View Full Version : Class-Action law suit. Please read and participate
Celica2NR92
10-01-2008, 12:50 AM
Ok...I am te type of person who normally frowns upon law suits. But the lift bolt issue as gone way to far in my opinion. Toyota knows there is an issue and has tried to correct the problem but is NOT taking care of the customer in the ways it should. The problem has been identified early on and a TSB was released. Howerver, Toyota never did the right thing and make this a recall. They never made attempt to inform the customers there was a huge potential for damage within the design of the lift bolts. God only knows how many people have broken lift bolts and have no clue and could end up prematurely ruining an engine without even knowing it! I consider myself a pretty devoted Celica owner. I may be kind of new on these forums but my wife and I have owned a 92 200 2001 and a 2002 Celica. All three 7th Gens have been GTS and have had lift bolt problems. I now have a broken lift bolt that I don't really have the time or experience to get out on my own and would probably spend more than 700 dollars to have it removed. This issue needs to be brought up in a legal way. To those who think it's worthless because it's our own fault for pushing the car into the higher RPMs frequently, let's remember the Celica was sold as a sports car and should be able to handle the abuse.
In the past, a class-action law suit was brought against ford for the design flaw in the thermostat housing of the 4.6l v8 engine. The housing was plastic and over age and extreme heat would crack and leak coolant and require replacement of the entire intake manifold. The case was won and free repairs were made to consumers vehicles. That isn't all. If you had proof you had spent your own money to have the repairs made previously, you could file to have a total reimbursement of the expenses you incurred. Now, here is the thing. Are we going to push this or just go quietly spending tons of our own money to have broken bolts removed or even entire heads replaced because of this one defect or are we going to stand up to Toyota and do something about it? I am willing to do the work if someone with some previous experience can help me with the process and if those of you who have had the problem will back me. Please chime in and let's try to get this thing rolling.
Thanks and contact me however you need to.
ChrisC
10-01-2008, 12:55 AM
Refer to the sticky for replacing lift bolts, easy fix.
Celica2NR92
10-01-2008, 01:45 AM
Refer to the sticky for replacing lift bolts, easy fix.
It isn't and easy fix if the bolt is already broken off in the head and you are not experienced enough to start removing all the things to slide out the rocker shaft
hotshot2101
10-01-2008, 01:52 AM
hey i had 2 gts both 2000 and i never had lift bolt problems but im gonna switch mine at 60 k
CalPencil
10-01-2008, 02:01 AM
If I can have a free 2zz engine, sign me up... otherwise... just change out the .75 cent bolt.
Celica2NR92
10-01-2008, 02:09 AM
To those that keep saying to change out the bolt...my intake cam bolt is broken off in the head. It isn't just a simple swap at that point. There are alot of other people in the same boat
R K e 1 C A
10-01-2008, 03:56 AM
its going to be a tough battle if you are willing to go through w/it and let alone find the right representation who would take on Toyota Motor Corp.
Toyota did make the right call and overall, as a Company are successful because they build vehicles that last well over 100K, look great, made of superior parts, etc. etc.
although this is a huge flaw in the 2ZZ and LIFT in general, in a broad view, here's how i see it
1. the Celica, 7th gen. is no more...there were only a certain amount made between 1999 until its last year and that number dwindles every year with crashes, accidents, what have you
2. the person who drives a Celica is changing...when it 1st came out, it was a hot looking, sporty ride that the vast majority of younger 1st time teen drivers couldn't afford as a 1st car...do i see this younger crowd being able to organize in mass numbers even to sign something stating their particular LIFT issue and why it should be argued in a court of law, probably not
3. so you've got a set amount of Celicas that are declining, younger drivers = more potential for screwing up by mis-shifting or just "learning by doing," along with factoring in how many GTS models were produced, how many GTS models have LIFT Bolt issues where it broke off in the rocker shaft and have yet to fix it, and are now awaiting for a Class action settlement appears as a probable very small major ity
deercelica
10-01-2008, 05:22 AM
I really would have no problem with this thread if it where 3 years ago, when the 2zz-ge was full swing, and Toyota cared about the Celica. I don't see this getting off the ground with the current 'state' of the Celica, or the lack thereof.
