally, someone who understands!

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

In LA, it takes me 40 minutes to get to work. I work 9 miles away and its all freeway. I got an Auto becaues I had a stick before and I wasnt planning on Modding the Celica. I ended up modding it and I still feel a lot more comfortable on the 2 hour drive to West Covina and thats 30 miles away. Traffic here sucks. But all you auto haters. Im sure there is an Auto Supra out there that would make you cry.

[JamesFlames]

man...i wasnt planning on modding my car, so i got an auto. It was more practical for me at the time. I wasnt into the whole "fix up your economy car(civic dx) to make it a race car" thing, even though Ive been around it for years. I was a hater. But after i got my own car for a little while, I caught this infectious disease. Its called (Cantmakeanautotwozeezeefast). I tried and tried but Its just incurable. The good doctors recomemded exhausts, intakes, but nothing worked. Then one wise one said to me. "Dont waste your money on mods for your auto, and you will be happy. Just wait a while, save your money and buy a silly looking car called a MKIV with something called a 2JZ-GTE. Then you may unleash your frustration of having an auto onto the streets.

hEHEHeheheh. Damn im so funny.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by blcelicaboy
LoLz, auto don't suck...here is a little story for you guys



manual: nice car you got there, how fast can it run?

auto: why don't you get in ur car and i get in mine and we go to that stop sign over there, then i'll show you. vrrmmm vrmmm vrmmm!! errrrrrrrrrr!!!!!

manual: dam he's fast, wtf....(thinking)----> dammit stupid clutch..

manual: dude your car is hell a fast. How you do it, any tips for me?

auto: yeah 3, first you step on the gas, second you step on the gas and third you step on the gas.

manual: WTF!!!!!!!! YOU CAR IS AN AUTO!!!! HELL NO!!! I LOST TO AN AUTO!!!!
Problem with this story is that it's a myth or there's details missing. There's no car where the automatic version will be faster than a manual in the same configuration. *celicaboy's bubble pops*

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by Oo DaRk StAr oO
Im sure there is an Auto Supra out there that would make you cry.
Auto Z28 would be the same way. But when you compare the 6-speed models of each car to the automatic... I also spent 2 years driving 40 miles one way to work in Houston traffic. Never even thought about getting an auto. I don't like having to worry about the car creeping forward when I rest my foot and take it off the brake...

that isn't any myth..if you wanna find out come to where i live (sac town) i'll show you the myth..hahahhaha

[The Game]

Originally posted by Oo DaRk StAr oO
Im sure there is an Auto Supra out there that would make you cry.

WOW!!! Youre comparing Supras to Celicas!!! :thumbup:

I bet youre upset that you got the auto in the first place, becasue you wouldve saved yourself a whole lot of money if you didnt!

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

im not upset I got what I could get. They had a 2001 Celica with 3 miles on the trailer. I had bought a Neon 3 months before and owed 14,000 on it... Toyota took my Neon and gave me the new Celica for 20,000 out the door. I could only get an Auto because all 5 Celicas on the lot were GTS Action Packages, and I didnt want a GTS because of the compression ratio.

[2002GT_Celica]

Originally posted by The Game


WOW!!! Youre comparing Supras to Celicas!!! :thumbup:

I bet youre upset that you got the auto in the first place, becasue you wouldve saved yourself a whole lot of money if you didnt!

Why do you feel it necessary to make such comments? Does it make you feel better about yourself to put down owners of automatics? Sure seems like it...

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

Say what you want an auto has the same capacity as a standard. All you need is a beefed up TC and Internals. 3000 bucks and you have a race prep Tranny.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by blcelicaboy
that isn't any myth..if you wanna find out come to where i live (sac town) i'll show you the myth..hahahhaha
Once again kid you're missing the point. Is a Z28 automatic faster than a 6-speed GTS...yes. The point, oh nieve one, is that if you compare two Z28s with the same mods, then manual will always be faster than the automatic (not talking about poor drivers here). Same would go for a GTS. I'm sorry you bought an auto, but you should stop dreaming that you're just as fast. Road course or drag strip, an automatic transmission is a big disadvantage. You might as well be hauling a trailer of bricks. Could I make the car hauling bricks faster than one that isn't? Sure, but I'd have to modifiy it more. Then it might do better at the tractor pull, but it still won't handle the road course as well. End of story.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by Oo DaRk StAr oO
Say what you want an auto has the same capacity as a standard. All you need is a beefed up TC and Internals. 3000 bucks and you have a race prep Tranny.
I'd had to design transmissions before. Even the best torque convertor will not provide the same response as a manual transmision and clutch. Also, as I've said before, you could make an auto faster in the 1/4 mile, but you're going to have to spend a lot of money, and you'll still suck at the road course. Spend the same amount of money on the manual version of the car (which was probably cheaper to begin with), and the automatic is still far behind. Sorry, no dice.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by Oo DaRk StAr oO
I didnt want a GTS because of the compression ratio.
You need to explain this one further. This is the stupidest excuse I've ever heard. The only way this makes sense, is if you want to put an SC or a turbo on the car. If you're going to do that, I wouldn't recommend using the stock ZZ internals anyway. Why not get the GTS with a G head engine so when you go with the forced induction, you'll have a free flowing head design to feed it. You're still not making much sense. You need to explain things a little better.

