Ksport Kontrol, RR, GT?

[zzz]

Okay so I'm looking for some new suspension for my corolla. The main requirement is that they will not blow and need to be pretty much bulletproof to giant potholes and freeway jumps in LA.

I hope we've all seen the disgusting Kontrol damper stress tests that showed how the adjustments made no difference for compression and the rebound was all out of whack between the shocks. If not, enjoy and gasp: http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123666252

Now, anyone have any info on the RR or GT dampers? Are they any better? Are they even different? The descriptions on Ksport's website say nothing concrete about them to justify the higher price tags. Keywords being "reinforced internals" and "aggressive valving", which mean not much since they don't elaborate. There is also talk that the RR dampers are simply the Kontrol dampers but are "made to order", as in, you pick a spring rate and they valve the shock accordingly--which again, is just talk and could not even be true.

On top of that, word is that D2 makes the coilovers for Ksport, yes, they look identical with different colors and the application chart is pretty near the identical.

All input appreciated!

[ksport_matt]

Hey, my names Matt and I'm the Marketing manager at Ksport USA. Google Alerts led me to this thread.
I hope i can help answer your questions here. "Better" depends on what you think may be better. Our version RR kit is structurally the same kit as the Kontrol Pro but re-valved and with different spring rates to match your vehicle and driving conditions. Usually people that order them are putting them ont rack cars. We do not recommend them for the street, especially with a vehicle that has close-to-stock weight.

The GT pro is structurally different.The Ksport GT Pro uses an inverted shock design, which provides several benefits. The biggest two are:
1. The oil seals and shock shaft are fully encased, which helps shelter them from the elements and road debris
2. The oil cavity is further from the brake system, which reduces heat absorption. The benefit here is that the oil in your shocks do not heat beyond optimal operating temperatures as easily, preventing unwanted/unexpected damper behavior.
Another important feature is that the GT Pro kits lower mounts are made of steel as the inverted kits are commonly used in off road rally situations.

As for that link to the dyno, lol, we have no idea what shocks those are, if they are even ours, if they were used, new, or they could have been defective, or from 5 years ago. That was posted by a Koni rebuild center, so most people don't read too much into it. If they were that bad top teams like Exedy, Hasport, Rado etc... would not use them. If each corner of the car was doing entirely different things, Ksport-equipped vehicles wouldn't even be able to stay ON the track, let alone win championships (http://nasachampionships.com/2009results.html)(Joe Ippolito won the NASA Nationals on Ksports in his TTE-Class Sentra SE-R and set records. (http://ksportusa.blogspot.com/2009/10/ksport-test-tune-at-buttonwillow.html) (One of several records held by a Ksport-equipped car.)

If you have any other questions, contact us or talk to LSD motorsports as they are a vendor on here and a great shop that can help you out.

Thanks,

Matt C.
Ksport Suspension Company
webmaster@ksportusa.com
Phone: 480-829-8100
Fax: 480-829-8103

http://www.twitter.com/ksportusa
http://www.facebook.com/pages/KSport-USA/116705032377#
http://ksportusa.blogspot.com

[zzz]

Thanks Matt for the info! A few points I'd like to address and ask a few more questions.

Since the RR damper is structurally the same as the Kontrol dampers, then you are incorrectly advertising the "reinforced internals" on your RR dampers.

As for the GT pro dampers, are they structurally stronger? I have a big problem with blowing the seals on shocks because of the roads in my area. You mention that the inverted monotube design is used in rally motorsports, are you implying that the GT dampers are suitable for off-road rally driving? Also, if I were to order these with custom spring rates, would you revalve them accordingly? What exactly do you do when you revalve them specifically for a certain spring?

In other words, can you explain why we need to do this? How does using too stiff of a spring (relative to the valving) affect the suspension?

[metal112524]

^ Awesome question. lets hear it.

