Scion news

[celicajonz]

saw this car at TORC :drool:

sounds like a beast too.

[Boosted2.0]

Thats a lot of rubber under that car.

Cool deal - I hope they do well. I can't see them beating the RX8 though...

[Motor]

http://www.leftlanenews.com/going-mainstream-scions-newest-problem.html
LOS ANGELES — Scion got off to a fast start five years ago, but now Toyota executives are forced to rethink their funky experiment — and do it a lot sooner than they expected.

At issue is Scion's mission — and whether the idea behind the trendy brand still makes sense.

A year after the second generation of Scion's youth-oriented vehicles debuted, Toyota faces several problems:

-- The number of young people shopping Scion has dropped dramatically since 2006.

-- Before $4-a-gallon gasoline gave all small cars a big boost in April and May, Scion was in a slump it couldn't seem to get out of. And in June, sales were declining again.

-- While the brand had attracted fuel-economy-minded buyers, many are much older than Scion's demographic target: 18- to 24-year-olds. That threatens the hipster image Toyota has carefully cultivated for Scion.

So was launching a youth brand such a hot idea after all?

"If we could relaunch Scion, I wouldn't ever have called it a youth brand, because it's a kiss of death," says Brian Bolain, a former Scion corporate manager who now runs Lexus' lifestyle events. "It creates problems when you start labeling."

Bolain says it is better when a brand can speak for itself.

"Scion is being forced to change," says Jeri Yoshizu, Scion's manager of sales and promotions.

"We have to refresh our message and move our picture to the new 18- to 24-year-olds."

But the constantly shifting target makes marketing a challenge, Yoshizu says.

The first-generation Scions were big hits with young buyers when they launched in California in 2003 and elsewhere in 2004.

But from last September through January, monthly sales declined from each previous month, even though dealers had two redesigned models in their showrooms. Year-on-year sales fell for 17 straight months.

The losing streak ended in March. Then when fuel prices soared in April, Scion sales shot up 41.5 percent compared with the previous April, when barely any cars were in stock during the first generation's selldown. Sales climbed 28.4 percent in May but were down again in June.

Why the slump?

What's going on? Well, online shopping of Scion is barely half of what it was during the boom years of 2005 and 2006, according to industry analyst Compete Inc. At that time, Scion routinely attracted 100,000 to 120,000 Internet shoppers a month. Since the launch of the redesigned xB and xD last summer, Scion has scratched 60,000 Internet shoppers only once.

And the number of 18- to 34-year-olds shopping the brand also has declined sharply.

"Scion is not attracting its targeted audience as well as it had in 2004-2005 and even as recently as 2006," says Hal Wurster, managing director of Compete's automotive practice.

Jack Hollis, Scion's vice president, acknowledges the challenges. But he says his measure of success is not sales numbers but whether Scion is luring new, young customers to Toyota.

"How do we expand without making Scion into a traditional car company?" Hollis asks. "Experimenting with an automotive brand is tricky in a down market because it magnifies the risk. But if you don't try anything, then you are just the same as the entire industry."

Says Jim Lentz, president of Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. Inc. and the first vice president of Scion: "The original Scion goal was all about transparency and reducing time to purchase cars and vehicle personalization, and none of that has changed. Scion still remains relevant today."

What would you do if you were in charge of Scion? How would you get Scion out of its slump? Would you add another model? Would you import funky Toyota's (i.e. original xB) sold overseas and sell them here? Add a low cost hybrid?

[GSBoek]

lowcost hybrid MUV

[blacken]

cheaper and sportier
its always in style
teens always want to look hot and sporty =D
but dont want to spend alot of money

[Zero]

Introduce a Scion motorbike. :shrugs: That's whay I'd try out.

Just like with the introduction of the first gens in Cali, I'd want to have a test run on Motorbikes.

Gas prices are rising (and dropping apparently) and with the current targeted age groups moving onto other things, who's to say that this demographic isn't interested in a bike? Now with the newer young demographics, this may be a problem, but it did say that Scion didn't want to forget about the people who were in it from the start.

Sounds stupid, but it's a thought. :wiggle: A nice sport bike would be nice. A total image shaker, different from the boring old parent company and luxury division.

[Beast]

I would end this subforum.

