Do I need an amp?

[WillyK]

OK so I bought a new deck today, a Kenwood (Can't remember what model) it was $300, plays MP3's and all that good stuff. So I have messed with it for about an hour and it just doesn't put out the bass like the stock setup did (They had to bypass the stock amp). So my question is...do I need to get an amp to get some more low end? I will not put a sub in my car, so that is out of the question. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

[J3adSeed]

replacing the stock deck with the premium sound setup can be a nightmare. i think the easiest thing to do would be put an amp in there.

on recommendation i'd have is i just bought a little ass pioneer amp, its like 40w rms x 2 and was 80 bucks. its real small, takes little current, and has excellent clean sound. i am really impressed by it for the cheap price. this amp is powering my rears, and a jl 300/2 will be powering my fronts.

[Deftech]

Check and see how they bypassed the stock amp. If they didn't wire the fronts in series only your mids and tweets in the front are working. If you look at the stock amp there are 6 sets of wires powering the factory speakers. They probably only hooked up 4 of the six, normal for a shop. You need to rewire it in series, there is a guide on here in the install section I believe. Amp you may need, depends on output of the deck. Mine is 60 x 4 and about all the stock speakers can realistically handle for any time period.

[DJ_GLITCH_OS]

I have to ask it...
Why no Sub?????

[Deftech]

Yeah, that is an important question, Why wouldn't you want a sub. I can understand if you don't want to take up your trunk space, or the extra weight (not that much really). But if you want low end sound that is the only way to go. A 6.5 in driver requires alot of back tubing and space in order to provide low end sound. So if ya want more, go with a sub. A small 8 or 10 in sub in a small box, will give you more low end w/o alot of cost. Maybe $200 total with a low powered amp.

[WillyK]

Because I don't want my car thumping with bass everywhere I go, don't care for the loss of trunk space either. I just want the bass to be at least as good as it is stock, as it is now there is none at all it seems. I'm not big on a huge system in my car, all I want is decent sound.

[bme107]

Willy- I found the sound of the premium system (I assume that is what you have ) is improved drastically with dynamat (or similar products). Check out the Dynamat thread that is near the top today for what I have done. Cost $150+/- plus your time to install it.
With all the settings at 0 on the stereo and the volume turned up about 180 degrees from none I can see the back glass puffing in and out with the beat.
You just need to harness what little power is there in the stock system. Solidifying the cabin is the method I chose.

[WillyK]

I liked the stock system as it was, that was perfectly fine for me but I wanted a new head unit, now it sounds like ****.

All I need to know is do I need an amp to get it to sound at least as good as the stock system did? If I need subs, then I'm just going to have the stock one put back in and get my money back. I DO NOT want bass rattling my car, just enough so the music doesn't sound hollow.

[DJ_GLITCH_OS]

If you get a sub you don't have to make it sound like Getto Bass......
They have made this new thing they are puting on amps now, called a GAIN controll....It actualy lets you adjust your sound output.....Not like the old barberic amps that shot out 100 gigawatts of power all at one time threw a 100w sub......
(sarcasim)

I would get a small sub and amp and place it out of the way in the trunk and let the lowend live it large (or small in your case)
A sub makes a huge difrence, it dosnt matter if your getto bassing or just wanting a tad bit more lows than norm.

Defently worht $200

ALso I have alot of ****e in my car and its tuned to sound good at all levels.

[Deftech]

Did you ever check the wiring. If you have the premium system and the amp is improperly bypassed it will sound like **** period. I would check that first before dropping any cash. Wired in series it sounds ok

[WillyK]

I know jack about wiring, I couldn't tell you how to do it if my life depended on it. I am thinking about just taking it someplace else and having them check it out.

[Deftech]

Alright try this then Turn the fade of the radio all the way to the front. Pick a station or cd with a relativly heavy amount of bass, not ncessarily low end bass. You won't have to turn it up very loud before you will know if your woofers in the door are firing or not. If they are not you are not in series. If this is true, we can help you get it right.

[WillyK]

I can hear sound coming from the speakers in the doors....what do I listen for to know if the woofers are firing or not? No bass=not firing?

I can tell you now, there is absolutely no bass at all, even with it turned up to the max.

[Deftech]

This means that only your tweeters and mis in the doors are firing. That is why it sounds worse w/ the aftermarket deck than stock. An amp will not fix this unless you completley rewire.

You have two options, You can wire your fronts in Parallel or Series.

Remember to do any of this with your car turned off. Do not play the radio while doing this. Cover all exposed wiring prior to turning on the Car. You do not want to short anything out.

You will need to open your glove box and take everything out. In the upper corners there are black Stops that prevent the glove box from falling all the way open. Remove both of these (twist 90 deg.) and let the box drop open. On the right you should see your factory amp.

