Called Toyota about the 03 GT-S... will be released in August, rev limit...

[Tony01Gts]

They are finding out the info on the rev limit for me. I will keep you guys updated.

[SilverRide]

I wouldn`t count on them lowering the rev limit on the `03`s.

Obviously, they lowered it to help elimnate blown engines and are not about to raise it again. They really don`t care about the vocaL minority who want to stress their engines to the limit and flirt with disaster.

[Pdiddy]

would you care if you were a business?

If you sold VCR's that included a part that allowed people to fast forward at 8x the normal rate, but that action caused 1/3 of the VCR's to fail while under warrenty, wouldn't you not include that feature in the next model? If you like making money (and I know you do), you wouldn't.

[Omni]

It's not an issue of the rev limit causing the problem, if it was they obviously would have lowered it on the matrix too (it has the same engine and transmission as far as I know). Of course they may have started production of the matrix long before the 02 celicas and thats why they have a higher limit.

[2002GT_Celica]

I doubt they are going to make the rev limit higher. Toyota just seems to not want to address the problem at all.

[FriedRice]

pdiddy has a valid point.... HOWEVER.... if u look at who's going to buy the 6-spd, its gonna be enthusiasts like the ones u see on this board.... if this board were representative of the entire celica population... u'd see 6-spds everywhere... most celicas sold are automatics..... the 6-spd should be for the enthusiast and with that being said.. it should show it...

[Stnicralisk]

does the lower rev limit make their horsepower claim invalid? doesnt the new model actually make less hp because it doesnt hit 8k

[Deftech]

No, the peak hp is somewhere aroung 7600 so their claims are still valid.

[NSX_GTR_LM]

Originally posted by SilverRide
I wouldn`t count on them lowering the rev limit on the `03`s.

Obviously, they lowered it to help elimnate blown engines and are not about to raise it again. They really don`t care about the vocaL minority who want to stress their engines to the limit and flirt with disaster.

the problem is that lower rev limit doesn't eliminate jack sheeit. If anything helped to eliminate blown engines, its the wider shift gates.

basically its like this. Those cars that hit 3rd instead of fifth and 2nd instead of fourth would have revved to about 13k had the engine let them do so. So now that the engine is 500 rpms lower in revlimit, it would have revved to about 12K. Either way, you are blowing your motor.

i highky doubt this had any REAL effect on the engine misshift problem. It probably had more to do with trying to have salesman pull out that info on people when they asked about the misshift problem.

They should have a recall on the 02 celica and fix the problem, and they should fix the problem for the 03. They have had statements published about the limiter being a glitch. I guess every 02 is a glitch

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by NSX_GTR_LM

the problem is that lower rev limit doesn't eliminate jack sheeit. If anything helped to eliminate blown engines, its the wider shift gates.

basically its like this. Those cars that hit 3rd instead of fifth and 2nd instead of fourth would have revved to about 13k had the engine let them do so. So now that the engine is 500 rpms lower in revlimit, it would have revved to about 12K. Either way, you are blowing your motor.


i highky doubt this had any REAL effect on the engine misshift problem. It probably had more to do with trying to have salesman pull out that info on people when they asked about the misshift problem.



Very good point. But that is probably still a good enough reason in Toyota's eyes NOT to do a damn thing to raise the rev limit back to where it used to be.

[NSX_GTR_LM]

i hear thattoo keyshawn, but if they are gonna keep it lower, they better address the problem instead of claiming a glitch. Its almost like its intentional. They told all the performanec magazines it was just a glitch in that car, and i am sure a few people went out to get one and didn't think their 02 would have a glitch. These people should have been informed.

[01 Spectra GT-S]

I say they make super wide shiftgate and drop the rev limiter to 7000rpm :D :D :D MUWAHAHAHA

that way my car will worth more :D :D :D

[Griffin]

Originally posted by NSX_GTR_LM

i highky doubt this had any REAL effect on the engine misshift problem. It probably had more to do with trying to have salesman pull out that info on people when they asked about the misshift problem.

