Gt-s Vs. Rsx Type S

[RACERGTS2000]

Hello guys! I'm new to this forum and thought I would start of with a racing story. It happened on a Saturday night on the local cruisin' strip. About 45 cars and I went to an industrial parkway and basically did our on version of Fast and the Furious. I didn' t get to race there because the cops came and everybody ran like hell (there is almost nothing cooler than seeing 45 cars running from the law , including a 530 hp RX-7 which left all of us in the dust ) But all of that is beside the point now to my story. On the trip back I see my buddy and his S2000 playing around with a type S ( S2000 won of course ). My turn right, wrong. I didn' t want to race because when everybody ran back to their cars ( when runnig from the cops ) I some how picked up 3 more passengers needless to say my Celi was heavy as hell. I was out of luck in avoiding a confrintation the Type S saw me and slowed down so he could see the back of my car to his suprise he didn't see what he wanted to see my car is shaved ( GT or GT-S that is the question ) . So all of a sudden I hear him downshift "Damn!" So i downshift we were at 45 miles an hour beside each other he takes off, we are beside each other through second. We shift, still beside each other. Ok I didn't mention that we are on a 5 lane road with a turning lane in the middle of two lanes on each side. As I'm topping third I start to pull slightly. I'm also topping a hill and see a SVT in my lane minding his own business I need to do something and it isn't stopping so I sling the car out into the turning lane pass the Cobra and sling back into the lane after doing that I'm somehow a half a car length in front of the RSX. then I shift in to fifth I take over his lane. We slow down, he screams out the window " What the hell do you have done?" I say " Just I/E". He said " Holy S**T Man Celicas deserve more respect than they get , they are pretty mean." Then we went on our seperate ways. Sorry it was so long I kind of like telling that story hope you enjoyed it.

[Blastofo]

Good kill, bro!

Do you know if the type S was stock or not?

People look at the stats and paper race and most think the type s is significantly faster than the gt-s. But we all know its a drivers race.

[RACERGTS2000]

It was stock and he had one guy in the car. The week after that I seen him in a parking lot on the crusin' strip and he showed me he bought a injen cold air. We didn't race because there were too many cops around but we will soon and we'll try it with drivers only.

[larryd]

good kill..

[yakkosmurf]

But still...the RSX guys think they should pull on the Celica all day long. I guess we'll see what happens after the intake.

[funk01gts]

Very animated story :)

[Wrekt]

ooof, it'll be oh so close...do everything to yoru advantage - lower tire pressure...low amount of fuel...whatever else. That Injen short ram adds an additional 18 horses to the wheels on the RSX-S according to injen's dyno...good luck! keep it safe!!! My cousin just got into an accident in his 3000 gt.

Phil

[Honda~Power!]

Originally posted by yakkosmurf
But still...the RSX guys think they should pull on the Celica all day long. I guess we'll see what happens after the intake.

they can and they still will after the intake, but it will be close.

[RACERGTS2000]

i'm thinking it's going to be like i'm racing another celica and he will not pull away I had over 600 lbs. of people in my car and beat him and he admitted it.

[Honda~Power!]

well, i would like to see a race like this, but you have to remember the rsx has the hp/torque advantage. The only thing that's giving u a chance is the stock tires

[RACERGTS2000]

Yes as far as torque and HP the RSX has the advantage not much on the torgue side but as far as weight and aerodynamics which are just as important the celica wins.

[Honda~Power!]

are you sure aerodynamics?? the RSX appears to be much more aerodynamic that the celica. The celica has all those angles and that spoiler. From what i understand, the hoodscoop is also only cosmetic, which would just create drag.

The rsx is perfectly smooth

And regarding wight, i dont think the 100lbs difference makes up
for the20hp advantage.

[RACERGTS2000]

The celica Weighs 2500lbs with manual and has a Co. Drag of .32 the Rsx Type S weighs 2760 as a manual and has aco. Drag of .34!

[Honda~Power!]

Originally posted by RACERGTS2000
The celica Weighs 2500lbs with manual and has a Co. Drag of .32 the Rsx Type S weighs 2760 as a manual and has aco. Drag of .34!

What!?! are you sure?? You have to admit though, from looking at them, the celica looks like it is less arodynamic, agreed?

[RACERGTS2000]

True the RSX looks a bit more aerodynamic but i'm a major stat maniac and study this s**t alot but when it comes down to it. it"s going to be a driver's race. I'll let you Know honda~power how the race goes I'll probably see him tommorrow night.

