Question about buterfly removal and ram air vent

[MYSELF AND I]

How much MPG will my GTS go down if i removed the buterfly. And does takeing off the plastic piece for my hood that supposely is for air induction will that help.
what are the horsepower advantages if any for doing this.
i did feel a big improvment when the buterfly was removed combined with my k&n filter.
im not messing with CAI until my warrenty is up but i will get a new exhaust soon

http://www.newcelica.org/other/installs/butterfly/dyno1.htm


that proves everything

combined with a k&n there was a good improvement for me

[LaW]

there are no improvements, it does jack ****.... why don't you get a short ram then ????

[laz_10]

i took my butterfly valve out today and that plastic part out. IMO i think its better if plastic panel is taken out, theres better flow and no plastic blocking air

[Da Kine Guy]

Originally posted by MYSELF AND I
i did feel a big improvment when the buterfly was removed combined with my k&n filter.

You know if you fart in your gas tank it'll improve combustion and make a BIG improvement. :D

Trust me, you did not feel anything, but you did make the engine sound different. Your brain is telling you, "Well, I did something to the engine and spent some money, so it must be better now and boy do I feel it." Same thing with an exhaust, for all the extra noise it makes it sure doesn't improve things much.

Sorry for getting on you for this, but I feel a great injustice is done if someone doesn't correct you on this. Better here then somewhere else.

[Griffin]

Originally posted by Da Kine Guy


You know if you fart in your gas tank it'll improve combustion and make a BIG improvement. :D


You do realize what you've done don't you? Somewhere right now a ricer has a funnel in his gas fill and is chowing down on beans and broccoli. :D

Griffin

[Da Kine Guy]

Originally posted by Griffin


You do realize what you've done don't you? Somewhere right now a ricer has a funnel in his gas fill and is chowing down on beans and broccoli. :D

Griffin

Hahahaha!! You know, the sad thing is I think you're right :chuckles:

[MYSELF AND I]

Actually you are wrong the butterfly removal does give 2-3 lb more torque and 1 hp . combined with my k&n it has worked out very nicely

[po9i]

yea sure...it gives you a little more sound in the lower RPM range...that's bout it

[MYSELF AND I]

Here you go buddy

http://www.newcelica.org/other/installs/butterfly/dyno1.htm


that proves everything and with that if you want to risk your warrenty getting a CAI and being screwed at the dealer do this mod. it takes 2 min to remove, also with a k&n filter you are looking at least 2-5hp and 4lb of torque increase across the board. Now if you want a good CAI and some nice check engine lights once in while your looking at a better improvment over the mod discussed. But probbly only 2-3 more hp
have a nice day

[Chui]

I work at FoMoCo in P/T NVh Sound Quality and I have just taken induction orifice data on a Toyota Camry V6 which also has an "active" [2-way] induction system like your Celicas.

This is what the flap is for:

There is only one way to reduce the overall induction contribution to interior sound and that is with a large expansion chamber. The expansion chamber is where your stock filter is located. It reduces the induction sound, as I stated, but it also reduces manifold pressure a small amount. So why wouldn't one use large cross-sectional diameter tubing in the induction system? Because at low engine speeds and high engine loads a large, low freqency standing wave builds up in the system and dominates the interior sound. Those with AEM Cold Air Intakes understand this quite well. For most people this is objectionable. I happen to LOVE it on my car, but then those that like the sound are a "vocal minority". Pun ALWAYS intended.

So what do you do? Have a second orifice for low speeds. It's somewhat restrictive, relative to the larger cross-sectional opening, but it's not readily noticeable and if you were to block the main entrance it would cost you noticeable bhp. But just as the flow shows signs of being choked the valve is opened by the ECU. For the Camry it's 3,700 rpm as is the cross communication valve in the split plenum opens.

By removing the valve off-idle torque will be decreased a bit, but since we're discussing manual transmission [HOPEFULLY!?] lightweight sports cars most of us will gladly forego that.

Also, did I mention the sound you get with the valve removed? To me, the sound of the car is every bit as important as steering feel, brake feel, handling and acceleration and, in the instance of the ITR, it really makes a difference. Your fuel economy will drop and if you're like me you'll use the additional torque [but that's assuming you drop the OEM induction system and use an AEM or what not]. So my fuel economy went from 28 or 29 combined to 25 mpg. But that also includes one inch wider tires and they are 205/50 as opposed to 195/55 and they are MUCH quieter for some reason(s) so I travel at 85 to 95 mph [5,000 rpm in 5th] on certain stretches of freeways.

Hope this helps.