They should have a recall on the 02 celica and fix the problem, and they should fix the problem for the 03. They have had statements published about the limiter being a glitch. I guess every 02 is a glitch

These 2 things contradict eachother. Ask anyone that has worked with Toyota as a tech or dealer or regional peeps, they aren't "the evil empire" if anything they are one of the more lenient and customer service oriented companies. I mean think of all the misshifts they have paid for. You don't see Acura or Honda picking up the tab for the RSX or S2000 when it happens.

I'll tell ya what *I* think happened. - I think that no-one bothered to tell whatever marketing shmuck Toyota sent to talk to the magazines about the change. I mean think about it - fuel cut is not and has never been a "published" spec from Toyota - they always just say "redline 7800" which we all of course ignored because the computer didn't shut us down until 8400. It also wan't listed in the 2002 New Car Features book they give out to techs with the new model update. Now I know what your thinking - this had to be obvious to anyone thats driven the car...

I don't know about that either. Most of the stuffed shirt types that might be involved in this probably scared themselves so bad they crapped their pants the first time they hit lift. Do you think THEY would have noticed or cared? I doubt it. And the guys on the technical side probably hate the guys in sales like every red blooded self respecting technical person should so THEY aren't about to tell them. Think about it - it makes sense. Toyota doesn't send engineers to talk to magazines, they send PR people. I don't know if you've ever met any large corporation PR people, but even the very best ones are VERY knowledgeable - within the EXACT confines of whatever printed technical info they have been given. So pretend you are this PR guy - you just took you companies best and brightest shiny new sports car to a magazine to be tested and the guy that drove it tells you it runs like a broke**** dog and the engine shuts off like 500 RPM before it should. You are faced with a guy who obviously knows more than you because the last time you took one of these cars home for the night you probably used it to take the wife to go get some wine and salad. Since you are a yuppy puke you don't bother flogging the car because you probably secretly despize the rice driving punks that you have to cater to because they might one day buy a Camry. So what do you say? I'll tell ya what you say.. "Hmm that must have been a Glitch"

I dunno its just a theory but I've been dealing with Toyota for a long time and at least on the technical side they don't usually jerk you around, (I'm not talking about dealers here - many of them are punks) but no-one knew anything about this when I asked em when I noticed it on the 02.


Now will they change it back for 2003? I think they might. They fixed your engines after you mis-shifted them didn't they. With the RSX, the WRX and teh Lancer edging into the market they HAVE to have a top of the line sports car that stands up for itself. Give the big difference in 1/4 mile times, I bet if enough people complained they would fix it for 03 and/or come out with a field fix. After all - the Matrix is 8400 - and they had MORE time to change that than the 2002 Celica... (remeber to them this is as simple as a couple lines of code in their ECM) So now people have complained... you know whats going on... if your TMS America what do you do? I'd fix it, if not make it better. Then again if I was them I would have updated the 3S-GTE along with an AWD powertrain and put THAT in, so who knows.

Griffin

BTW - I applogioze for my bitterness towards marketing, sales, and corporate stuffed shirts.

[Tony01Gts]

Originally posted by Griffin


These 2 things contradict eachother. Ask anyone that has worked with Toyota as a tech or dealer or regional peeps, they aren't "the evil empire" if anything they are one of the more lenient and customer service oriented companies. I mean think of all the misshifts they have paid for. You don't see Acura or Honda picking up the tab for the RSX or S2000 when it happens.

I'll tell ya what *I* think happened. - I think that no-one bothered to tell whatever marketing shmuck Toyota sent to talk to the magazines about the change. I mean think about it - fuel cut is not and has never been a "published" spec from Toyota - they always just say "redline 7800" which we all of course ignored because the computer didn't shut us down until 8400. It also wan't listed in the 2002 New Car Features book they give out to techs with the new model update. Now I know what your thinking - this had to be obvious to anyone thats driven the car...