[Kit99bar]

what's the fastest time for a modd'd RSX-S,
what times you got in your RSX-s and waht's a good
time for a average driver in the 1/4?

Originally posted by Honda~Power!


they can and they still will after the intake, but it will be close.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by Honda~Power!
well, i would like to see a race like this, but you have to remember the rsx has the hp/torque advantage. The only thing that's giving u a chance is the stock tires
You guys love to forget to mention that 200+ pound weight difference. Just mention your car's strengths, huh? Why is the RSX-S faster than the Prelude despite the Prelude having more torque? I'm just trying to play your game.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by Honda~Power!
are you sure aerodynamics?? the RSX appears to be much more aerodynamic that the celica. The celica has all those angles and that spoiler. From what i understand, the hoodscoop is also only cosmetic, which would just create drag.

The rsx is perfectly smooth

And regarding wight, i dont think the 100lbs difference makes up
for the20hp advantage.
You don't seem to know what it takes to calculate a drag coefficient. Unless you do, then you can't just look at two cars and know which one will be more aerodynamic.

[majesty]

why all the bickering? keep it simple, its a drivers race all the way. i could beat a damn viper in my rsx-s if the driver sucked thats all that matters, the driver!

[Wrekt]

no one can suck that much =)

[majesty]

i sucked a big cock the first day i got my type s, and if the viper driver just got it and it was his/her first manual, then who knows...but oh well.....

[Nasty N8]

Hey RACERGTS2000,
I'm in North Cackalacky too. What area were these races held at? I've only heard about one organized illegal drag race since I've been here and it was very hush hush. I had to BS for about three hours with this big group of people before he finally led us in small groups to the location. It was a good spot though, didn't get busted up or anything. I'm sure it's not too smart to say where exactly they're going to be but PM me in you know about anymore. I love stuff like that. Nice kill by the way.

Thanks
Nate

[EuGeNiLe GTS]

some very good points here.. but it is totally a drivers race.. the extra weight on the rsx-s evens out the hp/torque from the gts.. and other little things.. look at the prelude no?
i wonder how a race would be like on a roll.. and see who will pull on the freeway..

but forreals folks.. its all driver..

at the street races here in the bay.. TriPPin here on nco raced an rsx-s.. i flagged the race.. and oh boy did trippin's gts smoke that rsx-s.. not once.. but twice.. the owner was pissed and you could see it.. oh well.. he should learn how to drive his car.. then maybe he wont lose by so many car lenghts.. heh jk.

[Omni]

Originally posted by majesty
i sucked a big cock the first day i got my type s, and if the viper driver just got it and it was his/her first manual, then who knows...but oh well.....

Whoa there we dont need to know you're personal life... hehe j/k :D

[Maelfyn]

I don't care what any of you bitches say. Mod for mod every step of the way a GT-S will beat a RSX-S. Jesus Christ I practically beat a RSX-S.

Btw this forum sucks. Needs more flamin trolls like myself. This topic is good for at least 10 pages on clubrsx.

[Maelfyn]

There are FOUR factors that determine the speed of a car. Not just the whp. A cookie to whoever names the other three. Actually.. you could argue there are five but I'll stick to the basics.

[ishido]

Originally posted by Honda~Power!


What!?! are you sure?? You have to admit though, from looking at them, the celica looks like it is less arodynamic, agreed?

Doesn't matter what looks more aerodynamic, what matters is what izzz aerodynamic. Personally I don't think the RSX looked all that aerodynamic. Most cars don't get better than .31-.32 drag anyhow.

"And regarding wight, i dont think the 100lbs difference makes up
for the20hp advantage. "

In case you didn't read that post clearly, there is a 260 lb difference, not 100 lbs. There IS a big difference in weight. Any racer will tell you that losing weight is easier than gaining HP. I sure as hell notice a difference in acceleration when a couple extra people are in my car.

[Batoutahell]

Originally posted by Maelfyn
There are FOUR factors that determine the speed of a car. Not just the whp. A cookie to whoever names the other three. Actually.. you could argue there are five but I'll stick to the basics.

I'm not sure what you mean by "speed" (velocity? acceleration?). But in any event, if I was to guess a few of the four factors, "whp" wouldn't be one of them. Horsepower is nothing more than a mathematical function of torque. I'd be willing to bet that if you name the "four and only four" factors, I'd be able to name at least one more factor that is relevant to a car's "speed." I'm intrigued, please share.

