Last Step For Sillycar Project ... (^_^)

[sillycar09]

Hi Guys...This is the last step for me to rebuilt my engine :wiggle:
Hmm... Which Compression ratio should I go ?? I have thinking this everyday & night.... head pain...Hope can help guys :D
My Car is Auto GTS Turboed...
My satisfy boost is around 10-14 psi~(MAX BOOST) for me ...With T28 Ball Bearing..
I am planning to go Mahle Piston...
Which CR should i go ?? 9:1 or 10:5 ?
Hope can help guys!! :love:
C H e E R Sss !! :)

[youngxlos]

if you are only going for 10-14psi i think 10:5 should be good
if you want more boost then go for the 9:1

[youngxlos]

oh and make sure you check the block and see if its within spec to use the Mahle pistons

[sillycar09]

oh and make sure you check the block and see if its within spec to use the Mahle pistons

Okie !! THanks ! Bro !! :)
Oh ya.. How to check my block is within spec to use Mahle Piston ??
My Car now is ... 46600Km = 28955.miles..
In your experience...my block need to sleeve ??
I am worry If I order Mahle Piston and after my mechanic check my block & have to sleeve it... :( (If required sleeve ... I better go for Wiseco piston...)
Edited :
10.5 wont too high for F/I ?

[FrostsCelicaGTS]

10.5 is not high for turbo application.

[sillycar09]

Ok ! I will consider the 10.5 mahle piston :D....
Oh ya.. I just bought T28 ball bearing last night...
So I just install it...and then just tune ??
The boost is already 0.5bar ?? I worry when tune it...the boost show 0.7bar ... because this turbo original actuator is 0.7bar....
hope can help guys :(

[Allance 48]

get boost controller , u can control how much boost u want! if u use 10.5:1 piston u can run boost up to 0.7bar is safe! dont forget install ATF cooler n oil cooler is gd for ur engine cooling n AUTO gearbox

[Smaay]

if your wastegate is .7BAR then that is the lowest it will go, you can raise boost but you cant lower it belorw the spring rate

[sillycar09]

if your wastegate is .7BAR then that is the lowest it will go, you can raise boost but you cant lower it belorw the spring rate

Smaay , you mean If I am using boost controller... also can't lowest the boost ? OMG ! bc this turbo c/w 0.7bar internal wastegate ...
Any help ?? This turbo is T28 ball bearing :( original is boost 0.7bar...
Bc I dont want to change piston first ...

[Entranced]

you'll be boosting .7 bar minimum. you can't go lower than .7. boost controller will let you raise it above that, but will not let you go below it

[sillycar09]

you'll be boosting .7 bar minimum. you can't go lower than .7. boost controller will let you raise it above that, but will not let you go below it

Ok..I understand already ! Thanks Bro !!
Hope 0.7bar wont blow my piston ...Bc my car already had fuel return line & walbro fuel pump & fuel regulator... :D

[sillycar09]

I have seen all the drag car are using low cr piston which is 9.1 or 8.8:1 .. and seldom people are using a piston which is 10.5:1 or higher....
Mwr drag car also using 9.1 mahle piston..and get 666whp...
I have something confuse... Is It can rev higher and safety If using high cr piston ??
What about using low cr piston ?? harder to rev higher than high cr piston ?

[evilthorne]

You can run more advanced timing with lower comp pistons becasue they are less likely to detonate with the boost. The issue is you lose out on off boost power. Truthfully I really don't understand with a properly sized turbo in an road racing venue you really should be on boost all the time anyway so it's a moot point. HOw much power are you going for?

[youngxlos]

I have seen all the drag car are using low cr piston which is 9.1 or 8.8:1 .. and seldom people are using a piston which is 10.5:1 or higher....
Mwr drag car also using 9.1 mahle piston..and get 666whp...
I have something confuse... Is It can rev higher and safety If using high cr piston ??
What about using low cr piston ?? harder to rev higher than high cr piston ?
lower compression pistons can allow you to add more boost into the engine.
that means more power.
if you use lets say 10.1CR, Jesse said to be safe he is only going to be doing 17psi i think.
with my 9.1CR i can run 20+ PSI.
now you get it??

[smart_rocket]

only guys from the race scene are running high comp. with high boost, but they are using race gas or high meth injections.... on a street engine running on pump gas betweet 90-98octane it's safer going with less CR... because of detonation, you could try to tune it due less timing, but then it would also loose the positive effect of better throttle response at lower rpms... on a moderate bossted engine you can go with high comp. pistons say till 9psi ca with a bigger turbo, say in the T3 class because less heat and more CFM than a smaller turbo at 9psi ... If going with less CR pistons on higher boosted levels the combustion chamber can fill it more with air than with high CR... so for street applications on high boost with smaller turbos as GT28r running on pump gas, go with low CR pisonts...

