Celica owner turned Lotus owner...newb needs some help!

[celicancer]

Hey guys,

I'll try to keep this short. Long time Celica owner and recently became a turbocharged Lotus owner. I have tried to gain more information from the Lotus community in regards to turbo applications, but since most people run superchargers, the resources are limited. I'm hoping that I can direct a lot of my questions here since there are a lot of similarities with the 2 vehicles' drivetrains.

I don't have much experience working on cars so I have a lot to learn.

I will give more details as needed, but my first question is:

I am going to an EFI standalone ECU that will parallel with the factory ECU. This is for inspection/emission purposes. If I was to unplug the standalone, plug back in the factory ECU, replace my 550cc injectors with stock ones, and zip-tie open the wastegate, do you think my factory ECU would be able to handle the 100 or so miles necessary to get the OBDII codes in a ready state? Also, I am running 8.8:1 low compression pistons and I have an aftermarket 255lph Walbro fuel pump, if that will have any impact.

In addition, I plan on taking off the underpanel and taking lots of pictures this weekend. I would appreciate the helpful input of anyone who sees something else questionable with the install or will at least point me in the right direction on what to look for. Thanks!

[monkeywrench]

Your MAF must be installed in a stock-sized tube and you must have a cat installed for your emissions plan to work. We've had several customers do this. Fuel pump and compression won't matter.

[celicancer]

Your MAF must be installed in a stock-sized tube and you must have a cat installed for your emissions plan to work. We've had several customers do this. Fuel pump and compression won't matter.

Thank you for the response. The car currently has a high-flow cat on and the previous owner told me that, after installing the cat, the car did pass a mock smog test.

So are you saying that I would NOT need to replace injectors once I switch to the stock tune? Would this not result in the car running incredibly rich or would the factory ECU adjust for this? What about the turbocharger? Do I need to find a way to force the wastegate open so that it doesn't build boost? Or is there another route I should take?

Lots of questions, I know. :)

[Gts*Jason]

are you just trying to pass a smog check or is there a visual inspection you must pass as well? Do you have to meet C.A.R.B. standards?

[Boosted2.0]

Matt is saying that in addition to installing the injectors and ECU you ALSO need to switch in a stock ID intake tube and stock MAF to be sure everything is running normally.

As an alternative, you can just take the charge pipe from the turbo, pop it off, put a cap on the turbo inlet and install a N/A intake tube. That way there is NO chance of running more air than you should.

[celicancer]

are you just trying to pass a smog check or is there a visual inspection you must pass as well? Do you have to meet C.A.R.B. standards?

I am trying to pass the emissions test and the OBDII test in Texas. As far as I know, the visual test here only consists of checking the lights, mirrors, horn, tint, etc., and does not extend to performance mods.

I don't live in Cali so I don't need to meet CARB standards. I believe Texas standards are much less stringent, and most people that have some sort of cat on have passed emissions.

Basically, I want to be able to plug in my stock ECU and drive the car around for the 100 miles or so it takes to get all of my codes off of "Not Ready" so I can limp into an inspection station and pass. In addition, this would need to be done in a way that doesn't cause my car to throw OTHER codes (which would ruin the entire point of doing this) as well not cause any damage to the components in the process.

So far the recommendations I have gotten are:

switch to factory ECU
have a cat on
switch to stock injectors
zip-tie the wastegate open
make sure the MAF is in a stock tube size

[celicancer]

Matt is saying that in addition to installing the injectors and ECU you ALSO need to switch in a stock ID intake tube and stock MAF to be sure everything is running normally.

As an alternative, you can just take the charge pipe from the turbo, pop it off, put a cap on the turbo inlet and install a N/A intake tube. That way there is NO chance of running more air than you should.

Ohh ok that makes sense.

Again, I'm very new at all of this, so pardon my potentially dumb questions.

I did a google search but I want to reaffirm what I found. Is the chargepipe the tube the runs from the intercoolor to the intake manifold? And this is where my BOV is connected? What would be the benefit of doing this over zip-tying the wastegate open? Boost creep?