[Kit99bar]

Maelfyn, don't let those guys at clubrsx get to you. whenver I go there, read all those stupid posts, It gets really irritating, but I just said screw them.

Originally posted by Maelfyn
I don't care what any of you bitches say. Mod for mod every step of the way a GT-S will beat a RSX-S. Jesus Christ I practically beat a RSX-S.

Btw this forum sucks. Needs more flamin trolls like myself. This topic is good for at least 10 pages on clubrsx.

[djm221]

Originally posted by Batoutahell


I'm not sure what you mean by "speed" (velocity? acceleration?). But in any event, if I was to guess a few of the four factors, "whp" wouldn't be one of them. Horsepower is nothing more than a mathematical function of torque. I'd be willing to bet that if you name the "four and only four" factors, I'd be able to name at least one more factor that is relevant to a car's "speed." I'm intrigued, please share.
So, whp, which is a function of torque, is not important in acceleration?? So the engine is meaningless when it comes to accelerating a car... hmm, I did not know that. :rolleyes:

[majesty]

as i see it, all forums online that are for a specific car are always biased towards the car that its about. for example newcelica and clubrsx. i figure all of you celica guys believe your car is faster and lots of rsx guys think the rsx is faster, but again drivers race. one thing though on www.clubrsx.com there is a post in the forum RSX Vs All of a GTS vs RSX-S race, read it, its posted by a celica driver if im correct another good thing to read. if my post doesnt make sense sorry, i havent slept in ages...and its late, 9:30pm

[simphmerj]

Originally posted by RACERGTS2000
As I'm topping third I start to pull slightly. I'm also topping a hill and see a SVT in my lane minding his own business I need to do something and it isn't stopping so I sling the car out into the turning lane pass the Cobra and sling back into the lane after doing that I'm somehow a half a car length in front of the RSX. then I shift in to fifth I take over his lane.

ok, so you're topping 3rd gear and shifting to 4th (3rd tops at approx 82 mph). so your doing 80 mph on a road w/ a center turn lane??:shocked :eek: and then you weave into a turn only lane to pass another vehicle? if i saw some retard do something stupid like that, i'd just slow down...he probably wasn't as crazy as you


also, about the rsx vs. celica, i personally believe that the celica is underated hp wise. there have been plenty of stock GTS's dyno @ 160+ to the wheels (such as SCC's project car). 15% drivetrain losses would mean it should make approximately 153.

and hondapower, got any pics of your NSX? i find it a little hard to swallow that someone w/ a turbo NSX would go spouting off ignorant things like "but the RSX looks more aerodynamic don't you think?"; nor do i think that someone w/ a turbo NSX would even sit around posting on a Celica page. and last time i checked JR only did superchargers, although i found this @ JR.com --> "Jackson Racing had been building turbocharged Hondas since 1979." however, they have no product listings for turbos. oh and the hood scoop is functional

allan

[RACERGTS2000]

Yes I would admit I'm a little crazy and probably wouldn't do it again but he didn't let off I asked. This guy isn't that sane either I've watched him mess with alot of people on crowded streets.

[maztur]

I love both cars so I am not biased. Also, I technically own a Civic but I am in the market for a MR2 (still keeping the Civic). That being said, I am on BOTH of your sides!

One thing: aerodynamics has nothing to do with winning a race unless you guys plan to see who can go the fastest in top gear (which is 6th gear in this situation). Aerodynamics has to do with TOP speed and not really a factor of who gets to the 1/4mile mark faster.

I strongly believe in a driver race in this one. Here's a suggestion: if you two are friends and completely trust each other, then you two can race and then switch cars. However, it seems as if he's a stranger and I wouldn't let him touch my baby either. :D

[RedNOSceli]

Originally posted by Maelfyn
There are FOUR factors that determine the speed of a car. Not just the whp. A cookie to whoever names the other three. Actually.. you could argue there are five but I'll stick to the basics.


1.) Power(HP/Torque)
2.) Mass(Weight)
3.) gearing
4.) Rolling Friction
5.) Drag(Air Resistance)- In a vacume this would have no effect, so this may be the 5th that you could argue...

Am I close? Im not a Physics Major or anything, but I think it sounds good...