[jlitman]

It's much easier to tune around lower compression and higher boost -- theoretically, you are less likely to detonate because the flame front tends to dissipate more evenly across the flatter piston crown, and less likely to get hot spots, at least as I understand it. Go with the 9:1 or 8.8:1.

Moreover, with a turbo, you can always raise the boost if you want with fewer worries.

[sillycar09]

You can run more advanced timing with lower comp pistons becasue they are less likely to detonate with the boost. The issue is you lose out on off boost power. Truthfully I really don't understand with a properly sized turbo in an road racing venue you really should be on boost all the time anyway so it's a moot point. HOw much power are you going for?

240-260whp... And My Max Boost I want is 14psi .. 14 psi for me is satisfy :)

[sillycar09]

lower compression pistons can allow you to add more boost into the engine.
that means more power.
if you use lets say 10.1CR, Jesse said to be safe he is only going to be doing 17psi i think.
with my 9.1CR i can run 20+ PSI.
now you get it??
Ok ! I got it !! Thanks ! Youngxlos :) ...
14 psi is enough for me .... so aim for 10.1 CR Mahle Piston :)
I will change piston...main bearing and arp head stub..etc..
leave con rod , oem main bearing , valve spring all stock...

[sillycar09]

only guys from the race scene are running high comp. with high boost, but they are using race gas or high meth injections.... on a street engine running on pump gas betweet 90-98octane it's safer going with less CR... because of detonation, you could try to tune it due less timing, but then it would also loose the positive effect of better throttle response at lower rpms... on a moderate bossted engine you can go with high comp. pistons say till 9psi ca with a bigger turbo, say in the T3 class because less heat and more CFM than a smaller turbo at 9psi ... If going with less CR pistons on higher boosted levels the combustion chamber can fill it more with air than with high CR... so for street applications on high boost with smaller turbos as GT28r running on pump gas, go with low CR pisonts...

Ok ~! Thanks !! I now having GT28r.... just aim for which CR should i go...
I will go for low cr piston ~~
Thanks ! GT-Swiss !! :)

[sillycar09]

It's much easier to tune around lower compression and higher boost -- theoretically, you are less likely to detonate because the flame front tends to dissipate more evenly across the flatter piston crown, and less likely to get hot spots, at least as I understand it. Go with the 9:1 or 8.8:1.

Moreover, with a turbo, you can always raise the boost if you want with fewer worries.

Ok ! Thanks ! Jlit ! :love:
Oh ya.. 9.1 or 8.8:1 can boost 20psi ++ But for me 14psi is enough :)
I will go for BIG TURBO WITH 10-14 Psi...
JLIT... our auto gts tranny oem can hold up how many whp ??240whp no problem ?
BC I dont want to install Hayden 677 .... :D

[jlitman]

JLIT... our auto gts tranny oem can hold up how many whp ??240whp no problem ?
So far so good.

[sillycar09]

Ok ! Thanks Guys!!
After receive MWR Product.. I will start my turbo project :D

[sillycar09]

Can the Turbo boost and LIFT open together ??
That's mean when above 6k rpm...LIFT and boost same time open...
The Horsepower will increase HUGE Hp ??!!

[youngxlos]

There really is no point in having the Turbo come in that late, depending o the Turbo you get they usually have full boost way before lift,even the GT35R.
besides if you have a good tuner you wont really feel lift as much.
The main reason why you feel that jerk is because there is such a change in lift/duration on the cam that it feels like a huge gain in power.
so in short, no you should never have the Turbo come to boost at 6k

[youngxlos]

Also you have to shift at 8400 that only gives you 2400rpm of boost. Your car would be slow.
Since you wont have any power till 6k

[sillycar09]

Also you have to shift at 8400 that only gives you 2400rpm of boost. Your car would be slow.
Since you wont have any power till 6k
Dear youngxlos , sorry for my bad explanation ...I think you misunderstanding here :) I mean when the turbo spool around 3k till 7.8k ...the LIFT still work at 6k ? If there's not huge hp gain between turbo + LIFT open... I think celica gts disadvantage to bolt on turbo... Because auto gts stock is 130whp with LIFT .... That's mean ..after turboed gts will lose 20whp for LIFT ?? :(
please correct If I'm wrong..
Thanks!

[Gtsjeg04]

So youre going to set your turbo to spool up after 6000rpm? Can you even do that? Why wouldnt you just let the turbo spool and change your transition point down to the 5000RPM area so its less noticeable and make the power curve way smoother. But yes you can boost and transition to lift at the same time.

