Can you build an MP62 Intercooler manifold from Lotus parts? [Archive]

Gravel

05-27-2010, 05:18 PM

This is something I've been wondering ever since I saw the picture of that Lotus intercooled 2ZZ...

So, not long after I got my Greddy S/C kit, I went to my local Lotus dealer and tried to buy some of their spare parts...

I came home with these :)

http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/881102697_4VGMu-L.jpg
http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/881102892_ChBk6-L.jpg

They won't just fit under the bonnet of a Gen 7 though:
http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/446483647_nkis8-L.jpg
http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/446483432_XThhS-L.jpg

So I sat down and had a long, long think...

Gravel

05-27-2010, 05:32 PM

What I really needed was some way of getting the air into the engine from the left - how about flipping the intake casting - would it fit then?

http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/881119169_ovHJU-L.jpg
http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/881120508_WKHAj-L.jpg
http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/881121963_cpRaF-L.jpg

Hmm, maybe... :)

JameX

05-27-2010, 05:52 PM

I'm subscribing to this. Hmmm, keep us updated. If you make it work, I'll be contacting you. Good luck!

Gravel

05-27-2010, 06:03 PM

So I did a little CAD, and a bit more thinking, and then my engine went tits up :(

http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/862375485_txeY8-L.jpg

But at least with the engine out, I could do some more measurement, some more CAD, and some more thinking...

Ah, sod that - if you want to know if something's going to fit, just bloody build it!

Draw round a gasket...
http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/881130603_mUZqp-L.jpg

And a manifold you know fits...
http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/881130748_vb64y-L.jpg

Do some drilling and sawing...
http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/881131005_6Unme-L.jpg

Bolt on the manifold you want to fit...
http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/881131094_Cdnib-L.jpg

I'm sure I'm missing something - ah yes, a supercharger...
http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/881131179_EnQQ6-L.jpg

Looks like there might be some room to get the air out of that charger...
http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/881131503_Psabg-L.jpg
http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/881131390_nEwa7-L.jpg

But the supercharger's intake is a bit in the way:
http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/881131728_yRQy4-L.jpg

So, I guess I need to try again in something a little tougher than pine - but this time, I really do want to do some CAD first, now that I have a wooden model to measure from.

I just need to get the locations of all those important bolt and runner holes in accurately, so I'm going to measure something that does fit...

Need to get it lined up all square on the mill...
http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/881132017_KUcbF-L.jpg

JameX

05-27-2010, 06:26 PM

Smaay

05-27-2010, 07:59 PM

where have you been, im already doing this with an M90

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=309031

JameX

05-27-2010, 08:32 PM

where have you been, im already doing this with an M90

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=309031

Can't speak for gravel, but in my case, ufortunately I already have the greddy so I have to work with what I have. Yours wasn't available at the time, if it would, I surely had purchased it -we don't even have an ETA or price on yours right now-

second, you already said you aren't making a coversion/intercooling kit for the mp62. If you had, I would be first in line. So whenever I see a ic project on the works I hope it works so I can make myself one. Hombre and Justin did one already but they have to work out a few issues.

jlitman

05-27-2010, 08:51 PM

Joe -- you probably will have to hack up the swan neck like I did.

many

05-27-2010, 10:03 PM

Shizuma

05-27-2010, 11:25 PM

^ That might work.

ps: I hate the Celica's hood clearance.

Gravel

05-28-2010, 01:23 AM

Awesome man, congrats on your determination. I hope you get it worked out. I wish I had the time and resources. I'd love to intercool my s/c too. How much did the Lotus parts run you for?

Also, were you able to sort out your lift issues?

Thanks - we'll all get to see if it works or not - that's the point of this thread :)

No, my lift issues are not resolved, but given that there probably aren't going to be any original parts left in my engine by the time it's back together, it's unlikely to be a mechanical problem once it's done...

IIRC I paid about

Gravel

05-28-2010, 01:27 AM

where have you been, im already doing this with an M90

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=309031

Yes Smaay, yours is lovely, I even said so in that thread back in 2009...

I didn't say this project was sensible, original or likely to succeed - it is however mine! :)

Gravel

05-28-2010, 01:27 AM

Joe -- you probably will have to hack up the swan neck like I did.

