ENGINE IS TOAST?? Pls HELP ASAP~!~

[kireisceli]

Ok.. please someone help me...

Husband and I took the car out just now becuase we put some new pedals in. Took my car up almost to redline on every gear up to 4th gear... car is running great. Come to light, when it turns green I go.... running it up close to redline on 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and when I get to fourth, I hear a noise...

The noise is like something is flapping around, slapping around in the engine. Only when I hit the throttle. Pull off the road... don't know what to do.

Have to get home... get back on road... major clicking clanking noise coming from the engine as I press the throttle. At this point I'm freaking out.

Get to the light before my house. The car dies, CEL goes on. Start the car and rev and the noise gets louder.. start hearing more grinding/clicking/fwapping noise.

Have to get home... by the time I'm in the apt. complex my whole engine is sputtering and making an awful noise even when I'm not pressing the throttle... . Like grinding... and like something is just broken and knocking all inside the engine... The noise is comparable to when my friend blew a rod in her Lumina from not putting oil in the car. Husband checked oil and see's there are particals on the dip stick..

PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!! What happened? I didn't mis shift.. I have a GT and I shifted fine through the gears!

:wtc: :wtc:

[cam_n_scott]

Sounds like the rod bearing failure issue that has been popping up of late. Mine went last week, car is still in the shop. ArchangelX had his happen at the same time. Good news is that so far I havent heard of anybody that DIDN'T get it fixed under warantee. The reason why this is happening seems to still be up in the air at this point. Dont drive on it anymore, just get it towed to the dealer... and good luck! :)

[ArchangelX]

Yepolas..

Rod bearing. That sounds exactly like it. Don't worry, it'll be no problem for warranty work. I get my car back next week. :D

You'll get a whole new short block and all the internals..so basically almost a brand new engine.

It'll take prolly about 3 weeks to get it done. This is interesting though...more ammo for me at least when I got to talk to the dealership again.

ME: "Did you know that alotta people's rod bearings have been going out?" :wtc:

[kireisceli]

FACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you for the replies... did you have to drive your car after you first started hearing the noise? I'm worried about what other damage might have been caused trying to drive the bitch home.

Also.. I JUST hit 16,000 miles.. I don't drive my car hard very often.. WTF! I keep it in perfect maintance condition... wtf did this happen? GRRRRR

What mods (if any) did you have on your car when you got towed to Toyota. I've already been threatened at Toyota (when my starter when out at 3k miles :rolleyes:) that my CAI and exhaust would void my warrenty.... I'm scared that they are not going to fix my car!! I'm trying to get someone to help pull my AFC out at least before I take it in...

[Baldhead_J]

Rod bearing for sure. That is exactly what happened to my car. The CAI and Exhaust should be fine. Your dealer has to prove your mods caused the failure. If they are being pricks, take it to another dealer (unless you want to fight it out). Don't sweat it too hard I went through this in April and was completely covered.

[kireisceli]

God, I'm so pissed off.. now that I'm searching for posts I see this is happening A LOT... I'm trying to stay calm but I don't even want to deal with Toyota tomorrow.. :mad: I know they are going to give me hell, they did last time for the stupid starter...

*sigh*...

[Baldhead_J]

Chill kiddo. You'll be fine. Sweat not the things over which ou have no control. Look to the husband for a good roll in the hay. it will clear your mind and focus you for the tasking of tomorrow.

-Baldhead book of proverbs #423

[Hubs]

STAND UP TO THOSE DAMN CROOKED DEALERSHIPS!!!!

[cam_n_scott]

I drove mine about a half mile the rest of the way back to my apartment. Probably should have just pulled off but I dont have a cellphone or anything etc etc. I've got a CAI, and so do most of the other people that this happened to. To be honest, I have not heard "official" word that they are covering it under waranty... however he did say that the loaner I got was covered. I was worried at first also, however after reading all I've read in the past couple weeks I dont think it will be an issue.

[kireisceli]

Ok, thanks... I drove it about a half mile +/- too.. hmm, I hope a loaner is covered..

Thanks everyone for easing my mind... a bit..

[Camry2000]

Wow! They're dropping like flies. Definitely take the S-AFC off before taking it to the dealer. Good luck.

[wickedpete]

The Toyota I took mine too says the car has to be in for more than one day to get a paid loaner. i.e. you might want to secure a ride for tommorrow and they will get you a rental on the second day.

P.S. they took over a month to fix mine

[Rank1]

i don't understand why you have to use a warranty when a car has just 16,000miles on it. this is ridiculous. the more i read on these boards, the more i see poeple with 2002/2001 celicas having all these engine/transmission problems.

is there something wrong with these celicas ??

i'm planning to buy 2003 model, and if i'm gonna have any problem with it @ 16,000miles, i'm going to be really pissed off.

if people are starting to have these problems now, what will happen when my celica's milage hits 70,000 miles ??

what will happen when you're out of warranty ?

[ArchangelX]

The S-AFC shouldn't be a problem unless they can determine it was a factor.

I left my S-AFC on and it didn't even qet questioned. In fact...I drove the car a pretty good ways before getting it towed.

These are the mods the car had on it when it went to the dealer:

S-AFC
Injen CAI with N20 inlet nozzle still installed.
B&M SS
TRD Sport Springs
Rear seats removed with TRD rear strut bar installed
Greddy A/F guage with EGT sensor

So..I don't think she'll have a problem. They even checked my ECU's history and still came up with the same conclusion...rod bearing just went.

So G'luck..and my rental car and Amtrak ticket are covered under the warranty, so don't worry..it'll be fixed before you know it.