I don't know about that either. Most of the stuffed shirt types that might be involved in this probably scared themselves so bad they crapped their pants the first time they hit lift. Do you think THEY would have noticed or cared? I doubt it. And the guys on the technical side probably hate the guys in sales like every red blooded self respecting technical person should so THEY aren't about to tell them. Think about it - it makes sense. Toyota doesn't send engineers to talk to magazines, they send PR people. I don't know if you've ever met any large corporation PR people, but even the very best ones are VERY knowledgeable - within the EXACT confines of whatever printed technical info they have been given. So pretend you are this PR guy - you just took you companies best and brightest shiny new sports car to a magazine to be tested and the guy that drove it tells you it runs like a broke**** dog and the engine shuts off like 500 RPM before it should. You are faced with a guy who obviously knows more than you because the last time you took one of these cars home for the night you probably used it to take the wife to go get some wine and salad. Since you are a yuppy puke you don't bother flogging the car because you probably secretly despize the rice driving punks that you have to cater to because they might one day buy a Camry. So what do you say? I'll tell ya what you say.. "Hmm that must have been a Glitch"

I dunno its just a theory but I've been dealing with Toyota for a long time and at least on the technical side they don't usually jerk you around, (I'm not talking about dealers here - many of them are punks) but no-one knew anything about this when I asked em when I noticed it on the 02.


Now will they change it back for 2003? I think they might. They fixed your engines after you mis-shifted them didn't they. With the RSX, the WRX and teh Lancer edging into the market they HAVE to have a top of the line sports car that stands up for itself. Give the big difference in 1/4 mile times, I bet if enough people complained they would fix it for 03 and/or come out with a field fix. After all - the Matrix is 8400 - and they had MORE time to change that than the 2002 Celica... (remeber to them this is as simple as a couple lines of code in their ECM) So now people have complained... you know whats going on... if your TMS America what do you do? I'd fix it, if not make it better. Then again if I was them I would have updated the 3S-GTE along with an AWD powertrain and put THAT in, so who knows.

Griffin

BTW - I applogioze for my bitterness towards marketing, sales, and corporate stuffed shirts.

Amen... finally someone with some brains in socialogy! I agree Toyota is digging themselves a grave with lowering GT-S performance.

NSX_GTR_LM--- These are my thoughts exactly... I have people at Go Toyota, Customer Assistance, and I have also emailed throught toyota.com about the 03 and the rev limit.


lets all do this... everyone go to www.toyota.com and find the feedback form (its's a mofo to find, but send them an email about the 02 03 revlimiter asking them why it's 7800 and complaining about the performance. Make our voices heard. Call Go Toyota... call Customer Assistance!!! Lets get this solved!

[Tony01Gts]

http://www.toyota.com/html/about/contact/index.html

Then click on FAQ page and send the customer assistance center and email!

[GTS LAID]

I think they will be raising the rev limiter )

tooth fairy doesnt lie!

as for toyota corporate... they've paid for their "mistake" million fold... even though some would argue no mistake was committed.

[Tony01Gts]

Originally posted by GTS LAID
I think they will be raising the rev limiter )

tooth fairy doesnt lie!

as for toyota corporate... they've paid for their "mistake" million fold... even though some would argue no mistake was committed.

Tooth fairy? Where you get your info (you can be vague but not as vague as tooth fairy)

Do you mean the 7800 mistake and how do you think they have paid for it a "million fold"?

[gts24]

http://toyota.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/toyota.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php


CLICK THE ABOVE LINK TO GET DIRECTLY TO TONY'S POST.

[GTS LAID]

Originally posted by Tony01Gts


Tooth fairy? Where you get your info (you can be vague but not as vague as tooth fairy)

Do you mean the 7800 mistake and how do you think they have paid for it a "million fold"?

people that know things about things... remember you dont have to get angry.. you can just not believe me...