[ksport_matt]

I agree with ^. These are great questions and I'm happy to be able to answer them for you guys. If anything gets over my head, I'll get one of our techs or engineers to write up a response. I'd much rather see someone do the research and decide what suspension system suits their needs, rather than just buying whatever and throwing it on the car.

As for the internals between a Kontrol Pro and RR Damper System, we use a different shim stack, different oil weight, and different pressure. What this means in terms of "reinforcement" is that the body is still the same however the internals have been beefed up. The mounts are also the same as our Kontrol Pro kit.

Our GT Pro (and other inverted) designs are structurally stronger than the Kontrol Pro and RR. Our GT Pro kit uses the inverted design. Picture turning the shock upside down, then wrapping the shock with another shock body. All shock seals and the shock shaft are fully encased. Our Gravel Rally (GR) kit uses the same design, with stronger top mounts and extended travel for rally use. So yes, you can certainly use the GT Pro kit for rally, but the Gravel Rally kit is better designed to do so. The GT Pro just is not designed for the more abusive conditions of a rally, compared to a road course. If you ordered the RR, GT Pro or Rally kit with different spring rates the shocks would be valved to match. On the Kontrol Pro we do not change valving without extra cost.

In asking about re-valving, we don't necessarily re-valve them since we won't build the kit until it's ordered, so we will just set the valving to match the spring rate.
About how valving and spring rates interact, the basics are:
If the shock valving is too soft (under-damped) for the spring it won't control the spring compression and rebound. This can be similar to a car with blown shocks. Your spring will be decompressing/compressing much faster than the shock can handle, causing you to "float" or "bounce" down the road. Many older American-made cars feel this way. If the valving is too stiff it will "overpower" the spring. High shaft-speed (potholes, manhole covers etc) will be very harsh. The shock is meant to control the spring, so damping has to match.

Thanks,

Matt C.
Ksport Suspension Company
webmaster@ksportusa.com
Phone: 480-829-8100
Fax: 480-829-8103

http://www.twitter.com/ksportusa
http://www.facebook.com/pages/KSport-USA/116705032377#
http://ksportusa.blogspot.com

[zzz]

Thanks Matt, that's very informative. I'm still poking around to see what I want to invest in.

You currently do not make a GR system for my car (2005 Corolla), would it be hard for you guys to make one up for me?

Also, on the subject of internals and seals, I have a question that not many people are able to answer, if any so far. Suppose you have some spring rate that matches your valve and whatnot, and you have the damper settings adjustable. Would driving the car on rough roads, potholes, big dips, cause more stress on the shock with the dampening set to very stiff or the dampening set to very soft? More people are inclined to say soft will cause less stress simply because it feels less rough in the car but does setting the damper stiff not cause the pressure inside the shock to be greater than if it were set to soft? Since the valve is not allowing the gas/fluid to travel from chamber to chamber as freely, would this not increase the pressure dramatically in the chamber where the gas is trying to escape from? I have always set my dampers on the stiff side, usually 75-90% of the adjustment to stiff and I've blown about 4 sets (not all 4 shocks, just one or two in each set). For reference, I've blown the Megan Racing Street Coilovers and the KW Suspension Variant 2 coilovers. The latter, I blew twice in a matter of 3-4 months.

The roads around my area are unusually rough, most stock cars scrape the bumpers on a few freeway dips. I've always purchased "road racing" coilovers and now am wondering if the solution is to get something more off-road oriented. The only setup I have not destroyed would be H&R Race Springs with Koni Sport Shocks (yellow ones) over 2 years. Could I just be very unlucky and gotten 3 sets of shocks that were defective? The chances of that seem impossibly low. I have had the chance to drive cars with Ksport Kontrol but, without offense intended, they seemed to handle and feel just like the Megan Racing coilovers.

With that said, is there a way you guys could seal the shocks in a more bullet-proof manner? Would that cause damage in other places? and when you say you change the oil weight, do you go with heavier or lighter oil in each setup? Why?

Thanks!

[zzz]

Ksport on vacation?

[zzz]

Uh.....