So if I was to find a stock intake tube/airbox (or whatever type of filter comes on these cars stock), and replaced my current intake with this, as well as plugging in the stock MAF into the bung on the stock tube, then that would take care of that issue?

Again, thanks for your help so far.

[Boosted2.0]

I am trying to pass the emissions test and the OBDII test in Texas. As far as I know, the visual test here only consists of checking the lights, mirrors, horn, tint, etc., and does not extend to performance mods.

I don't live in Cali so I don't need to meet CARB standards. I believe Texas standards are much less stringent, and most people that have some sort of cat on have passed emissions.

Basically, I want to be able to plug in my stock ECU and drive the car around for the 100 miles or so it takes to get all of my codes off of "Not Ready" so I can limp into an inspection station and pass. In addition, this would need to be done in a way that doesn't cause my car to throw OTHER codes (which would ruin the entire point of doing this) as well not cause any damage to the components in the process.

So far the recommendations I have gotten are:

switch to factory ECU
have a cat on
switch to stock injectors
zip-tie the wastegate open
make sure the MAF is in a stock tube size

I would advise switching to an open air breathing air tube personally. It eliminates any chance you would go into boost and harm the motor.

[Boosted2.0]

Ohh ok that makes sense.

Again, I'm very new at all of this, so pardon my potentially dumb questions.

I did a google search but I want to reaffirm what I found. Is the chargepipe the tube the runs from the intercoolor to the intake manifold? And this is where my BOV is connected? What would be the benefit of doing this over zip-tying the wastegate open? Boost creep?

So if I was to find a stock intake tube/airbox (or whatever type of filter comes on these cars stock), and replaced my current intake with this, as well as plugging in the stock MAF into the bung on the stock tube, then that would take care of that issue?

Again, thanks for your help so far.


Yes - charge pipe is from I/C to TB

The WG zip tie is an attempt to keep the turbo from spooling, but it is VERY hard to keep it from doing so at higher RPMs.

This is why I would switch to an intake tube that is in no way shape or form connected to the turbo. It provides a total gaurantee you will not lapse over into boost. It will likely also make it much easier to pass all your monitors.

So if I was to find a stock intake tube/airbox (or whatever type of filter comes on these cars stock), and replaced my current intake with this, as well as plugging in the stock MAF into the bung on the stock tube, then that would take care of that issue?

Yep - absolutely.

And you are correct about Texas - they check your car with an OBD2 scanner. As long as the computer is happy and all your brakes and turn signals and all that work you are good to go.

[celicancer]

Yes - charge pipe is from I/C to TB

The WG zip tie is an attempt to keep the turbo from spooling, but it is VERY hard to keep it from doing so at higher RPMs.

This is why I would switch to an intake tube that is in no way shape or form connected to the turbo. It provides a total gaurantee you will not lapse over into boost. It will likely also make it much easier to pass all your monitors.



Yep - absolutely.

And you are correct about Texas - they check your car with an OBD2 scanner. As long as the computer is happy and all your brakes and turn signals and all that work you are good to go.

OK well I'll try to avoid messing with the wastegate.

So even if I take the charge pipe off, will the engine exhaust still be running through the turbo on the way out to the catalytic converter? Is this an issue?

Also, my current setup is very similar to this:

http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=185894

Where the intercooler is located where the stock airbox was at. Does this mean that I will have to remove the intercoolor as well or could I get a shorter intake that would sit behind the intercooler? And would that be long enough to hook a MAF to?

[evilthorne]

What is the motor situation as well, and what are you running currently for engine management?

[dead_star04]

Where in Texas you taking it for inspection? If you can, register it in a non emissions county. This will get you out of a smog test ( non emissions counties in Texas just do regular inspections, no testers in the tail pipe, no obd2 hookups). I'm an inspector, have to deal with this all the time. Hell, if your ever in alpine, stop by the shop, I'll pass ya.

[celicancer]

What is the motor situation as well, and what are you running currently for engine management?

