Does anyone know the pricing and availbility of TVS chargers?

[Gravel]

Does anyone know the pricing and availability of the Eaton TVS chargers? I'm probably most interested in the r900 and r1050's...

Cheers.

[Boosted2.0]

You might want to ask Phil?

[many]

You might want to ask Phil?

He is not a vendor and why does he have the right to have, in his sig a link of his web store/site? seems very unfair to all of those that pay for that privilege....

[bt216]

^good point. :eatpop:

[the ronin]

He sells bullshiet, I guess that's allowed.....

I have it from Magnuson that a direct MP62 replacement TVS900 is coming out soon...
This I was told two weeks ago.

[Boosted2.0]

He is not a vendor and why does he have the right to have, in his sig a link of his web store/site? seems very unfair to all of those that pay for that privilege....

Dunno - good question though - I pay $350 / yr for the privilege.

I will ask Larry about that.

To be fair, its a link to a post on another forum, but it is a post advertising his kit.

[Gravel]

I have it from Magnuson that a direct MP62 replacement TVS900 is coming out soon...
This I was told two weeks ago.

Cheers, that does sound interesting!

[the ronin]

Don't hold your breath but it is going to be a direct flange match.

[Gts*Jason]

Do you have an eta on when?

[turbophil]

If you take the time to look at the compressor map for the 900, you will see that it won't provide the increase in performance over the M62 that you're probably looking for. Not a whole lot different than turbos, you have to go bigger if you want performance greater than what the OEM would normally provide.

The 900 should be a nice improvement for the OEM application that would have otherwised used the M62 in passenger cars and light trucks. It's MUCH quieter and will provide better fuel economy with pretty comparable power figures (it's a smaller pump than the M62 but with greater efficiency). However, if making more power than the M62 is your goal, you have to put a bigger air pump on there, eg 1320.

In regards to availability both the 900 and the 1320 are slated to be available from mag by the end of the year. Currently the 1320 is available from Harrop.

-Phil

[the ronin]

If you take the time to look at the compressor map for the 900, you will see that it won't provide the increase in performance over the M62 that you're probably looking for. Not a whole lot different than turbos, you have to go bigger if you want performance greater than what the OEM would normally provide.

The 900 should be a nice improvement for the OEM application that would have otherwised used the M62 in passenger cars and light trucks. It's MUCH quieter and will provide better fuel economy with pretty comparable power figures (it's a smaller pump than the M62 but with greater efficiency). However, if making more power than the M62 is your goal, you have to put a bigger air pump on there, eg 1320.

In regards to availability both the 900 and the 1320 are slated to be available from mag by the end of the year. Currently the 1320 is available from Harrop.

-Phil

Where the hell do you get this bullshiet from.....A slight improvement ?
Seriously dude stop trying to push your crap and move on..:fawk:

[turbophil]

Not pushing anything. I leave the pushing up to you since you're so good at it. Seems like this year you've even become good at pushing your car since it's broke down most of the time;)


We're just reading compressor maps here. You should give it a try some time... The 900 will be a great blower for the OEMs, but you'll still zing it out way passed it's best adiabatic efficiency if you want to make more than 300 (probably a fair bit less) dynojet whp on a 2ZZ. Showing your age old dyno graph with 3XXwhp on the M62 with umpteen heat exchangers, a dime sized pulley, and a shamefull torque curve a is not good grounds to say something works well when really you just applied a very big bandaid... The 900 is good, but there's no data from Mag or Eaton saying that it's *that* good...

[Gravel]

Hmm, OK, so without wanting to be standing in the middle of the mother of all flame-wars...

According to Eaton, the TVS chargers are all named by their pumping capacities per revolution...

If the 2ZZ could manage 100% VE, it would need 0.5 * 1.8L * 8500rpm = 7,650L/min of nice cold air at atmospheric pressure, I think...

Say we wanted twice the power - can I bone-headedly assume we need 2x the air & fuel to get it (ignoring a shed load of other factors including supercharger drive power)? So about 15,000L/min by my ghetto maths?

So that would need an r900 to run at (15,000L/min / 0.9 L/rev) = 17,000 rpm, or a r1320 to run at (15,000 / 1.32) = 11,000 rpm no? :shrugs:

What would the pressure ratio be - is 2.0 anywhere close? If so, I read it as 70% efficiency for the R1320, and 65% for the R900 assuming that's not beyond its safe rpm limit...

Speaking of which - what speeds do people run r1320's and MP62's at? :shrugs:

[turbophil]

You're on a good path. Now apply parasitic loss and adiabatic efficiency of the complete system and you need to wind tighter to get the power I would imagine you're looking for.

On the M62, it's common to see 3" pulleys. Some push to 2.5" pulleys on that blower. It's not efficient with those 2.5" pulleys and requires a lot of cooling to make up for this. If you track the car, a 2.5" pulley on the 62 will be short lived. If you street the car, you can probably get plenty of time out of it but again, a lot of cooling to make up for it being way off its island. It's also extremely loud at that level and can get you black flagged at many tracks without some creative muffling of the intake tract.