[ArchangelX]

This number is a small amount. It only seems like a large majority...but compared to the amount of Celicas sold..this is a drop in the bucket.

Also...don't think that just because a rod bearing blew out, that it's not a mis-shift problems. You can either bend valves or blow your rod bearings from what the mechanic told me.

[kireisceli]

Originally posted by Camry2000
Wow! They're dropping like flies. Definitely take the S-AFC off before taking it to the dealer. Good luck.

Yeah, but I can't find anyone to help me.. damn it!!!!!!!!! The guy who put it in for me moved to Vegas a few days ago I just found out and I live too far north for the norcal people to help.

Oh fukking well... :(

[DGS]

Rethinking my 2003 GT-S purchase decision very carefully now. This is not normal. These problems are popping up for people who take care of their cars, and don't mis-shift. These engines should be built to handle this kind of stress, problems this serious at the 25K mark and below is wack! I used and abused my Prelude for 5 years, put over 100K miles on the bitch and never had a single problem.

Damn man, I really, really, don't want to go with the RSX Type S, but I need a high revving car again, and that is the only competition out there for the Celica.

Someone said this is only a small percentage of people experiencing this problem, but the fact is, how many other people may be having the same problem who don't even know about this board? Not everyone is a web junkie. Really, this sh!t shouldn't be happening at all to such a new engine, especially not one built for stress.

[larryd]

wow memories.. on the engine I rebuilt for my Celica it spun a rod bearing.. i was the 1st one I knew that it happened to and everyone blamed me for my mechanical work.. now its popping up all around.. cant say im suprised..

results of a spun rod bearing when you try to drive it to long, the the piston hits your valves and eats your cylinder head, then shatters into a billion little pieces and the rod bends to hell and from the constant slapping on the cylinder wall make end up like this..

[Vroom_Vroom]

OWN3D!!!

[Rank1]

good point DGS. i am also reconsidering my purchase of 2003 model. these cars shouldn't have any problems within the first (lets say) 50,000 miles. at least, you wouldn't expect any problems..

does anybody have a 2000/2001 celica (7th gen) with like 60,000 miles on it ???

i come from Europe. and everyone in Europe drives stick.
i just can't get over it, that people are having engine/trans problems with practically new celicas.

how long do these engines/ transmissions suppose to last ?
(assuming you're a good driver)

i think we need more input from people on these "engine" issues.

like DGS said, not everyone has access to internet. not a lot of people visit these websites.

[Hubs]

yea that was an excellent point DGS, these newer celicas YOU would think should at leats be getting 50,000 miles on it before having any type of mechanical issues, just from these forums there is 3 or 4 people that have had this problem not a good thing.

[kireisceli]

Originally posted by Hubs
yea that was an excellent point DGS, these newer celicas YOU would think should at leats be getting 50,000 miles on it before having any type of mechanical issues, just from these forums there is 3 or 4 people that have had this problem not a good thing.

Seems like a lot more than 3-4... I did a search on posts related to this problem (not misshifts)... :(

[kocheroni]

check your pm's

[kocheroni]

it took them 4 days I think to repair mine because some awesome people in NJ helped me bring it to one of their friends, (at the second dealership) I talked about in the pm, and they were great to me. They did everything fast and it's really good now.

[DGS]

Toyota is absolutely known for having a perfect reliability rating. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the new Celica was Toyota's first attempt at a really high revving engine so they could be competition for the Acura/Honda duo. It's obvious they did an amazing job, but possibly something in the engineering/manufacturing process was overlooked, and now that people are starting to accumulate miles on their cars the problem is becoming apparent. I know that Acura released the current RSX in Japan 2 years before they ever brought it to the states, and it was still badged as an Integra (I believe that hasn't changed either, they don't call it the RSX over there). The car was essentially test marketed in Japan before it ever came here. I wonder if Toyota did something similar with the new Celica, or if we were the first to get it?

I'm hoping more people speak up, especially those on this board with higher milage and who drive their cars aggressively. I think everyone considering purchasing the 2003, is doing so because they want a car that will last a long time, while being driven hard. I used to hit vtec in my Prelude everyday, I never had any worries. I would expect the same from the Celica. No one should need to have their engine re-built with so few miles, I don't care if it's covered by warrenty or not.

[Camry2000]

Originally posted by kireisceli


Yeah, but I can't find anyone to help me.. damn it!!!!!!!!! The guy who put it in for me moved to Vegas a few days ago I just found out and I live too far north for the norcal people to help.

Oh fukking well... :(

It is really wasy to disconnect the S-AFC. My friend and I did the install on Static's Celica.

[kireisceli]

Yeah, I'm sure it's not too hard.. I called my friend who put it in, he said to just leave it as they are going to see the spliced wire anyway and I'd have to explain that.

[Hubs]

Yeah, is there anyone out there thats got high mileage and has had no problems with there car?

[Chris25NJ]

48K miles, no probs yet, keeping my fingers crossed.....if something is gonna happen better before 55K then after......

[DGS]

Originally posted by Hubs
Yeah, is there anyone out there thats got high mileage and has had no problems with there car?

Hey Hubs and Rank1, maybe we should start a new thread asking about milage and engine problems if any. I'm curious to see how many other people have high milage like Chris25NJ and drive their cars aggressively. Toyota dealership told me the 2003's will be on the lot second week of September, don't have a lot of time to make a decision (I'm an impacient bastard).

kireisceli, man I feel for ya. Nasty you had such a serious problem with so few miles, especially because it sounds like you know what you're doing and how to take care of your car. My girlfriend owns a 2000 Ford Focus (she bought it before I met her, or I never would have let her get that POS), and she doesn't know anything about cars. I've already had to take that thing in for rear wheel bearing recall, as well as a vacum hose leak. I freaking hate the car. There have already been 7 serious recalls for the Focus, one them being that the engine just catches on fire/stalls while you're driving highway speeds. Freaking Fords, I hate them.

