got back from talking to a toyota mechanic

[ZeroGTS]

the more it seems i talk to people about the GTS, the more i wish i'd gotten something else. it seems that everyone and their mother is blowing trannies. he himself said they have never seen any engine problems on ANY automatic equipped GTS...only manuals.
He said something about the syncros being too fast for their own good....they basically commit suicide if you slam the clutch too hard.

:(

im kinda wishing id gotten something else now. theres a nice supra TT for 23.5k. 1994....63k miles...pretty much stock.
300ZXTT for 18....she'll do 12's...my firends car.

lexus is300 looks appealing and so does the new AWD matrix (witha a turbo of course).

This whole GTS thing is gettin me down. hopefully the flywheel will change all of that...unless i findt hat my transmission took a dump and it about to break.

im so scared that im going to find something bad when i crack open my tranny tomorrow.

[autxr]

Wah. Dial 9 wah wah and call the wahmbulance.

If mine werent in the body shop right now I'd have 40,000 miles and no problems. I autocross with a guy that got over 50,000 miles with no problems.

The problem is Toyota is selling a sports car to 16 year olds. That wasn't a problem with the Supra. Imagine if the same folks bought a MkIII supra as a 7th gen celica. It'd be carnage on the streets.

Scott

[Brett]

I have 24,000 miles on my car and am on my third transmission. Sorry but the GTS Trannys suck.Mechanic is dead on the money about the synchros.

[WillyK]

I only have 15500 miles on my gts and the syncros are starting to go for the second time and I don't even drive that car all that hard very often. I am just worried what it will be like when the warranty is up and this keeps happening :mad:

[CloNeGTS]

I'm with scott on this one. They build a car for the better drivers out there and people who don't know how to drive em end up having problems.

I've got 37k on mine with several autoxs on her and not a damn problem.

I wouldn't take any mechanic's comments to heart. One dealership is supposed to represent the whole country? Yeah, right. Not that the guy couldn't have been having a bad day and just wanna bitch at his "boss" Toyota about something.

[larryd]

BS.. its not the fact of better drives have less problems.. its a simple fact that the Celica isnt built for abuse.. and im not just saying that cuz I dont own one anymore.. I said the same thing when I had mine.. the car really isnt able to take the abuse of dragracing & autox..its a show car.. sorry guys.. but sure there are some of you who have had the cars with xx miles on them with no problems, but it seems rare.. to the people on here who do beat the hell outta the car on a regular basis, we have alot of problems.. synchros shouldnt go the way they do.. misshifting is all driver error but it just seems to happen to the Celica more than anything else..

[autxr]

It may not be able to take the abusxe of drag racing (at the track or every launch on the street), but it is most certainly able to take the abuse of autocrossing.

My Celica has been through over 300 autocross runs in the 2 years I've owned it. The number is probably closer to 350 or 400. That is *seriouos* autocrossing. Most national level drivers don't get that many runs on their cars in 2 years.

My only problem was the stock shocks wore out. No shock there.

Autocrossing isn't really hard on the tranny. One 1-2 shift, occasionally 2 or 3 per run. Not a big deal, often you short shift for the sake of smoothness.

I even get to do 2-3 and 3-2 shifts from time to time.

I'll agree that many folks do have problems. Like it or not, most will probably boil down to abuse (or nearly such) or just poor technique.

You really think staying in lift on the 1-2 shift isn't helping wear things out.

Scott

[Jesse IL]

Originally posted by autxr
Wah. Dial 9 wah wah and call the wahmbulance.

If mine werent in the body shop right now I'd have 40,000 miles and no problems. I autocross with a guy that got over 50,000 miles with no problems.

The problem is Toyota is selling a sports car to 16 year olds. That wasn't a problem with the Supra. Imagine if the same folks bought a MkIII supra as a 7th gen celica. It'd be carnage on the streets.

Scott

Amen Scott. 21,500 miles here, not a single problem with the trans ever. I think it comes down to technique. Besides the fact, almost any car you can think of has some sort of weak spot. How 'bout transmissions on WRX/2.5 RS? Those are notoriously weak. You find me a car that can handle 10 drag strip launches a day, and I guarantee I'll find some other glaring weakness with it. My only two major complaints about the Celica are:

tensioner pulley
stock shocks

[MarkyMark]

like 300zx's are fun to fix...hope youre rich!!

[Brett]

Originally posted by Jesse IL


Amen Scott. 21,500 miles here, not a single problem with the trans ever. I think it comes down to technique. Besides the fact, almost any car you can think of has some sort of weak spot. How 'bout transmissions on WRX/2.5 RS? Those are notoriously weak. You find me a car that can handle 10 drag strip launches a day, and I guarantee I'll find some other glaring weakness with it. My only two major complaints about the Celica are:

tensioner pulley
stock shocks

Be glad you dont have a problem, btw what year is your celica? And its not so much the launch that is killing the synchros, its the high rev shifts that are killing them. And just because you have no problems (Knock on wood) doesn't somehow dismiss the MANY that have. I know people that shift perfectly, rev match on every downshift and still have synchro issues. So dont be so naive to say otherwise.

[Brett]

I forgot to mention a guy I met around here that has a Celica and had his Syncrhos Replaced after 5,000 miles!!!!, and the guy I talked to who just bought a Celica and already has a Second gear grind at high rev shifts (Early symptoms of bad synchro). Your an idiot if you think its all driver error, and I will laugh my ass of when it happens to you.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by CloNeGTS

I wouldn't take any mechanic's comments to heart. One dealership is supposed to represent the whole country? Yeah, right. Not that the guy couldn't have been having a bad day and just wanna bitch at his "boss" Toyota about something.
I can back up the findings of ZeroGTS. I don't know what dealer his mechanic works at, but my bro works at Sterling McCall Toyota and they have seen hundreds of GTS's with blown engines and tranny problems. His dealer even handled my friend's GTS catching on fire. They are the second largest Toyota dealer in the country, and they've seen tons of problems with the car. I've taken my Type R over there for service, and the other service advisors tell me I made the right choice choosing the Type R over the GTS. One of the senior guys said, "Honda sure knows how to make a strong engine." These problems are not very Toyota-like.

