NCDS ***IS*** BS... 46 days down, replacement vehicle denied

[Tony01Gts]

Just got the letter with the results from my arbitration. My case was denied. I am really thinking that these arbitrators are in some way with Toyota. My car was in the shop for a total of 46 days, 5 of them due to misshift. So figure that out, 41 days were THEIR fault. The arbitrator states that the use, value, or safety of my vehicle is NOT affected therefore my car is NOT going to get replaced. I think this is a LOAD of SH&T. I can't sell this vehicle. If someone asks for the service records, what am I gonna do, lie and just give them the oil changes? If they contact the dealership, they are gonna find out this vehicle has had about $15,000 worth of warranty work. The arbitrator states that my transmission problems were due to my misshift, but they were there before the misshift, the dealer just SAID my car was fine when I took it in.
So what am I gonna do? First off, I'm going to appeal the decision. I'm gonna find out HOW this company is related to Toyota and what other companies use them. Second, I'm gonna talk to a lemon law lawyer and see what they say. This arbitration is a serious blow to any lemon law case since it IS admissable in court. My other option is:
The Southeast Toyota manager said that I can trade my car in, and they will give me near FULL retail value, and sell me an 03 at NEAR cost since a lot of the problems with my car was the dealerships fault. I'm gonna take my car up to the dealership and see what they will give me for it, and how much it will cost me to get into an 03. I CANNOT keep this car, it doesn't feel safe and it is has proven itself to be a total PIECE of SH*T. This is God's Chariot that was sent to hell. I LOVE the Celica but this one is a rotten apple. I guess I'm gonna see what they are willing to do for me at the dealership. I WANT another Celica.
All in all, I do NOT recommend anyone use NCDS. Just take it to lemon law. These people are obviously somehow related to Toyota and are NOT neutral. Anyone can see from the problems with my car, that they are WAY beyond acceptable.
http://www.tones321.com/celicaproblems.htm

Here's the decision by the arbitrator:

http://www.tones321.com/celica_arbitrationdecision1.jpg

http://www.tones321.com/celica_arbitrationdecision2.jpg

[Tony01Gts]

Woah!!! I missed that! Unreasonable customer vehicle use??? What MISSHIFTING??? That's a load of sh*T!!! F#CK the NCDS!!!

[Griffin]

Dude - full retail value for a car you have driven for 2 years is a pretty sweet all things considered. I'd take teh trade and saddle up in a brand new 03 :)

Griffin

[Tony01Gts]

Yeah, I know... I'm just disappointed in this whole arbitration thing.

[Brett]

That sucks dude. That is exactly why I did a Documents only hearing. for one I didnt want any bias on my age, and two it has a public opinion involved, as well as an SAE Certified Technician, and ofcourse an arbitrator. Anyways, that really blows man!

[Brett]

That goodwill statement seems to give Toyota a lot of credibility when they make their decisions. I'm glad I didnt missshift my car

[BRAK]

They are telling the truth with the Car seats covers , and the headlight issue ..... thats just not going to make your car go down in price, and with the buttons sticking ... thats also not gonna cut it. Honestly i see there argument with that one! Those are nitpicky , but do need to get fixed. You are still getting a GOOD deal with full retail , remember COMPANIES ARE NOT GOING TO HAND YOU THE UPPER HAND. But they did give ya a good deal, Just get the 03, You will be happy ...... common now .... take a deap breath, look at what you got .. its not soo bad ....now smile:D .
Say im good enough...... im smart enough ..... and dog gonit people like me!LOL (aka saturday night live)

[Tony01Gts]

LOL yeah... I will be happy when they tell me what they are going to give me for my car and what deal they will give me on the 03.