Good luck getting your car fixed.

[Blue Bomber]

56k and going strong. Though with my recent luck, my engine will explode at 60000.1 miles. :o

[ArchangelX]

Hmm.

I'd have to say....that even though my engine went...it really doesn't bother me.

I think I've abused it enough in the past 2 1/2 years, that if it went..it probably IS my fault.

5,000+RPM launches, everyday revlimiter bouncing, 50+ shots of nitrous, and a very heavy accelerator pedal do add up I think.

I learned how to drive on the car, as well as my wife. I had to replace my clutch at 20,000 simply cuz I sucked, and also because of the all the clutch-feathering. Plus, learning how to do burnouts..doh!

I've been in a 35mph rear-end wreck with it by some lady in a Jeep Cherokee that had my entire rear hatchback replaced.

I've been to the track (drag and road) numerous amount of times, and really flogged the crap outta it on a daily basis.

I think everyone can tell how proud I am of my car. I love it, and if breaks..welps, I really can't say that I didn't have a hand in it. Either way, if I had to do it all again...I'd buy my Celica in a heartbeat.

The people I've met, the things I've done, all because of that little car. Man....I think the price tag was worth it, ya know?

[DGS]

Originally posted by ArchangelX
Hmm.

I'd have to say....that even though my engine went...it really doesn't bother me.

I think I've abused it enough in the past 2 1/2 years, that if it went..it probably IS my fault.

5,000+RPM launches, everyday revlimiter bouncing, 50+ shots of nitrous, and a very heavy accelerator pedal do add up I think.

I learned how to drive on the car, as well as my wife. I had to replace my clutch at 20,000 simply cuz I sucked, and also because of the all the clutch-feathering.

I've been in a 35mph rear-end wreck with it by some lady in a Jeep Cherokee that had my entire rear hatchback replaced.

I've been to the track (drag and road) numerous amount of times, and really flogged the crap outta it on a daily basis.

I think everyone can tell how proud I am of my car. I love it, and if breaks..welps, I really can't say that I didn't have a hand in it. Either way, if I had to do it all again...I'd buy my Celica in a heartbeat.

The people I've met, the things I've done, all because of that little car. Man....I think the price tag was worth it, ya know?

Man I'm gonna cry, that was a beautiful story...

[Turbonator]

Man after reading all these engine failures, transmission failures, rev limiter bugs, list goes on and on. I am sure as hell not gonna buy one anymore. This was going to be my first new car and I wanted it to last at least 120K miles but at the rate of engine blowing up at 16K miles, I don't think it will ever make it! My Acura Integra had gone through so much, 2 years of street racing, double clutching, feathering, hard shifts you name it. It has gone through a DRAG GEN III turbo kit running 13psi putting out 270+HP at the wheels on stock internals for almost a year the turbo blew a seal and and died before the engine did. My integra spent all of it's life from 30K miles to 90K miles at redline, I don't recall driving it ever without hitting VTEC once or twice. It never broke, nada, nothing! My next car is gonna be an IS300 with a proven 2JZ, see yah all later. Good bye and good luck with these POS 2ZZ engines!! If you lift, they will BREAK!!

[kireisceli]

ArchangelX

ditto to that :)

[LaW]

Turbonator, you just made an very large asumption.....

[ArchangelX]

:wtf: :stupid:

[PoweredbyRICE]

:werd: same thing happened to me..im calling toyota corp tomorrow to discuss the issue since my local one wont even take a look at it! :bang:

[00CericaRuss]

damn anna, that sucks! I hope you get it fixed soon, and free

[larryd]

Originally posted by kireisceli
Yeah, I'm sure it's not too hard.. I called my friend who put it in, he said to just leave it as they are going to see the spliced wire anyway and I'd have to explain that.

yeah i was thinking the same.. ive known one to many people that have gotten thier warranty service denied becuz of the AFC.. damned little piggy back.. if I ever install one again Ill find some way to make it not possible to have known it was ever in the car :)

[Hubs]

This rod bearing problem...is this an issue that happens to a lot of cars?(not just celica's) And what is the main problem that causes the rod bearing to fail?
Im lookin to buy a 03 gts and i just wanna see if this is a problem that is occuring repetitively to celica owners that may not even beat on there car.
Thanks Mike

[celica gte racing]

Well the RSX and Integra Type-R in japan is vastly different in that the Japan spec has superior suspension settings, brakes, engine and so forth.

What I dont understand is the fact that Only American celica boards have so many reliability complaints. i visit japanese and european boards but misshifts and engine failure are extremely rare. Perhaps its ok to drive hard but lets just say you cannot abuse it by driving it carelessly. I love the celica and Ive had only a few problems with it which were not even the cars fault as the dealer overlooked something. Believe me, I drive it hard, very KM of it.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by kireisceli


Also.. I JUST hit 16,000 miles.. I don't drive my car hard very often.. WTF! I keep it in perfect maintance condition... wtf did this happen? GRRRRR

What mods (if any) did you have on your car when you got towed to Toyota. I've already been threatened at Toyota (when my starter when out at 3k miles :rolleyes:) that my CAI and exhaust would void my warrenty.... I'm scared that they are not going to fix my car!! I'm trying to get someone to help pull my AFC out at least before I take it in...
The failure doesn't seem to be affected by lack of maintenance. The nature of the defect is such that you can't prevent it. Driving the car hard only makes the problem show itself more quickly. Good thing for it to happen before the warranty runs out.