You're a day late and a dollar short.
..I'm going to be blunt;
Don't be ignorant. Open up the motor follow the how-to's and TSB's and fix it. It blows my mind how people are 'car enthusiasts' but have no mechanical ability to do anything with how it really works, internally. Learn something about the world around you, and what makes it function.
CalPencil
10-01-2008, 05:37 AM
I didn't know anything about it. My Lift Bolt broke off too. I took the time, did the repair myself, drilled it out, and installed helicoils and a new lift bolt. It took some time, and about $20 for the helicoil and bolt...and I was able to achieve lift again.
Toyota saw there was a problem, so they did correct it... They issued out a different lift bolt made with a taper and stronger material. You could try to complain and they might do the job for you...but to get a new engine out of it, wouldn't be plausible.
Honestly, I bought my celica at a discount only to find that it just took a little bit of work to get it back up into shape. If people all maintained the car the same way, then we wouldn't run into these kinds of problems.
Bolts wear out...oil gets old. Maybe we should make a class action lawsuit against God for not making indestructible bolts and oil that never needs changing?
This message isn't to make you angry, but to allow you to see the wider picture. It's frustrating, yes...and this message board can allow you to vent your frustration, but we shouldn't start pointing the finger at wear and tear.
Perhaps the original owner of your celica hit lift many times while beating in the car? There is always another cause for problems.
It isn't and easy fix if the bolt is already broken off in the head and you are not experienced enough to start removing all the things to slide out the rocker shaftSo my dealer discovered when they jammed the rocker shaft in the head and had to give me a new head under warranty :D
This topic has been covered multiple times. You've forgotten the 'trix and Lotus crowd. I'm also not aware of many cases where a broken bolt has caused significant other damage to the engine. The bolt design was changed '02.5+ and appears the bolt material was changed to a harder metal a couple of years ago. TMCC will argue that it addressed the issue. They didn't have to issue a recall under the NHTSA because it wasn't safety related. They did what was required by issuing the TSB.
Could be worse:
The engine blocks of some Civics may be cracked. In T.S.B. 08-044 issued on July 25, Honda officials said some 2006-7 Civics — but not the GX, Hybrid or Si models — might be leaking coolant and overheating as a result of the cracks. A new engine block assembly is the only remedy. Honda noted that owners whose vehicles were out of warranty might be eligible for reimbursement for the repairs. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/automobiles/28TSB.html?_r=2&ref=automobiles&oref=slogin&oref=slogin)
If you've got deep pockets or a Lawyer willing to work on speculation, go for it.
GSBoek
10-01-2008, 07:21 AM
Not worth it in my humble opinion. As mentione previously, recalls are only safety related. If you got your GT-S used, I'd think you would have to be able to prove that the previous owners weren't informed of the TSB, to even have a case. The amount of car nuts here on NC isn't even representative of the 7th generation owners out there so you will have to put a lot of effort into this. You might end up dissapointed in the end when you get less worth than your efforts put into it.
My point may be mute as I don't live in the US and never had an issue with liftbolts.
hombredelassrta
10-01-2008, 08:02 AM
I am not sure of a lawyer that would take this. not much potential for payout due to lack of real damage to engines, compliance by toyota in putting out the fixed part and replacing if there was an issue. for the ford case, was a tsb sent out?
it just seems like beating an overly dead horse. This fix is minor, damage is minimal, payout is too small (lawyer isn't going to take a 1/3 or free repairs ;) )
its a TSB - which means it doesn't affect enough cars to make it worth doing a recall.
deal with it.
rotchcrocket04
10-01-2008, 10:40 AM
its a TSB - which means it doesn't affect enough cars to make it worth doing a recall.
deal with it.
x2
There is a TSB on the Anniversary Edition 05 and all 06 350Zs motor. The motor can, in some cases, burn excessive oil. They never recalled it because about 50% of 06 owners have the problem. There are still guys trying to get a lawsuit against Nissan and keep failing.