[WillyWonka]

The last time I manually shifted in a vehicle was when I was 11 with blue Chevy Chevette while my dad drove. I like automatics, I've driven manuals, but I've always, purposefully bought automatics since they're less work, especially in stop-and-go traffic, when I'm talking to a passenger or on a cell phone, discussing anatomy with your significant other, etc. Let's not turn this thread into an AA (Automatics Anonymous) meeting. People have preferences for autos and manuals just like people have preferences on colors, music, weather, etc.

I like blue. Well I like red. Blue sucks. Oh yeah, well red really sucks. :bang:

[2000 XYR]

I much, much, much prefer manuals to automatics. But I had no choice with my truck. That's all they make. I at least wish it had a shiftable tranny like the GT-S has. That would be adequate for me. I must say though that having an auto takes all chance out at the track. All I do is push down the pedal, the truck does the rest. No worries. ;) I do no plan on ever buying a "sporty" type car that is automatic though. Even my beloved MKIV that I totally love, I would have a hard time buying it in auto. I think the biggest problem with the auto in the Celica is that the Celica is a 4-cylinder car. That's a bad combination in my book. You need torque and displacement to cancel out the negative effects of the auto tranny.

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

Originally posted by yakkosmurf

You need to explain this one further. This is the stupidest excuse I've ever heard. The only way this makes sense, is if you want to put an SC or a turbo on the car. If you're going to do that, I wouldn't recommend using the stock ZZ internals anyway. Why not get the GTS with a G head engine so when you go with the forced induction, you'll have a free flowing head design to feed it. You're still not making much sense. You need to explain things a little better.

Because Free flowing or not, Toyota designed this engine much like the Type R engine which is a more Naturally aspirated engine. I origianlly wanted an efficient car, GT uses smaller compression meaning cheaper gas. The Celica was just a car to hold me over for a few years but Ive grown to love it. And good luck finding some 8.5:1 pistons coating in MMC.

Originally posted by yakkosmurf

Once again kid you're missing the point. Is a Z28 automatic faster than a 6-speed GTS...yes. The point, oh nieve one, is that if you compare two Z28s with the same mods, then manual will always be faster than the automatic (not talking about poor drivers here). Same would go for a GTS. I'm sorry you bought an auto, but you should stop dreaming that you're just as fast. Road course or drag strip, an automatic transmission is a big disadvantage. You might as well be hauling a trailer of bricks. Could I make the car hauling bricks faster than one that isn't? Sure, but I'd have to modifiy it more. Then it might do better at the tractor pull, but it still won't handle the road course as well. End of story.


Like i said earlier....guess you must be death...if you wanna try come to sac and i'll show you...

[t2000gts]

Originally posted by mr2crazyguy
to those with autos can you downshift for a corner?

heeltoe downshift while threshold braking and smoothly apply throttle to the corner exit without some economy prog'd computer trying to make up it's mind about whatever the hell it's gonna do? :chuckles:
with a manual YOU control the car and everything it does. In an auto....welll....

manuals can launch better than autos (wow whod've thought controlling a clutch so that it could slip could use 100% of tire traction to accel :wiggle: i.e. autos :rofl: manuals :burnout: )

manual equipped vehicles usually faster than autos...
when brakes fail how strong is that engine brake of yours
4 gears<5 gears<6 gears
automatics get less gas mileage
automatics can overheat in the snow
manuals easier to service
manuals less complicated thereby providing less to go wrong
autos last 60000 miles in pure stop and go driving
autos.......
the list would fill a page a whole page :rofl:

(tongue in cheek responsea please don't want flames)

i agree with most everyone here except you.

1) autos launch better than manuals. autos are usually preferred for drag racing. a 6-speed GT-S spraying a 50 shot of nitrous has trouble getting anything better than a 2.4 60'...an auto GTS spraying 75 off the line with a TC can cut 2.0-2.1 60' every time, without destroying the transmission or burning up a clutch (provided you powerbrake properly and don't hold the engine revving over the stall speed and you have a cooler).

2) yes you can downshift for a corner. not only in a sportshift gts, but a auto GT too, or any automatic. you use the shift lever to kick it down to 2, D, etc. hell, you can downshift to first for low speed corners.

3) the difference between a full stop with engine braking in a manual and in an automatic is not much, despite the lack of 2 gears. you can downshift to first in an automatic if you need to.

4) the difference in gas mileage is also negligible.

5) a lot of cars can overheat in the snow, particularly race cars. i haven't heard of many normal cars doing it in normal driving.

6) less to go wrong? :chuckles: look at the posts about 6-speed GT-S problems and auto GTS problems (no, a 4-speed doesn't count as a problem :p :fawk: )...misshifts, synchroes, clutches...

7) with proper maintenance, and regular tranny flushes, and/or a cooler, a modern auto tranny can go for well beyond 60k miles of hard traffic.

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

Originally posted by t2000gts


i agree with most everyone here except you.

1) autos launch better than manuals. autos are usually preferred for drag racing. a 6-speed GT-S spraying a 50 shot of nitrous has trouble getting anything better than a 2.4 60'...an auto GTS spraying 75 off the line with a TC can cut 2.0-2.1 60' every time, without destroying the transmission or burning up a clutch (provided you powerbrake properly and don't hold the engine revving over the stall speed and you have a cooler).