I would remove the S-AFC just to be safe. If anything, you don't want them to mess it up when they replace the engine and have to reconnect all the wires. Good luck.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by larryd
wow memories.. on the engine I rebuilt for my Celica it spun a rod bearing.. i was the 1st one I knew that it happened to and everyone blamed me for my mechanical work.. now its popping up all around.. cant say im suprised..

Why do people flame me for saying that and not you? :D

[yakkosmurf]

For those of you keeping track...is this the first GT we've seen with the problem? Every other instance I can recall was a GTS. If so, there might be a bigger problem than we first thought. Are the MR2 Spyders seeing the same problem? I haven't heard of any.

[WillyK]

Originally posted by yakkosmurf
For those of you keeping track...is this the first GT we've seen with the problem? Every other instance I can recall was a GTS. If so, there might be a bigger problem than we first thought. Are the MR2 Spyders seeing the same problem? I haven't heard of any.

Exactly what I was thinking. I am fairly certain this is the first GT to have this problem.

[Camry2000]

Yakko was right. :)

[bwiechert]

Originally posted by Hubs
Yeah, is there anyone out there thats got high mileage and has had no problems with there car?

I have 70,000 miles and I drive my car hard pretty often. So far so good, just hope it stays that way.

[ringthree]

Originally posted by DGS
Toyota is absolutely known for having a perfect reliability rating. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the new Celica was Toyota's first attempt at a really high revving engine so they could be competition for the Acura/Honda duo.

I'm pretty sure this is not true, several different versions of the 3s were high revers.

Originally posted by DGS
I know that Acura released the current RSX in Japan 2 years before they ever brought it to the states, and it was still badged as an Integra (I believe that hasn't changed either, they don't call it the RSX over there). The car was essentially test marketed in Japan before it ever came here. I wonder if Toyota did something similar with the new Celica, or if we were the first to get it?

This is also not true the Integra/RSX was a new model in Japan and the US in 2003.

Originally posted by DGS
I'm hoping more people speak up, especially those on this board with higher milage and who drive their cars aggressively. I think everyone considering purchasing the 2003, is doing so because they want a car that will last a long time, while being driven hard. I used to hit vtec in my Prelude everyday, I never had any worries. I would expect the same from the Celica. No one should need to have their engine re-built with so few miles, I don't care if it's covered by warrenty or not.

I highly doubt any 2002 or 2003 will have this problem (I dont even know if any 2001's have had this problem). Manufacturers basicly recheck everything when a new year comes out and they even change everything during the year.

[ringthree]

For people that have blown engines because of rod bearings, what year was your car?

I'm suspecting that this might be something similar to the M3 problem where car built during a certain time might be having problems. Just a guess.

[basic]

this is not the first gt i know of one in nj that had this happen like 3 months ago. they told him that he sucked up water and he had his insurance cover it.

his was also a 2001 gt

[kireisceli]

Mine is a 2001

[cam_n_scott]

I believe kocheroni has a GT if I remember correctly. Mine is a 2000 GTS... I just hope that they figured it out because I dont want crappy bearings replaced with more crappy bearings.

[yakkosmurf]

One other thing to keep in mind is why bearings fail. One of the leading causes of bearing failure is contamination. The problem may not be in the quality of the bearing itself. It may be a problem with the assembly. This could be why some people see failures and some don't. Are all Celicas assembled at the same plant?

[Jusone36]

i hope everything flows well kiddo..

[DGS]

Originally posted by ringthree


I'm pretty sure this is not true, several different versions of the 3s were high revers.



This is also not true the Integra/RSX was a new model in Japan and the US in 2003.



I highly doubt any 2002 or 2003 will have this problem (I dont even know if any 2001's have had this problem). Manufacturers basicly recheck everything when a new year comes out and they even change everything during the year.

Thanks for all of the corrections.

[cam_n_scott]

Yakko, I believe all Celicas are made at the same plant. I remember taking note of it when I bought mine because the plant at which they are assembled is in Japan. (This was true in 2000 anyway)

[Hubs]

we all know that the 2002 are new and people might not yet have high miles on theres but has anyone with a 2002 had this problem? Maybe this was an issue with the 2000 and 2001 celicas, perhaps they have solved this bearing problem.

[kocheroni]

Originally posted by yakkosmurf
For those of you keeping track...is this the first GT we've seen with the problem? Every other instance I can recall was a GTS. If so, there might be a bigger problem than we first thought. Are the MR2 Spyders seeing the same problem? I haven't heard of any.

you missed my post. This happened to me, exact same thing, exact same car. I only had a CAI. I sent her a long PM explaining everything that happened and was fixed. I didn't post it on here, but no, it's not the first car to have this happen to. I think there were a couple others before me and now she's after me. i drive my car hard, but not carelessly.

[yakkosmurf]

Sorry, I missed that.

Ok, so now we've established the problem is in the GT model as well, but so far, not as common. What's the difference in internals on the two engines? Is the part number on the bearings the same? The GT engine is rated to rev at lower speeds. This is usually a function of the valve train, but if the bearings are the same, and they are failing in the GT rev range, then it would stand to reason they'd fail more often in the GTS application.