BTW..Ive seen a couple RSX-S' run mid/low 15's at the track while I was pulling mid High 14's..Im not saying celicas are faster, but that's just what ive seen out here in Phx

[Kit99bar]

yup
I dont' think anyone at clubrsx has gotten lower than 15.1


Originally posted by RedNOSceli

BTW..Ive seen a couple RSX-S' run mid/low 15's at the track while I was pulling mid High 14's..Im not saying celicas are faster, but that's just what ive seen out here in Phx

[oldster]

Originally posted by maztur
[B]
One thing: aerodynamics has nothing to do with winning a race unless you guys plan to see who can go the fastest in top gear (which is 6th gear in this situation). Aerodynamics has to do with TOP speed and not really a factor of who gets to the 1/4mile mark faster.

]

Stick your hand out the window at 60, then tell me that like powered cars would not be effected by different drag coefficients in a drag race.

[RedNOSceli]

Originally posted by maztur


One thing: aerodynamics has nothing to do with winning a race unless you guys plan to see who can go the fastest in top gear (which is 6th gear in this situation). Aerodynamics has to do with TOP speed and not really a factor of who gets to the 1/4mile mark faster.



Not to be a complete jerk, but that is the most ignorant statement ive heard in quite a while, I mean really, where do you come up with this?

[larryd]

well aerodynamics will play a role throughout the entire race.. but it really wont make a sufficient difference until high speeds which could happen in 1/4 mile with like funny cars and what not..

[maztur]

Originally posted by larryd
well aerodynamics will play a role throughout the entire race.. but it really wont make a sufficient difference until high speeds which could happen in 1/4 mile with like funny cars and what not..

Spoken like a man who knows his sh1t.

Coefficient of drag doesn't matter much UNTIL high speeds. C'mon, I know you guys love your cars and all, but please stick to facts. Your ignorant minds sway you towards 'riceboy.'

Want a real world example? Go drive a SVT Lightning or talk to someone who owns/races one. That is a 13sec truck, buddy. But guess what? A Mustang GT can take it top end, and you want to know why? A BIG FAT ROCK OF A TRUCK CAN'T GO TOO FAST WHEN ALL THAT DAMN WIND IS AGAINST IT.

I advise you guys to pick up a book and read once in a while. There was a great ARTICLE in one of the older SCC about Coefficient of Drag. There are even pictures, wow!

:rolleyes:

[oldster]

Originally posted by maztur


Spoken like a man who knows his sh1t.

Coefficient of drag doesn't matter much UNTIL high speeds. C'mon, I know you guys love your cars and all, but please stick to facts. Your ignorant minds sway you towards 'riceboy.'

Want a real world example? Go drive a SVT Lightning or talk to someone who owns/races one. That is a 13sec truck, buddy. But guess what? A Mustang GT can take it top end, and you want to know why? A BIG FAT ROCK OF A TRUCK CAN'T GO TOO FAST WHEN ALL THAT DAMN WIND IS AGAINST IT.

I advise you guys to pick up a book and read once in a while. There was a great ARTICLE in one of the older SCC about Coefficient of Drag. There are even pictures, wow!

:rolleyes:

You really are a dumb sh!t and Larry is right there with you. The aerodynamics of a car have an immediate impact and increase with speed. As I said before, take two cars with the same horsepower, lets give them 150 each (take them out of Larry's funny car realm), shape one like a box and the other like a wedge and do you want to guess who will win in a 1/4. Suggest you read up on general physics. :mad:

[maztur]

If I am such a dumb sh1t, then who was the one to resort to idiotic, childish name calling?

Let's take your example: If the two cars do not trap very high speeds in the 1/4mile, then it can be safe to assume that both will finish at the same time given no driver error.

Also, if you refer to the original topic (given you read this post), then you realize that it refers to the Toyota Celica and Acura RSX. The guys on this thread were throwing around the coefficient of drag as if it was a very good determination factor to winning a race (don't deny it, don't make me quote you). We are talking about 2 DIFFERENT cars with DIFFERENT power, torque, etc etc. In any given street race and the typical street car 1/4 mile race, the coefficient of drag is so negligible that it can be excluded.

If guys think that the coefficient of drag is such a large factor, then imagine this: You have a car. It has a given coefficient of drag. You bought coilovers. You drop the car 4". Do you agree that the coefficient of drag is reduced? Now, do you actually think that you can go faster to the 1320 mark given all other variables equal?

[larryd]

damn oldster i dont claim to be a genius.. but calling me a dumb **** becuz of my opinion on this isnt very nice ya think?

[oldster]

Originally posted by maztur
If I am such a dumb sh1t, then who was the one to resort to idiotic, childish name calling?