Find the wiring harness for the speakers. Probably disconnected from the amp at this point. Contains the following wires. (all listed in the installs section here)

SPEAKERS
Driver
front 6 1/2 RED/blue + RED/black -
front mid/high PINK + VIOLET -
rear 6 1/2 BLACK + YELLOW -

Passenger
front 6 1/2 GREEN + BLUE/white -
front mid/high L. GREEN + BLUE -
rear 6 1/2 RED + WHITE -

Currently you should have Wires connected to 4 pairs. The ones to the rear 6 1/2's leave alone. Then you should have two connected pairs left. one to the Pink and Violet, the other to the Light Green and Blue.

You will have to cut the wires for your front woofers. About an inch from the connector.
Drivers side: Red w/ Blue Stripe (+) and Red w/ Black (-)
Passengers: Green (+) and Blue w/ White (-)

Stirp the wires you just cut (not on the connector). You now have leads for your front woofers.

Parellel:
This lowers the ohm load and can damage the internal amp in your deck, Not likely but still a concern. Not recomended personally.

Connect (twist) the pos. For the drivers side (Red w/ Blue) to the pos for the mid/highs (Pink) and the negatives (Red w/ Black) to the neg (violet). Cover this with a cap or wrap it with elec. Tape.

Do the same for the passengers side.
Pos (green) to pos. (Light Green) and neg (Blue w/ White) to neg (Blue). Cover again.

Now all speakers should work.

Series:
Remove the driver's neg lead (Violet). Twist together the neg wire (violet) and the pos for the woofer (Red w/ Blue) Now connect the Neg for the woofer (Red w/ black) to the wire you removed from Violet.
For the passangers remove neg lead (Blue) and connect to the woofer pos. (Green). Connect the woofers neg (Blue w/ White) to the wire you removed from Blue.

All speakers should work.

[WillyK]

Hey I appreciate the help. I have a friend at work that says he can do all this for me (I don't feel comfortable messing with it). I'm going to print that out and let him handle it.

Thanks for your help.

[jaegermeister00]

thanks for the posts, peoples. i had a cd player installed in my car a couple days ago. the woofers are not working at all, so they must not have wired the front speakers in series. you guys are pretty coo...

[TheXerox]

has anyone ever tried to jimmy rig the toyota amp to a aftermarket head unit? Or is that just like, totally outta the question..

[WillyK]

Originally posted by TheXerox
has anyone ever tried to jimmy rig the toyota amp to a aftermarket head unit? Or is that just like, totally outta the question..

Well the guy who did mine is the only person there that puts systems in the GTS there and he told me that you can't hook up the stock amp to an aftermarket radio.

On a side note, he recommended I do get a sub and showed me one that wasn't very large so I guess that is most likely what I'm going to end up doing.

[Deftech]

The problem with using the factory amp with an aftermarket deck is that the inputs for the amp need to be low level and most decks have powered outputs for the speakers. (20 watts up to 80 watts). This high of a level will overdrive the amp even at low volume settings on the deck. This will result in horrible amounts of clipping and distortion.

You could howver try and rig the RCA outputs for the deck into leads for the amp. This may provide better results. But most aftermarket decks have reasonable power output for the factory speakers.

[J3adSeed]

why not just buy a cheap little amp and switch out the factory amp with it. you can get the one i have, its a little pioneer, puts out 50 watts RMS into 2 channels with .008 THD. then you actually get good sound. this whole wiring in series is garbage. then you have mono sound, and an 8 ohm load, messy wiring, and half the power since you doubled the resistance. not to mention if you running the headunit unbalanced, as in, 8 ohms on one speaker out, and none on another, thats really bad for an amp (or the internal amp of the head unit). but you better read you manual and see if it warns against leaving channels empty or using an 8 ohm load.

[Deftech]

How does wiring in series make the deck run Mono? You still have stereo sound. You are still also using all four channels on the internal amp, the 2-ways in the rear (2) and the series in the doors (2) that makes 4. It is also undetermined whether it is a 4 ohm load or an 8 ohm load. I didn't look and well it is working fine.

Also if you are trying to get competition level sound you are going to upgrade the speakers anyway and the argument is mute.

[J3adSeed]

ah well i thought he was wiring both his fronts together in series, like both left and right. then you have 8 ohms or whatever going to the left (or right) and none going to the other side. that wouldn't be so good. i think it would all work, its just not such a great idea. but its only stock stuff so it doesn't matter that much you'll probably replace it eventually anyway.

[Mistrimeat]

Originally posted by DJ_GLITCH_OS
If you get a sub you don't have to make it sound like Getto Bass......
They have made this new thing they are puting on amps now, called a GAIN controll....

New??? Gain control has been around since the dawn of time!!! The old OLD OLD Rockford Fosgate amps from the late 80's/early 90's even had a gain knob!! I hope you were being sarcastic, fool!!

[RedNOSceli]

Yeah, the 6 speakers in the doors are a pain once you add an after market deck....

There's a total of 8 speakers, 4 of that run on two channels(the tweets and small mids) then then main front speakers and the main back speakers for a total of 6 channels running 8 speakers.

Your best/easiest thing to do would be to get a high quality set of 6 1/2 component speakers for the front. I bought Infinity Kappas and they have a passive cross-over, so I just hook my speaker-out from the deak to the cross-over, and the main speaker and the tweeter connect to the cross-over. They're extreamly clean and loud