[Sty09]

Introduce a Scion motorbike. :shrugs: That's whay I'd try out.

Just like with the introduction of the first gens in Cali, I'd want to have a test run on Motorbikes.

Gas prices are rising (and dropping apparently) and with the current targeted age groups moving onto other things, who's to say that this demographic isn't interested in a bike? Now with the newer young demographics, this may be a problem, but it did say that Scion didn't want to forget about the people who were in it from the start.

Sounds stupid, but it's a thought. :wiggle: A nice sport bike would be nice. A total image shaker, different from the boring old parent company and luxury division.

When people want to buy a bike, they are going to go for the traditional brands (Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, suzuki..)

[Automaton]

Get rid of the XD. It's too much like the Matrix, and it isn't very sporty.

Update the TC giving it a more sport-luxury feel. Think sporty young-looking wannabe 3-series BMW. It's all about the bling. If you can do a hybrid TC that gets 38MPG for $20k then go for it.

Keep the XB sporty, but give it more cargo space and travel-friendly options like navigation, roof racks, removable rear seats, etc. so you can take it on longer trips.

Add a small sports coupe along the lines of the base model Celica or RSX. More sporty, and less luxury than the TC.

[BrianGTS]

fire whomever came up with the new xB and xD design. When I first saw them revealed on a trip to Miami, I said to myself " well, thats it. No one is gonna buy this crap". I was right.

[XxGot2XLR8NYXxX]

fire whomever came up with the new xB and xD design. When I first saw them revealed on a trip to Miami, I said to myself " well, thats it. No one is gonna buy this crap". I was right.

That is exactly the same thing that I was thinking when I saw them at the car convention here at the Orange County Convention Center.

What they should do is introduce another coupe and make it really sporty and affordable for the young kids theyre trying to attract. Another problem they have tho is that there are so many damn people with tCs. When I was looking at cars to buy I considered the tC, but then when I realized that every other little bastarrd had one too I changed my mind quick. No one wants to drive a car that everybody owns.

[ZaneMan]

They need to treat their cars like fads. Yeah the Tc was the cool thing to have for awhile, now its played itself out and needs to be redone. Americans like bouncing around to differant things, if they realease another "quote on quote" cool car it will probably sell decent. Change your car design every 4 years that way not to many people will be driving the same car, and ruin the image.

[Motor]

I would end this subforum.

you're so edgy.

Change your car design every 4 years that way not to many people will be driving the same car, and ruin the image.

I remember when Scion was first introduced, that was their initial strategy for each vehicle. Then they became complacent like their parent company. I agree, Scion should reduce the life cycle of their cars and keep them "distinctive."

I was browsing Toyota Japans website and I think these would make for some good Scions:
AYGO
http://www.carbodydesign.com/news/2004-12-01-psa-toyota/Toyota%20Aygo.jpg
http://www.benfieldmotorgroup.com/images/vehicles/TOYOTA/AYGO/2005/3MC_270.JPG
http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/T/toyota/aygo/03-large/05-int.jpg
RUSH
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn75/niedzal/Toyota_Rush_21.jpg
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story/C8F27503F4D53A5BCA257103000F5667/$file/Toyota_Rush_Rear.jpg

A minicar and an entry level suv which is fuel efficient and what the RAV4 used to be -- small and diminutive.

[Sty09]

Has anyone seen Scions new commercial?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkZ9B45PZMs

:laugh: :laugh:

It looks almost as bad as a celica meet.


:wave: Scion

[Motor]

as anyone seen Scions new commercial?

it's my first time seeing it. it's as bad as the Celica's "looks fast" ad campaign.

[wtcnbrwndo4u]

Update the TC giving it a more sport-luxury feel. Think sporty young-looking wannabe 3-series BMW. It's all about the bling. If you can do a hybrid TC that gets 38MPG for $20k then go for it.
This is a great idea IMO. If they can get more of a focus that the new Tib is going for (sport-lux) in a similar price range, it might be better off.

I do also like the hybrid TC idea. That'd sell like hell if they could price it right under the Prius.

[GTsRasta]

They're already in the tuner market.

If Subaru is going to get a turbo'd RWD vehicle, they should give scion a NA version so these "tuner" geeks can customize it all they want, and buy aftermarket turbo kits for it, and even have a factory turbo'd option for the rich kids.