[kocheroni]

I'm not sure if they are the same or not, but regardless, I'm pretty sure that it might arise more. The question is, if my car was fixed, how do I know this won't happen again. I'm assuming it is a flaw w/ in a couple of cars. Don't forget mass manufacturing can be problamatic sometimes. Regardless, I hope this doesn't pop up alot.

[kireisceli]

kocheroni
and other GT owners

Can you please check your owners manual and see if Toyota said anything about using synthetic oil? mine is in my car @ the local dealership.

If so...can you guys tell me when we can start using syn? I heard someone said we are not suppose to use syn oil until after 20,000?? I just need to make sure Toyota didn't say anything against using syn oil in the owners manual.

Thank you all for your replies

[kocheroni]

i had synthetic in mine, it happened at like 11,070 I think. They won't say anything. I actually had synthetic in since about 4000.

[kireisceli]

kocheroni

Thank you. :)

Since a engine builder from another place told my husband today that syn oil shouldn't be used until after 20k miles. He said not to do it because it ensure proper engine break-in, and the engine will last longer that way. I wasn't quite sure if it's fine to start using syn oil as my first oil change. Just needed to make sure in case Toyota asks.

[Raymund]

Remember spun bearings are not isolated with the 2ZZ engine. I've personaly seen other engines with the same problem. Just last week a stock 00 Type-R spun a bearing at Willow Springs. I also know someone who paid big $$ to have his B18C5 (type-r motor) built by JUNE. He had the whole short block shipped to Japan only to blow it soon after. It also threw a Rod. My point, every make of engine has spun a bearing and most of the time its an isolated case.

[Raymund]

Originally posted by kireisceli
kocheroni

Thank you. :)

Since a engine builder from another place told my husband today that syn oil shouldn't be used until after 20k miles. He said not to do it because it ensure proper engine break-in, and the engine will last longer that way. I wasn't quite sure if it's fine to start using syn oil as my first oil change. Just needed to make sure in case Toyota asks.

That is strictly an oppinion and nothing more. There has been no proven test done that will insure proper break-in of an engine. I have used sythetic after 2k miles with no problems.

Facts of pro and cons of conventional (mineral) vs synthetic oil.

Conventional Oil:
Pros:
1Low Cost
2Readily available
3Good lubrication characteristics under all normal driving conditions
Cons:
1Will break down in continuous high temp situations like racing
2Can leave more contaminants in the motor if oil change intervals are too long
3Very thick in cold weather

Sythetic Oil:
Pros
1Excellent resistance to breakdown under high temp stress conditions like racing
2Fewer contaminants if oil change interval is extended
3Pours easily and lubricates well in extreme cold
Cons:
1High cost compared to conventional oils
2In a car that already has an oil leak, synthetics can make the leak much worse due to all molecules being exactly the same size

[Calsoldier]

Off topic, but I saw your car, you and another guy, guessing it was your husband, at Sears Point Raceway a couple weeks back. You're running dual exhausts on your car right? Your car was pretty hooked up. Btw, what kit is that? Looks interesting...

Btw, good luck getting it fixed.

[dfess1]

Ok, first of all, Hubs, Rank1, DGS, and any others, you're a moron if you chose another car simply because of these issues with the car. Remember this is the internet. And on this board (which MIGHT make up 1% of the population that bought this car), most are into modding it and racing it. ANY car that is continously beat on will have something break that much earlier. I don't care what car you look at, the more stress you give the engine, the quicker something will go wrong.

And again, remember this is a brand new engine. It takes a year or two to work the kinks out. It's not a honda, and just a reiteration of the previous block, it's all BRAND NEW. The amount of money involved for a retooling of the assembly line because of a problem that shows up in .005% of the cars, is not worth it. That's what a bean counter is for.

I had 35k miles on my celi before I lost it (it's a long story, let's say an act of god, not a mechanical failure). The car (aside from 2000's and early run 2001's) should be ok as long as you take care of it. But if you beat on it, expect stuff to break. Like ArchangelX said, he has fun with the car, and puts it through it's paces. But when something breaks, how can he blame anyone but himself. And I applaud him for that, because most people won't take that responsibility. This car is NOT designed to be a dedicated track car, both strip or road. And think about it, do you take care of your car as much as say the professional's take care of their cars? I don't care which type of racing you are talking about, after every race, the pro's TEAR down the blocks, and replace parts as needed. They realize they are putting high amounts of stress on the engines, and things are going to break. So just suck it up when something goes wrong, 9 times out of 10, it's probably gonna be your fault (read: MIS SHIFT) if you are the racer type. And if you are like kiresceli, well, then you have a legitimate grip.

But don't write this car off because of these issues. If you are looking at a 2003, most of the bugs should be worked out by then.

[cam_n_scott]

My car has never been raced. Never been pushed hard for more then 6 - 7 seconds at a time (and that much very rarely) and has been above 80 mph twice total.

I know that I am the exception and not the rule in this category, however there ARE failures occuring on vehicles that have not been beat on (Yakkosmurf's friend and myself are two examples). Also this is the third case in the last week alone to appear on this board. If that is a lot or not is individual opinion, perhaps it's a freak occurance and we will never see 3 in a week ever again. Hopefully we won't.

I agree however, not to write the car off completely because of this. Still, if I were considering buying a celica, I would probably wait a bit to see exactly what comes of this issue.

[dfess1]

Originally posted by cam_n_scott
My car has never been raced. Never been pushed hard for more then 6 - 7 seconds at a time (and that much very rarely) and has been above 80 mph twice total.