I was planning to make a new one...

Gravel

05-28-2010, 01:31 AM

http://www.vignando.com/albums/Many/Lotus_inlet_mod_2.jpg
Why don't you cut it at the red line and reweld the intake pipe where the blue line is....that way you retain the superchargers hook up points!

If you can weld, which I can't, you could just saw through the runners, flip the manifold body and re-weld...

I'm still not sure that the output port of the Lotus casting would fit under the bonnet, but I guess you could re-orient the s/c to help things fit...

many

05-28-2010, 06:41 AM

If you can weld, which I can't,
Just bring them to a machining shop that do TIG welding. Walk in the with your part and explain them what you want. If you feel some hesitation from their part, just take it to another one, continue until your comfortable with them. I have 2 guys that I know that awesome....I don't care about the price their work is excellent....after a while they will get to know you and your expectations.

Gravel

06-08-2010, 05:05 PM

Just bring them to a machining shop that do TIG welding. Walk in the with your part and explain them what you want. If you feel some hesitation from their part, just take it to another one, continue until your comfortable with them. I have 2 guys that I know that awesome....I don't care about the price their work is excellent....after a while they will get to know you and your expectations.

I may well end up doing that, or even just showing them the Lotus part and saying, 'Make me one that faces the other way' and have one welded up from sheet/tube, but for now, I'm going to keep on with this a bit longer...

Gravel

06-08-2010, 05:10 PM

Haven't had much time to work on this recently, but managed to get some measurments at the weekend, and a bit of CAD done tonight...

http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/894701180_oFUFv-L.jpg
http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/894701045_KU5xz-L.jpg

The outlet pipe from the supercharger is a bit tight - I've only got an I.D. of 48mm here - just under 1.9".

jlitman

06-08-2010, 08:21 PM

No, my lift issues are not resolved, but given that there probably aren't going to be any original parts left in my engine by the time it's back together, it's unlikely to be a mechanical problem once it's done...
Are you replacing the head? I still vote for the rockers not working properly :shrugs:

The outlet pipe from the supercharger is a bit tight - I've only got an I.D. of 48mm here - just under 1.9".
Ergh... that could be a bit of a bottle neck. What's the diameter on the inlet, 2.5"? No room for larger even if you move the TB down?

Gravel

06-09-2010, 01:21 AM

Are you replacing the head? I still vote for the rockers not working properly :shrugs:

I need to inspect them all and get a price for them before I decide what to do. It isn't a big deal to replace just the rockers once the engine is back together - but it might require some re-shimming so probably best done when I do the valves/springs - I'll probably end up with new cams anyway... :)

Ergh... that could be a bit of a bottle neck. What's the diameter on the inlet, 2.5"? No room for larger even if you move the TB down?

The inlet is indeed 2.5" OD --> 58mm ID (~2.28") so 1.4x larger area than I have. The real clearance problem is between the IM part and the top of the supercharger. The only way I can see to improve on this is to use an oval air outlet - 40x70mm ID is within spitting distance of the same area as 58mm round. It might even be easier to machine too...

jlitman

06-09-2010, 06:37 AM

40x70mm ID is within spitting distance of the same area as 58mm round. It might even be easier to machine too...
That's cool -- great idea! I'd try and do that then. Desirable, I should think, to keep the inlet and outlet dimensions as close as possible.

the ronin

06-09-2010, 07:59 AM

Dude why take air in from the left ? If you realy need to you can contact VF Superchargers and buy one of their manifolds which enter stage left.... Sinclaire/Essex autosport are dealers in the UK

Gravel

06-21-2010, 05:34 PM

Dude why take air in from the left ? If you realy need to you can contact VF Superchargers and buy one of their manifolds which enter stage left.... Sinclaire/Essex autosport are dealers in the UK

I don't think there's any room to take air in from the right and still close the bonnet - the Celi is pretty but there's bugger all room in the engine bay for any more toys :(

Thanks for the link - they seem to be selling some twin-charging-lunatic branded s/c kit :gap:

Gravel

06-21-2010, 05:44 PM

Well, I've started working with something a bit tuffer than pine ;)

I drilled some mounting holes to mount it to the intake flange I'm making...

http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/909130467_8VjkJ-L.jpg

That's a 5kg lump of 6082 Aluminium - it's going to have to go on a serious diet...