I think this is the only addition to scion's lineup that can put it back to being popular.

[Sty09]

Scion needs to follow what toyota is doing: Sell boring cars. Middle-aged adults are the type more likely to sign the papers for a new car, not high schoolers in the ricer/"tuning" scene. It's a complete marketing disaster.

[imp]

Do young people actually buy Scions? Other than the TC's, every Scion I see is being driven by someone at least 40yrs old.

[XxGot2XLR8NYXxX]

Has anyone seen Scions new commercial?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkZ9B45PZMs

:laugh: :laugh:

It looks almost as bad as a celica meet.


:wave: Scion

Holy Sh*t that commercial sends a disgusting chill down my spine for some reason, I cringe every time I watch it. I like the point that they are trying to get across, but hate that they emphasized the visual aspect of the "culture" theyre trying to promote "rims, custom paint" Feels like theyre trying to brainwash a whole new generation of tasteless ricers. I wish I could have heard a couple BOVs go off that would have made it better, but with the way it is it just looks like a Scion ricer get together.

[techgeekwill]

The tC is the best selling and it's due for a refresh. Everyone knows this, but there has been little information on the new model aside from a horrible concept. It's MY2009 (past the 3 year refresh plan) and not a word.

I know the Yaris has cannibalized Scion sales because it is cheaper and more efficient than anything in the lineup and also the new Corolla. I see a lot more new Corrolla's and Yaris' on the road than any scion.

If I were in charge of Scion,

First - Order of business would be to get a new tC out the door.

Second - Downsize, get a smaller car than Yaris in the lineup, comparable to SmartForTwo or Ford Ka. Price point of under $10k.

Third - 2010 refresh of xB and xD grills.

Fourth - Mini-truck. This has been rumored, and I think it would sell fairly well. There are a lot of people customizing P/U's as it is.

Fifth - Stop emphasizing "Customization" and advertise value/ease of buying/resale.

[Jesse IL]

AYGO
http://www.carbodydesign.com/news/2004-12-01-psa-toyota/Toyota%20Aygo.jpg
Wow, more like the Gayo.
Has anyone seen Scions new commercial?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkZ9B45PZMs

:laugh: :laugh:

It looks almost as bad as a celica meet.
If that nicely prepared of cars showed up at a Celica meet, I'd be thrilled. When you go to a Celica meet, all you see is a bunch of basically stock cars with altezza taillights and other affronts to good taste.

[Zero]

That Scion video is more better than the video Honda did for "Civic Nation". I can't wait for someone to mix in that one annoying song like they did for the Civic Nation video.

[Motor]

Wow, more like the Gayo.

Evidently you have a better name for the car and know how to solve Scion's current problems -- let it be known: http://www.toyota.com/help/contactus.html

[Dash]

Give up the market for the young people. The TC is the only car that would appear to the youth that they have right now. They can continue marketing that towards younger people but as far as the xD and the xB; are you kidding? Also, give the TC a 5 speed auto transmission and an optional 5 or 6 speed manual for people who like to shift their own gears. Even the 4 cylinder Camry is reasonably quick 0 to 60 because of the 5 speed automatic.

What they really need is a compact that is cheaper or is as cheap as the Yaris but more sportier. The Yaris is an excellent reliable commuter but it isn't sporty at all. If Scion were to make something similar that is more sporty I think that it would be a hit.

[lift!!!]

only people i know who bought a scion was because the couldn't get financed for anything else :(

[dr0pSz]

i have a Scion :ugh: but not by choice :shrugs:

the only decent looking Scion is the tC.. IMO.. but ehhh.. possibly making them sportier may increase sells?

idk.. gets great mileage though :thumbup:

[lift!!!]

fire whomever came up with the new xB and xD design. When I first saw them revealed on a trip to Miami, I said to myself " well, thats it. No one is gonna buy this crap". I was right.



i thought the xb looked like the bread box in my kitchen

[Trance4c]

Actually, Scion knows its target market, this is an objective outside article, they have really missed the mark. Scion knows what its doing, and their recent commercial embodies it. Toyota Motor Corp has thrown a lot of money at the buyers of Scions, to the point that it has drifted across lines to Toyota and Lexus enthusiasts. They definitely know what they're doing, and their cars are selling well, especially in this 4 dollar a gallon market.. its hype, its new and its great on gas mileage! Scion has a LOT going for it and those inside Toyota at SET where Scion Management is are completely aware of what they're doing.