Yes, some of the problems have been driver skill related. But many of them have been mechanical problems with the car. Like my friend's GTS that dropped a rod at 60 mph while coasting off the freeway in 6th gear.

[racinjason]

Well I had my 2nd and 3rd gear syncros replaced over the summer finally too. I think it was a combination problem of cost effective sycro Toyota uses and my shifting technique.

But don't by any means think well this is a Celica problem and I'll buy a WRX and forget about it. I'll say this again! This happens on all cars, makes and models and all years. Mustangs, Integras, Civics, Celicas, MR2s. They all run into this problem alot. If you race the tranny hard your more likely to break something. There are plenty occurances with syncros just being plain faulty as well. Hell they are going bad within the first 2,000 miles in the RSX's.

Proper shifting techniques decrease chances of tranny failures. And if your planning on racing. at least put some high end tranny lube to help the gears and sycros last longer.

[Rocket]

i guess this only applies to the GTS?? not sure how the synchros are different in the GT and GTS but I redline mine almost every other day after the car is all nice and warmed up.. and my lil GT runs like a champ. use to be a little rough shifting to second at the redline, but now it shifts buttery smooth...

[autxr]

I don't deny that there are going to be some lemon trannies out there.

The GT and GTS AFAIK use the exact same synchros (probably part of the problem. Not quite engineered for the extra 2000 rpm).

But, about Brett's comment about friends that shift perfectly and rev match every downshift, etc.

Well, if they did that they wouldn't need synchros now would they?

Drive a big rig. No synchros there, yet they still shift gears. The good drivers even do it without grinding much. A perfect rev match means no synchro wear. An improper rev match will result in more wear.

Scott

[Brett]

Thats not the point autxr, The point is, the synchros can prematurly ware out with a good driver.

[WillyK]

Originally posted by Brett
Thats not the point autxr, The point is, the synchros can prematurly ware out with a good driver.

I am going to agree here, I dont consider myself a great driver, but nor do I consider myself a poor driver. Hell I dont even shift 1-2 trying to keep it in lift, I just shift casually and let it drop to 5500 and work its way back up. Right now I have 2nd, 3rd, and 5th messed up. The first time it was 2nd and 4th. I just find it aggravating, I wish toyota could come up with a fix to take care of it or at least make them last longer.

[Mistrimeat]

My Brother-in-Law is a Toyota Mechanic, and when I was looking into buying a Celica, he advised me not to buy the 6-spd. GT-S for the very problems you are describing. He said if he was to ever buy a Celica, it would be the 5 spd. GT - because the motor is strong and you can practically run it into the ground without any problems somewhere down the line. :shocked He agreed the GT-S was alot quicker, but from a maintenance and longevity standpoint, the GT would be the smarter choice between the two. I know this does not help your situation any, just thought I'd share. :cool:



BTW - I took his advice. ;)

[CelicaDetective]

Well, that SUCKS. Why. WHY?!!? I tracked the Toyota XYR (Xtreme, Young, Racy) from it's birth at it's concept model intro. Of course it was rated at 200HP I think and was a 2.0 liter. So it did change with cheaper parts.

So Toyota is basically at the bottom of the list in performance/reliability and even the new Tiburon will be a better buy ... right?

:(

[autxr]

Of course the Celica is listed as a best buy by Consumer Reports with virtually no problems reported by it's readers.

Either the folks with synchro issues don't subscribe (or just don't fill out the survey), or there really are not a lot of problems.

Could be a correlation between the typical geek/secretary (95% of the Celica market) and no problems. I'm one of those geek consumer report readers with no problems.

If I did have all the problems that other have, I'd likely not be on this board, I'd have already sold the car and would be driving something else (like a WRX, or maybe that new Mercedes, it's pretty cool).

Scott

[SilverGTS]

So is Toyota covering the syncros under warrnty? Anyone know how much it'll cost to fix?

[CloNeGTS]

Synchros will never be covered by warranty. They are a wear item just as a clutch or brake pads. Synchros are really nothing more than little clutches that get the gear spinning up before the dogs actually engage the gear. If you make them spin up the engine AND the gear, you'll wear em out. Plain and simple. So either rev match or better yet double clutch.

This whole conversation is BS. I don't care if your neighbor's brother's drunken wife is the mechanic's blow job girl....no one knows jack about the car as a whole. If there were such horrible problems with the tranny/engine...

1. Toyota would change it/TSB it
2. they wouldn't put it in ANOTHER car (Matrix)
3. There would be horrible write ups in magazines and there wouldn't be people praising the engine/tranny as a better yet than VTEC. People know a bad car when they see em. The WRX has only been out for a year and Motor Trend/Autoweek are already saying there are problems with the engine mounts/other items in their test cars.

Cars go bad, it happens. Toyota is known for quality cars and I'm sure there are bad cars out there, but guys....you make it should like it's the damn plague! If you really hate the car that much, go sell the thing! I feel very confident in my car and I know many others do as well.

[ZIGGY GTS]

Originally posted by larryd
BS.. its not the fact of better drives have less problems.. its a simple fact that the Celica isnt built for abuse.. and im not just saying that cuz I dont own one anymore.. I said the same thing when I had mine.. the car really isnt able to take the abuse of dragracing & autox..its a show car.. sorry guys.. but sure there are some of you who have had the cars with xx miles on them with no problems, but it seems rare.. to the people on here who do beat the hell outta the car on a regular basis, we have alot of problems.. synchros shouldnt go the way they do.. misshifting is all driver error but it just seems to happen to the Celica more than anything else..