The setup is currently as follows:

GT2860RS turbo
Darton sleeved/decked/line-honed
ARP hardware
Wiseco 8.8:1 pistons
MWR valves/springs/retainers
RC 550 injectors
Walbro 255 lph fuel pump
CircuitWorx oil gear
Moroso oil pan
Spearco A/A intercooler
GReddy oil catchcan
Turbosmart BOV
Fidanza 4:3 ceramic clutch/flywheel

It is running off of a reflashed factory ECU by CharlieX. It also has wideband hooked up (I believe), and I guess it is just being used for monitoring purposes (I have a wideband gauge on my pod).

But, like I said earlier, the reflash just isn't cutting it. I really need to have it tuned via a standalone and take advantage of wideband.

Where in Texas you taking it for inspection? If you can, register it in a non emissions county. This will get you out of a smog test ( non emissions counties in Texas just do regular inspections, no testers in the tail pipe, no obd2 hookups). I'm an inspector, have to deal with this all the time. Hell, if your ever in alpine, stop by the shop, I'll pass ya.

How difficult is it to register in a non emission county? I just moved to Texas from Arkansas so all of this is new to me. I was under the impression that you had to register the vehicle in the same county of your residence...is this incorrect? Haha and I would love to come by your shop for inspection, but unfortunately 500 miles is a long way to drive an ostentatious Lotus with no tags. :)

[the ronin]

You should leave the Charlie ecu in place and call Jermaine for a custom tune and get a used stock ecu for smog... Or you can go with an AEM plug and play at half the price of the EFI.

www.Lotussport.org

[celicancer]

You should leave the Charlie ecu in place and call Jermaine for a custom tune and get a used stock ecu for smog... Or you can go with an AEM plug and play at half the price of the EFI.

www.Lotussport.org

Are you saying that I should just get a new reflash on my current factory ECU? I've thought about this and have actually spoken to Jermaine about it, but everyone but him are saying that they think a standalone is necessary if I want to tune the car to its best potential as well as have a car that idles well and doesn't stall on cold starts.

[Smaay]

have a car that idles well and doesn't stall on cold starts

leave it stock then

[celicancer]

leave it stock then

nty

[dead_star04]

There are only 16 counties in Texas that do smog. Which county you live in? I have the list of the counties by my inspection desk, I'll let ya know if your in one or not. Come on, 500 miles ain't nothin'!

[celicancer]

There are only 16 counties in Texas that do smog. Which county you live in? I have the list of the counties by my inspection desk, I'll let ya know if your in one or not. Come on, 500 miles ain't nothin'!

Hey I would LOVE to take my car on a 500 mile road trip...it's just that I'm not so sure the local law enforcement would be as supportive haha. :)

I live in Irving which I believe is in Dallas county. Since I'm new here I have yet to learn which shops I need to get good with in order to slide by these sort of things.

[dead_star04]

Yeah man. Unfortunately Dallas is one of the emissions county. Might want to ask Dave (Boosted2.0) if there are any shops that might give ya a break. You can still get an inspection in a non emissions county, we just make you sign a form saying that you'll get the rest of the testing done later. Just for shyts and giggles, these are the counties
Brazoria, Collins, Dallas, Denton, el paso, Ellis, ft. Bend, Galveston, Harris, Johnson, Kaufman, montgomery, Parker, Rockwell, ad tarrant. My bad 15. Technically, if you have your cat/other emissions bs, and a smog compliant intake, you should be good. Our district supervisor for inspections actually said that on efi vehicles, we don't even look for a carb sticker in any but the above mentioned counties. Let us know how it turns out for ya man

[celicancer]

Does anybody know if I need a oil pressure regulator adaptor for the oil line going into my GT28RS? Garrett says it recommends using one, but after doing some searching a lot of people don't agree with this or say that the built-in one works fine.

I'm going to include some pictures of the setup this weekend and I'm hoping that some of you can help me improve anything that doesn't look correct. I know I am going to wrap some hoses near the turbo so they don't get damaged, but other than that I'm not real sure what else to look for.