[blacken]

they dont know exactly what they are doing trance4c their slipping sales are proof of it
they targeted a demographic and lost it pretty quick by not giving the target exactly what they wanted
they shoved in the face of their target and told them this is what you want

[Trance4c]

they dont know exactly what they are doing trance4c their slipping sales are proof of it
they targeted a demographic and lost it pretty quick by not giving the target exactly what they wanted
they shoved in the face of their target and told them this is what you want

1. Do you think sales do not flux, or the overall drop in auto sales currently would not be reflected by all? Current economic conditions help facilitate this, though it also helps draw interest to this brand, they are after all cheap and Toyota build quality. +1 for Scion, I think your mistaken.

2. They have targeted a demographic, did they lost it? Thats news to me, Scikotics, a large national Scion only based enthusiasts club is one of the fastest growing in the past 5 years. The only thing they lose is the current customer, as they grow older their pocket grows deeper and tastes change, eventually bringing them over from the Scion brand to a new Toyota/Lexus, +1 for Scion, and +1 for all Toyota brands, I think your mistaken.

3. Did they shove anything in our face? Did they tell us thats what we want? What automotive dealer or commercial doesn't? You attribute this to an individual company? I think your mistaken.

Scion knows what they're doing, and they're doing it well. Your just not abreast of the business or the external elements that influence it.

[Boosted2.0]

I would bring the following products under the brand:

1 - Build the Fuse as a Lightweight, low frills ballanced RWD hatchback sports car

2 - Hilux jacked up 2WD & 4WD models - ultra inexpensive small trucks. 4 cylinder only is fine. Again low frills - simply a rugged small truck. The Mexican market Hilux would be perfect.

3 - Some sort of really funky car - maybe a 3 wheeler

4 - a no frills sub $12K 2 door with AC and 40+ MPG.

5 - inexpensive 4 cylinder microvan that seats 7

6 - lightweight plug in hybrid 4 door (non prius looking)

7 - MAYBE a "real" FJ revival (solid axle, no frills, no carpet, removeable hard top go anywhere beast with the mother of all low ranges on the transfer case)

[x01GTSx]

They're already in the tuner market.

If Subaru is going to get a turbo'd RWD vehicle, they should give scion a NA version so these "tuner" geeks can customize it all they want, and buy aftermarket turbo kits for it, and even have a factory turbo'd option for the rich kids.

I think this is the only addition to scion's lineup that can put it back to being popular.

Genius idea:applaud:.

[blacken]

I would bring the following products under the brand:

1 - Build the Fuse as a Lightweight, low frills ballanced RWD hatchback sports car

2 - Hilux jacked up 2WD & 4WD models - ultra inexpensive small trucks. 4 cylinder only is fine. Again low frills - simply a rugged small truck. The Mexican market Hilux would be perfect.

3 - Some sort of really funky car - maybe a 3 wheeler

4 - a no frills sub $12K 2 door with AC and 40+ MPG.

5 - inexpensive 4 cylinder microvan that seats 7

6 - lightweight plug in hybrid 4 door (non prius looking)

7 - MAYBE a "real" FJ revival (solid axle, no frills, no carpet, removeable hard top go anywhere beast with the mother of all low ranges on the transfer case)

o_O me likes the way you thinks
i can see small lowrider trucks happening in ghetto neighborhoods
and wanna be neighborhoods

i always wondered why they never brought back the hilux in US

[Motor]

http://www.motorauthority.com/report-iq-minicar-to-be-sold-in-us-as-scion.html
New iQ is expected to make U.S. debut at next month’s Los Angeles Auto Show

Last month we reported that future variants based on Toyota’s new iQ minicar platform could be offered in the United States to take advantage of growing demand for compact and fuel-efficient cars, however a new report claims the iQ itself could make its way into American showrooms but with one major exception – the car would be sold as a Scion.

