EMU Software V2.20 map tracing...

[Gravel]

Hi guys, I am trying to tune my Greddy s/c setup using v2.20 but I am having a few problems.

Firstly, does the Injector Adjustment Map 2 (Q) highlight the appropriate cell when you drag the cursor line through the log charts on other versions of the S/W? On V2.20 the ignition adjustment highlights in red, but the I/J Adj doesn't - or perhaps it just highlights in white and I need to set the colour scheme or something?

Also, I seem to be getting knock at partial throttle around 5,000 rpm, because according to the log, I have an AFR of 17.1 at an airflow of 3.29v and according to my MAP sensor, zero absolute pressure (just about to go +ve). This is despite what the S/W is claiming is an INJ adjustment of +56% - my injectors seem to only be at 34% duty cycle!

So what's going on here - is the S/W flakey, or do I have the world's largest -ve Fuel Trim buggering me in this cell?

Here's a screen shot of what I'm on about.

http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/447886185_gCeLS-O.jpg

Cheers.

[jlitman]

Joe,

Yes, so long as the map is open whrn you use the cursor in the datalog window, the corresponding map cells will light up in red. Possibly, you are activating the accel inj map right there but not hte main inj map (did you check that? Also see below). Does it activate a cell in the inj map at other locations in the datalog?

On that datalog I only see MAP dropping off on decel and what I'm guessing are gearshifts as they follow a small bump in the RPM -- I don't see what you are talking about, but it might be that something is scaled inproperly with the output -- it clearly builds boost with RPM.

As to the AFR, unless you have the dipswitch set to turn inj map 2 off, it should be working fine, and you just need to add more fuel until you have the desired AFR. I suppose it's possible you have a high negative fuel trim there mucking with things.

The other possiblity is that you don't have the right scale set up for your wideband. Select NEKO and enter 10 - 19.5 to get it scaled right.

Actually, now that I think about it, it's probably just flashing lean on tip-in, which means you need to add a lot (try a correction of 25% or more and a decay of 280 msec) on you accel ign map. Does it feel momnentarily laggy when you accelerate? If so, that would all make sense.

Do you hear it pinging there? Pull another degree of timing from the corresponding ign map or accel ign (tip-in) map.

Also, do you have the target map on for when you under load? If so, get the tune close to 12.5 - 12.0 (richer as you get into higher load) across the board under load, then lock it in with correpsonding values in the target map. A tad richer if you don't have 98 or higher RON for additional safety.

[jlitman]

One other thing -- I gaurantee you that you have waaaay too much fuel being added in part thorttle.

For now, 1500 -3000 x 2.0 - 3.0 v should be zeroed out. Rest the ECU, let fuel trims stabilize, then dial in some correction after monitoring in keeping with the suggestions in my tuning sticky.

[Gravel]

Joe,

Yes, so long as the map is open whrn you use the cursor in the datalog window, the corresponding map cells will light up in red. Possibly, you are activating the accel inj map right there but not hte main inj map (did you check that? Also see below). Does it activate a cell in the inj map at other locations in the datalog?


If I scroll through the datalog, it doesn't ever seem to light up in that INJ map - but that map is definately enabled in the S/W - do the DIP switches override the S/W dialog? I'll have to check them in the morning (it's 1 am now).


On that datalog I only see MAP dropping off on decel and what I'm guessing are gearshifts as they follow a small bump in the RPM -- I don't see what you are talking about, but it might be that something is scaled inproperly with the output -- it clearly builds boost with RPM.

As to the AFR, unless you have the dipswitch set to turn inj map 2 off, it should be working fine, and you just need to add more fuel until you have the desired AFR. I suppose it's possible you have a high negative fuel trim there mucking with things.

The other possiblity is that you don't have the right scale set up for your wideband. Select NEKO and enter 10 - 19.5 to get it scaled right.



The A/F is set up as SARD 10-20 and to my eye, it's spot on with the UEGO display. Just where the vertical cursor line is, the AFR is 17ish - I cross checked my ODB logs, and it looks like it just swung into open loop there - could that be part of the problem, and if so, would increasing the airflow correction around that area make the ECU have a better baseline inj duration?

I have been logging my LTFTs as per your Sticky, and so far, all of them are +ve and all of them are <10 but I do have some holes map of LTFTs.


Actually, now that I think about it, it's probably just flashing lean on tip-in, which means you need to add a lot (try a correction of 25% or more and a decay of 280 msec) on you accel ign map. Does it feel momnentarily laggy when you accelerate? If so, that would all make sense.

Do you hear it pinging there? Pull another degree of timing from the corresponding ign map or accel ign (tip-in) map.



I have a Knock-Link display on my dash, with 2 green, two amber and a big red 'back the feck off' light on the top. The red one lights up just before the ping is audible, by which time I'm back off the throttle - hence the accelerator trace dropping rapidly.

The odd thing is that the throttle response is great, and it only pings when on part throttle, at about 4.5-5k rpm as I accelerate gently. If I floor it from < 3000 rpm, it hits lift without pinging - so I'm wondering if it is indeed a closed->open loop transition issue.