And here's the little pen-knife I'll be whittling with :)

http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/909130606_Uhymw-L.jpg

Things started off pretty well...

http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/909130318_k8YXz-L.jpg

But I got bored and rather too aggressive and lunched one of the sacrificial gears in my mill :(

I really need to get my CNC up and running again, or build a new one...

evilthorne

06-21-2010, 10:51 PM

Gravel

11-07-2010, 05:51 PM

Well, I've had a bit of time on my hands, so I've had at that big lump of ally and there's about 1/2 of it left now. It's not pretty, but it's getting there...

http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/1081727518_nqnxd-L.jpg

It's a bit hard to see, but that lump will hopefully take the hot air out of the s/c and off to the 'cooler.

It bolts onto a flange which also holds the flipped Lotus intake manifold:

http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/1081728193_nkbqc-L.jpg
http://digits.smugmug.com/photos/1081727194_KNifG-L.jpg

The end with the pen marks needs to be bored/milled to take an outlet pipe. I'm not 100% sure how I'm going to cut that yet - it's a bit too tall standing up to machine, but I'm sure I'll think of something.

I might take a break and CNC this mill though - all the handle cranking is getting tedious, and CNC is so much more flexible in terms of the shapes you can cut.

yodaddyguido

11-14-2010, 12:12 PM

Gravel

11-16-2010, 04:21 PM

use some cutting oil or wd40, the finish on those cuts look awful :wiggle: that mill looked pretty small, can it handle a cutter that diameter rigidly enough? maybe snag a smaller 4insert shell mill. might make work a little easier for ya

They are just roughing cuts - I'll try and make it pretty if/when I know it'll all fit.

It's only a 250kg mill - a bit light for a 63mm face mill, but the 50mm cuts pretty well - it's a lot faster than a pen-knife anyway ;)

yodaddyguido

11-16-2010, 06:23 PM

lol no kidding. ive always wanted to try a fab idea like this, only with the trd charger for the gt... to fit the gts. not even sure if its possible, but its not like i dont have the resources to create any bracketry/plating/bushings id need. anyways, not to threadjack, best of luck with your project! cnc mills can do amazing things with the right programs :D

NoOg_sTaR

02-15-2011, 10:00 AM

Just wondering has there been anymore developments in this? I am currently looking into WMI but if a intercooler can be fitted. I would much rather this.

GSBoek

02-15-2011, 11:13 AM

You'll have to hear from Gravel himself. Check his build in the F/I section, he's rebuilding his engine again.

evilthorne

02-25-2011, 11:19 PM

Gravel

03-01-2011, 01:37 PM

Just wondering has there been anymore developments in this? I am currently looking into WMI but if a intercooler can be fitted. I would much rather this.

Well, sort of - I decided to convert my mill to CNC and then my engine blew up.

So my time/space/budget for this project took a bit of a hit but I do intend to finish machining a prototype, and it might even turn out pretty!

Gravel

03-01-2011, 01:38 PM

varsol works very well on aluminum.

I had full flood on my last CNC - and I'd really like to have it again, but that does mean building an enclosure...

Gravel

10-31-2011, 02:19 AM

Well, it's been a while since I update this. I've been too busy working and racing the car to do any work on this. I also finally decided to convert my mill to CNC - it's just not fun getting showered in hot chips.

I think this project is going to take a fair bit longer, but here's a taste of how it's been progressing...

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many

11-05-2011, 08:53 PM

Damn that looks fine! Any pictures of the finished product?

Gravel

11-06-2011, 11:47 AM

Cheers Many - unfornuately the S/C outlet block is scrap. The CNC'ing cutting of the inside went more or less OK, but I'd accidentally removed too much metal during my initial manual milling attempt. There is a large hole in it, unfortunately - but it has been a very valuable learning experience!

I'll post some pics later - I want to practice all the cuts on this chunk of metal before I order a new on and start again.