GT-S's autox

[traitor]

quick question, was wondering if any of you guys are racing GT-S's, GS or STS. are they pretty competivie, I know the GT is supposed to be real competitive in ES. went to a couple of National Tours this year and didn't notice but one GT-S at any of the events. just bought the car on wedensday and really like it so far.

thanks

[scapamouche]

With a few exceptions ( All you Dinwiddie guys!) THE GT-S isn't very competitive in GS. That said, I've never beat GS times running in STS, or even in STR the two times I ran there.

Unfortunately, I've never done too well in STS either. There are some insane Subies running STS, both drivers and cars (Richard West for one!) I'd say STS is a better place to be in general. I have done better overall there, plus the mods can still go on if that's your thing.

Forget the above if you've got some skill (unlike me!)

[autxr]

scapamouche is pretty much right (welcome back scapamouche, hope CA is treating you well).

I think that with a good driver the GTS will be a mid pack car, but with equal drivers, it will not beat the Type R. The WRX is a bit handicapped on a slower course, but is a very fast car as well. We might find that no one can beat an IS300 in the class.

STS is a good class, and on paper the GTS should do quite well, but you still have the same problems that the GTS has in stock class. More power than traction.

I've driven a GT and own the GTS, I think the GT is *much* easier to drive. With proerp throttle control the GTS might have an edge, but I found it much easier to use al the available power in the GT, whereas in teh GTS I find that I can probably only go 75% or I get wheel spin.

I think the GTS might actually be quite competitive in DSP...

Scott

[Unity112]

In a couple of years, I "might" consider moving my car into DSP. But as for now I'm in STS and I think the car can be pretty competitive. Well in my region at least for all that matters not to sure about the national level.

But I think, for people in STS, it would be wise to try to find a way to make the torque curve as linear as possible (within rules) as to not upset the balance of the car mid turn. Or at least have great sensitivity and throttle modulation. Some pretty good rubber should help lessen wheel spin as well (again within rules).

Unity - who wants to prove the GTS is no slowpoke.

[scapamouche]

An LSD will make a huge difference in how the GT-S drives, but I'm not convinced that will be enough in DSP.

My own limited experience in DSP was getting my butt handed to me by Tom Bleh in Norfolk. He was beating me by almost 10 seconds on a 1 minute course. I wasn't on race rubber, I know, but still!

Could be my lack of driving skill, too, I suppose. Bryan would probably do much better in my car than I ever will.

Hey, there Scott! It's not too bad out here. Laguna Seca is 15 minutes away, as is the local autox club, with fields as large or larger than the Dinwiddie events usually are.

[afghan]

I drive a GT in STS which is still pretty stock and it holds its own(not midpack). GTS should do well. Work on your driving.:D

[traitor]

what all cars are running in GS this year? I know they moved the ITR but, what else changed?

[autxr]

scapamouche-

I actually out-paxed Tom in one event

http://www.nasaracing.net/autox/aug19_01/index.shtml

I still grin about that one.

I was 2 seconds back on raw time though.

Good course for a Celica. Not too many sharp transitions to spin the inside tire, and a looooong straight where we could use all the power (80+ mph).

Scott

[nxracer]

80+ mph straight?

That's not a "legal" SCCA autocross course.

[autxr]

You are correct. It was a NASA event. Kind of a scary course in hind sight. I would have liked them to have slowed it down.

I have been on an SCCA course with speeds that high, but it was held on a section of road course.

Scott

[Mas]

>>80+ mph straight?

>That's not a "legal" SCCA autocross course.

Why is it not legal? As it's been explained to me you can have sections of an autocross course reaching 80 mph just not the whole course. As I can remember the rules state that a Solo II course will have speeds averaging 60-65 mph.

[nxracer]

It's not 60-65 average it's 60 to 65 MAXIMUM for the fastest stock classes.

It only takes one incident to badly damage a car, get someone hurt or take a life. This could change the sport forever so lets not do it violating our own guidelines.

The Solo Safety Committee is concerned about these limits and after the 2001 Texas Tour all National Tours and Tirerack National Championships now must abide by these limits and so far they have. If we allow speeds for "stock" class cars jump into the 70+ mile per hour range the Prepared and Mod classes can get close to 100.

Some say it was fast but nothing happened so what's the problem. So lets say that something bad does happen and our insurance carrier finds out a say HS Focus was doing 80?. They could drop us like a rock and if they do we as autocrossers will need to find another way to have fun. The National Office has stated the limit is what it is and if you want to go faster go road racing.

Bottom line, straight line or not if we in our DS or GS cars are in third gear that means the course in not legal.

[traitor]

correct me if I'm wrong but, I have been to a couple of events where I was going faster than 60-65 mph. I thought SCCA made exemptions to this rule in special cases, we have an event in east TN where I know they have.

[nxracer]

As far as I know there are and were no exceptions ever given by the National office. "Speed Creep" (as it's called) has been around awhile mostly because the top speeds at Nationals and Tours were sometimes creeping "above the limits". There are now (after the 2001 Texas tour) requirements that all Tour courses are to be checked for speeds prior to the event. So (IMHO) if the National office is clamping down the regions need to also. The "crutch" alway, was but I was doing 70 at a Tour so why can't I do that at my local regional event.

Note: nothing happened at the Texas Tour but there were stock cars in the 70's in a sweeper.

Another note: A minor accident at 40 is a major accident at 60

[Mas]

when in doubt look at your rule book.

From the 2001 Solo II rulebook
Section 2.1 A "Speed on straight stretches should not normally exceed the low 60's (mph) for the fastest Stock and Street Prepared category cars."

Well that sayes it all "low 60's" for all Stock and SP classes.

It does however use some vague language like "should not normally" so I could see a little room for interpretation.

I can't imagine a course would be very fun if the BSP ZO6 that runs oout here was not allowed to break 60 mph.

Live and learn

[nxracer]

The trick to designing a "fun" course is not in getting a fast terminal velocity, hell that's easy. The best courses (IMHO) have a high maintained velocity.