Let's take your example: If the two cars do not trap very high speeds in the 1/4mile, then it can be safe to assume that both will finish at the same time given no driver error.

Also, if you refer to the original topic (given you read this post), then you realize that it refers to the Toyota Celica and Acura RSX. The guys on this thread were throwing around the coefficient of drag as if it was a very good determination factor to winning a race (don't deny it, don't make me quote you). We are talking about 2 DIFFERENT cars with DIFFERENT power, torque, etc etc. In any given street race and the typical street car 1/4 mile race, the coefficient of drag is so negligible that it can be excluded.

If guys think that the coefficient of drag is such a large factor, then imagine this: You have a car. It has a given coefficient of drag. You bought coilovers. You drop the car 4". Do you agree that the coefficient of drag is reduced? Now, do you actually think that you can go faster to the 1320 mark given all other variables equal?

I apologize to both you and Larry for the name calling. Now back to the discussion. Your position is that given my example of two cars with 150HP each (we'll also make them the same weight, trans, gearing etc.) will finish the quarter mile in the same time regardless of the shape. I disagree given the simple physics involved, one is a box and the other a wedge. At virtually any MPH the wind resistance on the box will require more HP to push it than the wedge and it will increase with speed.

In response to your other comment, I had indeed read the entire thread. My intitial comment made to you was based on your assertion and that alone. Please find for me in that comment any mention of the GT-S or RSX. You are trying to refine your argument as you go along, don't make me quote you, again.

"One thing: aerodynamics has nothing to do with winning a race unless you guys plan to see who can go the fastest in top gear (which is 6th gear in this situation). Aerodynamics has to do with TOP speed and not really a factor of who gets to the 1/4mile mark faster."

PS - If a car was set up perfectly for the quarter mile then it would be geared to achieve maximum speed and rpm as it goes through the traps.

[Maelfyn]

Aerodynamics will be a factor because at higher speeds it acts like weight.

The four I were thinking of primarily are aerodynamics, horsepower (at the wheels of course), weight, and gearing. RedNOS wins :) I don't think rolling friction is significant since it's equal on most cars. Unless your car uses skis. :D

[Maelfyn]

Originally posted by Batoutahell
I'm not sure what you mean by "speed" (velocity? acceleration?). But in any event, if I was to guess a few of the four factors, "whp" wouldn't be one of them. Horsepower is nothing more than a mathematical function of torque. I'd be willing to bet that if you name the "four and only four" factors, I'd be able to name at least one more factor that is relevant to a car's "speed." I'm intrigued, please share.

Okay asshole. Whatever. After you pull your head out of your ass I'll explain it to you using one syllable words. And I never said "four and only four". I even said there are arguably five.

[larryd]

Originally posted by oldster


I apologize to both you and Larry for the name calling. Now back to the discussion. Your position is that given my example of two cars with 150HP each (we'll also make them the same weight, trans, gearing etc.) will finish the quarter mile in the same time regardless of the shape. I disagree given the simple physics involved, one is a box and the other a wedge. At virtually any MPH the wind resistance on the box will require more HP to push it than the wedge and it will increase with speed.

In response to your other comment, I had indeed read the entire thread. My intitial comment made to you was based on your assertion and that alone. Please find for me in that comment any mention of the GT-S or RSX. You are trying to refine your argument as you go along, don't make me quote you, again.

"One thing: aerodynamics has nothing to do with winning a race unless you guys plan to see who can go the fastest in top gear (which is 6th gear in this situation). Aerodynamics has to do with TOP speed and not really a factor of who gets to the 1/4mile mark faster."

PS - If a car was set up perfectly for the quarter mile then it would be geared to achieve maximum speed and rpm as it goes through the traps.

I agree that given the same car with different aerodynamics it wold come into play.. but i dont know the exact equation or how much exactly.. i just got caught in the middle of this discussion ;)

[Chui]

Drag Forces increase geometrically with increase of vehicle speed. It can be determined empirically and experimentally. Back in 1989 or so R&T had an excellent article in which they laid out equations for same. For those interested and have back issues it was an issue with the then-new Corvette platform versus the Ferrari 328 GTBi Quattrovalvole and the Porsche 911 Carrera.

The bottom line, as someone has already mentioned, is that it [Coefficent of Drag] is, in fact, relevant. However, it may not be as large a factor as the skill/consistency of the two amateur drivers. There are empirical formulae for 1/4 mile acceleration with drag coefficient as a variable...

[larryd]

chui.. your alive??