I don't think anyone is really spinning the TVS1320 super tight even though it can handle the RPMs quite a bit better than the M62. We're all trying to keep it pretty efficient are not shooting for max power. To my knowledge, most TVS users are focused mainly on a good balance between delivery, reliability, and power. If max power were the goal, we'd be looking at a turbo obviously. Smallest pulley anyone is running is 70mm (2.75") that I know of. I've been tracking mine with that. BWR is the National XP champion with his making right at 400whp on a dynojet and E85 on his. Again with a 70mm pulley. That makes about 15-16psi boost-ish.

-phil

[the ronin]

Not pushing anything. I leave the pushing up to you since you're so good at it. Seems like this year you've even become good at pushing your car since it's broke down most of the time;)


We're just reading compressor maps here. You should give it a try some time... The 900 will be a great blower for the OEMs, but you'll still zing it out way passed it's best adiabatic efficiency if you want to make more than 300 (probably a fair bit less) dynojet whp on a 2ZZ. Showing your age old dyno graph with 3XXwhp on the M62 with umpteen heat exchangers, a dime sized pulley, and a shamefull torque curve a is not good grounds to say something works well when really you just applied a very big bandaid... The 900 is good, but there's no data from Mag or Eaton saying that it's *that* good...
Dude you are a fucckin joke, you pissed your pants and tossed your cookies after a ten min ride up the hill in my car..:fawk: At the time it ran one heatexchanger and half the chargecooler....:fawk:

Anytime you grow a pair of balls let's take it to the track and see what that pice of shiet TVS can do against my car... Got any money to put down puss y ?

2.5" pulley same size Lotus ran for the GT3 win..:fawk:
As for data ya gotta know who to talk to chump..:fawk:
The 900 will make 400 hp but you know better right chump ..:fawk:

[the ronin]

You're on a good path. Now apply parasitic loss and adiabatic efficiency of the complete system and you need to wind tighter to get the power I would imagine you're looking for.

On the M62, it's common to see 3" pulleys. Some push to 2.5" pulleys on that blower. It's not efficient with those 2.5" pulleys and requires a lot of cooling to make up for this. If you track the car, a 2.5" pulley on the 62 will be short lived. If you street the car, you can probably get plenty of time out of it but again, a lot of cooling to make up for it being way off its island. It's also extremely loud at that level and can get you black flagged at many tracks without some creative muffling of the intake tract.

I don't think anyone is really spinning the TVS1320 super tight even though it can handle the RPMs quite a bit better than the M62. We're all trying to keep it pretty efficient are not shooting for max power. To my knowledge, most TVS users are focused mainly on a good balance between delivery, reliability, and power. If max power were the goal, we'd be looking at a turbo obviously. Smallest pulley anyone is running is 70mm (2.75") that I know of. I've been tracking mine with that. BWR is the National XP champion with his making right at 400whp on a dynojet and E85 on his. Again with a 70mm pulley. That makes about 15-16psi boost-ish.

-phil
What fucckin bull shiet Phool ..none of you chumps are puttin anything close to 400 hp out because you can't tune the shiet...
Fred runs his car for a woppin 45 sec. and then has to shut down because your shiet chargecooler runs too fucckin hot....:wiggle:

The M900 TVS can run 23,000 rpm says my buddy at Magnuson, Phool knows shiet.
I run my MP62 at 18,000 rpm and it hasn't been a problem....

Keep tryin chump :fawk:

As for the BS of the MP62 not up to the job here is one of your buddies callin your crap out...

Quote robains:
Things that I've expected to fail but have NOT -- like my M62 Supercharger being spun to produce 14 psi rather than just 7 psi -- still cranking out the pressure without a hickup. Or my stock transmission that is somehow still holding up to 287 wHP and 187 ft/lbs -- it must have at least 40 hrs of track time on it. Or my stock oil pump gears that seem to be holding up to repeated 8600 rpm hits.

and this guy realy tracks the crap out of the car not like some Kannsass puss y.

[Gravel]

You're on a good path. Now apply parasitic loss and adiabatic efficiency of the complete system and you need to wind tighter to get the power I would imagine you're looking for.

On the M62, it's common to see 3" pulleys. Some push to 2.5" pulleys on that blower. It's not efficient with those 2.5" pulleys and requires a lot of cooling to make up for this. If you track the car, a 2.5" pulley on the 62 will be short lived. If you street the car, you can probably get plenty of time out of it but again, a lot of cooling to make up for it being way off its island. It's also extremely loud at that level and can get you black flagged at many tracks without some creative muffling of the intake tract.

I don't think anyone is really spinning the TVS1320 super tight even though it can handle the RPMs quite a bit better than the M62. We're all trying to keep it pretty efficient are not shooting for max power. To my knowledge, most TVS users are focused mainly on a good balance between delivery, reliability, and power. If max power were the goal, we'd be looking at a turbo obviously. Smallest pulley anyone is running is 70mm (2.75") that I know of. I've been tracking mine with that. BWR is the National XP champion with his making right at 400whp on a dynojet and E85 on his. Again with a 70mm pulley. That makes about 15-16psi boost-ish.