Thank you larry for saying that...I remember back when i was having problems with my car and people were to point out that it was my fault...I'm glad to hear you seeing things my way now...Remember CarbonGT from unison? he is seeing things our way too!!! =)

[afghan]

Scott, you don't have to make excuses. We know what the deal is here and so do they.

Yakker, another good reply! How many miles do you have on your typeR? Thought so, an you autox right?! Thought so. How many typeRs sold and how many celicas? Yea, I was right again. Oh, one more thing, what is the average age of celica owners?

RSX owners (not one) has blown a motor yet have they!?! Yea, I thought so too.

What kind of crap is that (hundreds of celicas with blown motors)
Stick to engineering not your public relations campaign. Throw in some common sense while your at it.

I thought maybe you guys learned somthing. Sure I would be (real)pissed off if I blew my motor. I would have to take a good hard look at myself before I started pointing fingers.

Larry said the key word; ABUSE!

I race my car(not on the road) and I don't abuse it. There is a difference.

I can also prove my results and so can Scott, I think.


:D :cool:

[ZIGGY GTS]

Originally posted by Jesse IL


Amen Scott. 21,500 miles here, not a single problem with the trans ever. I think it comes down to technique. Besides the fact, almost any car you can think of has some sort of weak spot. How 'bout transmissions on WRX/2.5 RS? Those are notoriously weak. You find me a car that can handle 10 drag strip launches a day, and I guarantee I'll find some other glaring weakness with it. My only two major complaints about the Celica are:

tensioner pulley
stock shocks

actually jesse, honda's dont have half of the problems our celicas do...My friend has a 1994 Integra GSR that has been ran to hell ever since it was new...Yes, full blown launches, dropping to 3rd at 80, etc, etc....This car now has 75,000 miles and has never had a problem with ANYTHING....Sure, some cars will have problems and some wont...But there are more occurances of celicas having problems more than anything! Honda's sometimes have problems also...but not as much as the 2000 celica.=)

[Dealer Xing]

Although I never broke the synchros on the Celica, I must say the Celica is not built to last. So many things (minor or major) have fallen apart on this car much more often than other cars, as posted in this board.

I didn't have any synchro problem when I sold my car with 22000 miles, I drove very hard though. But there were other annoyance that made me got rid of it.

[oldster]

Originally posted by yakkosmurf

I can back up the findings of ZeroGTS. I don't know what dealer his mechanic works at, but my bro works at Sterling McCall Toyota and they have seen hundreds of GTS's with blown engines and tranny problems.

Yakko, we've had this discussion before. How many, was it 100, 200,300 or 400. Once again you throw some numbers out in hopes that they'll stick. If you have all of this quantifiable data then what is the percentage of blown engines versus the number sold? I'm anxiously awaiting your reply which will probably consist of that's what my bro told me, just like last time.

[gsport]

i thought it was a misshift problem 5th to second then the motor revs to 10k. i think the trans uses double synchros so it shifts smoothly at high rpm. i work for toyota i never heard of synchro problems yet. then again there aint that much gts's over here.

[gts24]

OK, this is so typical. I used to come on here and say, yup it's all driver error...... Sorry it's not.
First of all, let me say this, I love my car, and I will push that thing before I own anything else right now... BUT, I am having problems with 1-2 shift, and a simple downshift to 3rd WITH A PERFECT REV MATCH.
1. I have never owned an automatic driven car. I am a farmkid from ND who used to have to drive grain trucks with no synchros.. .and make the shift or have my granpa get on my case...
2. The car I owned before this ... well to put it plainly I beat the livin piss outta it, and now has well over 130k on it, my brother now has the priveledge of beating the crap out of it. ..... he' drives 5 X harder than I ever did, no grinds, no problems.
3. I have yet to even take my car to the track....
4. This car has not been mis-shifted at all,
5. So if this car is not to be "rodded" on ,,, why don't all of us that own GT-S's re-think our purchase and get an Echo or something like that... Why own a GT-S ???
6. I think it's great that you most of you guys aren't having problems... Awesome... but seriously I will put money on it that 1 outta 5 of you will have it,eventually, and you will come here "whining" about it..... I DID........................ :(
7. One dealership here in Minneapolis (where seeing a 6 speed GT-S is about as rare as no snow here in MN) has 3 6 speed GT-S's in for tranny issues right now......

once again,,, I love this car. and I even make excuses for why it is grinding.... I even deny it to "non" toyota people just because I am a little toyota lovin bitch... but seriously props to you guys not havin problems,, just take it easy on us that are having them ;) one day you may be on the other side of the fence like I am now

[3sgte]

I have been drag racing for many years with different cars, mustang, civic, integra and this year with a celica gts that my brother own. I race nearly every weekend with his car and my 91t mr2. All i can tell you guys is that whatever the car you have, if you drag race like it should be done, you will destroy your tranny, no question. I don't know why you think the gts tranny is bad, in my case it's actually better than the average. I did broke 5 integra tranny in 6 month, and i am talking about snap gear shaft, snap fork, destroyed syncro, clutch etc. But if i looked at all the problems every drag freak has, i can't tell you honda tranny's are weak, because it's like that for every other car out there. On the last summer with the gts the dealer fix the second gear syncro two times, nothing more, and i am more violent than ever, sorry but i am impressed. Hey, with my mustang i could not do more than two drag weekend without having tranny problems. Understant that the dealer is not selling you a drag car, but a everyday funny sport car built for Mr Everybody.
Bottom line: whatever the car: Drag race = tranny problems, accept it!
Theres a guy here who is name LarryD, i am sorry for him, but Awd Eagle Talon and Mitsu Eclipse are the cars who have tranny problems the more often, and they are know for that, but it's still a amazing car with a lot of potential, good luck.
Sorry for the english, i am from quebec Canada.