2) yes you can downshift for a corner. not only in a sportshift gts, but a auto GT too, or any automatic. you use the shift lever to kick it down to 2, D, etc. hell, you can downshift to first for low speed corners.

3) the difference between a full stop with engine braking in a manual and in an automatic is not much, despite the lack of 2 gears. you can downshift to first in an automatic if you need to.

4) the difference in gas mileage is also negligible.

5) a lot of cars can overheat in the snow, particularly race cars. i haven't heard of many normal cars doing it in normal driving.

6) less to go wrong? :chuckles: look at the posts about 6-speed GT-S problems and auto GTS problems (no, a 4-speed doesn't count as a problem :p :fawk: )...misshifts, synchroes, clutches...

7) with proper maintenance, and regular tranny flushes, and/or a cooler, a modern auto tranny can go for well beyond 60k miles of hard traffic.

Another great quote from a Well Respected and unbias NewCelica.org surfer.

[Death_Adder]

Originally posted by yakkosmurf

Please elaborate on which "environments" an automatic would be better. My wife and I own three cars and drive in Houston traffic regularly. All three cars are manuals, and we wouldn't have it any other way. In fact, we're looking at buying her a Jaguar, and that will be a manual too. Automatics suck. Plain and simple.
Why don't you take your head out of your ass and quit being so narrow-minded. That's your opinion, and I think I can speak for most people here when I say no one really gives a sh!t what you think. MOST people would disagree with you or 3/4 (a conservative guess I would think) of the cars on the road wouldn't be an automatic. If manuals were so preferable, the auto transmission wouldn't be considered an option, it'd be the other way around.

If you don't like autos, that's your opinion and I respect that. But don't rag other people because they disagree with you. Each has their pros and cons, you take that into consideration, and get what you want.

And anyone that thinks that a stick is better in stop-and-go traffic than an automatic needs to get their head checked. I have a friend who moved to Houston and he says the only thing he doesn't miss is the traffic. If you wanna see some real traffic, come to Atlanta during rush hour and see what 15+ lanes of solid cars for miles and miles is like where it takes an hour just to go a few miles and that's if there's no wrecks.

http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gte640i/images/getimage.jpg
8 Lanes in one direction. This is on I-75/85 near 10th street, right near Ga Tech where I go to school. I have to drive in this every day.


I don't like having to worry about the car creeping forward when I rest my foot and take it off the brake...

That has to be the most double-sided argument I've ever heard. You're too lazy to keep your foot on the brake, but you're not lazy enough to mind doing all that clutch work and shifting gears. Sorry, I don't buy it.

[Death_Adder]

But, I would have to agree with you on the matter that trying to race (well, seriously anyway) an automatic is kind of dumb. Automatics are slower than stick and that's just the way it is. I've got no problem with that. If you want to mod your car by getting a turbo and don't mind paying the extra cash to make it on par with a stick, well good for you.

[The Game]

Originally posted by t2000gts
6) less to go wrong? :chuckles: look at the posts about 6-speed GT-S problems and auto GTS problems (no, a 4-speed doesn't count as a problem :p :fawk: )...misshifts, synchroes, clutches...
Misshifts are driver errors not the transmission fault!

[The Game]

Originally posted by 2002GT_Celica


Why do you feel it necessary to make such comments? Does it make you feel better about yourself to put down owners of automatics? Sure seems like it...
I didnt understand why he was prefering autos over manuals if he himself is upgrading from an auto to a manual.
If autos are so great then why is he switching???

[mr2crazyguy]

by t2000gts

1) autos launch better than manuals. autos are usually preferred for drag racing. a 6-speed GT-S spraying a 50 shot of nitrous has trouble getting anything better than a 2.4 60'...an auto GTS spraying 75 off the line with a TC can cut 2.0-2.1 60' every time, without destroying the transmission or burning up a clutch (provided you powerbrake properly and don't hold the engine revving over the stall speed and you have a cooler).

2) yes you can downshift for a corner. not only in a sportshift gts, but a auto GT too, or any automatic. you use the shift lever to kick it down to 2, D, etc. hell, you can downshift to first for low speed corners.

3) the difference between a full stop with engine braking in a manual and in an automatic is not much, despite the lack of 2 gears. you can downshift to first in an automatic if you need to.

4) the difference in gas mileage is also negligible.

5) a lot of cars can overheat in the snow, particularly race cars. i haven't heard of many normal cars doing it in normal driving.

6) less to go wrong? :chuckles look at the posts about 6-speed GT-S problems and auto GTS problems (no, a 4-speed doesn't count as a problem :p :fawk: )...misshifts, synchroes, clutches...

7) with proper maintenance, and regular tranny flushes, and/or a cooler, a modern auto tranny can go for well beyond 60k miles of hard traffic.


*information dispense mode engaged*
*logical processors online*

1. I do take back the comment I said about traction. You're right about this but this matters in high power apps (and the trans obviously being upgraded). stock for stock a manual will beat an automatic in the straightline. But you're right they can be easily launched better. Launching better = Lower ET. Also it would be nice to note that most drag racing cars(pro or just really quick drag cars in general) have autos but they shift them manually (i.e. trans cannot shift itself) in an attempt to control the powerband more (shifting at a shift point)

2. (excluding sport shifts) The autos interface for shifting to my experience is mushy and inconsistent at best. Just trying to manual shift my stepmom's minivan while trying to take it easy on the brakes was a complete PITA now of course that's a mini van but I also drove a few cars like that also. A car that's hard to drive that way is hard to drive fast that way.

3. a manual will use engine braking EVERY time you let off the gas an automatic you have to take it out of drive. and if you want more braking in a manual you downshift. same with an auto but an automatic has one gear that won't do it. cutting the options down to three levels of braking (except for the really big ones like 5 speeds) versus 6 for the celica GTS or 5 for the GT.

NOTE: I'll be completely honest I have no idea what the sportshift does in relation to a standard auto therefore i did not exclude it nor did I actually mention it in statement 3. Obviuosly if it has standard auto trans components with only UI to select gears more aptly then it will act like i described above, only the 3 lowest gears will have engine braking.


4. how can the gas mileage difference be negligible? even if you save one MPG for the lifetime of the vehicle (assuming both cars driven equal miles with emissions and fuel/air induction systems degrading at the same rate and the same price fuel for each at every fill up) you would end up saving a lot of money (possibly hundreds a year) on gas for the lifetime of the car.

5. I misstated that I apologize. What I meant to say was that the transmission itself could overheat thereby damaging it's internals. How? because the auto trans has no direct link between the engine and it's drive train (read the torque converter uses fuid to transmit power) it has to work harder to plow through snow (the trans would be slipping a lot) and also becuase of this non direct link the engine would be running higher than it has to as well so therefore it could overheat as well though it's not as likely. A manual trans connects the drivetrain to the engine itself so the only thing making slippage could be the driver (or faulty clutch as some would like to point out more on that later) Though I would like to note that due to the advent of computer controlled locking torque converters (and their associated logic algorithyms) this is not as much of a problem.

6. Definetly less to go wrong let me list some components of autos and of manuals...

Autos... Planetary gear sets*, valve bodies, hydraulic actuators, solenoids, switches, fluid circuits for each gear (obviously having lines for them and the solenoids and actuators to activate each circuit). output shaft, torque converter, flexplate, speedo gear, control linkage , trans ECU, trans system wiring harnesses, connectors for each solenoid and actuator and switch, reversing lights switch, filter, magnet, safety interlock switch, trans fluid cooler, lines for cooler, clutch bands (one for each gear), brake bands (one for each gear), parking pawl, torque converter locking mechanism (to combat Bernouliis(?) principle of fluid flow characteristics the link below will explain the need for this more), trans fluid pan and gasket for it, casing for trans and diff.

*(gears arranged in a really funky pattern go to howstuffworks.com (http://www.howstuffworks.com) for more explanation on the gears. Obviously the complexity of the arrangement varies on the amount of gears the trans has)

Manuals... flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, input shaft, output shaft, gears and synchros (synchros not present on racing cars.), reversing light switch, speedo gear, control linkage, clutch release arm, pilot bearing, throw-out bearing, clutch control linkage, (whether mechanical[clutch cable] or hydrualic[having master and slave cylinders and lines for them]), clutch interlock switch (not present on all cars), magnet, casing for trans and diff.

i apologize if I missed a few on either side...

The law of averages are against autos. If i'm correct if there are more things on something working to make it work then there's more of a chance something will break to cause it to not work. All those components also make it heavier.

also those problems you mention... misshifts are driver errors, the synchros in my 15 year old MR2 are fine to me (it might need a fluid change though to make it a little smoother which is optional on most manual cars) which could indicate that either people are blaming the car for there lack of shifting ability or the celica has weak synchros (I think the driver problem is more likely though I could be wrong) Also the clutch goes quicker if you slip it more (i.e. more than needed) my dad had a VW quantum that had it's original clutch last some 390000+ miles. I have never heard of an auto even dreaming of lasting that long but it's not like i'm omnipotent so there maybe a few that have.

7. You, most likely, are right on this one but how many people just pull into jiffy lube as soon as the odometer reading they marked for an oil change rolls up? Hardly any. I know I probably should've changed the oil in my car as soon as I replaced the head gasket but I haven't (and plan to tomorrow hopefully it'll happen). But I shouldn't ramble on about a few extra miles here and there but a few thousand will definetly affect the longevity of the trans.

Another thing to look at is what manuals require for maintenance. Almost nothing, yes manufacturers suggest that the fluid be changed but most of the time it's not even looked by anybody. Some of the time the internals will last long after the engine it was connected to is nothing but recycled iron. the clutch maybe gone but as long as it wasn't beat to death the gears and synchros will probably be there waiting to be used.


I will close by saying this: Automatics DO have their use in the automotive world and no matter what all of the manual loving drivers in the world say or do they can't take that fact away. The fact that it's easier to use in city, high power drag and some/most street driving situations is mostly undisputable. I know i've gotten a little antsy in city driving because i didn't like rowing through gears as much as I did. But i sacrificed the easiness of an auto to be able to control my car better (which no matter what auto drivers may say is true, manuals do allow the driver to better control what the car does, of course whether the driver does the right thing is different and goes for both autos and manuals) To know that what I'M doing is affecting the car. This may not mean much to people nor does it have to. Everybody's different and there are both advantages and disadvantages and compromises to both systems the only thing needed to be decided on is what's right for themselves. That's what matters

[Death_Adder]

Everybody's different and there are both advantages and disadvantages and compromises to both systems the only thing needed to be decided on is what's right for themselves. That's what matters


Exactly.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by Death_Adder
But, I would have to agree with you on the matter that trying to race (well, seriously anyway) an automatic is kind of dumb.
And that is exactly my point. My dad has a Lexus. That works better in an automatic. People on here talk about the performance of their Celica. If you want performance, why buy a car that's basically towing a trailer of bricks? Because it has more convience? I thought you wanted performance...

