Another misshift victim - a little help here?

[QWKsilvr808]

One of my fellow GT-S owners in Hawaii recently misshifted his stock car just after a freeway onramp. Typical scenario, went for 4th, but grabbed 2nd instead. Now I've heard all the stories about bent valves and stuff, but his car blew its transmission to smithereens. I mean literally, I took a look at it after he had it towed to his house and I could see that the bellhousing blew into little pieces, it's not there anymore. The shrapnel looks like it took out a few other things too. Obviously there must be damage to the engine. He didn't know what had happened, he said he just shifted and heard *ktang-crash-ktang" and the sound of metal flying. He didn't realize he'd misshifted until too late.

He had the car towed into Toyota the Monday after the weekend it happened, and it's been there for almost two weeks waiting for someone to look at it. Initially they said it'd be no prob, that it would automatically be covered under warranty. Today they called him and said it isn't because they said they found burnt rubber on the inside of the wheelwell, and that the clutch showed he had been speeding. He will be calling Toyota Customer Care tomorrow, because they were closed already when he got the call today.

I know alot of you have had engines/trannies covered under warranty, and I've heard many times about the dealerships d*cking ppl around. I've also heard this SAME excuse for not covering the job - burnt rubber on the inside of the wheelwells. I dunno how true that is but I doubt that has anything to do with the car being in the wrong gear at freeway speeds. I'm looking for any advice you guys might have as to how to get this resolved - this guy really needs help. He wasn't racing anyone, just being a little over enthusiastic while jumping onto the freeway... I don't know how speeding can be considered abuse, I mean the car IS made to push 3rd gear past 6k (even tho you're obviously breaking the law at this point), it just sucks that he missed that gear.

Please, just looking for helpful answers/advice here, we all know about the bad driver factor (and in truth he's only been driving stick for less than a year), and this guy is going thru hell. If others have been covered, I'd just like him to be one of them too, so I can see him get back on the road in his car without having to sell a kidney. http://www.newcelica.org/ubb/frown.gif

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'01 GT-S 6-speed

Tanabe Racing Medallion Exhaust
Tanabe SUSTEC front strut tower bar
Tanabe Super Down Precedeo springs
Injen Race Division CAI
A'PEXi S-AFC
AutoMeter Pro Shift Lite w/blue lens
APC Euro CF tail-lights
APC clear frosted bumper lenses
18" RH EVO Z5000's w/215-35-ZR18 Nitto NT450's

pending:
Tanabe SUSTEC rear strut brace

[yakkosmurf]

Most people have had no problem getting their car fixed the first time. Just don't say anything about racing. I'll let the other misshift people chime in with details. Good luck getting his car fixed.

[Mjolnir]

All you need to know (Assuming that he has no engine Mod's):

Toyota: "What happened?"
Your Friend: "I was heading up the onramp and when I went to shift into 4th gear it dropped into second."
Toyota: "Were you racing?"
Your Friend: "NO, just accelerating to match highway speed."
Toyota: "What about the burned rubber etc.."
Your friend: "I have NO idea (Repeat x100)"


Be polite and courtious and stick to the story! If your friend has engine mod's all bets are off!

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hehe... they said they saw evidence of burn marks on the clutch.. thats kinda funny since it sounds like his clutch shattered when he misshifted..

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[oldster]

Originally posted by larryd:
hehe... they said they saw evidence of burn marks on the clutch.. thats kinda funny since it sounds like his clutch shattered when he misshifted..



Even if they could see them couldn't they be reverse burns, i.e. gotten from the tremendous friction generated when he missed the gear and shelled the tranny?

[QWKsilvr808]

Thanks for the ideas/replies guys! Yes his car is stock - no intake/exhaust. Larry/oldster, I was wondering the same thing about the clutch... it does seem to still be "hanging" there, and I also thought that would be a result of the clutch trying to hold the car in gear at that speed.

Update from today: They're claiming that the burnt rubber could only come from racing on the track. The tech said he's been going to the track for 10 years and he knows all about this stuff. I'd bet it has more to do with my friend learning to drive stick on this car and burning out all over the place figuring out how to drive. They also said that the tires show significant wear for 6k miles (which is what he has on the car). On top of all that, they claim that the car had to be going super fast to blow the tranny to pieces, a 3-2 shift would only result in bent valves, even a 5-2 shift wouldn't do that - so they say. They said by reading the clutch and tire wear, etc, that the tranny blew apart due to hard launching.