Also, do you have the target map on for when you under load? If so, get the tune close to 12.5 - 12.0 (richer as you get into higher load) across the board under load, then lock it in with correpsonding values in the target map. A tad richer if you don't have 98 or higher RON for additional safety.

I am running UK 98 RON, and am generally richer than 12.0 once at +ve boost pressure. I haven't tried the AFR target map yet though - and wouldn't I need a map of the ECU's closed/open loop status to fill it in correctly?

Thanks a million for your help so far - I'm off to bed now but will check this thread again before I revise my maps for my next tweak and log session tomorrow!

Cheers.

[jlitman]

Hey Joe,
YGPM -- I think if you are pinging in part throttle, the best bet is to pull a degree of timing as you can't really mess with the AFR -- all you can do is dial out fuel trims.

[Gravel]

I am such a twat - the INJ Map 2 was disabled by the front panel switch :(

That's why the map trace didn't highlight anything - it wasn't using the fecking map at all!

As far as I can tell, only the injector correction, airflow correction and accelerator related maps were active. Hence why I could safely enter boost if I was mashing the accelerator, but it would lean out and ping at constant throttle!

I now have much more fuel everywhere, and I can start to fix that once I have logged and fixed my fuel trims. Phew. :D

I did play with adding an AF target map, but my Emanage won't use it as the s/c kit harness is missing the water-temp wires :rolleyes:

I might try and source a complete cable and swap the water-temp and knock wires into my setup. The weather here is currently 0C (32F in old money) and I doubt the fuel trims I'm logging now will work right in the summer.

Thanks for all your help!

[Avendit]

Our weather doesn't vary that much here really - I set and forget the fuel trims. I used to check them, but the whole map drifts up and down through out the year, so do a tune in spring then just check that the map as a whole is drifting a little. Its the transitions between drastically different LTFT in adjacent cells that creates drivability problems, and in the UK that yearly cycle shouldn't take you out of the acceptable +-10 range I don't think. I appreciate that our friends in the US face larger yearly variations in their driving conditions than we do.

Avendit
(although I did see -10 on the ext temp sensor last week, but thats a once yearly occurrence! not worth tuning for really)

[jlitman]

Our weather doesn't vary that much here really - I set and forget the fuel trims. I used to check them, but the whole map drifts up and down through out the year, so do a tune in spring then just check that the map as a whole is drifting a little. Its the transitions between drastically different LTFT in adjacent cells that creates drivability problems, and in the UK that yearly cycle shouldn't take you out of the acceptable +-10 range I don't think. I appreciate that our friends in the US face larger yearly variations in their driving conditions than we do.

Avendit
(although I did see -10 on the ext temp sensor last week, but thats a once yearly occurrence! not worth tuning for really)
Agreed.

Generally if you see an unusual amount of fluctuation between two cells on the Greddy map, it means you need to add another interval between them or just try and tune around it as best you can (i.e., live with it).

I'm periodically tempted to create a huge map using inj1/ign1 and inj2/ign2 together (you can run them both at once, and have one map pick up where the other one leaves off) to account for a wider range of load x RPM ... but I'll think Ill wait until I have another car to drive around. That would be a ton of rescaling and retuning...

Joe -- definitely get that water temp wired in! A lot of people incorrectly think of the target map as an "auto tune" -- it's not! No such thing!

What the target map enables you to do is to create a simple closed loop function, thus locking in your tune, and enabling it to self correct under different ambient conidtions.

Closing the loop in WOT is where it's at for consistency over a range of conditions.

[Gravel]

What the target map enables you to do is to create a simple closed loop function, thus locking in your tune, and enabling it to self correct under different ambient conidtions.

Closing the loop in WOT is where it's at for consistency over a range of conditions.

Sounds like a good idea to me - the temp was -6C yesterday, I can't believe the tune would work fine at 35C too!

I think I've found somewhere (funkyparts) in the UK that does Greddy bits - they're really not that easy to find over here.

[Gravel]

Just how much timing have people with the Greddy kit have to pull on half decent fuel (98RON)? I've got knock around the lift transition and I've already pulled 3 degrees of timing.

[jlitman]

Just how much timing have people with the Greddy kit have to pull on half decent fuel (98RON)? I've got knock around the lift transition and I've already pulled 3 degrees of timing.
Are you still running lean in that spot? If you are around 12.xx:1 and seeing evidence of knock, all you can do is pull timing or enrichen the mixture slightly :shrugs:

I think pulling 3 to 4 degrees is not unreasonable. You can also try a colder set of plugs.

You know, I wonder if the European ECU's are tuned a bit differently... that could be why you need to pull a little more timing.

[Gravel]

Are you still running lean in that spot? If you are around 12.xx:1 and seeing evidence of knock, all you can do is pull timing or enrichen the mixture slightly :shrugs:

I think pulling 3 to 4 degrees is not unreasonable. You can also try a colder set of plugs.

You know, I wonder if the European ECU's are tuned a bit differently... that could be why you need to pull a little more timing.

I don't think I'm lean, but I need to remove the acceleration correction to be sure.

Just replaced all my plugs with NGK 8-heat range ones - the old ones were very sooty, so I'd not be surprised if I had pre-ignition due to glowing embers!

Anyway, time for another logging run before bed!