[DaksGT]

I'm with jesse il on this one the only problem about the celi is the belt tensioner and the stock shocks (mine are shot)
Also autxr what do you mean that improper rev matching will kill the synchros. If u rev to high etc... Please explain.

[ZeroGTS]

just a thought....
first off i found out my problem...the dealer sucks.
pretty much they just dont wanna mess around with my tranny...they are just makin excuses

second of all...has anyone htought to upgrade their transmission fluids? stuff like that?
my friend with a mustang says its pretty important on her car...shes pretty mechanical. (got a 5.0)
so i figure on our torqueless wonders it might help too

just a thought.

i say we all find some niced tranny fluid...a lotta peopel say it helps.

8000 rpm shifts must be boiling those suckers.

[Kit99bar]

it's probably cuz people don't push the clutch all the way down and FULLY engage the clutch between shifts.

that's my guess

[Brett]

Originally posted by CloNeGTS
Synchros will never be covered by warranty. They are a wear item just as a clutch or brake pads. Synchros are really nothing more than little clutches that get the gear spinning up before the dogs actually engage the gear. If you make them spin up the engine AND the gear, you'll wear em out. Plain and simple. So either rev match or better yet double clutch.

Yes Synchros will never be covered under warrenty :rolleyes:
Its kinda funny, when synchros are suppose to last ALOT more then 20 thousand miles. BTW, tell me this, you think "If you make them spin up the engine AND the gear, you'll wear em out" in 20k miles?

[daSchtick]

Originally posted by yakkosmurf

I can back up the findings of ZeroGTS. I don't know what dealer his mechanic works at, but my bro works at Sterling McCall Toyota and they have seen hundreds of GTS's with blown engines and tranny problems. His dealer even handled my friend's GTS catching on fire. They are the second largest Toyota dealer in the country, and they've seen tons of problems with the car. I've taken my Type R over there for service, and the other service advisors tell me I made the right choice choosing the Type R over the GTS. One of the senior guys said, "Honda sure knows how to make a strong engine." These problems are not very Toyota-like.

Yes, some of the problems have been driver skill related. But many of them have been mechanical problems with the car. Like my friend's GTS that dropped a rod at 60 mph while coasting off the freeway in 6th gear.

Hundreds? :rolleyes: At ONE dealer? Does that make 10's of thousands across the US? That must include mine! Oh my God, I must be driving around with a BLOWN engine, and I don't even know it! :D

I agree that there has been a larger than average fallout of GT-S 6-speeds, but hundreds at one dealer? I'm with oldster on this one!

Also, I'm wondering how many 35+ year olds have blown engines? I'm thinking maybe........NONE? (See, I can pull data from my hinder too! :D)

[WillyK]

Well syncros do get replaced under warranty, at least they are doing it at my dealership now for the 2nd time. I'm sorry but these things should not wear out this fast and all this crap about rev-matching double clutching....screw that. Isn't the whole point of syncros so you DONT have to do that? I'll admit that I do it when I am on the highway and downshift to 3rd or 4th gear but that is the only time I will do it. I don't drag race or anything with my car, yet mine keep going bad. I guess you guys with no problems are the lucky ones huh?

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by racinjason
I'll say this again! This happens on all cars, makes and models and all years. Mustangs, Integras, Civics, Celicas, MR2s. They all run into this problem alot. If you race the tranny hard your more likely to break something.
You're right. I drive my MR2 pretty hard. It's started developing the 2nd gear grind when I shift out of 1st gear at high rpm. So it does happen to more than just Celicas. (Did I mention my MR2 has 230k miles on it and this just started recently?)

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by afghan


Yakker, another good reply! How many miles do you have on your typeR? Thought so, an you autox right?! Thought so. How many typeRs sold and how many celicas? Yea, I was right again. Oh, one more thing, what is the average age of celica owners?


No autocrossing, but I do like the road course. More shifting, more speed, not as frequent braking but from a higher speed. My R has 8300 miles on it. That's more than the 5k miles a lot of the synchro victims are seeing. I have friend's who extensively autocross their GSRs. No tranny problems for them. How many GSRs are out there versus Celicas? How many more miles do those GSRs have? How old are the GSR drivers?

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by oldster


Yakko, we've had this discussion before. How many, was it 100, 200,300 or 400. Once again you throw some numbers out in hopes that they'll stick. If you have all of this quantifiable data then what is the percentage of blown engines versus the number sold? I'm anxiously awaiting your reply which will probably consist of that's what my bro told me, just like last time.
Hundreds was the number the service writers and mechanics said when asked about it. One guy said he could replace a GTS engine and tranny in his sleep he's done it so much. These are my friends. I'm not going to ask them to pull data. I respect their professional opinions and their quantifications of what they have seen.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by daSchtick


Hundreds? :rolleyes: At ONE dealer? Does that make 10's of thousands across the US? That must include mine! Oh my God, I must be driving around with a BLOWN engine, and I don't even know it! :D

I agree that there has been a larger than average fallout of GT-S 6-speeds, but hundreds at one dealer? I'm with oldster on this one!

Also, I'm wondering how many 35+ year olds have blown engines? I'm thinking maybe........NONE? (See, I can pull data from my hinder too! :D)
As I stated (if you read more carefully) this is the second largest dealer in the country. They also have repair jobs sent to them from other dealers with smaller service departments. That's part of the reason they see so many. This isn't some little dealer in a city of 500,000 people. This is a large dealer pulling from a large area. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Don't know the age of the customers. But evey now and then I run into a Celica guy on Westheimer who's engine was replaced by my brother's mechanics. It's funny when they think I am him. It hasn't happened in a while because I haven't been out much.

[t2000gts]

people keep babbling out of their asses in this thread...

whoever says the GTS motor is not strong (i.e, a Type R or Honda motor is better or the GT motor is stronger) is smoking some serious crack. there's nothing really wrong with the motor aside from some lemons that throw rods (nod to yakko who keeps track of this statistic ;)).

case in point is the thousands of automatic GTS(s) that have no problems. and in case you're gonna say they're not driven hard, yeah, they probably aren't, but the auto GTS guys on this board drive their cars hard. i've been redlining and shifting off the rev limiter on my car everyday since i hit the 1000 mile mark. and i'm at 20,500 miles almost. my only problems came from my injen cai sucking up water (a simple engine/tranny flush and ECU reset got this fixed up) and my dealer ****ing up an oil change (the drain plug fell out on the highway and all the oil leaked out). even despite those problems, the engine still runs strong today.

this in addition to whenever companies look at the engine and say it should be able to run to higher than 8300 without problems. and it can...that one guy has his rev limiter at 8500 and last i heard his engine is still running fine. the 8300 rev limiter is fine for driving at the limit, but the 7800rpm limiter (in new 6-speeds and in all autos) seems to be necessary for people who like to run over the limit.

the problem is the 6-speed transmission and the gearing. the 1-2 shift is just too tall. and people shift like maniacs when they're drag racing. if you didn't race your 6-speed (i.e, land in VVTL-i on the 1->2 shift) you'd probably be fine right now. this is even more the fault of the gearing, than the transmission. i don't know any honda cars with this narrow of a powerband added to a tall 1->2 shift.

now...has anyone had any problems with '02 trannies yet? are they really different or not? some people have said they can stay in lift easier, some have said they can't (both with the lower rev limiteR). personally, i've ridden in a friend's car (:D) and his tranny's still new and he landed at 7000rpm on a 1->2 shift and his tires spun a bit (or tried, but they grip well) without really doing anything. if the gear ratios are the same, what did they do? new synchros? why do the synchros keep going out anyway? are they too 'good'? if they're too good, why do they go out! why don't they make insane synchros that can actually keep up with all this shifting.

BTW, tranny problems are evident on any tranny being drag raced. the RSX guys are misshifting too. even S2000 guys with their much more 'sports car friendly' demographics have the occaisonal misshift. and engine problems on these cars are mostly attributed to the fact that the TRANSMISSION IS CONNECTED TO THE ENGINE. when you abuse one, you'll probably abuse the other.

[WillyK]

Originally posted by yakkosmurf

You're right. I drive my MR2 pretty hard. It's started developing the 2nd gear grind when I shift out of 1st gear at high rpm. So it does happen to more than just Celicas. (Did I mention my MR2 has 230k miles on it and this just started recently?)

My previous car was a little pos 94 escort gt and i ran that thing into the damn ground and I never had a problem with syncros or the tranny period. Can't say that much for the rest of the car though. :)

Maybe Toyota should ask Honda for some help on making syncros that can handle the higher rpms better. :confused:

[ZeroGTS]

yeah well your escort didn't exactly have near 200 hp and a powerband that slams 40 hp into the mix at around 6000 rpm.

i think half our problems are A. the vvtli crossover is REALLY tough on the car, especially when modded. ever felt the kick after you isntall intake and ehxaust? definitely harder than stock...i think that hurts it a little.
powershifting cant help either. As it is now, esp once my flywheel is in, im through powershifting.
I killed my clutch after 15k....it sips like crazy now. why is that?
every time i actually DO race...i dont dump the clutch...i slip it...same with landing at 6k....i SLOWLY let out the clutch on the 1-2 shift.

why? my tranny likes it. I talked to a guy who builds 10 second hondas with stock trannies for aliving....he granny shifts too.
Transmissions are ALWAYS the weak link.

And BTW, even the TOYOTA mechanic talked about how amazingly powerful our motors are.

And people misshift Type R motors too.

I feel better after talking to carboy...they had a lot of confidence int he GTS...and all they deal with is racing/performance.

Im happy again...but im also very poor.
But i dont care, im shooting for fastest NA celica run. 13's here i come.

[WillyK]

Originally posted by ZeroGTS
yeah well your escort didn't exactly have near 200 hp and a powerband that slams 40 hp into the mix at around 6000 rpm.

True that :)

[SilverTRD]

is this just a GT-S problem or should GT owners beware to?

[GTS LAID]

Hey I'll tell you guys my exp. with a 00 GT-S 6spd

I blew the engine, shattered the flywheel bolts, and exploded the oil pump all in one mis-shift.

The dealer took it, replaced everything between the air intake manifold and the differential... and told me to be on my way. It took three weeks. They were nice about it, they indicated that it was my fault.

Now I have the 00 ECU coupled to 02 tranny and linkage, shifter components.

I have no problems keeping the car in teh powerband on 1-2

I have a much harder time shifting 2-3 than i did with my old shifter

I like the fact that i have a hard time doing 2-3 cause it means i'll have an even harder time doing a 3-2 (initial cause of my woes) at 85 miles an hour.

The 3-4 gates a farther from the 1-2 than they were in stock.
the 5-6 are also a bit farther than the 00 stock

Its harder to be aggressive with the car cause you cant do a mindless shift (read: I have to concentrate a lot more)

At first I didnt like the new shifter... now though I like it a lot cause it forces to me think about every shift... and if I dont think It happily reminds me with the synchro grinds. This is fine in my opinion because I've been getting increasingly less of these as I drive my car.

In short. TOYOTA DID IMPROVE THE SHIFTER... they didnt acknowledge a problem with the first one b/c there was no problem.. it was simply more PRONE to mis--shifts.

Like someone said up top. Demographics play a big role... and to toyota the cost of my car has now risen to about 36 thousand instead of the 22 I paid for the car. Granted these are all final consumer prices.. But whatever they are a percentage is going to be reflected onto their bottom line.


This is my personal opinion from driving both engines with the different components.

[Black GT-S]

Originally posted by Brett


Yes Synchros will never be covered under warrenty :rolleyes:
Its kinda funny, when synchros are suppose to last ALOT more then 20 thousand miles. BTW, tell me this, you think "If you make them spin up the engine AND the gear, you'll wear em out" in 20k miles?

I know for a fact that they have been covered. Maybe your dealer didnt want to but I know someone that had them done under warrenty.

[ringthree]

Originally posted by yakkosmurf

Hundreds was the number the service writers and mechanics said when asked about it. One guy said he could replace a GTS engine and tranny in his sleep he's done it so much. These are my friends. I'm not going to ask them to pull data. I respect their professional opinions and their quantifications of what they have seen.

Yakko, you have been listening to the dealer again! If theres anything that we all have learned, it's that you NEVER EVER listen to a dealer. No matter who they are, brother, sister, husband, wife. It seems once they work for a dealership, they splice a lying/exaggeration gene into their DNA.

[oldster]

Originally posted by ringthree


Yakko, you have been listening to the dealer again! If theres anything that we all have learned, it's that you NEVER EVER listen to a dealer. No matter who they are, brother, sister, husband, wife. It seems once they work for a dealership, they splice a lying/exaggeration gene into their DNA. :D :D :D

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by ringthree


Yakko, you have been listening to the dealer again! If theres anything that we all have learned, it's that you NEVER EVER listen to a dealer. No matter who they are, brother, sister, husband, wife. It seems once they work for a dealership, they splice a lying/exaggeration gene into their DNA.
They're smart people. They know their stuff. I trust them enough to leave them my Type R for the day. I don't trust the Acura dealer that much. :D

[racinjason]

Many of you must have missed my earlier post.

"But don't by any means think well this is a Celica problem and I'll buy a WRX and forget about it. I'll say this again! This happens on all cars, makes and models and all years. Mustangs, Integras, Civics, Celicas, MR2s. They all run into this problem alot. If you race the tranny hard your more likely to break something. There are plenty occurances with syncros just being plain faulty as well. Hell they are going bad within the first 2,000 miles in the RSX's.

Proper shifting techniques decrease chances of tranny failures. And if your planning on racing. at least put some high end tranny lube to help the gears and sycros last longer."

I have seen many Eclipse, MR2, Celica (all model years), Isuzu, Subaru, Mustang, Integras, Civics. I've seen them all go bad after the owner running th snot out of the car or racing at the strip a few times. Hell my buddy had an integra that blew the sycros out in the frist two months. He's an expereinced drag racer that does this regularly. The sycros went out. I've seen many Integras trannies go south. The RSX and s2000 both have tranny and motor failures as well. And niether have been out as long as the Celica. I don't want to hear this Honda quality is better than Toyota That's BS. For every Toyota that goes bad I can find just as many Honda products. I've been in the import scene since 94 and have seen many Hondas take a crap at the track and on the street. Same with Nissans and every other make. Hell you should see how many recalls the Focus has on that. You'd flip!!!

I don't see how anyone can buy a vehicle new or used, modify it, race it on the street strip and push it to the limit or close to it, hammer on it like many of us do, and expect it to hold up for hundreds of thousands of miles without a hicup. Hell even race cars with specially prepared trannies, Motors, chassis's regularly go bad. And we expect parts, not made for normal track use but expected to survive daily use and SOME!!! misuse to survive, the constant beating we all hand out.

There maybe a couple hundred Celica's with blown motors total now. But after nearly two and a half full model years and about 25,000 sales of GT-S 6spds. Give or take. I'd bet that the dealership no matter how far reaching might have seen a grand total of 75-100 cars come across there shop with a blown motor. I know how dealer employees like to exagerate. I have friends that work at many dealers. I have seen GT 5spds in the shop with blown motors. Just last month!

The only difference that makes it seem that so many cars are dieing on us now is plain and simple. And your stairing straight at it. The internet. Before the Internet all we had to go off of was magazines and service bulletins, news reports, etc. I would not know 1/8 of the information that I do now about some of these problems. And add the fact that the only things that catch your attention are problems. I'd place money on the fact for everyone of us that has a problem there are 50 people that don't post or even know about the site that have no problems.

I get tired of hearing about this. People see a couple posts about this problem. And they think we're all doomed. Get over this. Hell if I'd have a dollar for every misshift post and blown motor post, or problem on another forum for , Integra, RSX, S2000, Eclipse, Mustang, Fucus, Sunfire, subaru I'd be a rich man. It happens to them all. If you don't beleive me then sell your Celica and buy one. I won't be upset one bit.

[Zsolt67]

Its all in the driving

24.5k miles and and no trouble :D

[oldster]

Originally posted by racinjason
Many of you must have missed my earlier post.



Excellent post, thanks. :)

[00GTS]

Originally posted by racinjason
Hell even race cars with specially prepared trannies, Motors, chassis's regularly go bad. And we expect parts, not made for normal track use but expected to survive daily use and SOME!!! misuse to survive, the constant beating we all hand out.


Or (more to the point) race drivers rebuild their sh!t all the time. You think an F1 tranny lasts 80,000 miles? Can I buy some of your crack?

-Josh

[afghan]

well put again Jason. :)

[Brett]

Ofcourse if your car is dragged every weekend it will run into problem. I dont think anyone is denying that.. We all know race cars are pushed to the limits. Then again we arn't talking about race cars. I'll admit I have raced my car. In Well moderation. I dont hardly race, but I have. not to the extent of damage done. And tell me this when they opened up my tranny, my 6th gear synchro was near gone and the teeth on the 6th gear where completly gone. Doesn't that sound the least bit odd? Most of the miles on my car are highway miles. my 6th gear is over drive, and yet its seeing the same wear as my second gear synchro. I dunno, I honestly think Toyota could have made stronger synchros. I think we can all agree stronger synchros would be nice.

[gsport]

has anybody tried redline oil? my brother drives a 90 supra turbo and races it, 1st to 2nd had a little grind unless you shifted very slowly. he posted his problem on supra digest and they mentioned redline mt-90. so he got some and put it in ran the car a little while and now no grinding. i was impressed and after a few thousand miles still smooth. i know it doesnt rev as high but it has more rotating mass so synchros have to work harder. and there made from the same material. brass i think or something like that. try it only cost about 6 bucks a quart.

[ZeroGTS]

redline mt90 eh? i hear that on EVERY other forum but ours. i think ill try some when i put the LSD in next week.

im waiting on my clutch....

[TRD Liquid Silver]

It really depends on the driver. Do you honestly think that Toyota of all companies would produce a bad tranny. These guys R&D these things before it hits production. I honestly believe it's the driver and that damn 2nd gearing. If they were able to keep it above the 2nd cam on the shift no one would be having problems. We're all driving the car like we freaking stole it and if they want to fix the problem start with the gearing of the car. As far as you wanna be Juan Pablo Montoya's double clutch sometimes and it'll help ease the stress on the tranny and rev-match it too. Doing both while downshifting will help..

Also put some Synthetic tranny fluid "Mobil" will help out a lot for all those that drive their cars like they stole it....:)

[gsport]

yo, zerogts you better check i think redline has one specifically for front drive with limited slip additive. they have a webpage .

[RACERGTS2000]

I'm sick of hearing people down there car go jump on the honda band wagon and see that an RSX BLOWS ENGINES too and Acura does not cover it I have a friend that as suffered this dilemma and now wants a celica because TOYOTA fixed my engine twice. IT IS ALL driver error when misshifting I blew my engine twice before I had 10,000 m on it. It my fault. 30000later no misshifts. Yes the synchros are weak if you power shift I do and I have had the synchros go out TOYOTA replaced them and the blown 2nd gear I had UNDER WARRANTY! TOYOTA is awesome I've messed up a few times and Toyota stil helps me So you guys need to realize like I have it probably your fault :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Brett]

Um...Sorry I;ve never blown my engine like you.. Learn to drive.

[SLOWICA]

...we need to stop going back to the GS-R for comparison... thinkk about it... how long has the b18 been out ... okay ... now how long has the zzt-23# been out... that should say it all... honda has had years to work the kinks out of its transmissions and engines, all there engines are are very similar just displacement is what seperates them... the zzt family hasnt been out half as long as hondas b series motors... so lets not compare apples to oranges...

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by gsport
yo, zerogts you better check i think redline has one specifically for front drive with limited slip additive. they have a webpage .
I know Royal Purple has a special oil for trannies with a limited slip. I'm sure Redline does too.

[chameleon]

And tell me this when they opened up my tranny, my 6th gear synchro was near gone and the teeth on the 6th gear where completly gone. Doesn't that sound the least bit odd?

Brett, thats not really odd at all. That is caused from the bad driving habit of always resting your hand on the shifter even when you are not making a shift. When you do this you are wearing the syncro's the entire time you are driving because if the weight of your hand unintentionally pull's the shifter a little the syncro's will make frictional contact with the next gear.

[Brett]

I dont rest my hand on the shifter. Usually I rest it near the e brake, or just the bottom of the steering wheel. And this is mostly highway driving.

[RACERGTS2000]

Excuse me BRETT don't start getting attitude with me and saying I can't drive I never acccused anybody that they can't drive, s**t happens it might happen to you. usually does happen to people who think they are so good. And for your info this is my first manual car so back then i sucked now I'm pretty good.

[ZeroGTS]

not rest your hand on the shifter? i always kinda lightly rest it on there....i think ill stop that...i dont put my hands weight on it tho...goodness no.

anyways, ill put in the oil in a month when my car gets EVERYTHING instaled (3 weeks about?)

ill take pics and everything for you guys.

acura sux with misshift covering.... :( ive had some friends who had bad exp's.

subaru sux too. people are stripping out 1st and second gear entirely....
i sitll think its driver error....

DO NOT DUMP THE CLUTCH. jeebus ppl....slipping the clutch is faster and clutches were DESIGNED to wear out.
my friend cam just took me in his bro's wrx (hes got a blue, his bro has silver)
its upgraded. scary fast. awesome car.

he never dumps the clutch...slips it all the way. he doesnt actually let off the clutch entirely till a lil over 4k rpm....

that car has "pants wetting acceleration"

learning to drive is the best mod you can do.
he helped me improve my shifting from 1-2 by not letting out the clutch so quick...no tirespin. he says shifting fast isnt as important as shifting smoothly with no traction loss and to slow it down a bit.

so im gonna try that if i EVER race again (cops suk here)

[Brett]

Originally posted by RACERGTS2000
Excuse me BRETT don't start getting attitude with me and saying I can't drive I never acccused anybody that they can't drive, s**t happens it might happen to you. usually does happen to people who think they are so good. And for your info this is my first manual car so back then i sucked now I'm pretty good.

What are you talking about? I have had a share of problems. I'm on a third transmision. First one synchros in 2 and 6 where gone. two weeks after they put in the 'remanufactured' Transmission in the transmission housing cracked. which is pretty messed up!

I dont see how in the world you could blow 2 engines on your celica(Unless it had to do with a bad install, if not...). Thats a sign you need an automatic, or shoulda have learned to drive a stick on another car. Just be praying god every night that you didnt have to pay for it!

[RACERGTS2000]

I am glad I didn't pay for it of course. And I know how I shifted wrong and corrected it an haven't came close to messing up in 30,000 miles. The second engine how ever could of been the dealers fault because a bolt backed into my timing chain and blew all 16 valves. The only reason i thought it was my fault was that i went to second gear when I ment 4th then caught myself when I just started to let the clutch out the engine started to rev but didn't make a extremely loud wineeeeeee like it didn't when I knew it was my fault. Maybe it wasn't my fault after all!