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by The Game

I didnt understand why he was prefering autos over manuals if he himself is upgrading from an auto to a manual.
If autos are so great then why is he switching???
Good question...

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by mr2crazyguy


NOTE: I'll be completely honest I have no idea what the sportshift does in relation to a standard auto therefore i did not exclude it nor did I actually mention it in statement 3. Obviuosly if it has standard auto trans components with only UI to select gears more aptly then it will act like i described above, only the 3 lowest gears will have engine braking.

The point is, you still can't rev match. Sport shifts don't replace a manual on a road course. Yes, you can downshift coming into the turn, but the lurch of the engine not being rev matched when you shift, will throw off your CG and mess up your stability through the turns. Also, the shifting on a sport shift is just as sluggish as an automatic. The sport shift only gets rid of one of the problems of an automatic. It does let you shift when you want, for the most part, but it doesn't solve the problem of slippage and jerks on shifting...

[pensfan83]

Yakko, I have a question about that. On the rare occasions when I throw my auto tranny down into 2 or L (1st, obviously) to accelerate exactly when I want to, I give it a little bit of gas. I've never driven stick, but I'm assuming that is along the lines of rev matching. It doesn't lurch at all and is actually quite smooth. Is this harmful to the tranny? I confess I'm not up to speed on how auto trannies work.


Oh, BTW: I hate automatics :) I'll never buy another automatic as long as I live.

[mr2crazyguy]

no rev matching can be done for an auto however losing traction at the drive wheels is less of a possibility because of how the engine's resistance to acceleration is transmitted to the tires. What is happening with you I think is that the gas your giving the car is counteracting the slipping the trans does when it downshifts tacking up the slack.

[Death_Adder]

Just like with a manual, it takes a good deal of practice to rev-match in an auto, but it can be done. You just have to know at what speeds to shift and when you're better off leaving it in the current gear. What makes this a lot easier in the celica is the electronically controlled transmission (not talking about sport shift). Once you learn it's behaviour, it's much easier to get it to do what you want it to than a mechanical transmission even in full auto mode. The ECT is much more sensitive to throttle input, meaning you don't have to wait for hydraulic pressure to build like in a MCT. If you want to downshift, you can give a quick pulse of the throttle and downshift without even accelerating. If you get really good at it, you can even "confuse" the ECU and rev the car without even shifting to neutral. But, for road racing, you're still much better off shifting manually because you can't do things like engine braking and throttle steering in auto mode.

[Death_Adder]

This may be obvious to some and probably not to most, so I'd like to post exactly why autos are slower than manuals.

The single biggest reason why autos are slower than manuals is gearing. When you have 1 less gear on the GT and 2 less on the GTS, of course there's going to be a huge performance difference. When the car is in it's power band, it isn't half bad but when it's not (which is most of the time), it's a dog. I challenge a 6-speed owner to skip 2nd and 4th next time he drag races and see what kinda times you get. My guess is well into the 16's. The power band on the GT auto goes something like this:

0-25 SLOW -- This is the slowest place on the car. You can't rev the car high enough to launch into the power band. A TQ converter would mostly fix this. Should be able to pick up at least a second.
25-40 pretty quick -- This is the fastest place on the car. Shift into first at about 30 and stomp the gas and it takes off pretty good.
*Shift to 2nd
40-60 not too bad -- RPMs drop to ~3700, not too far off the power band.
60-80 not bad at all -- This is the 2nd fastest range on the car. Once you're back on the power band, it's not so bad.
*shift to 3rd
80-100 SLOW -- With a 3rd gear that goes up to 130 and low RPMs in this speed range, this is the 2nd slowest spot on the car. Pick up at least 0.5 second (assuming a 90 mph trap) here with better gearing.
100+ starts picking up a little but still slow

A distant 2nd is power to the wheels. How much of a difference in power to the wheels is there between an auto and a manual? About 15 hp (just a guess)? That should be good for maybe 0.5 second. The other 1.5+ is due to gearing.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by pensfan83
Yakko, I have a question about that. On the rare occasions when I throw my auto tranny down into 2 or L (1st, obviously) to accelerate exactly when I want to, I give it a little bit of gas. I've never driven stick, but I'm assuming that is along the lines of rev matching. It doesn't lurch at all and is actually quite smooth. Is this harmful to the tranny? I confess I'm not up to speed on how auto trannies work.


Oh, BTW: I hate automatics :) I'll never buy another automatic as long as I live.
It won't hurt the tranny that much. You're looking at a very slight increase in wear, but that's about it.

[XYRCNCP]

This general topic of 6spd vs auto is gettin waaaay too old, seems that some people get a kick by telling auto owners that their auto sucks....well you know what? is their money not yours, I have an auto, do I give a flying f*ck you have a 6spd? NO,do I care if your 6spd is faster? NO, do I care if you say I wasted my money in an auto? NO, it's MY money, paid by ME, insured by ME.

