does anyone think they can figure this problem out??

[xangrystylex]

ok here is the story i mishifted and blew parts of trans and engine blah blah blah. ok well they fixed it all and got it back together. now i know the mechanic becuase my mom works at the dealership so he is pretty straight forward with me. he is stumped. he got it all back together and started it up. he said it sounded great and was letting it warm up when all the sudden it stalled. he hooked up a machine to it and it told him that the fuel injecters were still going and the fuel pump was working yet the engine was off and the machine was giving him a tach signal saying the rpms were at 500 when the engine wasnt even on?? what the hell? he said he thinks it is right before it is about to "loop" and have the ecu kick in, though he wasnt sure on that but it strongly seemed like it. he says it is prolly an electrical problem, also he checked all the vacumn lines and he is stumped. he asked me to go on here and ask around cause he knows it is a simple problem it is just finding it that will take forever. so if you can help me out let me know of some problems you have like this or some suggestoins. i also need to note if it matters at all i have a injen cai, trd exhaust, trd clutch and fidanza flwheel just installe while this was in the shop for the engine work cause this guy is cool and he put them in for me. thanks in advance.

[Griffin]

Tell him to call the technical assistance line at Toyota - they have people to help the etchs when they get stumped. To be honest you haven't given us nearly enough info for a diagnosis. What you are saying doesn't make any sense at all, the RPM signal is generated by the cranksfaft position sensor which does not turn if the engine isn't running. The only thing I can think of is he managed to short the CPS wire to voltage or somethign of that nature and its being interpereted as an RPM signal...

Verify the following for me:

Does it crank?
Does it Start?
Does if have compression? If so how much in each cylinder?
How much leakdown?
Does it have spark?
Does it have an injector pulse?
How much fuel pressure at the fuel rail?
If he backprobes the ECM do the NE and G1 waveforms match the pictures in the shop manual?

Griffin

[xangrystylex]

yes it starts up fine he had it started and ready to test drive it and while it was warming up it stalled. he told me he also already called the tech line. he tried a number of things they told him and so far none have worked. as for the other info i am not sure. he just wants me to get some suggestions and i am going to print them out and bring them to him. so thanks for the info and anymore would help.

[Griffin]

Originally posted by xangrystylex
yes it starts up fine he had it started and ready to test drive it and while it was warming up it stalled. he told me he also already called the tech line. he tried a number of things they told him and so far none have worked. as for the other info i am not sure. he just wants me to get some suggestions and i am going to print them out and bring them to him. so thanks for the info and anymore would help.

I mean will it start and run since the stall...

[xangrystylex]

yea it starts up again but right around the same time length it dies again.

[Griffin]

Couple more questions:

Do you have an alarm with an ignition kill?
When the car dies the dash lights come on, is the check engine light one of them?
Does it die instantly or is there some indication? (stumble then stall)
How long (in minutes and seconds) is it before the stall?

Some things to look at when the vehicle stalls:
Did it loose fuel pressure?
Did the ECM loose power?
Did it try to purge the EVAP system?
Does CTP read to be ON at idle?
Can he active test the idle speed up and down with the scan tool?

Griffin

[xangrystylex]

ok i have a factory toyota alarm and he knows all about he said cause that was like my first guess. no check engine light and it sputers i believe and i am not sure on the time i would say 5-10 minutes as long as it would be to warm up. and what is the ctp?

[Griffin]

Originally posted by xangrystylex
ok i have a factory toyota alarm and he knows all about he said cause that was like my first guess. no check engine light and it sputers i believe and i am not sure on the time i would say 5-10 minutes as long as it would be to warm up. and what is the ctp?

So immediately after the stall the CEL is not on?? that indicates that the ECM lost power, otherwise the light will be on with all the other lights immediately after the stall. If this is in fact the case he sould monitor the BATT and B+ terminals on the ECM and see if he looses voltage immediately before stall. If so he should check to see if his EFI main relay is cutting out.

Also he can watch on the scan tool to see if the EVAP VSV is coming on, or he could simply clamp off the hose from teh manifold to the EVAP canister to see if that prevents it.

CTP = Closed Throttle Position - it is an indicated value in the datalist. If it doesn't show to be "ON" at idle with your foot off the gas then the car will idle poorly and be prone to stalling and over-sensitive to alternator and AC load.

If he is suddenly loosing fuel pressure before it dies, he may want to check the circuit opening relay circuit.

Another thought is that the scantool has teh ability to take a 30 second snapshot based on the user's trigger. He should wait till it starts to stall, trigger snapshot mode, and he will get a picture of what happened 15 seconds before and after trigger. He can then download that infointo the Techview program on the TIS machine, and watch the datalist to see what goes out of whack as teh vehicle stalls.

Griffin

[xangrystylex]

thanks this has helped more than you know.