[Patches]

O.K. correct me if I'm mistaken here, with any of my info.
I don't think they will raise fuel cut off for '03.
People keep bringing up the Matrix, and the 82-8400 RPM limit, but they forget that it has an added 200+ pounds of weight plus large wheels to start.
Now I'm running an '01 gt-s 6speed, 16in. wheels. When my bud gets in(250 lb.) my car is slugish feels like its crawling. I don't race when he's in the car, I'll lose, the car just has no pickup with him in it.
Large wheels cause this problem to be worse, so you won't be getting up to speed as fast. I don't see people with the matrix going from 18" to 16's to pick up speed(some might??). So the Matrix won't be thrashed as hard as a gt-s, so theres less likely hood of it being overreved.

The second point, 13000rpm...hmm, I've heard 10,500-11,000 as the max overrev and at those speeds, bye,bye engine, but 500rpms can mean alot, I've heard that our engines can that between 85-9600rpms. And lately the only people that are having trouble with knocking or cel sware that they have not misshifted.
just my .02

[Griffin]

Originally posted by Patches
O.K. correct me if I'm mistaken here, with any of my info.
I don't think they will raise fuel cut off for '03.
People keep bringing up the Matrix, and the 82-8400 RPM limit, but they forget that it has an added 200+ pounds of weight plus large wheels to start.
Now I'm running an '01 gt-s 6speed, 16in. wheels. When my bud gets in(250 lb.) my car is slugish feels like its crawling. I don't race when he's in the car, I'll lose, the car just has no pickup with him in it.
Large wheels cause this problem to be worse, so you won't be getting up to speed as fast. I don't see people with the matrix going from 18" to 16's to pick up speed(some might??). So the Matrix won't be thrashed as hard as a gt-s, so theres less likely hood of it being overreved.

Your logic is a little backwards. There is actually a GREATER danger of destructive over-rev. The gearing is identical and the Matrix (as you said) has more mass... which means if you are at say 85 in 5th and you got to hit 6th and wind up in 4th there is even more force being transmitted back up the drivetrain into teh endine than with teh slightly less massice celica. This means that there is even greater potential for massive damage if you don't pop the clutch as soon as yousee what is happening. As for how hard it will be driven... its a 6 speed manual... I gaurandamntee ya that people are gonna drive the wheels off 'em just like we do with the Celi. BTW - my wifes Matrix XRS I just ordered comes with a MAX wheel size of 16 if you want a sunroof.

The second point, 13000rpm...hmm, I've heard 10,500-11,000 as the max overrev and at those speeds, bye,bye engine, but 500rpms can mean alot, I've heard that our engines can that between 85-9600rpms. And lately the only people that are having trouble with knocking or cel sware that they have not misshifted.
just my .02

If this were so important to Toyota why isn't one if the low fuel cut 01 ECMs part of the package when they do a mis-shift repair? All that gets done is the trans shift gates and that seems to be pretty damn effective. I imagine the warranty department at Toyota is FULLY aware of that fact.

The bottom line is it doesn't do them any good to sell a car that won't misshift but no-one wants to buy.

Griffin

[Griffin]

Originally posted by Tony01Gts


Amen... finally someone with some brains in socialogy! I agree Toyota is digging themselves a grave with lowering GT-S performance.



Which is eactly why I think the rev limiter is coming back up where it belongs for 2003. Even without GTS LAID's source it makes too much sense. I have never seen Toyota INTENTIONALLY lie about somethign to the public - it would be VERY stupid for them to do. Hence the only thing that makes sense is that whoever got asked didnt know... Now that guy had to eat some serious crow as we all know so he probably went and took it out on whoever made the change in the first place... and once hey saw teh 1/4 mile and 0-60 times compared to the RSX they probably got all white in the face and made some frantic calls to engineering in Japan telling em that there was a TEENSY lil change they need for next year.