Also, I just took this picture of the turbo inlet on the old turbo that was in my car. It's on my cell so sorry for the crappy quality. It looks like pieces are missing from the middle as well as some markings on the blades. What would cause this?

http://i51.tinypic.com/35a53ra.jpg

Yeah man. Unfortunately Dallas is one of the emissions county. Might want to ask Dave (Boosted2.0) if there are any shops that might give ya a break. You can still get an inspection in a non emissions county, we just make you sign a form saying that you'll get the rest of the testing done later. Just for shyts and giggles, these are the counties
Brazoria, Collins, Dallas, Denton, el paso, Ellis, ft. Bend, Galveston, Harris, Johnson, Kaufman, montgomery, Parker, Rockwell, ad tarrant. My bad 15. Technically, if you have your cat/other emissions bs, and a smog compliant intake, you should be good. Our district supervisor for inspections actually said that on efi vehicles, we don't even look for a carb sticker in any but the above mentioned counties. Let us know how it turns out for ya man

Do you have any experience with the low-mileage waiver that Texas gives out? According to the website, one can be given out if you fail the emissions part of the inspection...do you know if I could use this for a car that would basically not pass any OBDII codes because of it only running a standalone ECU?

[celicancer]

Actually now that I think about it, those marks may just be where they balanced the turbo? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong...

[the ronin]

:AF: Dude those are balance points.... You do know that Lotus guys are unwelcome here.

[celicancer]

:AF: Dude those are balance points.... You do know that Lotus guys are unwelcome here.

All of this is new to me, so any information that people want to give me to assist in better-understanding this car will be very helpful, especially if they can skip on the criticism. Everyone has to start somewhere.

Since the drivetrains are so similar, I am using all avenues I can to help me learn. That being said, I think I'll take my chances despite getting berated by the occasional Celica e-thugs. :rolleyes:

And technically I am a Celica/Lotus guy. :)

[the ronin]

Lotus suck, take a look at this chump...He thinks his stupid compound charger will work...:blah:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jOakcr92W0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bNGBZAg4jc

[celicancer]

Lotus suck, take a look at this chump...He thinks his stupid compound charger will work...:blah:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jOakcr92W0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bNGBZAg4jc

Wonderful. Now come fix my car. :)

[the ronin]

Give Jermaine a call at Vision Function (USA) ph : 1-240-243-0193
8041 Queenair Drive Suite 1
Gaithersburg, MD 20879

He has fixed a number of forcedfed cars with your issues..

Come over to www.Lotussport.org if you wanna talk Lotus but stay on both sites for 2ZZ information..... I love the internet for finding most of the answers..

[Boosted2.0]

What problems are you sorting through aside from the emissions deal?

[celicancer]

What problems are you sorting through aside from the emissions deal?

Oh I guess it's not really anything too bad...I'm more just ranting haha.

My "laundry" list includes:

1. Wrapping a few hoses near the turbo in heat wrap (I think even I am capable of doing this without screwing too many things up haha).

2. Installing a oil pressure regulator adaptor on the oil line going into the turbo (still not sure if this is necessary...looking for a concrete answer).

3. Taking pictures and sending it to Forced Fed to see if they think any of my components need to be replaced (this turbo kit was pieced together from a partial Forced Fed turbo kit).

Assuming all is well, I need:

1. To figure out how on earth to hook up the EFI unit myself. I really don't want to pay someone hundreds of dollars to do it if I can do it.

2. Tune it obviously.

And related to inspection, I need:

1. To see if it is possible/viable to run a super duper short intake with factory diameter/factory MAF that will get my car running enough for inspection while still letting me keep my intercoolor installed.

I know most people could probably knock this out in a weekend but this is very new to me.

[the ronin]

Dude save yourself now before you toast the engine and have a real tuner do the work you will never be able to get right the first time, no one does.
There is so much more than just setting AFR and boost.

Unless you are looking for a new engine pay now before you have to pay big time later.
This I know..

[Boosted2.0]

1 - you are starting at the wrong end. Ceramic coat the turbine housing and all teh exhaust part. Then add a heat shield around them if you want even more containment. This will help in 2 ways - the heat kept in the exhaust will actually increase performance, and it also decreases heat load on everything. Its stilla good idea to put some reflective insulation on hoses nearby however.