[Griffin]

Originally posted by xangrystylex
thanks this has helped more than you know.

Glad to help :) - If you were in the LA area I would just swing by and fix it for ya. But instead I'll just do what I can to help :)

Griffin

[kaioshin]

Griffin, do you happen to be a Toyota mechanic or engineer???? :)

[DaksGT]

Originally posted by kaioshin
Griffin, do you happen to be a Toyota mechanic or engineer???? :)
The question is does he really exist, or is he a sign :wtf:

[Griffin]

Originally posted by kaioshin
Griffin, do you happen to be a Toyota mechanic or engineer???? :)

I am what I am and thats all that I am:)

Lets just say that I know what I'm doing when it comes to Engines & Engine control systems :)

Griffin

[rearendman0]

Originally posted by Griffin


I am what I am and thats all that I am:)

I used to be a Toyota Tech :) I was the best untill that tragic accident with the giant inflatable octopus... I don't like to talk about it. ;)

Griffin

Come on man, you can't bring a topic like that up and not explain it(oh and no i didn't use the "search" item. Should I? he he

[Griffin]

Originally posted by rearendman0


Come on man, you can't bring a topic like that up and not explain it(oh and no i didn't use the "search" item. Should I? he he

Grins - I'm just messing around. I don't say where I work or exactly what I do in public forums so I make it a habit to give silly and inane replies. No - there was never a giant inflatable octopus ;) - I left the job at the dealership because while you can make OK / good money as a line tech, it tears your body up and by the time your 45/50 you are DONE and have little to show for it. Not to mention intelligence and diagnostic skill are rewarded by poorly paying hard to diagnose cars while the morons who don't know an injector from a spark plug get the "gravy" good payign service work. They don't really pay you any better than the morons either unless your willing to hop from dealership to dealership all the time. I will admit kicking butt on hard to fix stuff all day is rewarding intellectually and in the satisfaction of a job well done, that doesn't put food on the table. So I went to skewl got me sum more lernin and got me a guud job.

Griffin

Sorry for the rant, but there is a HUGE flaw in the current system, and its a shame, but smart guys and good diagnosticians have very little reason to stay in the dealership, it just doesn't pay. Then on top of that there is usually VERY little emphasis on educating technicians. To give you an idea, your average Master Tech has to learn 8 times as much per year to keep on top of new models and technology as your average doctor. We used to say that the MDs have it easy - One Make 2 models same manufacturer and they've been teh same for the last million years. Course finding new parts can be a pain....

[DaksGT]

Told you he doesn't exist

[Griffin]

Originally posted by DaksGT
Told you he doesn't exist

I am a fig newton of your demented imalgamation.

Yeah

[DaksGT]

Originally posted by Griffin


I am a fig newton of your demented imalgamation.

Yeah
I knew it all along, cause sometimes at night I hear voices "Griffin, Griffin" and the in the morning I come and read a post like this :D, j/k Keep it up Griff, I love learning

[kaioshin]

Hahaa.. I hope this thread doesn't get moved to OT. :)

Yeah, Griffin I always enjoy reading your posts. :thumbup:

[Griffin]

Thanks guys - appreciate being appreciated. Except by Daks maybe.... <Grins>

Griffin

[DaksGT]

That hurt me deep

[DaksGT]

Oh Griff while we're in here what would be the ideal a/f ratio the 1zz would run across the power band, cause after 6k or so mine was like 12:! it was running very very rich so now its around 14.1:1 which I'm affraid is a bit too lean for my tastes up that high, any comments suggestions, this was all done on the dyno BTW without a professional tune (I don't consider myself one yet :P) I'm waiting for all the breathing mods to be done then I'll pay the bucks and have the guy do it.

[Griffin]

Originally posted by DaksGT
Oh Griff while we're in here what would be the ideal a/f ratio the 1zz would run across the power band, cause after 6k or so mine was like 12:! it was running very very rich so now its around 14.1:1 which I'm affraid is a bit too lean for my tastes up that high, any comments suggestions, this was all done on the dyno BTW without a professional tune (I don't consider myself one yet :P) I'm waiting for all the breathing mods to be done then I'll pay the bucks and have the guy do it.

Hard to say. 12:1 or 12.5:1 is actually a good baseline, but things like compression, octane, carbon buildup, etc. will dictate how the car will run at what ratio. I mean, at least in theory a guy with CAI should be able to run a little leaner than a guy with normal intake because the intake air won't require as much cooling. Not a significant amount maybe but a little. at the end of the day anything that doesn't slag your engine and makes teh best power is the ideal ratio. Hope that helps...

Griffin

[DaksGT]

So what you're saying is, its all up to the butt dyno correct?

[Griffin]

Originally posted by DaksGT
So what you're saying is, its all up to the butt dyno correct?

I wouldn't say BUTT Dyno... but yeah.