[youngxlos]

no your not going to lose power at all.
I was confuse because of the way you said
Can the Turbo boost and LIFT open together ??
That's mean when above 6k rpm...LIFT and boost same time open...
While your in boost, your going to gain power no matter what, the engine is sucking in a ton of air.
but when the 2zz is tuned correctly you really dont feel the jerk lift gives you when your un-tuned.
because once you tune the air and fuel you pretty much smooth out the power band losing the big increase in power at lift.
you wont see that drop in torque/hp when lift comes in, you will just see a straight line going all the way up.
you get what i mean???

[youngxlos]

So youre going to set your turbo to spool up after 6000rpm? Can you even do that? Why wouldnt you just let the turbo spool and change your transition point down to the 5000RPM area so its less noticeable and make the power curve way smoother. But yes you can boost and transition to lift at the same time.
yeah i was confuse also, i didnt think you could select when the turbo kicks in, it just does it on its own.+
i think what he was asking is when lift kicks in he would get a ton more power. and yes you are but once tuned the power band will be smoothed out

[youngxlos]

here ill explain it with some dynos to help you understand it a little better.
bellow is a dyno graph on a stock ecu, with a dd intake manifold and few other mods.
as you can see when lift kicks in you see a huge drop in power and torque. that is when the car is not tuned.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v733/youngxlos/stock20vs20DD20manifold20-20same20t.jpg
now bellow we have the same car with the same mods tuned with a power fc.
look at the graph and what i pointed out, smooth power band all the way up.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v733/youngxlos/Stock20manifold20vs20DD20prototy-1.jpg
now do you get it?

[Gtsjeg04]

Isnt that lift point adjusted down the rpm range some as well.

[Smaay]

my lift comes in at 5400

[youngxlos]

Isnt that lift point adjusted down the rpm range some as well.
yeah but the tune is maximize so there is no hp lost

[Gtsjeg04]

Mine comes in 5000

[sillycar09]

So youre going to set your turbo to spool up after 6000rpm? Can you even do that? Why wouldnt you just let the turbo spool and change your transition point down to the 5000RPM area so its less noticeable and make the power curve way smoother. But yes you can boost and transition to lift at the same time.

No..
Gtsjeg.. For example : If using GT28RS will spool 2.5k until max rev right ??
What I mean is... What's the result during LIFT open while the turbo is spooling... Hehe... sorry bro :wiggle:
Bad english here...
Bad explaination... :(

[sillycar09]

no your not going to lose power at all.
I was confuse because of the way you said

While your in boost, your going to gain power no matter what, the engine is sucking in a ton of air.
but when the 2zz is tuned correctly you really dont feel the jerk lift gives you when your un-tuned.
because once you tune the air and fuel you pretty much smooth out the power band losing the big increase in power at lift.
you wont see that drop in torque/hp when lift comes in, you will just see a straight line going all the way up.
you get what i mean???

O !! I get It !! :wiggle: You mean when turbo spooling...It will gain like straight line going all the way up...no matter lift comes in...??
Thanks bro !! :D

[sillycar09]

here ill explain it with some dynos to help you understand it a little better.
bellow is a dyno graph on a stock ecu, with a dd intake manifold and few other mods.
as you can see when lift kicks in you see a huge drop in power and torque. that is when the car is not tuned.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v733/youngxlos/stock20vs20DD20manifold20-20same20t.jpg
now bellow we have the same car with the same mods tuned with a power fc.
look at the graph and what i pointed out, smooth power band all the way up.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v733/youngxlos/Stock20manifold20vs20DD20prototy-1.jpg
now do you get it?
Ok ! Understand now !! The result is bad when untune .....
Auto Gts dont have any piggyback to lower the LIFT point... :(
Thanks you very much !! Youngxlos ..Thanks your dynochart :)
Hmm..Do you have the dynochart for turboed GTS ??
I wanna see what's the result when HITTING LIFT ...

[sillycar09]

This is what I get from dynochart ...

http://dyno.newcelica.org/reyzin/dyno1.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/hilary33/dyno1.jpg

And..this is what I mean :D
This car is Turboed GTS..He is using Garrett GT28RS ...
and I saw It gain more hp when LIFT open :)
BTW..thanks guys for helping me ~!! (^_^)
cheers !!

[Gtsjeg04]

Yeah thats a stock transistion. If that transition was lowered and tuned in properly it would flow better.

[sillycar09]

Yeah thats a stock transistion. If that transition was lowered and tuned in properly it would flow better.

Yeah ~! Thanks Gtsjeg :)
Because last time I'm using small turbo GT25...the dynochart show that...the power drop when HIT LIFT ... maybe the turbo out of breath !!
So now I'm get GT28R...hope that my next project... will get a GOOD RESULT !! :wiggle:
Thanks ~~!
-vin-