Nissan has the TSB out. They will check the oil (seal the pan and dipstick), let you drive for 2000 miles or so then recheck the oil. If it drops below a certain threshold, they will "fix" the problem. The only way to fix the problem is to swap the motor with their V2 motor (which is the same motor with slight fixes). 20% of the people that get the V2 motor STILL have the oil consumption problem. If it goes through Nissan testing again and proves oil consumption again, Nissan offers these customers a "buyback" option and lets these people buy an 07 or 08 for a sincerely marked down price (which is a steal because the 07 and 08s have a reasonably stronger motor than ever before). Nissan never actually released information as to what the problem really is and why that motor has oil consumption issues. They just claim it to be a "fault".
There are alot of cases where the oil consumption is as bad as 3-5 quarts in under 1000 miles. With all of this said, it is a known and severe problem. Keep this in mind because a large group of individuals STILL haven't been able to get that lawsuit to pass through. Get over it because I highly doubt that Toyota or another Lawyer would follow through with this successfully.
Besides, when it comes down to it Toyota will probably claim you were driving the car hard and not in certain recommended conditions and they would blame you and throw the case out.
Celica2NR92
10-01-2008, 01:28 PM
Well, you guys all have a good point as far as there were not many GTS Celicas sold and all and it would probably be more trouble than it's worth. Looks like I am stuck trying to do this myself and I am getting no where fast.
Entranced
10-01-2008, 01:40 PM
it's a $2 fix, and if you knew about it, then you should have fixed it. I don't know where your coming up with this thousands of dollars we are all spending on this..
It's a TSB, not a recall. it would only be a recall if it was to act upon the safety of everyone on the road. Toyota did the right thing in this case by making it a TSB. If you think you can spend thousands on thousands of dollars for court fee's and such then go for it... good luck, you'll need it.
rammerjammer7
10-01-2008, 01:43 PM
good luck with that. GT FTW
find a lawyer with a celica :wiggle:
BobtheBuilder
10-01-2008, 01:46 PM
I'm in, but only if you include a petition forcing Toyota to release the 8th generation Celica.
hombredelassrta
10-01-2008, 01:51 PM
find a lawyer with a celica :wiggle:
marc had one a while a ago. i think that is a close as you will get at the moment
Geist
10-01-2008, 07:29 PM
I'm in, but only if you include a petition forcing Toyota to release the 8th generation Celica.
When in court, take the broken bolts and demonstrate what happens when they brake by screwing them into the Toyota reps arms until they agree to bring back Celica.:bang:
Yoda's Master
10-02-2008, 01:47 AM
haha, i took mines in about 10 days before the 5 yr warranty expired and got a new head. 1 yr later, pulled the bolts to check if it's still good, damned threads striped as it went smoothly in. i didnt cry to toyota for a faulty head, just heli coiled it and it's good to go. so u should set aside 1 day and fix it yourself. use zip ties to hold up the ignition wires so they dont get in the way when u're working.
JayNYOne
10-02-2008, 07:50 AM
good luck with that. GT FTW
:werd:
trdmsprts27
10-06-2008, 10:02 PM
Sounds to me like it's a general concensus of it's a waist of your time to even try to go up against Toyota. Sure it was a flaw, yes they corrected the problem with a TSB and stronger different designed bolts that cost a merly 1.25 for the 2 of them and maybe an hours worth of your time to replace. No i havn't had the luxuary of having this problem and don't intend to. I've also hit LIFT a few times and it still kicks in. Yes i have the 2 new bolts, no i havent replaced the ones in it or even had the time to check to see if they need a replacement. In your case you have a broken LIFT bolt and it has fallen inside. Since your mechanicle knoledge is not up to par then you can either download the DIY guide and talk to others that have had similar problems as you are having now or spend the money to have it opend and replaced. All in all your like the blind folded kid swinging a baseball bat at a swinging pinyata at a birthday party. Your going nowhere fast with the lawsuit idea of yours. Just my 2 cents.
sittinSidewayz
10-07-2008, 03:57 PM
[QUOTE=2way;4447243]So my dealer discovered when they jammed the rocker shaft in the head and had to give me a new head under warranty :D
...You've forgotten the 'trix and the Lotus crowd...QUOTE]
Wouldn't it have been quicker to type "matrix" rather than 'trix?