I'm pretty pissed at the excuses these guys are making up in their heads. The tranny blew to little pieces, and I'm not exagerrating at all, it really did. And to say the car couldn't possibly be going fast enough in 3rd gear to do this is utter BS. Personally I don't know how it even happened in the first place, I've seen dropped trannies, cracked casings, etc, but never one that grenaded. If it couldn't be done in 5th either, according to the service department, are they suggesting that the car was at the top of 6th? As if 6th was that much faster than 5th? And claiming that the tranny blew apart due to hard launching is pretty damned BS too. *sigh* And I dunno about the "significant tire wear"... I swapped my rims out before I even went to the track with my car and saw noticeable wear in the stock tires after only 5k miles.

He's gone back and forth trying to stand his ground and defend himself, but the guys at the service department keep giving him the shaft. The bill is said to be somewhere around $9k... he's called Toyota Customer Care, in the warranty section of the handout he was given when he purchased the car, but he keeps getting referred back to the service department. Once, he even got transferred to the head tech that was right in the office he was standing at the door to at the dealership.

So what does he do now? They're trying to corner him in and have his father come down to work out payment. Is there a national # he can call? Someone else he can talk to? Or does he just have to roll up his sleeves and go down there and fight tooth and nail? Personally, I'm thinking of making signs and marching in front of the dealership with the rest of the Hawaii owners and boycotting their asses. Is there anything more he can do besides just stand firm and bug them? Anything to turn the odds in his favor?

Thanks again for the help!

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'01 GT-S 6-speed

Tanabe Racing Medallion Exhaust
Tanabe SUSTEC front strut tower bar
Tanabe Super Down Precedeo springs
Injen Race Division CAI
A'PEXi S-AFC
AutoMeter Pro Shift Lite w/blue lens
APC Euro CF tail-lights
APC clear frosted bumper lenses
18" RH EVO Z5000's w/215-35-ZR18 Nitto NT450's

pending:
Tanabe SUSTEC rear strut brace

[wickedpete]

mods don't mean its off... I had a RMM intake and exhaust on mine and they even put my intake on the new engine for me.

[Brett]

That is total bull****, he needs to stand his ground and tell them they are full of ****. Thats all hypothetical excuses on top of that, they dont even have hard evidence of abuse. tire wear? Wtf does tire wear have to do with a god damn miss-shift. This is not replacing a clutch due to slipping. Jesus Christ these guys are assholes! argh I say all your Hawaii people Put a big banner on your windshield saying how much that dealership sucks. Best of luck man. I'd be Pissed off! Infact I am!<IMG SRC="http://www.newcelica.org/ubb/smilies/cwm23.gif" border=0>

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[DaksGT]

Call Toyota USA but the best bet I think is to have a lwyer write the dealership or toyota usa a letter, and if not do what brett said, fack em let em have it best of luck.

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2001 Liquid Silver Celica GT 5 spd
1993 Milano Red Civic Hatchback GSR

[celica gte racing]

i am confused...

how do you end up back in second trying to get to fourth? all you have to do is bring it back straight!

im sorry but you guys really need to learn how to drive<IMG SRC="http://www.newcelica.org/ubb/smilies/cwm6.gif" border=0>

[QWKsilvr808]

Originally posted by celica gte racing:
i am confused...

how do you end up back in second trying to get to fourth? all you have to do is bring it back straight!

im sorry but you guys really need to learn how to drive<IMG SRC="http://www.newcelica.org/ubb/smilies/cwm6.gif" border=0>

mmm... it happens I guess. Shyt that is. You always think you know what you're doing, and then blammo, shyt happens.

The real problem is cleaning it up afterwards.



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'01 GT-S 6-speed

Tanabe Racing Medallion Exhaust
Tanabe SUSTEC front strut tower bar
Tanabe Super Down Precedeo springs
Injen Race Division CAI
A'PEXi S-AFC
AutoMeter Pro Shift Lite w/blue lens
APC Euro CF tail-lights
APC clear frosted bumper lenses
18" RH EVO Z5000's w/215-35-ZR18 Nitto NT450's

pending:
Tanabe SUSTEC rear strut brace

[QWKsilvr808]

Originally posted by DaksGT:
Call Toyota USA but the best bet I think is to have a lwyer write the dealership or toyota usa a letter, and if not do what brett said, fack em let em have it best of luck.



Thanks for the tip! Do you know where I can get that #... is it in the manual or something? I gotta go check.



