What do you guy think of this pic

[slowmotion]

Check out this pic and tell me that it not a S/C

http://www.hotchkistuning.com/images/Celica/celica_racecar/P6080012.JPG
http://www.hotchkistuning.com/images/Celica/celica_racecar/P6080010.JPG
http://www.hotchkistuning.com/images/Celica/celica_racecar/P6080018.JPG

[swift 21]

that wouldnt happen to be the blitz supercharger would it??

[PaCelicaGTS]

umm no thats not blitz, that would be another mfgr that is possibly coming out with a supercharger, but prototyping it on a Hotchkis car

[celicauk]

Whilst its good to see another manufacturer having a go at this I still don't understand why they have to use such a huge supercharger, the Rotrex on mine is about the same size as the alternator and weighs about the same too.

Good luck to them, hope they get it finished some time soon :D

[Keyshawn]

Yeah, this has been discussed previously. Check out these links:

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=315648#post315648

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26780&highlight=hotchkis

This supercharger is made by Magnuson, which if I'm not mistaken either makes TRD's superchargers for them, or supplies TRD with all their supercharger components.

[swift 21]

so who has the full story on this.

[Griffin]

Originally posted by celicauk
Whilst its good to see another manufacturer having a go at this I still don't understand why they have to use such a huge supercharger, the Rotrex on mine is about the same size as the alternator and weighs about the same too.

Good luck to them, hope they get it finished some time soon :D

Correct me if I'm wrong but yours is a centrifugal blower. This is a roots type - very different design. This type gives much better low RPM performance which is what the 2ZZ needs most. The design requires it to be a little bigger. You also size it for the amount of power you WANT to make. Apparently they want to make quite a bit.

Griffin

[2002GT_Celica]

I just remembered that the 1ZZ and 2ZZ were made by Yamaha.

[celicauk]

Originally posted by Griffin


Correct me if I'm wrong but yours is a centrifugal blower. This is a roots type - very different design. This type gives much better low RPM performance which is what the 2ZZ needs most. The design requires it to be a little bigger. You also size it for the amount of power you WANT to make. Apparently they want to make quite a bit.

Griffin

The rotrex is a friction drive turbo vane. Basically it has three rollers and a central drive shaft, when it spins the rollers clamp onto the drive shaft and spin the vane, its internally geared at about 9:1 giving it a massive pickup, so in essence yes its a centrifugal type.

As with the roots type you also size this to suit the engine and amount of boost you require, for example the one on my car is benched at a shade under 3 bar, way more than I need or the engine can use, this has the benefit of giving lots more air low down than just fitting the one sized for my engine.

Its big advantage is that it uses far more proven turbo technology when it comes to the vanes. Also it can be made into a hybrid, so the vanes can be changed easily to take in more or less air.

I agree that the two types are completely different but I don't understand why you would want to strap something that heavy on the front of the engine when there are far lighter and more efficient options around.

As I said, not knocking Hotchkis, I reckon when its done it'll be damned impressive and worth a go, I just think they could have used something a bit different to do this.

Cheers

[Griffin]

Originally posted by celicauk


The rotrex is a friction drive turbo vane. Basically it has three rollers and a central drive shaft, when it spins the rollers clamp onto the drive shaft and spin the vane, its internally geared at about 9:1 giving it a massive pickup, so in essence yes its a centrifugal type.

As with the roots type you also size this to suit the engine and amount of boost you require, for example the one on my car is benched at a shade under 3 bar, way more than I need or the engine can use, this has the benefit of giving lots more air low down than just fitting the one sized for my engine.

Its big advantage is that it uses far more proven turbo technology when it comes to the vanes. Also it can be made into a hybrid, so the vanes can be changed easily to take in more or less air.

I agree that the two types are completely different but I don't understand why you would want to strap something that heavy on the front of the engine when there are far lighter and more efficient options around.

As I said, not knocking Hotchkis, I reckon when its done it'll be damned impressive and worth a go, I just think they could have used something a bit different to do this.

Cheers

Ummm roots style blowers have been around for quite a long time. Its more than proven itself and they tend to be super consistent and reliable.

Any ways heres my thoughts on why they may have done this. You raise some good points though - hopefully someone with more than theories can tell us :)

While they are kinda heavy they aren't as bad as you might think. Its probably no more than 10 or 15 pounds heavier than the AC compressor which has been removed along with the plumbing and condenser so I doubt the balance has been disturbed very much.

Fact is no matter how you work the drive system the vane type still needs a little time to build up boost. The roots type is squeezing decent boost right from the get go. My thought is that since they are autocrossing they want the instant super sharp throttle response. Mind you this is all conjecture. But its one possible reason. From a pure torquey ballsy low end brute force performance aspect, I think they probably made the right choice. Remember they dinna build a daily driver here - its a purpose built race car they are working on. It makes perfect sense to me.

Griffin

[celicauk]

I had a chat with the bloke who fitted mine today, he knows a lot about these things and explained how the charger on my car works, basically the planetry gears are full time engaged, not centrifugal not friction, these babies are on full time, the only time they actually slip is when you snap open the throttle, such as when launching, this slip is very momentary and is done to stop the driveshaft from shearing due to the immense amount of force applied by the 9:1 gearing.

He also went on about something called adiabatic efficiency, something which the roots type are very bad for, in addition at full load the roots will start to lose power whereas the rotrex will continue to boost at a fixed level based on the gearing used on the pulleys.

Its an interesting debate and possibly a pointless one, if they are building this for racing is there really much chance of them releasing a street legal kit?

[Griffin]

Originally posted by celicauk
I had a chat with the bloke who fitted mine today, he knows a lot about these things and explained how the charger on my car works, basically the planetry gears are full time engaged, not centrifugal not friction, these babies are on full time, the only time they actually slip is when you snap open the throttle, such as when launching, this slip is very momentary and is done to stop the driveshaft from shearing due to the immense amount of force applied by the 9:1 gearing.

He also went on about something called adiabatic efficiency, something which the roots type are very bad for, in addition at full load the roots will start to lose power whereas the rotrex will continue to boost at a fixed level based on the gearing used on the pulleys.

Its an interesting debate and possibly a pointless one, if they are building this for racing is there really much chance of them releasing a street legal kit?

Hmm maybe I misunderstand your charger, but most of the vane type (belt driven turbo impeller) take a while to build decent boost due to the nature of the vane type system itself.. Who knows, as long as they make huge power and good track times its all good :)

Griffin

[celicauk]

LOL, too right, plus mine sounds like a jet engine, I'll have to do some film so you can all hear it :)