2 - always follow manufacturers reccomendations.

3 - Post them up here too if you want input.

As for the inspection, I think there is a cheap SPectre plastic CAI peice you can buy at Autozone thats damn close to stock ID for the pipe and costs like $10 or $15

[celicancer]

Dude save yourself now before you toast the engine and have a real tuner do the work you will never be able to get right the first time, no one does.
There is so much more than just setting AFR and boost.

Unless you are looking for a new engine pay now before you have to pay big time later.
This I know..

Oh I'm not going to even attempt to try to tune it. I don't know the first thing about tuning. I simply want to try to "prepare" the car to be tuned as opposed to someone else, because I have no desire to charge someone $100-$150/hour to do something if I can do it.

1 - you are starting at the wrong end. Ceramic coat the turbine housing and all teh exhaust part. Then add a heat shield around them if you want even more containment. This will help in 2 ways - the heat kept in the exhaust will actually increase performance, and it also decreases heat load on everything. Its stilla good idea to put some reflective insulation on hoses nearby however.

2 - always follow manufacturers reccomendations.

3 - Post them up here too if you want input.

As for the inspection, I think there is a cheap SPectre plastic CAI peice you can buy at Autozone thats damn close to stock ID for the pipe and costs like $10 or $15

Thanks for the advice! This is the type of stuff I'm looking for. :)

I'll definitely look into ceramic coating the turbo. When you say "exhaust" are you referring to the exhaust side of the turbo or my actual exhaust? I believe my exhaust from the manifold through the cat all the way to the tip is coated in some sort of material for heat reasons, but I'll verify that.

On that note, how do those turbo heat shield kits compare to ceramic coating (for instance, something like this: http://www.heatshieldproducts.com/productdetail/turbo-heat-shields-and-down-pipe-insulation/hp-turbo-heat-shield/64/33)? I would assume that the ceramic coating is better, but is it significant?

Yeah I'll be sure to post tons of pictures of the setup this weekend for people to give me advice.

Finally, I think I've seen what you are talking about at auto stores...I have just heard people say that your MAF should try to be a certain length down from the intake opening on a straight pipe or else you are going to get crazy readings and you could potentially damage your engine. Obviously I could be completely wrong on all of this.

[ajh1717]

You do know that Lotus guys are unwelcome here.

Aww poor guy, to bad no everyone kisses ass.

[the ronin]

Aww poor guy, to bad no everyone kisses ass.

Sarcasm. :wiggle:

[Boosted2.0]

Thanks for the advice! This is the type of stuff I'm looking for. :)

I'll definitely look into ceramic coating the turbo. When you say "exhaust" are you referring to the exhaust side of the turbo or my actual exhaust? I believe my exhaust from the manifold through the cat all the way to the tip is coated in some sort of material for heat reasons, but I'll verify that.

On that note, how do those turbo heat shield kits compare to ceramic coating (for instance, something like this: http://www.heatshieldproducts.com/productdetail/turbo-heat-shields-and-down-pipe-insulation/hp-turbo-heat-shield/64/33)? I would assume that the ceramic coating is better, but is it significant?

Yeah I'll be sure to post tons of pictures of the setup this weekend for people to give me advice.

Finally, I think I've seen what you are talking about at auto stores...I have just heard people say that your MAF should try to be a certain length down from the intake opening on a straight pipe or else you are going to get crazy readings and you could potentially damage your engine. Obviously I could be completely wrong on all of this.

You want a top quality ceramic coating on EVERYTHING in the exhaust side from the head to the tailpipe. AFTER you have that add the turbo blanket you linked. If you do JUST the blanket it just promotes rust.

You want a good 4-6 inches of straight pipe in front of the MAF if you can fit it.

[celicancer]

You want a top quality ceramic coating on EVERYTHING in the exhaust side from the head to the tailpipe. AFTER you have that add the turbo blanket you linked. If you do JUST the blanket it just promotes rust.

You want a good 4-6 inches of straight pipe in front of the MAF if you can fit it.

OK I just checked my records and the exhaust has been coated in a JET-HOT coating from the turbo back to the tail pipe. However, I'm not sure about the header.