I know that I am the exception and not the rule in this category, however there ARE failures occuring on vehicles that have not been beat on (Yakkosmurf's friend and myself are two examples). Also this is the third case in the last week alone to appear on this board. If that is a lot or not is individual opinion, perhaps it's a freak occurance and we will never see 3 in a week ever again. Hopefully we won't.

What year is your car.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by dfess1

And again, remember this is a brand new engine. It takes a year or two to work the kinks out. It's not a honda, and just a reiteration of the previous block, it's all BRAND NEW. The amount of money involved for a retooling of the assembly line because of a problem that shows up in .005% of the cars, is not worth it. That's what a bean counter is for.

But don't write this car off because of these issues. If you are looking at a 2003, most of the bugs should be worked out by then.
Honda went through the same process with the K20 engine for the RSX. Different block, different head, different spinning direction, different orientation. The RSX has had it's share of new model problems as well, but not the same number of catastrophic failures as the Celica.

As for problems being worked out for 2003, there isn't any sign that Toyota has taken action to change any engine internals for 2003. We'll have to see if a new part number comes up for the bearings.

[cam_n_scott]

mine is a 2000

[kireisceli]

could this be a problem to a particular batch of the engines?

Calsoldier:

Thanks, it's an invader kit.

[kireisceli]

Thank you guys all for your replies and support. :)

My celi was towed to a very friendly dealership yesterday. They saw the Injen CAI, and said it looked cool. They saw the S-AFC, didn't comment on that, but just smiled. They are now waiting for approval from the reginal service manager for the warranty repair because it'll be very costly for them. I should know more by this afternoon.

Once again, thank you all! :)

[cam_n_scott]

It looks to me like it could be a lot of things...

Best case would probaby be that someone fell asleep for a couple hours at the bearing factory and they had a bad run for one reason or another. (Small number of bearings with a high rate of failure)

Worst case would be that its something in the design / construction of the bearings causing them to fail. (All bearings have a semi-low rate of failure) Compounding this issue is that if Toyota remained unaware of this problem, they would almost certainly continue to use the same bearings.

Unfortunately, the only ones that will probably ever know the demographics of this problem is Toyota. Cross-referencing specific parts with when they were made etc. is not something thats easy to do from a data collection standpoint. Also, I doubt when Toyota DOES figure it out that they will go posting it up everywhere publicly (which is too bad because I'm interested to know myself).

[cam_n_scott]

woo-hoo 200 posts :)

[dfess1]

Originally posted by kireisceli
could this be a problem to a particular batch of the engines?

Calsoldier:

Thanks, it's an invader kit.

That's what I was trying to get across. Generally, when a new model comes out, both in suspensiona and drivetrain, there are problems. A)yeah, it's cool to have a brand new car that no one else has, but B)you are pretty much the mule to see how the car will work in the real world. Generally, it's a good rule of thumb to stay away from any first year run of anything. It does take a while to work all the kinks out of an assembly process.

[DGS]

Originally posted by yakkosmurf

Honda went through the same process with the K20 engine for the RSX. Different block, different head, different spinning direction, different orientation. The RSX has had it's share of new model problems as well, but not the same number of catastrophic failures as the Celica.

As for problems being worked out for 2003, there isn't any sign that Toyota has taken action to change any engine internals for 2003. We'll have to see if a new part number comes up for the bearings.

Exactly, this isn't a bug Toyota would want to admit to (car manufactures are very hesitant to issue a recall when it requres an engine rebuild), or possibly even know about. It seems this problem is cropping up because now people are starting to accumluate miles on their engine. It would have been great if the problem presented itself immediately, but apparently continued internal engine stresses, are what's needed to point out the faulty part.

Listen, I'm not necessarily jumping ship, and I'm still scheduled to go for my test drive in a 2003 in a few weeks, but I'm a little nervous. You have to understand, I had a high revving engine car for 5 years that I abused like crazy, and not a single problem. I know I'm repeating myself, but these rod bearing failures aren't necessarily from people who did heavy modifications to their engine, or spent every waking moment at the track. It seems, they were just driving the car the way it was meant to be driven, to work, home, school, hitting lift every now and then etc,. What I'm getting at, is the argument some people have on this thread that the problems are only happening to the hardcore racers, is simply not true. I have no desire to be one of the 1 in 1000 people that this problem happens to (okay, I never took a statistics course, so don't hold me to that ratio). I've had ACL reconstruction for me knee, and just like major human surgery, when you have major engine surgery, the problem may be fixed, but it never quite works as well as it did before the injury. I don't want to deal with an engine rebuild after 15K miles. That is ridiculous, and I don't want to be driving around in a car where in the back of mind I'm thinking "damn, I wonder if I hit lift now, the rod is gonna blow?"

You can call me a moron for getting cold feet all you want, but it's not your money you're spending to buy the car, so I really don't care what you think of me. If you want to make my monthly payments for the next 4 years, well then you can call me whatever you want. And like Yakko (gotta love that username) said, Acura/Honda cars do have some problems in the initial year, but I never heard of anyone who owns a Prelude who ever had such a serious problem with their engine during normal driving conditions. I seriously doubt RSX owners are going to be blowing engine rods after 15K miles either.

I love the Celica, and I realize the problem is not as enourmous as I, or others may be making it, but it still worries me a bit, and I may change my mind and go with the RSX. I don't know right now. If I do go with the RSX, it would only be for a 2003 model, and I found out yesterday, my local Acura dealership won't have them until October. Like I said, it's my money, and I'll spend it however I'm most comfortable.

[cam_n_scott]

Just got off the phone w/ Toyota, engine is all back in the car, they are just wiring it back up. They want to keep it overnight for testing etc, but he told me to call back tomorrow at noon. Excellent.