-phil

Noise is definately an issue - until I saw a video of my car on track, I didn't know it sounded so much like an air-raid siren - I bet you can count my gear changes from 2 miles away :AF:

I'm not shooting for big power - I need torque at low revs as this is a sprint car - I spend nearly all my time in 2nd and 3rd, usually wishing 2nd was 2,000 rpm longer or 3rd 2x stronger so I didn't have to change gear.

[Gravel]

The M900 TVS can run 23,000 rpm says my buddy at Magnuson, Phool knows shiet.
I run my MP62 at 18,000 rpm and it hasn't been a problem....



OK, so it works - but is it a good idea? Looking at the compressor charts, that looks bloody inefficient unless I'm reading this map wrong - an MP62 is basically an M62 with a bypass valve, isn't it? :shrugs:

http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsServices/ProductsbyCategory/Automotive/RootsSuperchargers/GenVPerformanceMaps/index.htm

That M62 chart only goes to 13,500 rpm, and it's down in the 54-40% efficiency range already...

I'm not saying you aren't making a shed load of power, but you are also making a shed load of heat...

I wonder if the r1050 might be an even better fit for the 2ZZ - right in the middle...

[turbophil]

Gravel,

Sorry for the side bar with Frank. He cracks me up...

The 900 just won't do much for ya. I've worked with the TVS on the 2zz more than anyone. I talked to Mag near weekly, there's no big secret there or they wouldn't be talking to folks about it... Especially someone like Frank who's not even a Mag client. lol.

The 900 is an OEM and aftermarket replacement for the M62. The flange is the same so that OEMs and aftermarkets won't have retool their housings to accomodate it. It will be great on a modern gen 1 mini cooper, miata, or other lower hp/L engines than the 2ZZ-GE. Fact is that the 2ZZ-GE is really high output 1.8L. Much more than most engines of its size. The reason the M62 is spun so tight for our application is because the motor moves a lot of air. The M62 was intended for bigger motors, yet we take it well beyond it's efficiency island with our little 1.8L. You don't need a calculator to figure this stuff out. A friend of mine designed the Cosworth Miata Kit. It runs the M62. The 900 will be great for that car. Makes about 250 at the the fly. Big difference than the M62 2ZZ-ge guys making 250 at the wheel. We all agree on that;)

If you want to run 300whp and up, the 1320 is great for high performance applications. The 1050 isn't really on the drawing board for a vehicle application and given how fast we're spinning the 1320, I don't see where going down in blower size is going to make a bit of sense...

And FWIW- I don't just sell the TVS blowers outright. They're too hard to get to let one loose for giggles. I did it one time and that's it. You can probably buy one from Harrop or MWR. I don't sell kits for the toyota cars either. Again, contact MWR if you want one. As my fans like Many mentioned, I'm not a site sponsor. If I ever come out with a kit for ya'll, I'll change that.


Phil

[the ronin]

Gravel,

Sorry for the side bar with Frank. He cracks me up...

The 900 just won't do much for ya. I've worked with the TVS on the 2zz more than anyone. I talked to Mag near weekly, there's no big secret there or they wouldn't be talking to folks about it... Especially someone like Frank who's not even a Mag client. lol.

The 900 is an OEM and aftermarket replacement for the M62. The flange is the same so that OEMs and aftermarkets won't have retool their housings to accomodate it. It will be great on a modern gen 1 mini cooper, miata, or other lower hp/L engines than the 2ZZ-GE. Fact is that the 2ZZ-GE is really high output 1.8L. Much more than most engines of its size. The reason the M62 is spun so tight for our application is because the motor moves a lot of air. The M62 was intended for bigger motors, yet we take it well beyond it's efficiency island with our little 1.8L. You don't need a calculator to figure this stuff out. A friend of mine designed the Cosworth Miata Kit. It runs the M62. The 900 will be great for that car. Makes about 250 at the the fly. Big difference than the M62 2ZZ-ge guys making 250 at the wheel. We all agree on that;)

If you want to run 300whp and up, the 1320 is great for high performance applications. The 1050 isn't really on the drawing board for a vehicle application and given how fast we're spinning the 1320, I don't see where going down in blower size is going to make a bit of sense...

And FWIW- I don't just sell the TVS blowers outright. They're too hard to get to let one loose for giggles. I did it one time and that's it. You can probably buy one from Harrop or MWR. I don't sell kits for the toyota cars either. Again, contact MWR if you want one. As my fans like Many mentioned, I'm not a site sponsor. If I ever come out with a kit for ya'll, I'll change that.


Phil Fucck you Phool, I see my buddy from Mag every sunday on the hill you pissed your pants on....:wiggle:

You spin TVS 1320 and make no power...all hot air..:fawk::eek:

The TVS900 is a OEM replacement on what cars phool ?
I can't seem to find anyone at this time using the MP62 as standard equpitment on a new car.

Funny how the flange was not the same as the MP62 until Magnuson desided to put it in their castings... Magnuson make their own housings, Phool..

IwishIhadaTurboPhil is a fucckin joke..:wiggle: