View Full Version : hondata ecu's, S2000's, and GTS-s, OH MY!
honda troll
10-16-2002, 06:55 PM
I have seen several threads that have discussed the Hondata ECU coming out for the RSX, and the effect this has on the Celica GTS crowd, as well as comparisons with the S2000.
This is the information providedby a member on S2ki.com named "ultimate lurker". He owns a dyno shop, and hondata actually uses HIS dyno shop for their R&D.
Here's some of his information....
There's a lot more power in the RSX ECU than you might think Fanman. No official numbers have been published yet, but Hondata uses my dyno for their R&D, and the gains available from ECU tuning on the RSX are substantial.
Hondata has brought a couple of ECU's over to test on the dyno (they've gotten inside the code now), but they're having problems with the immobilizer system. Simply can't get the car to start. Once they figure that out they'll start characterizing the ECU and see what code block affects what function - at least that's my guess.
However, I don't think the S2K has quite the priority that the RSX ECU does (volume, plus the RSX is flashable). They've been spending a lot of time on that one. I don't expect to see anything saleable before the end of this year, but its really out of my hands. I just offered them my car if they needed to test anything. They have to do the hard stuff, and it is a business for them.
But yes, I think that there are nice gains to be had. Between what we see with the VAFC, and some of the gains we've seen with Mugen ECUs, there's another 10-15 hp across much of the rpm band with ECU tuning.
the results are ever changing and increasingly encouraging. And with valve springs the RSX engine will rev to 8800 rpm all day long without problem (I've driven one).
As for S2k vs RSX... you are still looking at FWD vs RWD. Even with the hondata ECU, the S2000 will still be faster in stock form due to more agressive gearing, redline, weight, etc, etc.
And whomever said the S2k engine and RSX-S engine are almost identical was way off. Other than the fact that the engines spin the same direction, they share basically nothing. Completely different parts, valve train system, pistons, VTEC system, etc, etc.
I am trying to help you guys out by providing some information right from the "horse's mouth" so to speak. I hope I can help clear things up.
oo_snoopy
10-16-2002, 06:59 PM
honduhs ...what?
RiCeY GtS
10-16-2002, 07:10 PM
hmmm.... i heard that the rsx-s engine can handle as much as the s2k... because honda didnt want the rsx-s completing with the s2k..... rumor?
The Anti-Rice
10-16-2002, 07:13 PM
Its interesting that they're having trouble with the immobilizer. At first I thought maybe it was a bad easter egg left there by the OEM programs to foil such efforts, but considering that Honda tends to give new model production cars to companies for testing I think its probably unlikely.
oo_snoopy
10-16-2002, 07:23 PM
So what does this have to do with the GT-s?
ap1f20c
10-16-2002, 07:46 PM
Actually one of the guys who said that the two engines are very similar was none other than me, who happens to go by ultimate lurker on the S2ki forums ;-)
SC
Originally posted by honda troll
And whomever said the S2k engine and RSX-S engine are almost identical was way off. Other than the fact that the engines spin the same direction, they share basically nothing. Completely different parts, valve train system, pistons, VTEC system, etc, etc.
I am trying to help you guys out by providing some information right from the "horse's mouth" so to speak. I hope I can help clear things up.
honda troll
10-16-2002, 09:54 PM
ahhh. ultimate lurker. :) then I will assume I took your statement out of context, as I know your automotive knowledge is superior to mine. I more than likely misunderstood your comment then.
By the way, hope you don't mind me using your words and trying to bring some resolve to this whole ECU debate!
hmmm.... i heard that the rsx-s engine can handle as much as the s2k... because honda didnt want the rsx-s completing with the s2k..... rumor? probably rumor. The two engines really are on completely different platforms. The S2k has many unique things about it's engine, internals, and VTEC system. Can the K20A2 hit 240hp in N/A form? From what Ultimate Lurker has said, it certainly looks possible.
TeeAREdee
10-16-2002, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by oo_snoopy
So what does this have to do with the GT-s?
Thats a very good question, inquiring minds want to know.
honda troll
10-16-2002, 11:05 PM
Well the RSX-S is a competing car with the GTS, so information about the competition is always a plus. If someone wants to race you, and they have a Hondata ECU, wouldn't you feel better knowing what kind of HP gains they got from it, rather than being completely clueless as to just what that mod did?
I wish hondata would jump ship and do that **** for us :(
honda troll
10-17-2002, 02:14 AM
What kind of ECU's are available for the GTS? Anything half way decent?? I would think it would be in TRD's best interest to have such an item.
TRD?!?
:rofl: :rofl:
No comments...
about 80% of aftermarket companies are honda biased.
Pretty stupid to me.
bagodoosh
10-17-2002, 06:52 AM
some company way back was working on a CPU for gts. promised 9000 RPM. said that gts ran for 36 hours strait at 9k. 200HP at the wheel, lower 2nd cam, blah blah.. then the project was canceled because they went thru enough engines and bent valves i guess. (this is from memory so i could be partialy off).
has hondata's ecu been properly tested for reliability? do you think they actualy warranty their product if it causes any malfunction in the engine? doubt so.
the comment about rsx competeing with s2k COULD be a marketing scheme. common question would be, then why did honda detune the engine? common sense would say reliability, marketing would say.. s2k.
wasnt the S2000 Engine enternals Highly beefed up?
Keyshawn
10-17-2002, 07:22 AM
Originally posted by bagodoosh
some company way back was working on a CPU for gts. promised 9000 RPM. said that gts ran for 36 hours strait at 9k. 200HP at the wheel, lower 2nd cam, blah blah.. then the project was canceled because they went thru enough engines and bent valves i guess. (this is from memory so i could be partialy off).
A company called EL Prototypes was working on the GT-S piggyback ECU your're talking about. This was about two years ago. Nothing ever really came of it. If anyone wants to call em and find out what happened, here's their contact info:
EL Prototypes: (626)812-0857
email: elproto@aol.com
99interlude
10-17-2002, 07:36 AM
Originally posted by bagodoosh
some company way back was working on a CPU for gts. promised 9000 RPM. said that gts ran for 36 hours strait at 9k. 200HP at the wheel, lower 2nd cam, blah blah.. then the project was canceled because they went thru enough engines and bent valves i guess. (this is from memory so i could be partialy off).
has hondata's ecu been properly tested for reliability? do you think they actualy warranty their product if it causes any malfunction in the engine? doubt so.
the comment about rsx competeing with s2k COULD be a marketing scheme. common question would be, then why did honda detune the engine? common sense would say reliability, marketing would say.. s2k.
Its a risk you gotta take your engine cant run forever, depends how you drive also, and why compete a 4X4 RSX to a sexy car like the S2K not only that, the price difference... :rolleyes: 80% is honda because kids love them but thats changing quick, take the Camero's, Mustangs And Firebirds for example they are putting up a fight now and how about Dodge, lol all we need now is a turbo Cav.. stock ohhh my.
t2000gts
10-17-2002, 09:19 AM
the k20 and the f20 are both n/a 2.0l inline 4s made by honda.
they'll both have similar potential. the K20 has i-VTEC, but it also wasn't designed to be maxed out like the F20 either so it should end up being similar at the end.
if honda wanted, they could make a 120-140hp/liter K20....if toyota wanted, they could make a 120-140hp/liter 2ZZ (didn't they already? i thought TRD cams/pistons/valvetrain had it at 230hp).
they won't though. the only difference is, honda guys have other companies who are willing to **** around.
t2000gts
10-17-2002, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by 99interlude
Its a risk you gotta take your engine cant run forever, depends how you drive also, and why compete a 4X4 RSX to a sexy car like the S2K not only that, the price difference... :rolleyes: 80% is honda because kids love them but thats changing quick, take the Camero's, Mustangs And Firebirds for example they are putting up a fight now and how about Dodge, lol all we need now is a turbo Cav.. stock ohhh my.
the f-bodies have been discontinued, the next generation mustang looks weird as hell and the Cobra R is great, but way out of the league of most kids. the next GM sporty cars are actually the Pontiac GTO which is geared for richer older guys (who want a RWD, LS1-powered sedan), and hell the Pontiac Vibe which has the Toyota 2ZZ-GE in it. at least until they do something about the f-bodies.
on the other hand, Dodge does have a turbo Neon coming out, though. You can also buy GM performance parts for the Cavalier (i think it's mostly ricey TRD-like stuff, however.)
99interlude
10-17-2002, 09:29 AM
Either way you see my point, you can still get a f-body pretty cheap and it still hauls ass... and the new cav's the Z24 specially is hauling now.
Drag'nGT
10-17-2002, 09:56 AM
You just have to do the best with what you have. There's no sense in feeling bad about haveing a car that's 2 years old and was just slightly ahead of the "turbo sedan" craze. I drool on WRXs all the time. But I don't cry at night because I don't own one.
Originally posted by Drag'nGT
You just have to do the best with what you have. There's no sense in feeling bad about haveing a car that's 2 years old and was just slightly ahead of the "turbo sedan" craze. I drool on WRXs all the time. But I don't cry at night because I don't own one.
SO TRUE:werd:
honda troll
10-17-2002, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by BRAK
wasnt the S2000 Engine enternals Highly beefed up? yup. forged internals, ported and polished from the factory, skirtless pistons, new valve train and cam/rocker following system for high RPM's, etc, etc.
Keyshawn
10-17-2002, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by Drag'nGT
You just have to do the best with what you have. There's no sense in feeling bad about haveing a car that's 2 years old and was just slightly ahead of the "turbo sedan" craze. I drool on WRXs all the time. But I don't cry at night because I don't own one.
Very well-said.:thumbup: Another silly reaction to the arrival of cars like the WRX is the tendency by some peeps on this board to badmouth and disrespect these other sport compact cars in order to feel better about their Celicas. (I've seen this done to the WRX, Mazdaspeed Protege, RSX, Neon SRT-4, the list goes on and on). Pathetic.
sil-8-ty
10-17-2002, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by Drag'nGT
You just have to do the best with what you have. There's no sense in feeling bad about haveing a car that's 2 years old and was just slightly ahead of the "turbo sedan" craze. I drool on WRXs all the time. But I don't cry at night because I don't own one.
True true true.. I used to own a mirage and I dealt with it until I got this gts.. learn to love what you have and be thankful for what you got. 180 is plenty if you ask me.. enough to beat most civics and give the ITR a run for their money..
BTW i remember reading something in a magazine that some JDM company do make a ECU for the GTS, I will look into that tonite.
t2000gts
10-18-2002, 05:13 PM
i wonder, if the celica ecu can be flashed like the rsx ecu.
Keyshawn
10-18-2002, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by t2000gts
i wonder, if the celica ecu can be flashed like the rsx ecu.
Read some of the posts here to get more info on the subject:
http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47394
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