[Griffin]

Nods - kinda makes sense though... "well Mr. Arbiter we already gave him like 14K worth of free stuff when he blew his engine in a non warrantable failure"

and then Mr. Arbitor things "Gee, they already have lost a bunch of money on the car and all thats wrong is some seat covers and a bit of a problem with the paint... The kid has a point about a lot of time in the shop but Toyota has operated in good faith here... not really fair to punish them further"


It may also make a differnce that the arbitrator knows something you dont - when a car company buys back a car it costs them not only the price of the decision and the losses when they sell teh car at auction, but theres also about 10 grand worth of paperwork, fees, etc. It generally costs in excess of the original purchase price to buy back when all is said and done.

/shrug... just pointing out the other side of the coin.

Griffin

[TRD-CELICA-GT02]

Sorry to hear the bad news. Just make note, when you do get a deal on an 03. Just be safe and take good care of it. Its not worth racing and miss-shifting and having to go thru this type of issh again.

I guess people TRY to take advantage of Toyota's Warranty. Think they can abuse their car and expect Toyota to pay out of the a** for their mistakes. Let this case be a lesson and h opefully prevent another....

Best of luck to you on what happens. Let us know if ya do get an 03.

[futureceli]

thanks for the reply Tony01. man that really sucks. I guess they do work with/for toyota. Anyhoo, atleast you will be getting a good deal on the 03. Make the best of it!

[insunan]

"Paint problems are due to environmental factors and in any event do not represent a significant impairment to value."

I'm going to have to disagree with this - anyone looking to purchase a car isn't going to pay nearly as much for a vehicle with visible damage to the paint. Would you? That's a no-brainer.

And Toyota replacing a misshifted engine shouldn't matter squat if, like you said, it only accounted for 5 days of the 46. It is true that they didn't have to replace the engine. But suppose you do community service in a gesture of "goodwill" and "appreciation" of the community you live in. Do you think if you rob a bank in that same community that it should be overlooked because earlier you did some service that you really didn't have to?

ON THE OTHER HAND, I'm not so sure a brand new replacement vehicle free of charge would be appropriate for 41 days of downtime. Even though the arbitrator rule against you, you're still getting one heck of a deal. I'd move up to the '03.

[nyoneway]

I'm with Toyota in this one. Sorry man.

[chrissi24]

My friend had a bitch of a time Lemon Lawing her Tacoma. They argued with her througout the whole ordeal ~ which took well over a year. (and she got nothing out of it)

It was such a nasty thing that the inspector would say he'd be at her house at a certain time and he would never show up. Then one time her neighbor said that there was a person parked in their front yard and when my friend left her house, the person inside the truck went over to her front door and left a note on it. Come to find out, the note was a letter from the inspector saying that he tried to inspect the car, but could not get inside of it because it was locked. He was supposed to be there a half hour earlier ~ he was, just waiting in front of the neighbors yard!!

And to top it all off, this girl worked for Toyota. How ****ty is that.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Tony01Gts

So what am I gonna do? First off, I'm going to appeal the decision.

If I'm not mistaken, the arbitration is Binding Arbitration. Thus, you cannot appeal.

[heltor2]

You are mistaken.

It is binding on Toyota since the arbitration company is hired by them. It is not binding on the customer.

It seems that NCDS arbitration is more of a way for Toyota to gather evidence and an official looking ruling to use against you in a real case with actual impartial people presiding.

What makes no sense is why Toyota would use NCDS while Lexus uses state-certified BBB Autoline for their arbitrations.

Heltor

[Brett]

I really didnt have a problem with the NCDS. It went smooth and in the end they ruled in my favor. I'm curious though if it would be the same ruling on your case if you did a closed documents only with written statements from both parties. I guess we'll never know. In my case though if the deal turns out to suck on the repurchuse of my car I can always get a lawyer and ream them in court, and use the NCDS papers to back up my claim. Like I think they shouldn't charge mileage from the first major problem. and What about the 2+ months I didnt have a car? Or the Towing costs I had to pay? etc, there should be some negotiating in my opinion. We'll see though. I will start working with Toyota on my new vehical soon.

[pepsiman]

Hey Tony.. i didn't get a letter yet but im preparing for another one if i don't win this time..
i have an arbitration form from Florida Department of Agriculture and Comsumer Services.
Good Luck!