Griffin

[EzRidA]

Originally posted by Griffin


Which is eactly why I think the rev limiter is coming back up where it belongs for 2003. Even without GTS LAID's source it makes too much sense. I have never seen Toyota INTENTIONALLY lie about somethign to the public - it would be VERY stupid for them to do. Hence the only thing that makes sense is that whoever got asked didnt know... Now that guy had to eat some serious crow as we all know so he probably went and took it out on whoever made the change in the first place... and once hey saw teh 1/4 mile and 0-60 times compared to the RSX they probably got all white in the face and made some frantic calls to engineering in Japan telling em that there was a TEENSY lil change they need for next year.

Griffin

So let's say Toyota moves the limiter back up. What could 02' owners do. I mean wouldn't we have a viable law suit against Toyota if they refuse to change our limiter? If they would change, then I'm suddendly hesitant to change it myself. This puts me in between a rock and a hard place. What to do, what to do............

[celicauk]

Not trying to be offensive but I think the mis-shift is mainly an American problem. I don't know of anyone here in the UK who has blown there motor due to mis-shift, show of hands if thats wrong please. My guess is a lot of the people blowing the engine are just not used to driving a manual box, they then get a nice little sports car and blatt around in it, changing at speed and whammo, they miss one and it all goes wrong from there. I have mis-shifted myself but due to the experience I have with manuals, ie 12 years driving them, and having driven most of them at speed I am able to prevent problems as I can react faster to the problem.

I know there are guys on this board who have no problems at all with manual cars, they can shift just as well as I can and probably better where they are racers.

As for Toyota changing the car in '03, why would they? the Gen8 is due late '03 early '04.

[Griffin]

Originally posted by EzRidA


So let's say Toyota moves the limiter back up. What could 02' owners do. I mean wouldn't we have a viable law suit against Toyota if they refuse to change our limiter? If they would change, then I'm suddendly hesitant to change it myself. This puts me in between a rock and a hard place. What to do, what to do............

You would have no grounds for a lawsuit because your car performs exactly as it did when you bought it and the fuel cut is at the factory stated redline. Where you may have some room for argument is overall loss of performance.

anyways heres teh dilema. Toyota can't put and 01 ECM in your car because CARB and teh EPA would be all over their butts, and after the 36billion dollar lawsuit that Toyot settled outof court with CARB (CARB basically wound up eating a lot of crow) I'm sure they are not anting to get on their bad side.

Ok so that leaves the possibility of dropping a 2003 ECM in. EPA wise that would be fine... problem is the Celica is up for a minor model refresh this year, which often means small engine tweaks and stuff... if they make any major system changes the ECM won't be backwards compatible.

That leaves them with developing a new 2002 ECM with a higher fuel cut. Not gonna hapen UNTIL we make a stink and Toyota gets a lot of calls. They are a customer driven company and if they get enough complaints they WILL fix the stuff. But from a technical standpoint I think you would have a hard time finding a lawyer willing to take the case unless you can come up with performance numbers PUBLISHED BY TOYOTA that are not matched by the 2002. Probably better to spend your time barraging them with phone calls, e-mails, etc. about the rev limiter in the 2002 and future models.

Here are the basic arguments that can be made that actually hold water:

1 - As of this moment the resale-ability of you vehicle has been affected by this change. a 2001 is actually PREFERABLE to a 2002 which is insane.

2 - The performance is LESS than that of the previous year and there was no indication that it would be such when you purchased the vehicle

3 - If Toyota does not make this right then you will elect to go elsewhere for your next new car purchase

If you all hit the customer service peeps with those 3 points and THREATEN to pursue a class action if NO action is taken you will probably see something happen. But if you actually go straight to a lawsuit they may just fall back to their defense of the car is performing as designed and has not changed since purchase they would probably win.

Either way if you already have the parts this mod need NOT be unreversable - just save the ECM and knock sensor and if/when they agree to fix it toss the original parts back in and go get your update. But honestly even if they DO decide to fix it they will have to prototype the ECM, send it to CARB and teh EPA for testing, put it into production and build enough inventory to replace all the ones that have complained. Thats gauranteed to take a couple months at least, probably half a year.

