What does 'Dealer invoice' really means?

[ST]

I agreed to buy the 2002 GTS(6 speed) at $500 over Invoice. The invoice I got from Internet sites is $19398 (not include option). The car dealer told me that is not the invoice. Their invoice is $19398 + Advertisement and some other junks.
Am I right or are they pulling my legs?

[MarkyMark]

if you dont get the price you want....then f*ck it, walk away...dont worry, he'll call you back in a few days to grovel...at least that's what happened to me.

well advertisement and what not is stuff they always add over invoice..invoice means exactly what they paid for the car which is prolly 19,300.. but they have other $$ into it as well..

[z6joker9]

Invoice is what they paid for the car, from toyota... they may add advertisement costs and whatnot also.... you hear of people getting a car for 100 or 500 over invoice, yet the dealership still pays it's salesmen more than that for the sale. how would they make money? well, they get a kickback from toyota, lets say they sale 200 cars that year, toyota may give them say $3000 per car sold... if they sold less than that then they wont get 3000 per car, maybe 2500 or something... you get the idea....

[Drew]

Be carefull with those internet prices. Toyota invoice prices listed on the internet are never right. What a dealer actually pays Toyota for a car, tobe quite honest, varies daily. A Celica with "X" equipment could cost $19,300 on Monday but the same car could cost $19,350 on Friday...that's just the way they work. Advertisement and all that crap is already in that $19,XXX number you have (I believe). What you sould do is ask to see the invoice. I'm yet to see a Toyota dealer that will not show a customer a factory invoice. It's a 2 page computer printout. It shows the equipment, destination, advertisement, etc...if they refuse to give that to you...they're shady...go to another dealership.

[xav3x]

Yep Drew is right. I looked online and the price the dealer invoice price was different.. it was about 200 dollar more.. Close enough.. so i'd totally agree with drew..

I got my 2001 Celica GT-S in Oct 00 [almost first shipment]
for 22,005 out the door..

it was 300 dollar above invoice..

Car had:
Spoiler, 16" factory rims, and thats it.. if i can remember...

no abs, no leather, no moonroof, no side airbag

i didn't even want the spoiler.. [cuz i wanted aftermarket] oh well.. just wanted a light car.. :D

lucky for me, i found this baby. no other dealer had a white GT-S and definitely not a 2001 at the time.. i went to 4-5 different dealers looking for it. and to find a stripped one was unimaginative. :D

[ST]

How can we be sure that the their invoice 'printout' is legit? They can just easily doctored the information and print it out for you. Is it illegal for them to doctor it? They showed me the printout, but i didn' t believe. I have learned not to believe ANYTHING they say - that way, I won't get screwed as bad. ;)

[cam_n_scott]

Dealers also recieve incentives to buy certain types of cars from the manufacturer. There is also a period (90 days in most cases, I believe) that the dealer is exempt from making payments on the car (dont forget that the dealer is financing the car from the manufacturer for it to sit on the lot). So if the dealer can sell the car within 90 days of its arrival its a bonus to them.

Basically, you will never know how much the dealer ACTUALLY paid for the car. You can find manufacturer invoice prices, but there is a good chance that the dealer did not actually pay that price (especially on high-volume cars such as the Camry, which the dealer will more or less "buy in bulk").

So look up the invoice prices etc, but dont use those numbers as an absolute guide. Like MarkyMark said, walk away for a week and see if they call you. Lots of times they will, just because they think you have lost interest.

[Drew]

Originally posted by ST
How can we be sure that the their invoice 'printout' is legit? They can just easily doctored the information and print it out for you. Is it illegal for them to doctor it? They showed me the printout, but i didn' t believe. I have learned not to believe ANYTHING they say - that way, I won't get screwed as bad. ;)

The printout the show you is directly from Toyota's Central Database...there is no way to doctor this document. They log onto it from terminals within the dealership, type in the VIN, and get the printout. If you live on the East Coast, these documents are kept at Central Atlantic Toyota in Maryland...don't know where the rest of the country get's their stuff from.

[Loves2Rev]

From what I have heard, sometimes a dealers is paid to upkeep the cars on their lot. It might have been a mix-up with the thing that Cam_n_Scott said or maybe it works differently in different places. But my friends was pretty sure when he bought his outback (why, why not a WRX, oh well.......) he was sure they got 3k for upkeeping it so if they sold it right when they got it, free money for them.

I trust him, he's a really smart guy and he did research it for like 2 months everyday at work. You can use this to your advantage. The earlier you buy a new car off a lot the more of an incentive the dealer gets.

Oh, and as always if you go through a credit union or "fleet" then you will get it a lot cheaper.

[dragonfrog]

i had this same question when i first bought our second celica. now, it doesn't seem like such a bad idea. here's what happened to us. they gave us the printout and sold the car to us for cost. it was the last 2001 celica on the lot. we paid about $20,400 for it. that's with the action package. they did have the advertisement fee on the sheet for us, but they waived that too. (something like $100 which is alotted to advertising the vehicle.) that's a separate cost that's legit by toyota. then there's a whole list of fees by the state that every dealership is required to add on there. ours was about $100.

all these fees are really odd, but they seem to be legit and required by law and toyota. u could probably get them to waive the ad fee since they'll get a kickback of $2,000 - $3,000. every dealership has a different kickback amount for a specific type of car. for example, a camry (a popular seller) may have a smaller kickback then a celica. also, ford's may be smaller than say toyota's.

[iMouseGTS]

Hey Drew or anyone that knows..

Is it true that you don't have to pay for that destination charge they tack on at the end of the deal? That just are just trying to jack up the price...

[Drew]

Sure, you don't have to pay destination...but you have to go to Japan and pick the car up yourself. So, in other words, destination is a "true" charge...how else is the vehicle going to get to the dealership? Dealerships will not budge on this...some may say they will waive it or something but they'll charge you $450 somewhere else without you realizing it to make up for the "slashed destination costs."

[Franco]

I used to sell Toyotas. Going in there half-cocked with a printed invoice can get you screwed. As a consumer, you have a right to a copy of that car's invoice. Of course, they won't tell you that. BTW, salesmen that sell cars @ invoice prices only make $50 around here. If you want to learn how to buy a car, learn how to sell one. Salesguys must depend on each and every sale in order for them to make a living. Don't let them push you into a quick decision. GO in there informed and confident. Don't smile. Don't make small-talk. Research the car you want to purchase and when you are ready to go and get it, be direct. Don't buy this, "Let me go talk to my manager" ****. Be prepared to walk away. Beleiev me, they want to sell you a car. Also, the finance guy will try to screw you also. Finance rates are as negotiable as the sticker price.

PS The invoice isn't the "true" price

[po9i]

they have a real invoice and the one they show customers, try and get them to say "DEAD Cost" then you will be getting the car what the paid for it, also add the options they put in, i just knocked off $5000 of the highlander that my parents bought, cuz he thought he didn't know that i knew what dead cost is and i got him to say that we were getting it at dead cost, they are legally bound to sell you the car at the price they bought it if they say it is dead cost

[Chiznarles]

i don't think dealers are legally bound to sell you anything.. have you heard of the phrase "we have a right to refuse service to anyone"? I think if they don't think its a good sell, they won't sell ..

[po9i]

no, i am 100% sure they have to sell it to you if they say you are getting it dead cost, it's a verbal contract, if they say you are getting it at dead cost, you are getting what they paid for it it is in some law, i just studied it econ class