And the other thing, some of the auto owners, whats their first line in their post? "I have an auto GT/GTS....I know, worst purchase ever/I regret it/I know it sucks.....and I wanted to know..." Sad how someone has to put themselves down to "fit in" or to get the "approval" of other people. I'm sorry I'm ranting but it just sickens me everytime I see someone asking a legitimate question and because they have an auto they have to go through 10 posts saying how their tranny is $hit but not getting an answer to their question. Granted, some comments are from people who like to joke but know their stuff, but some other comments are just way to serious......it's a f*cking car people........**ranting off**

[t2000gts]

2. (excluding sport shifts) The autos interface for shifting to my experience is mushy and inconsistent at best. Just trying to manual shift my stepmom's minivan while trying to take it easy on the brakes was a complete PITA now of course that's a mini van but I also drove a few cars like that also. A car that's hard to drive that way is hard to drive fast that way.

3. a manual will use engine braking EVERY time you let off the gas an automatic you have to take it out of drive. and if you want more braking in a manual you downshift. same with an auto but an automatic has one gear that won't do it. cutting the options down to three levels of braking (except for the really big ones like 5 speeds) versus 6 for the celica GTS or 5 for the GT.

NOTE: I'll be completely honest I have no idea what the sportshift does in relation to a standard auto therefore i did not exclude it nor did I actually mention it in statement 3. Obviuosly if it has standard auto trans components with only UI to select gears more aptly then it will act like i described above, only the 3 lowest gears will have engine braking.

well, with the sportshift GTS, it never shifts when it's in manual mode unless you press the button on the steering wheel telling it to shift. it still shifts slowly, but you can control the shifts now. you can bounce off the rev limiter all you like, but it still won't shift. when you let off the gas, it engine brakes. it does this more than any manual because there's no clutch pedal to stick in.

i have noticed in all the automatics i've driven (88 accord, 93 accord, 94 acura vigor), that using L->2->D behaves 90% the same way...i just pop it from D4 (overdrive) to D3 (od off), and it downshifts fine...or even to 2 or 1 and it downshifts fine, and doesn't shift by itself or anything. putting the lever into those lower options means the transmission will NOT shift up. i think it still will upshift though, if you hit the rev limiter, but i hit a limiter in my acura vigor at 7000rpm a few times without that happening. honda autos also shift harder (it chirps the 1->2 shift when it's wet out :p ), but they shift so late that it's annoying for me. i know the auto is for luxury, and i drive like that. if i wanted it to start revving high and whatnot, i'd use the manual mode or sportsfhit.

and for downshifting, the tranny automatically rev matches...if it didn't, it would be killing itself every 50,000 miles...and beacuse of the less gears, you also don't have to worry about downshifting more than 1 or 2 gears at a time. in which case you brake hard for a corner, and downshift as you brake not more than once or twice, then accelerate out in gear. i don't see the big fuss over this. if road courses allowed the use of nitrous, a person who knows what they're doing could probably use only a 50-60 shot and give a lot of manual driven cars a run for their money in even the gts automatic (17/16 second car stock in the 1/4 mile). (i'm thinking about an application where you have a button to press to spray and hold it...mostly to make up distance on the straights, but i guess if you're really crazy, you could probably use it when accelerating out of corners which you oversteered into...which is easier to do predictably when you just have to worry about slamming the brake pedal and pressing downshift once or twice)

bottom line, the celica automatics are newer, and don't really fit those old stereotypes, but plenty of cars do, to varying degrees. i was mainly talking about the celica automatics in question here.

4. how can the gas mileage difference be negligible? even if you save one MPG for the lifetime of the vehicle (assuming both cars driven equal miles with emissions and fuel/air induction systems degrading at the same rate and the same price fuel for each at every fill up) you would end up saving a lot of money (possibly hundreds a year) on gas for the lifetime of the car.

i have a CAI on my car, an exhaust coming soon. probably a header/downpipe, some pulleys, maybe an ECU upgrade and more. they affect my gas mileage as well. the main thing is that if you drive this car like me (hitting VVTL-i every other light), it will not have so great mileage :D it varies drastically depending on the way i drive. the difference between a manual and auto (what? 1-2mpg?) pales in comparison to the difference between me taking it easy or getting on it (nearly a 10mpg swing).

5. I misstated that I apologize. What I meant to say was that the transmission itself could overheat thereby damaging it's internals. How? because the auto trans has no direct link between the engine and it's drive train (read the torque converter uses fuid to transmit power) it has to work harder to plow through snow (the trans would be slipping a lot) and also becuase of this non direct link the engine would be running higher than it has to as well so therefore it could overheat as well though it's not as likely. A manual trans connects the drivetrain to the engine itself so the only thing making slippage could be the driver (or faulty clutch as some would like to point out more on that later) Though I would like to note that due to the advent of computer controlled locking torque converters (and their associated logic algorithyms) this is not as much of a problem.

i've plowed through snow many times in my car, my house is just like that. when it snows a lot in NY, i have trouble getting out (mostly because the tires are really worn out and they're summer only to begin with).

the torque converter only slips on shifts, and under the stall speed...if you're stuck in snow and still on the gas...it will go right past the stall speed, stop most slipping, and just spin the wheels. the car will detect this and deduce what's going on, and have the rev limiter kick in lower like if you were in neutral.