Asked him if hed seen any other Celicas with this problem and he said no... said he'd seen 2 5-4 downshifts and a couple CAI puddle drivethroughs but no other rod bearings so far.

New block / head etc.... I'll be interested to see the entire list of parts they replaced...

[dfess1]

Originally posted by DGS


Exactly, this isn't a bug Toyota would want to admit to (car manufactures are very hesitant to issue a recall when it requres an engine rebuild), or possibly even know about. It seems this problem is cropping up because now people are starting to accumluate miles on their engine. It would have been great if the problem presented itself immediately, but apparently continued internal engine stresses, are what's needed to point out the faulty part.

Listen, I'm not necessarily jumping ship, and I'm still scheduled to go for my test drive in a 2003 in a few weeks, but I'm a little nervous. You have to understand, I had a high revving engine car for 5 years that I abused like crazy, and not a single problem. I know I'm repeating myself, but these rod bearing failures aren't necessarily from people who did heavy modifications to their engine, or spent every waking moment at the track. It seems, they were just driving the car the way it was meant to be driven, to work, home, school, hitting lift every now and then etc,. What I'm getting at, is the argument some people have on this thread that the problems are only happening to the hardcore racers, is simply not true. I have no desire to be one of the 1 in 1000 people that this problem happens to (okay, I never took a statistics course, so don't hold me to that ratio). I've had ACL reconstruction for me knee, and just like major human surgery, when you have major engine surgery, the problem may be fixed, but it never quite works as well as it did before the injury. I don't want to deal with an engine rebuild after 15K miles. That is ridiculous, and I don't want to be driving around in a car where in the back of mind I'm thinking "damn, I wonder if I hit lift now, the rod is gonna blow?"

You can call me a moron for getting cold feet all you want, but it's not your money you're spending to buy the car, so I really don't care what you think of me. If you want to make my monthly payments for the next 4 years, well then you can call me whatever you want. And like Yakko (gotta love that username) said, Acura/Honda cars do have some problems in the initial year, but I never heard of anyone who owns a Prelude who ever had such a serious problem with their engine during normal driving conditions. I seriously doubt RSX owners are going to be blowing engine rods after 15K miles either.

I love the Celica, and I realize the problem is not as enourmous as I, or others may be making it, but it still worries me a bit, and I may change my mind and go with the RSX. I don't know right now. If I do go with the RSX, it would only be for a 2003 model, and I found out yesterday, my local Acura dealership won't have them until October. Like I said, it's my money, and I'll spend it however I'm most comfortable.

Ok, first of all, let's get something straight. It's a yamaha engine. Two, you keep comparing apples to oranges. The honda block has been around, they've found the problems involved in it, that's why it works much better. The 2zz and 1zz in a 2000 and early run 2001 is still relatively brand new. These are the first engines to hit the higher milage, and they are seeing, if this indeed is as big a prob as it's being made out to be, how this affects their bottom line. I'm sure they are trying to figure out why it fails, again, if it is such a huge problem. But to make the assumption that the engine is crap and gonna blow up is ridiculous. I had over 30k miles on my car before it died, and had absolutly no problem with it it all. I know numerous others that have milage on the car and do not have a problem with it. The problem is quite simply this, you're on the internet, again, where 1% of the population perhaps is represented. 5 or even 10 people have a problem, and all of a sudden, it's blown out of proportion. If there was that big of a problem, believe me, there'd be a recall on it. Every major corp, especially car manufactur's have what is called a "Bean Counter". They figure out how much it'd cost them to fix it under warrenty, or how much it'd cost to just do a recall. If it were that big a prob, it'd be recalled.

And from what I've heard, the RSX crowd is having just as many problems with the car as well. But hey, go take an RSX. Just don't mis-shift the car, at least toyota for the most part has been covering that...

I'm just saying use your head. You have to take into account what is happening around you. What you see and read here does NOT account for the entire population of celica owners. What is seen here as a problem, is most certianly an isolated incident in the grand scheme of things.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by kireisceli
Thank you guys all for your replies and support. :)

My celi was towed to a very friendly dealership yesterday. They saw the Injen CAI, and said it looked cool. They saw the S-AFC, didn't comment on that, but just smiled. They are now waiting for approval from the reginal service manager for the warranty repair because it'll be very costly for them. I should know more by this afternoon.

Once again, thank you all! :)
Glad to hear it sounds like the dealer is willing to help. Good luck. Keep us posted.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by dfess1


The honda block has been around, they've found the problems involved in it, that's why it works much better.

And from what I've heard, the RSX crowd is having just as many problems with the car as well. But hey, go take an RSX. Just don't mis-shift the car, at least toyota for the most part has been covering that...


The Honda K series engines are newer than the ZZ Toyota engines. The block hasn't been around that long.

The RSX crowd has had far fewer misshifts than the Celicas. Also, the RSX-S's seem to withstand misshifts a lot better than the GTS. They've even got video of a misshift and the car was just fine. They still have a lot fewer misshifts.

[dfess1]

Originally posted by yakkosmurf

The Honda K series engines are newer than the ZZ Toyota engines. The block hasn't been around that long.



I'm talking about the H series he has in his honda that he runs to Redline every day. That engine that he keeps comparing to the 2zz's reliability.