[simphmerj]

Originally posted by SLOWICA
...we need to stop going back to the GS-R for comparison... thinkk about it... how long has the b18 been out ... okay ... now how long has the zzt-23# been out... that should say it all... honda has had years to work the kinks out of its transmissions and engines, all there engines are are very similar just displacement is what seperates them... the zzt family hasnt been out half as long as hondas b series motors... so lets not compare apples to oranges...

uh....they are both high revving high specific output undersquare 1.8 liter 4 cylinder double overhead camshaft aluminum block aluminum head FF compact sporty car w/ young guy demographic engines and both have variable lift systems. if you can't compare these 2 engines, then you can't compare ANY engines.

and the engine code is 2ZZ-GE mr. smartypants

P.S. oh yeah, ones chain driven, and one's belt driven, and they have 1.5 points different of compression (which is probably the 10 hp difference), the 2ZZ has variable timing on the intake cam, and they rotate in different directions so i know they're not EXACTLY the same. i'm refering of course to the 2ZZ and the B18C1

[SLOWICA]

simkphmerj...we dont seem to be on the same page here... i wasnt talking about the engine code when i posted ZZT-23#... thats the body code... and the reason i used a pound (#) sign is so that i could include both cars both the GT ZZT-230 and the GT-S ZZT-231...

P.S. thats quite a list of differences... besides i was talking about time frame of the cars being out... honda has been dealing with variable valve timing since say the release of the NSX and 1.7 b17... and Toyota just stuck its head in the game with the naturally aspirated 2JZ-GE JZA80 so there... and thats what i meant by that...
P.S. oh yeah, ones chain driven, and one's belt driven, and they have 1.5 points different of compression (which is probably the 10 hp difference), the 2ZZ has variable timing on the intake cam, and they rotate in different directions so i know they're not EXACTLY the same. i'm refering of course to the 2ZZ and the B18C1
P.S. and just so you know ... the 1.5 points in compression isn't the reason why the 2ZZ-GE has 10 more ponies... its because of the mechanics behind the variable valve timing that is DIFFERNT in the Celica...

[LimpMasterJ]

1. NOT ALL 6 SPD GT-S'S HAVE THE SAME ENGAGEMENT POINT FOR THEIR CLUTCH- A friend and I bold have a 2000 GT-S 6spd. He thought his syncros were going bad, kept complaining about gear grinding. His clutch engages a lot closer to the floor than mine. I drove it and didn't grind at all, his timing was just a little off. Six months later, after he learned how to time it all, he's had no tranny problems.

2. Back in the summer my gears were grinding also, thought it was the syncros for sure, changed my tranny fluid to Redline synthetic oil, grinding is gone. The stock fluid really doesn't like hot, humid days.

[Gaps]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by yakkosmurf
[B]
I don't know what dealer his mechanic works at, but my bro works at Sterling McCall Toyota and they have seen hundreds of GTS's with blown engines and tranny


Hundreds? How many hundred would that be? You gotta back this one up.

[yakkosmurf]

I'm sure it's between one and three hundred. They didn't say exactly. I'll see if I can find some better numbers from them during the Christmas break before I go on vacation. My brother won't be working during Christmas since we're going somewhere this year.

[afghan]

Sterling Toyota was the place I tried to order parts and was told they were in stock and sent them, then two weeks later they were waiting to arrive.

Hundreds of motors and trannys! What kind of idiot are you?

They have a great reputation and I would believe everything they tell you.

I have some prime land to sell to you all in Florida real cheap!

My brothers next door neighbor works for Toyota(not a dealer or a mechanic). Enough said.

[plush]

Originally posted by yakkosmurf

I've taken my Type R over there for service, and the other service advisors tell me I made the right choice choosing the Type R over the GTS. One of the senior guys said, "Honda sure knows how to make a strong engine."

.

Ha ha! It's funny you mentioned that because I work at a used car dealership and we got in a Type R with a f***ed up tranny - gears were all whacked! We ended up fixing it but the damn car was costing us too much money and no one was even interested in buying the car so we ended up wholesaleing the thing. We had that car for the longest time too. It was a 2000 and had about 12,000 miles on it. Y'see, Hondas aren't exactly bulletproof either...

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by afghan
Sterling Toyota was the place I tried to order parts and was told they were in stock and sent them, then two weeks later they were waiting to arrive.

Hundreds of motors and trannys! What kind of idiot are you?

They have a great reputation and I would believe everything they tell you.

I have some prime land to sell to you all in Florida real cheap!

My brothers next door neighbor works for Toyota(not a dealer or a mechanic). Enough said.
Sorry your parts took so long. How does one late part order affect this discussion? You are talking about stuff irrelevant to the topic.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by plush


Y'see, Hondas aren't exactly bulletproof either...
You will never hear me say they are. I know of a few Rs that had clutches break after not too many miles. They were covered under warranty. Even the one that happened at the road course. I will be the first to point out that most of these problems are because of driver stupidity and people not paying attention to what they are doing. But it's hard for me to completely dismiss some mechanical problems after I almost lost my best friend when his Celica caught fire while coasting off of a freeway ramp in 6th gear.

[skyrat]

I just had my automatic transmission fixed here at Gullo in Conroe. I own a 2001 Celica GT with about 14,400 miles on it. The check engine light came on about a week ago. The codes from the computer showed that one or more of the electronics were not working properly. The valvebody was replaced under warranty and the car is driving fine. It was driving reasonably well before the light came on but had a slight hesitation when shifting gears.

The problem with the six speed syncros according to a mechanic that I talked to is a spring problem that Toyota knows about and has a service bulletin out on.

Other people who are on this forum who own GTS's complained about blown engines etc. It seems that when the GTS engine is pushed hard it has a tendancy to throw timing chains whih isn't good.

As far as your syncro problem goes, I talked to Fred Haas and they have done 4 GTS's in one shift including a tranny replacement.

Chris

[Auto[BoT]_GTS]

DRIVE YOUR CAR HARD EXPECT **** TO BREAK PLAIN AND SIMPLE