That's the problem - I just don't know if I have room for 4-6 inches of straight pipe. My side mount intercooler takes up just about all of the space.

[Boosted2.0]

Pics

[celicancer]

Pics

I will take plenty this weekend once I can get the car jacked up and remove the underpanel.

Edit: Actually I guess I could go ahead and take some pics from the hood when I get home tonight.

[Boosted2.0]

I will take plenty this weekend once I can get the car jacked up and remove the underpanel.

Edit: Actually I guess I could go ahead and take some pics from the hood when I get home tonight.

I don't want to see your radiator or relay box. Take pics under the engine cover instead ;)

[celicancer]

I don't want to see your radiator or relay box. Take pics under the engine cover instead ;)

Haha I'll be sure to use correct terminology from here on. :)

[celicancer]

Here's 3 pics I took real quick when I got home. I'm not sure if this will show anything but it's the best that I can do until I take the underpanel off. The first is the left side of the engine bay where the intercooler is located. The second is the right side where the intake is at. The third is my attempt to take a picture of where the header connects. I'm not sure how to tell if the header is powdercoated or not...any advice? Also, note how there isn't much room to put an intake on because of the intercooler.

http://i53.tinypic.com/2im0whu.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/fjj8g0.jpg

http://i51.tinypic.com/256scb4.jpg

[the ronin]

Seriously dud call Jermaine he fixed your exact issue a few months ago on another car...
You can screw around on the internet or you can get your car fixed right now..

[celicancer]

Seriously dud call Jermaine he fixed your exact issue a few months ago on another car...
You can screw around on the internet or you can get your car fixed right now..

I talked to Jermaine about a month ago, as well as the developer of the Forced Fed kit. They have told me what they recommend, which is scrap the reflash and break down and get the EFI unit. Jermaine will be my go-to guy for tuning this.

That being said, smaller things such as heat wrap, oil regulator, intake tube, etc., I'm trying to tackle and learn myself so I am using other mediums in hopes that I will be able to find explanations and discussions as to why I should or should not do certain things. This will help me to hopefully actually be semi-competent in regards to working on my own vehicles.

After forking over 3600 dollars to a local shop to simply remove my old turbo and install a new one, I decided I had enough of spending a fortune to pay someone else to do something that I capable of doing.

[Boosted2.0]

How hard is it to remove that intercooler?

[celicancer]

How hard is it to remove that intercooler?

I'm not real sure honestly. From taking a quick peek, it looks like some of the brackets can only be accessed by taking off the back left wheel and wheel liner, but beyond that I don't really know.

However, as I'm sure you can tell, there isn't a lot of room to work with in regards to getting an intake on there, so I may not have any other choice.

[Boosted2.0]

Yep. Your only other option would be to remove the pipes and put on an intake with a 90 to the TB and then the long straight going back towards the trunk.

[celicancer]

Yep. Your only other option would be to remove the pipes and put on an intake with a 90 to the TB and then the long straight going back towards the trunk.

Well I actually found out some interesting info as I delved further into the laws here in Texas. I knew there was a waiver for low-mileage cars where the requirements were as follows:

(A) Eligibility. A vehicle may be eligible for a Low Mileage Waiver provided that it has:
(i) failed both its initial emissions inspection and re-test; and
(ii) incurred qualified emissions-related repairs, as defined herein, whose cost is equal to at least $100; and
(iii) the vehicle has been driven less than 5,000 miles in the previous inspection cycle; and
(iv) the vehicle will be reasonably expected to be driven fewer than 5,000 miles before the next safety inspection is required.

...and it defines "emissions-related repairs" as:

Qualified emissions-related repairs are those repairs to emissions control components, including diagnosis, parts and labor, which count towards a Low Mileage Waiver.

Now if I was to simply plug in my reflashed ECU so I get OBDII codes but still fail emissions, I wonder if they would fall under this criteria? In addition, I wonder if I could even keep my standalone hooked up (which would not give out OBDII codes) and fail emissions, if I would qualify for this as long as I passed visual inspection?

I need to make some phone calls.