6. Definetly less to go wrong let me list some components of autos and of manuals...

Autos... Planetary gear sets*, valve bodies, hydraulic actuators, solenoids, switches, fluid circuits for each gear (obviously having lines for them and the solenoids and actuators to activate each circuit). output shaft, torque converter, flexplate, speedo gear, control linkage , trans ECU, trans system wiring harnesses, connectors for each solenoid and actuator and switch, reversing lights switch, filter, magnet, safety interlock switch, trans fluid cooler, lines for cooler, clutch bands (one for each gear), brake bands (one for each gear), parking pawl, torque converter locking mechanism (to combat Bernouliis(?) principle of fluid flow characteristics the link below will explain the need for this more), trans fluid pan and gasket for it, casing for trans and diff.

*(gears arranged in a really funky pattern go to howstuffworks.com for more explanation on the gears. Obviously the complexity of the arrangement varies on the amount of gears the trans has)

Manuals... flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, input shaft, output shaft, gears and synchros (synchros not present on racing cars.), reversing light switch, speedo gear, control linkage, clutch release arm, pilot bearing, throw-out bearing, clutch control linkage, (whether mechanical[clutch cable] or hydrualic[having master and slave cylinders and lines for them]), clutch interlock switch (not present on all cars), magnet, casing for trans and diff.

i apologize if I missed a few on either side...

you're definitely right. the auto tranny is a hell lot more complex and weird, and a manual is a lot easier to service.

my point being, that if you drive a celica automatic, the odds are on YOUR side. average GTS auto owner on this site has had no tranny work done. average GTS 6-speed owner on this site has either had to replace their clutch, synchroes, or entire transmission (misshift).

The law of averages are against autos. If i'm correct if there are more things on something working to make it work then there's more of a chance something will break to cause it to not work. All those components also make it heavier.

sure...but it's not nearly as clearcut a choice for the celica. despite the 6-speed's obvious performance advantages, i would still hesitate. i don't know what exactly causes so many synchroes to go out so soon, or what i would do if that happened to me (NY dealers are known to be jerks about it).

7. You, most likely, are right on this one but how many people just pull into jiffy lube as soon as the odometer reading they marked for an oil change rolls up? Hardly any. I know I probably should've changed the oil in my car as soon as I replaced the head gasket but I haven't (and plan to tomorrow hopefully it'll happen). But I shouldn't ramble on about a few extra miles here and there but a few thousand will definetly affect the longevity of the trans.

Another thing to look at is what manuals require for maintenance. Almost nothing, yes manufacturers suggest that the fluid be changed but most of the time it's not even looked by anybody. Some of the time the internals will last long after the engine it was connected to is nothing but recycled iron. the clutch maybe gone but as long as it wasn't beat to death the gears and synchros will probably be there waiting to be used.

true, but then it's their fault if anything goes wrong. i'm pretty religious about oil change intervals. and i plan on flushing my tranny sooner than every 15k miles. that's all the manuals really require for automatics as well...flush the tranny every 15k miles...most people do it even later without problems on these cars.



this is a pretty pointless debate to begin with. automatics in their current slushbox form are being relegated to one group (high power applications), while manuals are also being relegated to one side. the future will be the automatic manuals for sporty applications and manual automatics for the luxury applications. if you define the tranny name by it's operation, then most F1 cars have nearly completely automatic systems (automatic shifting, launch, etc.)

[nate22]

although very entertaining(:popcorn: ), I couldn't bare reading the rest of this ill-picked fight. This is THE dumbest argument I've read thus far on my forum surfing excursions. Hehe, I picked a fight w/ CANADA (celispeed.com), but this one still takes the cake.......However, if you've all kissed and made up by now(I wouldn't know because I stopped reading WAY before the last post as of this very second) I apologize.

:wave: take care!

don't flame me, i'm only half serious..........:wiggle:

[celica23chick]

hmm ok well i currenty race my gt auto..but im planning to do a tranny swap in october.....does anyone know where i can look for price quotes on it to give me an estimated idea of how much it will cost and parts i will need to include on it...and if anyone has any info on turbos that would be great..thanks

by the way its a 2001 gt...

[nate22]

http://www.howstuffworks.com/turbo.htm

read up, you'll need all the info you can find so you have an idea what you're in for.....(not much, but definitely helps to know what you're going to do to your car ;) There's some really good links on how(if you REALLY wanted to) build one and install yourself.


http://www.howstuffworks.com/engine.htm

another good link if you wanna get the basic idea of stuff(internals) you might wanna think of replacing(enhancing) if you wanna run some crazy boost........or then again, maybe not :P

[nate22]

btw, doing a tranny conversion is gonna run you a PRETTY penny...actually a WHOLE lot of pennies.........

[celica23chick]

Originally posted by nate22
http://www.howstuffworks.com/turbo.htm

read up, you'll need all the info you can find so you have an idea what you're in for.....(not much, but definitely helps to know what you're going to do to your car ;) There's some really good links on how(if you REALLY wanted to) build one and install yourself.


http://www.howstuffworks.com/engine.htm

another good link if you wanna get the basic idea of stuff(internals) you might wanna think of replacing(enhancing) if you wanna run some crazy boost........or then again, maybe not :P
thank u so much..for the info..=)

[celica23chick]

Originally posted by nate22
btw, doing a tranny conversion is gonna run you a PRETTY penny...actually a WHOLE lot of pennies.........
like whats the estimated price......5-8 g's

[nate22]

I'm actually thinking about going Turbo AND running a good shot of N20....I've been reading up as much as possible about EVERY angle of each mod......Wanted to know everything every step of the way.....some good stuff on that site (howstuffworks.com)...also great links to more specfic sites,etc.