The iQ is scheduled to be launched late next year in Europe and Japan, the two markets the car was primarily designed for, however the changing landscape of the U.S. auto industry and Scion’s need of a revamped lineup makes for a strong business case to bring the new minicar Stateside.
-successful 'smart' minicar, the iQ is also more practical and is expected to be more fuel efficient.
http://www.motorauthority.com/content/thumbs/2/0/2010_toyota_iq_motorauthority_main630_02-1010-636x360.jpg

[ikaikajower]

very smart move, and i like the looks too

[darkshadowceli]

Looks like a cross between the new xD and the smart car. fugly

[thaichi8]

the most disgusting piece of **** on wheels
unless it gets like 200mpg i dont even want to look at it

[KooL]

Yeahh, true that, it looks like a moving fridge.

[Motor]

It's not that bad.
Toyota iQ Concept (http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=256160&highlight=Toyota)

[ahnjae]

I cant wait to see the scion fan clubs trying to pimp out these smart cars with some chrome rims and widebody kits!

[celicajonz]

still looks like the ghosts from pacman.

[Motor]

http://www.scionnation.ca/

http://autos.canada.com/news/story.html?id=ec08ab76-d18c-4a85-8bda-7c8c73bbbf04
Once limited to the United States, Toyota's Scion brand will officially arrive in Canada in 2010 with a range of vehicles many Canadians have never seen before.

Designed for the tuner generation, Scion has a wide appeal among trend-setting young Canadians. Come 2010, no longer will those wanting a hip tC with its impressive panorama moonroof, or the brand's xD subcompact hatchback or xB compact crossover-like five-door, be forced to cross the border and export one.

The fuel-friendly brand has also attracted the young at heart of all ages, with empty-nesters even snapping up the box-like xB because of its people, and cargo, hauling utility, low entry price and extremely reasonable running costs.

"Young Canadians have been telling us they want Scion, and now their desire is within reach. Scion is an authentic brand, created to mesh with youthful tastes and sensibilities, and we're excited to expand our presence in Canada with new vehicles that offer a unique blend of flexibility, personalization, affordability and fuel efficiency," said Larry Hutchinson, Director of Toyota Canada Inc. "The time is right to bring Scion culture to Canada."

The timing is right mostly because the Canadian government loosened its bumper restrictions last month, harmonizing them with the US, which allows Scion's cars to be sold here without undergoing an expensive certification process for each model. Expect to see other manufacturers following Scion's lead by bringing US-only models to Canada, although keep in mind that expensive vehicles, like Toyota's Land Cruiser, may not be imported as they could potentially be priced too high to be competitive here.

Scion's lineup, however, is ideal, as Canadians prefer small cars due to our higher fuel costs and their lower initial prices. Scion acts as something even more important to Toyota, mind you, and that's as a conduit for new buyers that might never consider a Toyota; 70-percent are new to the Toyota family. After all, Toyota, while highly respected for durability and safety, isn't the sexiest brand in the industry. Scion, on the other hand, is cool, with a fun-loving, youth-oriented image similar to Mini and smart. When Scion customers' needs evolve, over 50-percent migrate to Toyota, so the company's plan is indeed working.

[Soon2beriding]

yeeeehawwwwww.....can't wait

[RigHty]

i like the face of the car lol. looks like a angry lil ****er

[swint2007]

I want one. lol

[Motor]

.

[Motor]

Scion tC replacement on the way
complete article (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/02/scion-tc-replacement-on-the-way-4th-scion-could-be-anything/)
It's been widely reported over the last year that Scion is planning to add a fourth model to its lineup, but there's still considerable debate about what form it could take. According to Scion veep Jack Hollis, Toyota's entry-level automaker hasn't taken anything off the table, but believes "there are a lot of opportunities for a [second] coupe" to join the aging tC.

So what's Scion considering? Hollis told Automotive News, "We think there is room for a bigger sedan and smaller vehicles. We think there is even the possibility for a truck-based vehicle with an open bed." The idea of bringing the Toyota iQ to the States has been floated before, as well as a production version of the Toyota A-Bat.

Bring something sporty and not another box, you idiots.

[CEGONAX-MAN]

Cego: A warning will be issued next time.

[wtcnbrwndo4u]

Thanks Motor. That was an unnecessary picture.

