My Opinion about no turbo for celicas

[Kry]

Have you guys noticed that the new celica is not papular in japan?

well therefore i asked my japanese friends.. why? when i read the latest japanese car magazine.. and i never seem a celica in the magazine..
there are always rx-7, siliva, gtr, supra, or AE86 etc...
then my friends said.. the last celica.. the 6th gen celica.. have a GT4 version it have 250 hp turbo which is so powerful that people don't want the new celica, coz new celica doesn't have GT4 version..(it actually have three version in japan GT, GT-S and GT-SS(suprer strut or something i forgot)

well so japanese think it's just a daily driving "LOOK FAST" car..
that's why.. greddy, hks, blitz those japanese companies didn't make turbo for celica, because both u.s. market and japan market demand.
just my 2 cents..correct me if i am wrong.

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"The feeling you get from a good drifting is euphoric, almost spiritual. The car and you as one."
Night Speed (http://www.joe.chiang.com/tns/)

<FONT COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Kry on November 09, 2001 at 03:54 PM</font>

[vvtlikick]

Originally posted by Kry:
it actually have three version in japan GT, GT-S and GT-SS(supra strut or something i forgot))

The versions are SS-I (like the GT), SS-II (like the GT-S), and SS-II Super Strut Package (like the GT-S with a different front suspension and a helical LSD for manual transmission models, and a couple other changes). Also, there was a limited edition TRD Sports M version, a slightly tweaked SS-II Super Strut.

I don't think the Celica is just a "Looks Fast" car, it handles and brakes as good as anything for the price, and has impressive straight-line acceleration. Ithink it's not as popular overseas, because in Europe it's exceedingly expensive, and in Japan, there's alot more competition in the affordable sports/sporty car market.

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<FONT COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by vvtlikick on November 09, 2001 at 03:38 PM</font>

[Slade_Templar]

They need to bring back the 3sgte motor and put it in the celica =P 200hp/200tq, easily modifiable. Gee, thats what i have in my car and whats in the GT4.

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[Celica RZ]

Originally posted by Kry:
Have you guys noticed that the new celica is not papular in japan?

well therefore i asked my japanese friends.. why? when i read the latest japanese car magazine.. and i never seem a celica in the magazine..
there are always (rx-7, siliva, gtr, supra, or AE86 etc...
then my friends said.. the last celica.. the 6th gen celica.. have a GT4 version it have 250 hp turbo which is so powerful that people don't want the new celica, coz new celica doesn't have GT4 version..(it actually have three version in japan GT, GT-S and GT-SS(supra strut or something i forgot))

well so japanese think it's just a daily driving "LOOK FAST" car..
that's why.. greddy, hks, blitz those japanese companies didn't make turbo for celica, because both u.s. market and japan market demand.
just my 2 cents..correct me if i am wrong.



the new celica isn't RWD or AWD. that's what the JDM look for. look at those examples you listed. ALL are either AWD or RWD.

and your theory doesn't cut it, Honda with their FWD cars, are no where near as popular over there as they are here

<FONT COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Celica RZ on November 09, 2001 at 03:59 PM</font>

[yakkosmurf]

Toyota not making the current Celica as good as the previous in Japan may have something to do with the lack of aftermarket support. But I think there is more to it.

[Kry]

Originally posted by vvtlikick:

I don't think the Celica is just a "Looks Fast" car, it handles and brakes as good as anything for the price, and has impressive straight-line acceleration.


take the other japanese super car (RX-7, Supra, Siliva, GT-R skyline) to compare our celica.. it's just too slow..
and u can get those supercar used for pretty cheap in japan.


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"The feeling you get from a good drifting is euphoric, almost spiritual. The car and you as one."
Night Speed (http://www.joe.chiang.com/tns/)

[Kry]

Originally posted by Celica RZ:
the new celica isn't RWD or AWD. that's what the JDM look for. look at those examples you listed. ALL are either AWD or RWD.

and your theory doesn't cut it, Honda with their FWD cars, are no where near as popular over there as they are here

<FONT COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Celica RZ on November 09, 2001 at 03:59 PM</font>

U have to understand another thing.. the DRIFTING is very big in japan, now...that's why AWD and FWD are poluar. U can not do a good drifting with a Front wheel drive car because the ebrake will slow the FF drifting car down..
u can only do drifting to the extreme with AWD and RWD car.. that's why those car are popular, too.
i am not complaining about honda RSX having turbo.
Because honda they do make good engines, but toyota is big in japan..

my theory is just our new celica is not as powerful as previous one might be one of the reason. and maybe TRD is the factor, too.