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'01 GT-S 6-speed

Tanabe Racing Medallion Exhaust
Tanabe SUSTEC front strut tower bar
Tanabe Super Down Precedeo springs
Injen Race Division CAI
A'PEXi S-AFC
AutoMeter Pro Shift Lite w/blue lens
APC Euro CF tail-lights
APC clear frosted bumper lenses
18" RH EVO Z5000's w/215-35-ZR18 Nitto NT450's

pending:
Tanabe SUSTEC rear strut brace

[2000 XYR]

<FONT size="1"> celica gte racing said:
i am confused...

how do you end up back in second trying to get to fourth? all you have to do is bring it back straight!

im sorry but you guys really need to learn how to drive</FONT s>Don't start up with that whole arguement again. I did it a few times. I never let the clutch out so no damage done (well almost once). I know everyone says it's 100% driver error and all that, but I also know that I've been driving manual trannys for 14 years and never before in any of those cars (all manual) did I ever hit the wrong gear. Not once. I personally think the whole Celica 6-speed is quirky. Maybe it's just the fact that it's a 6-speed instead of a 5-speed. If so, then the 6-speed isn't for me. Give me a nice 5-speed that I don't feel like I have to concentrate when shifting so I don't misshift it. Shifting should be second nature -- you shouldn't have to think about it. <IMG SRC="http://www.newcelica.org/ubb/smilies/cwm6.gif" border=0>

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2001 Ford SVT F-150 Lightning #6185 of 6381 (born on 8/14/01)
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<FONT COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by 2000 XYR on October 31, 2001 at 09:15 PM</font>

[QWKsilvr808]

Ok it seems two technicians tried to intimidate my friend. The two of 'em ganged up on him and told him to come clean about racing the car and they could maybe work something out on good faith. Otherwise he'll have to pay the whole bill for repair. This is getting ridiculous. Any and all #s we've tried to call keep referring him back to the same asshole he already talked to at the dealership, including Toyota Customer Care and the Toyota USA #. Even worse, all Toyota dealers in Hawaii are part of Servco Hawaii, so you have to talk to the same head guy no matter what dealer you go to. He's running out of options here, aside from legal action.

For those of you who had dealers give you the run around, how did you handle it? How high can we go to get someone to kick some ass around here? Or do these schmoes have the final word? Anything else we can do before getting some legal advice?

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'01 GT-S 6-speed

Tanabe Racing Medallion Exhaust
Tanabe SUSTEC front strut tower bar
Tanabe Super Down Precedeo springs
Injen Race Division CAI
A'PEXi S-AFC
AutoMeter Pro Shift Lite w/blue lens
APC Euro CF tail-lights
APC clear frosted bumper lenses
18" RH EVO Z5000's w/215-35-ZR18 Nitto NT450's

pending:
Tanabe SUSTEC rear strut brace

[ALANlll]

Did the transmission lock up after the clutch blew up. If it did, then the tires would lock up and then would produce burnt rubber in the wheel wells. Not very much, but it would and that seems to be a reasonable arguement to nullify the burnt rubber remark they made. Just play dumb with them. The second you seem like your informed about cars, they will think you were racing. So just stick to your story and act technically clueless. Otherwise, if they still **** with you about it, get a lawyer involved. Hope this helps a little

[DaksGT]

Originally posted by QWKsilvr808:
Ok it seems two technicians tried to intimidate my friend. The two of 'em ganged up on him and told him to come clean about racing the car and they could maybe work something out on good faith. Otherwise he'll have to pay the whole bill for repair. This is getting ridiculous. Any and all #s we've tried to call keep referring him back to the same asshole he already talked to at the dealership, including Toyota Customer Care and the Toyota USA #. Even worse, all Toyota dealers in Hawaii are part of Servco Hawaii, so you have to talk to the same head guy no matter what dealer you go to. He's running out of options here, aside from legal action.

For those of you who had dealers give you the run around, how did you handle it? How high can we go to get someone to kick some ass around here? Or do these schmoes have the final word? Anything else we can do before getting some legal advice?


Fack it get a lawyer bro that's the only way they'll listen to you.



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2001 Liquid Silver Celica GT 5 spd
1993 Milano Red Civic Hatchback GSR

[autxr]

Well, for starters, he should get a lawyr to make some calls. Your buddy shouldn't be talking to the dealership anymore, just the lawyer. $500 spent on a lawyer now may get him a new engine. That's an $8500 savings.