[Da Kine Guy]

Originally posted by MYSELF AND I
Here you go buddy

http://www.newcelica.org/other/installs/butterfly/dyno1.htm


that proves everything and with that if you want to risk your warrenty getting a CAI and being screwed at the dealer do this mod. it takes 2 min to remove, also with a k&n filter you are looking at least 2-5hp and 4lb of torque increase across the board. Now if you want a good CAI and some nice check engine lights once in while your looking at a better improvment over the mod discussed. But probbly only 2-3 more hp
have a nice day

Lol, ok buddy :chuckles:. Think that if you want I guess. X-Evil-X just dyno'd his car and got a gain of 5-6 ft/lbs TOTAL. That's with exhaust and CAI. Plus, the numbers you give are within the margin of error for a dyno chart anyways. Look at back to back consecutive dyno's, they vary on the same car by about the numbers you have given. Oh yeah, and I was pokin' fun at you saying you could FEEL the improvement. Trust me, you will not feel a gain of 1hp or 2 ft/lbs of torque in any car. Plus, if you knew how the system worked you would understand why there is no gain.

[MYSELF AND I]

i noticed a difference and so does many others , maybe your engine is broke
i heard you get alot of check engine lights with your CAI

[Da Kine Guy]

Ok, believe what you want, I am just trying to save you from embarassment in the future. Don't blame me when you go bragging about your K&N filter and butterfly valve removal to someone who is knowledgable and get laughed at.

[MYSELF AND I]

Why would i brag
the only thing i would brag about is not getting check engine lights and paying 40 bucks for a filter which takes only 2min to do with a good substancial increase of power. oh yeah who wants to have the hassel of having your cars warrenty dropped everytime you go to a dealer.
just my 2 cents and if i do need to go back to the dealer ill just pop in the butterfly and thats it.
yeah ill get a CAI after but im not takeing the risk

no one has to go run out and buy a CAI if they dont want to . Most people would rather be safe then sorry

[steckelberg]

My tech at my dealership has a GTS with a CAI. He works for toyota! The only thing possibly bad about a CAI is water uptake. I drive in the snow so I went short ram. A short ram would give bigger gains than a filter change(less air turbulence, greater speed) . A CAI gives even bigger gains that a short ram(less air tubulence, greater speed, colder temp)

[MYSELF AND I]

Just because a tech has a CAI at a toyota dealership doesnt mean its ok to have one on your car. Its ok for him since he works there. Yeah i agree CAI are the wayto go but with a cheap mod like the butterfly removal and k&n filter you will see a good improvment

[Chui]

Originally posted by MYSELF AND I
Just because a tech has a CAI at a toyota dealership doesnt mean its ok to have one on your car. Its ok for him since he works there. Yeah i agree CAI are the wayto go but with a cheap mod like the butterfly removal and k&n filter you will see a good improvment

What you are experiencing is twofold: MORE NOISE at lower rpm which makes you think it's more powerful; and a bit more flow from the K&N filter which will give you two things: a bit more power [very small, mind you] and a slight increase in noise. Please read my earlier post.

[dragonglen]

On another note, I've had an AEM CAI for about a year now, and I've never had a CEL, and I've also been to the dealer. Hell, I went there after putting on my new springs because the strut was making a funny noise, and they said they'd fix it for me. I ended up taking it home myself and doing it instead (didn't want to leave my car there for a few hours).

It seems that you only get a CAI if you install it incorrectly. Many people have taken the MAF sensor off and reinstalled it and got no CEL.

[laz_10]

damn, people like to flare on each other for small things. its his car, if he likes what he did with it leave him alone. its like me telling u how to do ur job. or i.e -- i did it this way, u have to do it that way too--

[Da Kine Guy]

No, it's like me coming on the board and saying,

"Ok, today I grabbed a screw driver and banged the **** out of my stock airbox and punctured holes in it all over the place. Oh man, I can feel a signifigant power increase in my butt."

Most of us know this is retarded. It's just that this is the kinda **** that Honda boyz get teased about all the time and I don't want to see it happen to Toyota. I'm just trying to explain to the kid that all he did was make his car louder in the lower RPM band. Stamping out false knowledge is good for everyone.

BTW, I have no idea where the CAI thing came about. After trying to tell him that the butterfly removal and K&N filter don't give any signifigant performance gain he comes back with:

i noticed a difference and so does many others , maybe your engine is broke. i heard you get alot of check engine lights with your CAI

Look at my sig. Does it look like I have a CAI, or even a Celica anymore? :rolleyes:

Believe me, I am as confused as you are about the hostility that came back at me.

[celicatalk]

Chui,

Do you have any more info on the Butterfly Valve?

[JDRSpeed]

Suckaz!, it does a little improvement on HP and Torque, if anyones against this this is what you get===>>>:fawk: :fawk: :fawk:

[Mistrimeat]

Originally posted by JDRSpeed
Suckaz!, it does a little improvement on HP and Torque, if anyones against this this is what you get===>>>:fawk: :fawk: :fawk:

eh...I'm against it, you filthy chode.

[Johan]

This thread should be in the Newbie forum..........................


:D :D :D

[Da Kine Guy]

sh!t, don't bring back this post, let it die man, let it die!!!

[LBCelica2KI]

On the bright side its a free mod for the time being. I took of mine no big deal other then a slightly better throttle response and a deeper tone.