Griffin

[EzRidA]

I'll call tommorow and see what kind of new response I can get out of them. I've tried option #2 to no avail. I just need more support from 02'ers on this. One person can't get the 10k or so 02' 6spd gt-s's fixed.

[Deftech]

The reality is that Toyota will play a numbers game. How many 2002 GTS Models did they actually sell in the US (Maybe North America) with the lowered rev limiter. vs. How many actual customers complain about the issue and own the car. If it is a majority then they may consider a fix. If not they will most likley continue to blow it off as they see no real threat in loss of name or sale. They will send any info and reports from the customers through an accountants nightmare before deciding what to do.

Anyone know where to get sales numbers for North America?

[twanmoney]

sent complaints via that webpage like all the time
02 owner.....(lease)............looking for a fix =\

[Griffin]

Originally posted by Deftech
The reality is that Toyota will play a numbers game. How many 2002 GTS Models did they actually sell in the US (Maybe North America) with the lowered rev limiter. vs. How many actual customers complain about the issue and own the car. If it is a majority then they may consider a fix. If not they will most likley continue to blow it off as they see no real threat in loss of name or sale. They will send any info and reports from the customers through an accountants nightmare before deciding what to do.

Anyone know where to get sales numbers for North America?

I think your being a little pessimistic... I think that probably 50 to 100 calls would be enough to get some action taken.

Griffin

[Tony01Gts]

I'm agreeing with Griffin all the way on all the above posts ... read my post "Band together...." in g discussion. Let's rally together and bug the hell out of these guys.

[GTS LAID]

Originally posted by Griffin


Which is eactly why I think the rev limiter is coming back up where it belongs for 2003. Even without GTS LAID's source it makes too much sense. I have never seen Toyota INTENTIONALLY lie about somethign to the public - it would be VERY stupid for them to do. Hence the only thing that makes sense is that whoever got asked didnt know... Now that guy had to eat some serious crow as we all know so he probably went and took it out on whoever made the change in the first place... and once hey saw teh 1/4 mile and 0-60 times compared to the RSX they probably got all white in the face and made some frantic calls to engineering in Japan telling em that there was a TEENSY lil change they need for next year.

Griffin

thanks for the vote of confidence Griffin... it means a lot coming from you ! ;)

[gts24]

What do you guys think about the possibility of a "suspension modified" Version of the Celica.

I say this because the Sportivo kit has been cancelled from TRD. Stuff like this usually happens when toyota plans to remarket it somehow....

thoughts?>>>

[B-GTS]

Okay, I just emailed Toyota.com using the above link. So far I have emailed to Toyota.ca(Canada's site) about 12 times and numerous telephone calls to no avail. I think they have broken my spine with their ignorance to this subject!

Point being... if we even get 20 people to email them today and everyday afterwords they will be forced to address this issue properly. So instead of complaining to each other on this and other websites, let's channel our energy towards Toyota. (Christ, I sound like a freaking preacher! LOL)

[CSteckel]

Can I get an AMEN???

[Tony01Gts]

Can I get a PRAISE NC.ORG????? read my post in g. discussion all addys and phone #s there! post is band together blah blah

[NSX_GTR_LM]

It simply makes no sense. They need to raise the rev limiter up, and have a recall on the 02's

[Tony01Gts]

Well after waiting on hold at Toyota Customer assistance I spoke to a guy there about the 03. He said they have no specs on the 03 and that they won't be available to him for another month. I told him that I knew SOMEONE had to know because the car has to already be in production. I explained to him that I am going to arbitration and that I felt if they gave me an 02 with a lower rev limit that I would be getting a car that performed worse than the car that I bought (I quoted this site and SCC). Of course, he had never heard of the 02 rev limit problem, no one I've spoken to at Toyota ever has. Anyhow, he put a note about it in my arbitration case file... so... we'll just have to wait and see what happens. Where else can we call to get info about the 03?

[GTS LAID]

do you speak japanese...

the 03's will have a higher rev limtier... tell them you obtained information from people that know these things... you dont want to divulge your sources, and that they were the ones unsure, not you, which pretty much makes it their problem... again not yours.