I just read a review on the iQ in Motor Trend today. Looks interesting to say the least, but really, is something that small really work for the power hungry Americans? I know the smart cars exist, but there's gotta be a line between gas efficiency and utility.

Plus, we're all too damn tall here.. :gap:

[Motor]

Scion To Reveal Concept Car At 2009 New York International Auto Show
Scion will unveil a micro-subcompact concept car at the 2009 New York International Auto Show. The concept reflects Scion's youthful image and represents a new segment for the brand aimed toward the growing urbanization trend.

The Scion press conference will take place on Wednesday, April 8 at 12:05 p.m. EDT in the Galleria on level four in the Javits Convention Center.

Production versions of the xB urban utility vehicle, tC sports coupe and xD urban subcompact five-door will be on display in the Scion space as well as five highly-modified vehicles that debuted at the 2008 Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) show in Las Vegas.

A video clip of the press conference will be available for viewing following the event on the scion.com website.

It's probably just going to be the iQ with Scion badges.

[Motor]

2010 xB Pricing
full story (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=146269)
The base price for the 2010 Scion xB is $16,420, including a $670 destination charge for the five-speed manual-transmission model. The uplevel 2010 Scion xB with a four-speed automatic starts at $17,370, including destination.
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/il/news/2009/0417/scionxb.160.jpg

No price increase -- good move.

[Motor]

2010 Scion tC Pricing
full story (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=147073)
The Toyota youth brand on Wednesday said it will hold the line on tC pricing. The 2010 Scion tC will start at $17,670, including a $670 destination charge, when it arrives in showrooms in May.
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/il/news/2009/0429/2010sciontc.160.jpg

No price increase, again.

[Klint]

how are sales doing with the tc?

[Motor]

how are sales doing with the tc?

Toyota Reports July Sales (http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/toyota-reports-july-sales-97581.aspx)
Scion posted July sales of 6,754 units. The xB urban utility vehicle led the way with sales of 2,838 units. The tC sports coupe recorded sales of 1,939 units. The xD reported sales of 1,976 units for the month.

There you go.

[Klint]

thanks for the link , seems like the hybrids are selling better ..

[Joey03_VVT-I]

^ Yup, I want a PRIUS! :gap:

[Klint]

hella eww.

[Motor]

This isn't Off Topic. Don't reply back.

[Motor]

Update!

Scion in 2010
FULL STORY (http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090817/CARNEWS/908179995)
Looking to bring zip to the brand, Scion will add the iQ small car in the fall of 2010.

In New York, "the interest was so high that it would be silly for us not to fight for it," Hollis said, "but the next-generation tC is our top priority now."

The tC, Scion's sporty coupe, has not had a major makeover since it was introduced in 2004.

Hollis said the tC will be redesigned in mid-2010, but he was mum about specifics. One person familiar with the redesign expects the coupe's current 2.4-liter, 161-hp engine to be replaced by a 2.7-liter four cylinder that could produce up to 200 hp. He also expects more aggressive styling.

Dawn Ahmed, corporate manager of Scion, said Scion customers are begging for more power: "The top two requests are a more performance-based sports car and a hybrid."

The next gen. tC is beginning to sound appealing.

[06CivicSi]

2.7L I4 producing only 200hp.... you can keep it. I'd rather see a factory standard 2zz that is supercharged from TRD. With an option of an upgraded pulley and reflash from toyota.

[Gas-n-Grease]

dude, its not the engine that's the problem for the tc. it's feels like a boat around corners! fix the chassis and suspension.

[06CivicSi]

dude, its not the engine that's the problem for the tc. it's feels like a boat around corners! fix the chassis and suspension.

I know I took my wife to test drive a TC 5 speed and I was not impressed in the least. Hopefully the next TC is the subie-toyota venture. And it's called the Toyota Celica instead. :p

[Motor]

Hopefully the next tC is the Subie-Toyota venture.

Probably not. They're going to be two distinctly different cars.

[06CivicSi]

Probably not. They're going to be two distinctly different cars.

Ahh I was under the impression it would be like the Pontiac Vibe or the Toyota Yaris

[Motor]

Ahh I was under the impression it would be like the Pontiac Vibe or the Toyota Yaris

Understandable. It's just that the Toyobaru is going to be using a RWD platform and the upcoming tC is likely to remain FWD.