khoabui88
10-07-2008, 08:49 PM
i checked the TSB and i couldn't find anything about Lift Bolt. So can anyone please tell me how to change it. Thx a lot
rotchcrocket04
10-08-2008, 05:03 AM
Search. I don't have enough time to write out a full DIY guide right now. It's really not that hard.
silverCELICAgt-s
10-08-2008, 07:44 AM
ive had some for years just collecting dust, I'll sell them to you if you want lol. I think I paid like 2 bucks from toyota for them :gap:
Proximity
10-08-2008, 09:59 AM
Wouldn't it have been quicker to type "matrix" rather than 'trix?
But it would have been much less cooler.
wnanna
10-12-2008, 12:19 PM
Why not a class action for 2000 Celica GT's with burning oil issue? IMHO, that's the injustice!
ohioan86
10-15-2008, 08:31 AM
Why not a class action for 2000 Celica GT's with burning oil issue? IMHO, that's the injustice!
Good point!!
Lo_Pro_Life
10-18-2008, 12:16 PM
lol and 01's i went through 2 motors 1 from my original motor at 85K (01') and the 2nd used motor from japan out of an 01' so i kept the jap motor design im not gonna explain it again i have a 1ZZ K85N. had it rebuilt with imported parts(yes the stronger rods from japan check wiki if you dont belive me) and im happy now with no issues and had a small overbore while it was getting rebuilt.
2nd off on a more direct answer to this thread.
toyota celica GTS takes on 2zz motor and discontinues use of it later on almost with in 7-8 years of its toyota life in the line. hmm wonder why? also if you can talk to an honest guy at a dealership in the shop area or someone who works for toyota. the 2zz was pushed out of the toyota line as fast as possible with the "XRS" catagory. XRS was toyotas way of makeing there money back and getting the motor out of their line because of poor design.
and the 1zz lives on. haha :fawk:
EDIT*
also a its an old topic but still true
1zz + lift would be > 2zz+lift
Reaver_GT
10-18-2008, 05:30 PM
See also: crankwalking 2G DSMs. They knew the problem was there, but didn't really do anything about it.
SocalTRDgt
10-18-2008, 06:22 PM
mine broke too. drilling it was a PITA but if you got patience its all in a days work.
Dasher17
10-19-2008, 12:46 AM
It's been 8 years :whogives: I had almost no experience with engine work when I got my celica, lift bolts took 25 min.
gts_02
10-25-2008, 01:42 PM
aww man that suck this same thing just happened to due to the new lift bolt i just bought from toyota...well the new bolts (in my opinion) are weaker than the stock ones... the thread where the head on the bolt starts is real small and it gets thicker toward the end of the bolt...well i asked them how much do i tighten it and they said to just do it until its real tight, a point where it won't move...then i got home, tore it apart and tighten it and then it just snapped :eek::bang: i was like OMFG!!!! well now im stuck with the whole bolt in my engine block and im still trying to figure out a way to drill it out or just take it to the shop...because if i drill it then the tiny metal shards will fly every into my engine, cam gears, pistons etc.....toyota people suck they dont know sh!t about our cars Grrrr!!! ill have pics to show you the difference between the stock and new bolts....DAMN Toyota!!
gndude
10-25-2008, 08:50 PM
Axle grease on the drill bit, you won't throw shavings into the motor. Take your time, you can fix this. I would think they would install a hardened bolt for this issue with thread locker with low torque specs., you would think a bunch of PHD types could figure that out by now..
gts_02
10-26-2008, 12:15 AM
ok so i got a chance to take a few pictures...
this is the tag that was on the bag
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/tkhaab_94/P1010535.jpg
this was when i was comparing the two. the new one is on the left and the stock one is in the right
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/tkhaab_94/P1010517.jpg
the broken bolt head is on the left, next to it is the new bolt, notice how thin the thread starts circled in red compared to the stock in next to it.