[Hungster]

i am seeing more and more reliability issues with this car. I had my prelude and traded it in for a gts 02. I will admit i beat on that car hard, and i even let my friends beat on that car, i wont let them drive my gts though now after seeing them drive my lude, hehehe. I hope my gts wont break down that easily... rethinking that maybe i should have gotten that extended warrenty. for 100k miles

[kireisceli]

I also have the extended warranty. But if they can find my mods to be guilty, then I will also lose the money I paid for the extended warrant as well. :(

[kireisceli]

ttt

[kireisceli]

Originally posted by cam_n_scott
New block / head etc.... I'll be interested to see the entire list of parts they replaced...

What was replaced?

[cam_n_scott]

ah I dont have the list with me, I can post later tonight... basically the block, head gasket (looks like they had the head sent out and re-tooled), oil pump, and maybe 4 or 5 other things I'm forgetting.

Oh and on the bottom of the sheet, highlighted in yellow and in CAPS no less, it said "OWNER ASSUMES ALL RESPONSIBILITY IN THE EVENT THAT THE COLD AIR INTAKE SYSTEM HE INSTALLED SUCKS UP WATER"

heh, at least they warned me :)

[kireisceli]

It was so dry on sunday around here I don't believe they will find water in the engine...but then again the car has been sitting on the dealer lot for 4 days now...I don't know what can get into the engine.

[noitseuQ]

this happened to me 3 days ago, and i still managed to drive the car a whopping 13 miles to the dealership, by the time i got there the rod went throught the cylnder wall as soon as i pulled in the dealer. talk about good timing.

[xi KiNG ix]

:rofl:

[xNiNjAx]

:popcorn: Gets ready for massive flaming

[2002GT_Celica]

Wow, talk about bringing a thread back from the dead.

[WutARyd]

everyone in this thread has since moved on to OT. I mean I was a member back then when this happened, but I don't think I was active.:wtc: memories...

[pimp20g]

Update?

[The Game]

Originally posted by kireisceli
Husband and I I forgot she was married...

[Zero2sicksty]

sorry maybe i am missing something..but dont you have TURBO? wouldnt that be a problem?

[hellr]

You indeed are missing something. Check the original post date.

[00bluegts]

yea come on bud, why bring this one back?

[BadAndy]

holy thread ressurection batman

[k3nn1zzy8]

kireisceli....are you bringin your car to the dealer with your SF kit on?

[lunchbox]

Originally posted by k3nn1zzy8
kireisceli....are you bringin your car to the dealer with your SF kit on?

This happened back in 8/02. :rofl:

[Bimbleuk]

Remember Yamaha designed the 2ZZGE for Toyota as they have traditionally done in the past. The 1600cc 4AGE was capable of 8000+ RPM from the factory so I don't think high REVs has ever been much of an issue.

Get some data and maybe we can narrow this down to a a certain period or even a batch of VIN numbers. Could be a bad batch of bearings or similar?

[Bobbeh]

Originally posted by The Game
I forgot she was married...

Me too!

Originally posted by BadAndy
holy thread ressurection batman

:werd:

[143hawaii]

Is your GT turbo'd? If so, I doubt they'll cover anything.

[Bobbeh]

Originally posted by 143hawaii
Is your GT turbo'd? If so, I doubt they'll cover anything.

OMG :faint:

This post is nearly 2 years old my friend!

[acilecdps6]

I traded my 2000 GT-S in with 67,000 miles. Never had ONE issue with the engine, the transmission was another story (6speed) had it reoplaced at 49k miles and the synchros were going bad at 67k. The 2000 GT-S 6 speed is very very weak, but in my case the engine was an absolute delight, not one single issue (except for the belt tensioner, and the battery dying).

[F35-JSF]

Originally posted by k3nn1zzy8
kireisceli....are you bringin your car to the dealer with your SF kit on?

http://members.fortunecity.com/robrewe/holythreadresbatman.jpg

[F22-Raptor]

The pictures should stop Rub.

[F35-JSF]

Originally posted by F22-Raptor
The pictures should stop Rub.

No.

[F22-Raptor]

Yes

[k3nn1zzy8]

hah okk mah bad. didnt know this thread was hella old.

[F35-JSF]

Originally posted by F22-Raptor
Yes


Stop it.

Originally posted by k3nn1zzy8
hah okk mah bad. didnt know this thread was hella old.

At least she still has the car.

[F22-Raptor]

Originally posted by F35-JSF
Stop it.


No

[F35-JSF]

Shameless.

[Zero2sicksty]

sorry guys..i didnt even cheked the date..but GOD y bring this back man..whats the POINT..

[The Game]

Originally posted by Bimbleuk
Remember Yamaha designed the 2ZZGE for Toyota as they have traditionally done in the past. The 1600cc 4AGE was capable of 8000+ RPM from the factory so I don't think high REVs has ever been much of an issue.

Get some data and maybe we can narrow this down to a a certain period or even a batch of VIN numbers. Could be a bad batch of bearings or similar?
Your talking about a 2zz and the thread is about a 1zz? :wtf:

[RYTEK]

I have a 2001 gt 5sp. it blew up last week and i should get it back this wensday...
I bought it in april and it had 38,000 miles on it.
In second gear around 4k rpm at full throttle...

Boooom!

Dead on the spot!
I pulled over on the bridge i was on and tried to turn it on again, and it sounded like a freaking blender with pieces of metal in it. but it was on and it sounded like a chu-chu train; my girl friend was just laughing.

All I had was a CAI, and i treat the car good, GOD IM SO PISSED OFF!!!!
knowing that it is a freaking toyota and it only had about 43,000 miles on it...

I seriously want to start a poll, because im pretty sure this must be some kind of manufactures defect; ie: (crank imbalance, cheap ass freaking rods or bearings),
whatever it is, i want to find out, we really need to let the community know!!!