By the way, you DO realize how much money both are going to cost you right? ;) ;)

[celica23chick]

Originally posted by nate22
I'm actually thinking about going Turbo AND running a good shot of N20....I've been reading up as much as possible about EVERY angle of each mod......Wanted to know everything every step of the way.....some good stuff on that site (howstuffworks.com)...also great links to more specfic sites,etc.


By the way, you DO realize how much money both are going to cost you right? ;) ;)
i say between 8 - 10 gs.....??? is it more?

[oldster]

Originally posted by yakkosmurf

Please elaborate on which "environments" an automatic would be better. My wife and I own three cars and drive in Houston traffic regularly. All three cars are manuals, and we wouldn't have it any other way. In fact, we're looking at buying her a Jaguar, and that will be a manual too. Automatics suck. Plain and simple.

Bracket racing..........:)

[nate22]

Originally posted by celica23chick

like whats the estimated price......5-8 g's


hmm..depending on price of tranny and rest of parts(clutch, yadayada...) AND labor(that's the kicker).......prolly not THAT much...but you're definitely(obviously) looking at a few grand EASY.... It all depends where you get your parts from......hehe...good luck buying from dealer.......if you want, i'll go in on the bank heist w/ you..hehe....sorry, long day at work already.....


Ask around, ask friends and fam if they know good mechanic(BETTER than good ;) and see if he'll hook you up.....i literally just found a pair of younger guys that know they're stuff and will do even the tranny swap for DIRT cheap......literally just talking about it yesterday w/ one of my boys, 20 mins later he was taking me to meet somebody about it....


yeah, i coulda kicked myself in the teeth for going auto......


i pulled into dealer's lot...like 7 '02 celica's all in a row....only ONE w/ TRD kit right smack in the middle..i wasn't thinking too clearly, most of it remains in a hazy state in the back of mind actually......1 hour later I had a new car :P

[nate22]

Originally posted by celica23chick

i say between 8 - 10 gs.....??? is it more?

whoa there.........what DO you do for a living? is that kinda cash just laying around on your nightstand? or inside the drawer next to your .45?


i take it your 23(sig)? working girl, huh? niiiiiiice

[celica23chick]

omg everyday i kick myself for getting an auto....my dad wouldnt let me get a stick shift cause i got into an accident after racing..and my dad thought i was actually racing when i got into an accident..that sucks big time..
anyways..yeah i hate my auto..i need a stick shift...so most likely im gonna do the tranny swap..but yeah i know alot of peeps that can do it for me...i just need to know how much estimated price and parts im gonna need for it...i might even have to drive to LA to do it.since my ex works for a shop...

[XYRCNCP]

This $hit still going on? damn you guys ain't got $hit better to do but b1tch about how you hate your auto tranny? Just enjoy the f*ckin car.......damn. But when you guys finally get the 6-speed, then there will be something to whine about again huh?

celica23chick, just sell the auto and get a stick, too pricy for the swap, unless like said above you got $$$ just laying around and ain't got the need for the car for sometime.

**rant off** (really bad day today)

[celica23chick]

Originally posted by XYRCNCP
This $hit still going on? damn you guys ain't got $hit better to do but b1tch about how you hate your auto tranny? Just enjoy the f*ckin car.......damn. But when you guys finally get the 6-speed, then there will be something to whine about again huh?

celica23chick, just sell the auto and get a stick, too pricy for the swap, unless like said above you got $$$ just laying around and ain't got the need for the car for sometime.

**rant off** (really bad day today)

to answer your question. yes i do have better things to do then to bitch about my auto celica. let me ask you something. do you have nothing better to do then to bitch about us bitching about our auto celicas,cause if so.then obviously you have issues. i do enjoy my celica but whats wrong with wanting something better or more mods,if your satisfied with ur "celica" then thats great, but for others..yes we will bitch til were satisfied with our car. til then i will bitch and groan til im happy.

ps. have a great day ;)

[The Game]

Originally posted by celica23chick

i say between 8 - 10 gs.....??? is it more?
If you can get a tranny from a wrecked GT 5spd then it should run you a lot cheaper! The install will cost the most.

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

My swap will be like 3 g's including parts.

[nate22]

go elsewhere, HOMO.........

seems like we're not the ONLY one's " b*tchin and whining" about auto's.............

[XYRCNCP]

ooooohhhh, HOMO...good one dumbass......n e ways, I aint gonna waste my time with a tard like you

[nate22]

ACTUALLY, i used another word, but edited it after i posted....it was a little TOO vulgar.........who are you to crack on what people wish to do to their cars?? THINK before you TYPE........

Everyone's entitled to their opinions, but sometimes people are just ignorant......

"tard?" now THAT was a good one..........

yeah, me too, i'm done wasting my time as well.........

[celica23chick]

well enough said...nate 22.....hes just a rude celica owner...enough said....have a good day everyone