Its also going to have other changes to it making it different from an 02... if i were you i'd pressure them into finding out officially what the 03 is going to have... use a lawyer or something.

[Deftech]

I don't mean to be pessemistic, But I really don't think Toyota will change it back. They would be opening themselves to a number of complaints from people who have '02 GTS. I don't really see them admiting to having made a mistake. If they do great! Better chance to see some real developement for the car.


I'll take everyone elses optomistic point of view and send an email myself. Couldn't hurt right.

[EzRidA]

My view isn't optimistic, but my resolve is hell bent on getting this sh!t fixed.

[Tony01Gts]

praying: please change it back... please change it back... please change it back...

What other changes do you see in your crystal ball GTS LAID? Did you get my email?

[CSteckel]

Honestly,
I don't think it would be a problem if they changed the 03's back. I'm sure they would come up with a quick reprogram/swap or something for the 02's if it were requested by the owners to bring them up to the 03 platform. That is if the 03's even change. Tony, I'm in the SAME exact boat with you on the arbitration thing for a new celi. My 1st request is a "repurchase" where Toyota buys my car back, but I think I'll end up getting screwed on that one so I am most likely going to go with the swap and I WILL NOT accept a lower rev limit car because of the lower street value! Keep me posted on your progress and decisions...maybe we can use/quote/inform each other to help get what we want??

[LEDmod]

Originally posted by Deftech
I don't mean to be pessemistic, But I really don't think Toyota will change it back. They would be opening themselves to a number of complaints from people who have '02 GTS. I don't really see them admiting to having made a mistake. If they do great! Better chance to see some real developement for the car.


I'll take everyone elses optomistic point of view and send an email myself. Couldn't hurt right.

Hmm they do admit to mistakes..
Look at the recalls... that is admitting to mistakes and fix theird mistakes..

[Deftech]

Recalls only happen when there is a proven Design or manufacturing flaw. And these are proven when people repeatedly have to bring back the car for some sort of problem, or an accident occurs due to the defect. Not because they want to admit that they messed up, because it is costing them more money to repeatedly fix something than it would to replace them, or could pose a danger to the people driving the car.

Anyone ever try to get their rev limiter fixed under warrenty? Just go in and complain that a friend who has the same model has a different fuel cut off and you want to make sure that you do not have a faulty sensor and or tach that is inaccurate.

[gts24]

Originally posted by Dooly


Hmm they do admit to mistakes..
Look at the recalls... that is admitting to mistakes and fix theird mistakes..


uhhhh what recalls? their hasn't been a single one yet for any Celica.

[GTS LAID]

i think he's just speaking generally of toyota recalls...

as for other changes... i'm not exactly sure about the other ones/I cant tell yet!! but when i can i'll let you guys know right away.

as for reprogramming the ECU... thats not gonna happen anytime soon... they'd ship new ECUs before they do that since its more efficient... and you're forgetting that the 02 has the same knock sensor as the 03.. and both of those are different from the 01 and 00... which means that in theory you could only swap the 03 ECU into the 02 without actually doing any modifications to the sensors or harnesses... But in fact thats not even true since the 03 has different features that utilize diff. ECU programs.

[Tony01Gts]

Well I guess we'll have to wait to see in August..

[LEDmod]

Originally posted by gts24



uhhhh what recalls? their hasn't been a single one yet for any Celica.

In general terms.... my avalon had recall.. got actual letter from toyota..... and they fix it ASAP...

[00 scrub]

Didn't Acura have to fix all the ECUs on RSX's 3 days after they were released? I heard from a clubrsx member that they just flashed the ECU and updated it.

[Griffin]

Originally posted by 00 scrub
Didn't Acura have to fix all the ECUs on RSX's 3 days after they were released? I heard from a clubrsx member that they just flashed the ECU and updated it.

Not all ECMs are the same. The Celica ECM is NOT reprogrammable - it has to be replaced.

Griffin