Your friend should make one moer trip to the dealership. He should take 2 copies of a letter, in that letter he should have arep. at the dealership agree they will do NO MORE WORK on the car until your friend instructs them to do so. They should sign both copies of the letter. One for their records, one for your friend.

Come on now, even if the lawyer can't get it covered, then get a junkyard/import engine and tranny(like Larry D) for $1000-3000 (it all depends), and have a shop (not the dealership) install the new parts. That saves money, and the crappy dealership service department doesn't get anything.

Scott

[QWKsilvr808]

Thanks so much for the advice guys! I've already told him to stop talking to the dealer... and you guys are right, I think legal action is the only avenue left. I also told him that finding a engine off of a wrecked GT-S would be a better option... keep the ideas coming if you have any! http://www.newcelica.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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'01 GT-S 6-speed

Tanabe Racing Medallion Exhaust
Tanabe SUSTEC front strut tower bar
Tanabe Super Down Precedeo springs
Injen Race Division CAI
A'PEXi S-AFC
AutoMeter Pro Shift Lite w/blue lens
APC Euro CF tail-lights
APC clear frosted bumper lenses
18" RH EVO Z5000's w/215-35-ZR18 Nitto NT450's

pending:
Tanabe SUSTEC rear strut brace

[QWKsilvr808]

UPDATE: Toyota Hawaii has agreed to cover all expenses for parts related to the complete repair of the vehicle. Cost being somewhere in the neighborhood of $9k, including a new trans, engine, axles, and various other components. Provided that my friend pays for labor, which they estimate to be somewhere upwards of 40 hours at $86/hour. The bill should be around $3600 or so.

My friend is just glad that he doesn't have to suck the whole bill, and I'm happy for him. Thanks for all the help guys. http://www.newcelica.org/ubb/smile.gif

btw, does this sound fair to you?

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'01 GT-S 6-speed

Tanabe Racing Medallion Exhaust
Tanabe SUSTEC front strut tower bar
Tanabe Super Down Precedeo springs
Injen Race Division CAI
A'PEXi S-AFC
AutoMeter Pro Shift Lite w/blue lens
APC Euro CF tail-lights
APC clear frosted bumper lenses
18" RH EVO Z5000's w/215-35-ZR18 Nitto NT450's

pending:
Tanabe SUSTEC rear strut brace

[dawgg]

no way. Plenty of people have been in the same situation and the dealerships have agreed to pay 100% of the bill. He shouldn't pay a cent. What kind of BS is that? By offering to cover the cost of parts under warrenty the dealership is admitting that there is a defect in the car and that Toyota should cover it or else they wouldn't cover any of the cost. Either they cover the full price or they cover non of it... there's no 50/50 split. Since Toyota has covered 100% of the cost for many other people there's no reason it should be any different for your friend. Get a lawyer and put together a list of people that have had blown engines/trans repaired for free. Good luck.

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[REdOX]

Hey QWKsilvr808! Sorry to hear about your friend.. seems like he got himself in a bit of trouble. I hope that he gets out of it. By the sounds of it the dealership is admitting there is a problem with the car if they are willing to shell out the cost of the parts.

It's sad to hear about ****ty dealerships like that. Every time I bring my car to get an oil changed I get a comment card mailed to my house. I always give them good reviews cuz they are the best dealership I've ever gone to.... anyways, I'm pretty sure that they should cover it 100%, no if, and or buts.

To go off topic for a bit, what kinds of things would you experience if you had bent valves? Can someone answer me that? Cuz the engine sounds a bit louder and rougher when I let go of the gas at low speeds. And it jerks a lot when I let go of the gas too. I don't remember mis-shifting though... Anyone?

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<FONT COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by REdOX on November 10, 2001 at 01:34 AM</font>

[QWKsilvr808]

Thanks again for the opinions and words of encouragement! Yeah REdOX, my friend really got himself into the shytter. I myself thought the bill for labor was quite stiff - damned Servco Hawaii. Apparently, according to an e-mail from Toyota USA, they are independent of them and subject to different policies. Not like dealers in the continental U.S. - I tell ya, they really have us by the balls here in Hawaii.

How much labor did you other guys tally up to do the same job? Does this sound ridiculous? I don't think he should pay either, but if he's satisfied with the decision, then I support him. If it were me, I'd still be trying to kick some ass. And REdOX, yeah having a bad dealer really sucks. The worse thing is, that altho we have 5 different Toyota dealers here, they are all operated by SERVCO Hawaii, which essentially makes them all the same dealer. Dagnabit.