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/tkhaab_94/edit2.jpg
another compare between the two. new on the left, also circled in red, stock in the middle,circled in black, broken head right
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/tkhaab_94/edit3.jpg
the new bolt, see how thin the thread starts (the diameter length) at the top circled in red
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/tkhaab_94/edit11.jpg
the old bolt
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/tkhaab_94/P1010531.jpg
ok thats about it
gts_02
10-26-2008, 02:32 PM
Axle grease on the drill bit, you won't throw shavings into the motor. Take your time, you can fix this.
thank you for your help..gndude u gave me the confidence to try again and guess what, today i was able to drill and pull out the broken bolt thanks a lot i really appreciate it...took a while but i got it out...im so happy right now....feels good to hear and feel LIFT its like its brand new... thank you all of you, for all of your help =]
Sty09
10-26-2008, 02:34 PM
Why not a class action for 2000 Celica GT's with burning oil issue? IMHO, that's the injustice!
:werd:
Far more dangerous if you run out of oil in the middle driving. Who cares about some stupid bolts unless you are an idiot who thinks the celica is a performance car.
Pulsar1
10-26-2008, 06:40 PM
I had and issue with the bolt that cost me $600 to fix and the oil comsuption problem tho it wasn't too bad at 1qt/3000mi. But all the cars Ive had used up to much oil. The VQ35 is even worse with oil.
you guys don't seem to understand what a class action lawsuit requires, or how they can be easily defeated with things like TSBs.
rotchcrocket04
10-27-2008, 08:17 AM
aww man that suck this same thing just happened to due to the new lift bolt i just bought from toyota...well the new bolts (in my opinion) are weaker than the stock ones... the thread where the head on the bolt starts is real small and it gets thicker toward the end of the bolt...well i asked them how much do i tighten it and they said to just do it until its real tight, a point where it won't move...then i got home, tore it apart and tighten it and then it just snapped :eek::bang: i was like OMFG!!!! well now im stuck with the whole bolt in my engine block and im still trying to figure out a way to drill it out or just take it to the shop...because if i drill it then the tiny metal shards will fly every into my engine, cam gears, pistons etc.....toyota people suck they dont know sh!t about our cars Grrrr!!! ill have pics to show you the difference between the stock and new bolts....DAMN Toyota!!
The new bolts are not, in any way shape or form weaker than the old bolts. The old bolts broke, plain and simple... they broke. The new bolts do not. My old bolts were very close to breaking when I changed them immediately after I bought the car. I changed them to the new bolts at around 40k miles. A new motor, new trans, a ton of misc engine parts and 30k miles later the bolts looked exactly like they did when I put them in. I beat the hell out of the Celica in that 30k miles and they looked beautiful. Your pictures prove nothing, quit bitching and go buy new bolts if you don't like how they look. Trying to tell me that you think the old bolts are stronger proves your ignorance on this topic. /conversation
The VQ35 is even worse with oil.
I beg to differ. I've owned the car for over 6k miles so far and have not had to add a single drop of oil. Track days and a healthy driving pattern and the oil has not moved on the stick. Unless you own a Rev-up motor... then you're screwed regardless, but that's a known flaw in that motor that Nissan covers.
GSBoek
10-27-2008, 08:49 AM
aww man that suck this same thing just happened to due to the new lift bolt i just bought from toyota...well the new bolts (in my opinion) are weaker than the stock ones... the thread where the head on the bolt starts is real small and it gets thicker toward the end of the bolt...well i asked them how much do i tighten it and they said to just do it until its real tight, a point where it won't move...then i got home, tore it apart and tighten it and then it just snapped :eek::bang: i was like OMFG!!!! well now im stuck with the whole bolt in my engine block and im still trying to figure out a way to drill it out or just take it to the shop...because if i drill it then the tiny metal shards will fly every into my engine, cam gears, pistons etc.....toyota people suck they dont know sh!t about our cars Grrrr!!! ill have pics to show you the difference between the stock and new bolts....DAMN Toyota!!