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"The feeling you get from a good drifting is euphoric, almost spiritual. The car and you as one."
Night Speed (http://www.joe.chiang.com/tns/)

[X-EVIL-X]

Originally posted by Kry:
U have to understand another thing.. the DRIFTING is very big in japan, now...that's why AWD and FWD are poluar. U can not do a good drifting with a Front wheel drive car because the ebrake will slow the FF drifting car down..
u can only do drifting to the extreme with AWD and RWD car.. that's why those car are popular, too.
i am not complaining about honda RSX having turbo.
Because honda they do make good engines, but toyota is big in japan..

my theory is just our new celica is not as powerful as previous one might be one of the reason. and maybe TRD is the factor, too.




a front wheel drive car can drift
Just go out and steal some trays and put them under your back wheels, then pull the e-brake.
you'll slide all over the place

as for our engines not having enough power, how much did our older model cars weigh?
the new celica weighs very light but i dont know anything about the older ones.
weight plays a huge factor

[Kry]

Originally posted by X-EVIL-X:

a front wheel drive car can drift
Just go out and steal some trays and put them under your back wheels, then pull the e-brake.
you'll slide all over the place



i didn't say front wheel drive car can't drift.. but it can't do extreme drifts.. because when u pull the ebrake.. the front wheel car will slow down and lose power, but RWD AWD car can drift and still acclerating. can slide the car longer and further..



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"The feeling you get from a good drifting is euphoric, almost spiritual. The car and you as one."
Night Speed (http://www.joe.chiang.com/tns/)

[Celica RZ]

It's just like that Toda email we recieved explained. They still race the 4age (less power than the 2zzge) and the 3sgte a lot in Japan. They have dedicated race teams that have spent thousands of dollars on these engines. They're gonna keep competing with these engines until they stop being competitive, then they'll move onto the next "hot" engine. hopefully that'll be ours...

[yakkosmurf]

The 4A-GE and 3S-GTE are much stronger engines than the 2ZZ-GE. They are both far better for racing and will remain so. The block strength and drivetrain layout are superior.

[Supralicious]

Originally posted by yakkosmurf:
The 4A-GE and 3S-GTE are much stronger engines than the 2ZZ-GE. They are both far better for racing and will remain so. The block strength and drivetrain layout are superior.

C'mon Yakko, don't you ever have anything good to say about the Celica?

[Unity112]

Yakkosmurf, again I will have to disagree with you. There is no proof that those engines can withstand more things than the 2ZZ. If you do have proof, I would like to see it. The 3S-GTE and the 4AG are proven platforms so they won't switch it (to a 2zz) just like that. Just like the B series motors are more dominant than the H series Honda motors.

There are plenty of H22's out here that prove that they are worthy of more attention than what they get over in Japan. Does that make the H22 less competent? No... If the Japanese race teams have more experience and knowledge of a motor and its capabilities, and it is doing wonders for them, what would make them want to venture off and mess around with something that hasn't been proven???

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Unity

00 Spectra Blue GT-S

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[Celica RZ]

I really doubt that you know this for a fact. perhaps the 3sgte (hey iron block whaddya expect?) but the 4age as well? that's yet to be proven.

your claims are getting more and more ridiculous by the day.

[yakkosmurf]

I can't comment on the H versus B series Honda engines. I've never looked much into Honda engines. I've been more of a follower of Toyota engines. I've seen the bare blocks and internals of the 4A-GE, 3S-GTE, and 2ZZ-GE. Seeing the differences in thicknesses of parts, and knowing the material properties of the parts, you can make some easy determinations about the strength of each system. It's not hard to run some simple material strength numbers.

You do have make a few assumptions (that are pretty valid) such as force vectors for all three engines should be roughly the same. They are all 4 cyl engines with similar design layouts (all are inline).

My experience with all three engines show that the 2ZZ is pretty fragile. My experience backs up my numbers. I'm not saying it's definitive.

[Brett]

Originally posted by yakkosmurf:
I can't comment on the H versus B series Honda engines. I've never looked much into Honda engines. I've been more of a follower of Toyota engines. I've seen the bare blocks and internals of the 4A-GE, 3S-GTE, and 2ZZ-GE. Seeing the differences in thicknesses of parts, and knowing the material properties of the parts, you can make some easy determinations about the strength of each system. It's not hard to run some simple material strength numbers.

You do have make a few assumptions (that are pretty valid) such as force vectors for all three engines should be roughly the same. They are all 4 cyl engines with similar design layouts (all are inline).

My experience with all three engines show that the 2ZZ is pretty fragile. My experience backs up my numbers. I'm not saying it's definitive.

It might be a stronger material, but what about structure? I dont know much about engines. But at least can you come up with a better variable then just engine materials? I mean sure enough a stronger material can initially handle more stress, but with a good design cant the 2ZZ not be getting as much stess? And has the full potiential of the engine been tested? I mean we can at least take a look at Rado's 800hp plus Celica? thats alot of potiential right there. I understand its all Drag. But its still built on the 2ZZ.

With the right aftermarket the 2ZZ should be able to be modified just as well and durable as the 3S-GTE in my opinion. Im sure in time it will get its glory.

(Feel free to correct me if I am wrong
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