Unfortunately for you, you overtightened the liftbolts ;)
gts_02
10-27-2008, 04:08 PM
Unfortunately for you, you overtightened the liftbolts
yeah i know that but thats because toyota didnt tell me the amount to torque to put on it
but its all good...i drilled it out, working again ill buy some new bolts soon and try not to over tighten it again
Pulsar1
10-27-2008, 08:11 PM
I beg to differ. I've owned the car for over 6k miles so far and have not had to add a single drop of oil. Track days and a healthy driving pattern and the oil has not moved on the stick. Unless you own a Rev-up motor... then you're screwed regardless, but that's a known flaw in that motor that Nissan covers.
From what I heard, seen, and have happen oil comsuption is not uncommon among that VQ35DE's. Seriously it seems like a 50/50 shot among members on the Maxima forums. And you know those engines weren't driven hard often. Some have the problem and some don't. But yeah your right about the rev-up motors.
Any luck with this lawsuit? I just tried to change my bolts and one was broken and wedged.. I want to get them replaced and if there is any ongoing advance with this ill take it to toyota and let them do it
slidr
12-24-2008, 02:41 PM
Any luck with this lawsuit? I just tried to change my bolts and one was broken and wedged.. I want to get them replaced and if there is any ongoing advance with this ill take it to toyota and let them do it
They already reached a settlement.
28.4 million if I recall correctly. That's why Toyota posted a loss this quarter.
They already reached a settlement.
28.4 million if I recall correctly. That's why Toyota posted a loss this quarter.
So would I just take my car to toyota and they know what to do cause the guy at toyota didnt know what lift bots where and barley knew what a celica was.. aka toyota down here sucks, any link i can look at?
silentchaos
12-24-2008, 07:18 PM
lol and 01's i went through 2 motors 1 from my original motor at 85K (01') and the 2nd used motor from japan out of an 01' so i kept the jap motor design im not gonna explain it again i have a 1ZZ K85N. had it rebuilt with imported parts(yes the stronger rods from japan check wiki if you dont belive me) and im happy now with no issues and had a small overbore while it was getting rebuilt.
2nd off on a more direct answer to this thread.
toyota celica GTS takes on 2zz motor and discontinues use of it later on almost with in 7-8 years of its toyota life in the line. hmm wonder why? also if you can talk to an honest guy at a dealership in the shop area or someone who works for toyota. the 2zz was pushed out of the toyota line as fast as possible with the "XRS" catagory. XRS was toyotas way of makeing there money back and getting the motor out of their line because of poor design.
and the 1zz lives on. haha :fawk:
EDIT*
also a its an old topic but still true
1zz + lift would be > 2zz+lift
you are an idiot even with leaving out your mythical jdm crap.
#1 toyota did not discontinue the 2zz it is still used in the pontiac vibe, the lotus elise and the matrix.
#2 a 1zz+lift is not greater than a 2zz because a 1zz+lift IS a 2zz!
those 2 statements you made just proves you know nothing about cars and some mechanic probably told you a bunch of bullsh!t and you bought it and overpaid for "jdm" parts.
So would I just take my car to toyota and they know what to do cause the guy at toyota didnt know what lift bots where and barley knew what a celica was.. aka toyota down here sucks, any link i can look at?
reading>you
mega fail
sorry about the rant but when people say somethings i just cant stand there ignorance.
Dasher17
12-25-2008, 08:44 AM
you guys don't seem to understand what a class action lawsuit requires, or how they can be easily defeated with things like TSBs.
Lol seriously. I like how the OP thought he could make a difference.
They already reached a settlement.
28.4 million if I recall correctly. That's why Toyota posted a loss this quarter.
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
So would I just take my car to toyota and they know what to do cause the guy at toyota didnt know what lift bots where and barley knew what a celica was.. aka toyota down here sucks, any link i can look at?
Did you seriously go to Toyota and ask for "lift bolts"? lmao
No i knew the part number but he asked what it was a had no clue what it was,. in the case of sarcasm>me i dont give a **** i just want my car fixed
silentchaos
12-25-2008, 11:13 AM
^then do the TSB! thats why its there. its not rocket science.
Dasher17
12-26-2008, 02:59 PM
I think the thread in the repair section has a link to order them, or just search the forums thats how I found it when I first did it.
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