420Unison
11-19-2002, 12:01 PM
ARBITRATION: Me vs. Toyota
Case: CA Lemon Law
2000 Toyota Celica GT-S (purchased 08/00)
26,489 Miles
Well, it happened today. Finally the "technician" came from the Toyota factory today and we met with a 3rd party arbitrator. Brief history of my car includes almost all the TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) problems along with 2 blown motors and a replaced tranny. My valves were also bent a few times, but the motor itself was only replaced once. The technician already had my paperwork history, so he already knew that i had a lot of previous problems. To be straight up with u guys, yes i modified my celi horsepower-wise, and yes i occasionally do take it up to redline. i think that was the reason why warranties exist though. when i buy a car and i have problems, i shouldnt keep goin back to fix the same problem, right? the first blown motor was caused by the infamous misshift (6-4?....nope, went into 2nd). the dealership took care of it (new motor and new tranny). i didnt ask for a new tranny, but im figuring that they knew that there was a TSB on it and that it might be a good idea to eliminate any chance of another misshift. anywayz, the dealership kept promising me completion dates, but they ended up just pushing it back. after that, it was just one problem after another (belt tensioner squeak, throttle stutter, etc), all confirmed as problems to be covered under warranty by the dealership. then the motor blew again. dealership says its just bent valves. TOOK THREE FREAKING MONTHS. at first they said it would take a coupla weeks cuz they needed to order the parts. i call back after a month asking y they didnt call me to tell me it was done. they say that they have to have it shipped from japan and that they are on backorder. i ask them for a rental car to use in the meanwhile (seeing how my car was in and out of there for the past 4-5 months). the guy says that he wouldn't give me a rental even if my mom was a parapalegic. WTF?!?!?!??!? now he's talking about my family?!??! wut if i was 45, married with children and barely supporting my family. i would've bought a brand new toyota, only to not be able to use it for nearly half a year due to mechanical failure covered by the warranty. so no car and no rental. i wait another month....... i call back and the parts STILL have not arrived (BS BS BS). i ask to talk to the service manager and i tell him about my situation and about the service guy who talked about my mom being a parapalegic (which she's not, but he was talking smack). the manager tells me that he will call me back after he talks with the guy (Dane from Hamer Toyota). i get a call back in 5 min and its the manager telling me to go to HORIZON rental car to pick up a rental that they would pay for. i get dropped off there only to find that they (HAMER TOYOTA) tried to give me a facking base model DAEWOO LANOS. i would die before driving the car, and i think the guy working there could tell too, cuz he said that he would get me a diff car (turned out to be a '00 Corolla S). not the best rental in the world, but its not a lanos. 4 weeks after having the rental they say my car is finished. i go back and pick it up, and it seems to be problem free. i drove it VERY carefully after that. I 5#it u not, after the celi being in the dealership for over 6 months and the crap i had to deal with trying to get it back, i was in NO hurry to take the car back there. after about 600 GRANNY-STYLE driven miles, while i was on a local road, low RPMs and MPH, the throttle became almost non-responsive and the motor started rumbling (eerily similar to the last 2 times my engine blew/bent valves). the engine would shut off on its own, and i would be able to restart it, but the motor would still shake violently at idle. Loud CLACKING noises as well (not knocking or pinging, ACTUAL LOUD CLACKING). oil is still at a good level, and everything SEEMED to be in place (to the extent to which i knew the car). i was tired of this bullcrap so i filled out an arbitration/dispute settlement form. after a few weeks and several phone calls later we get to today. the meeting with the technician and the arbritrator went horribly. first off my 1st generation Korean parents were there (c'mon, im 20 years old and they paid for the car), and they hardly speak any english (my dad kept trying to talk, but only succeeded in makin my case look worse). second of all, the arbirtrator (the guy makin the actual AND final decision), also barely spoke English. i could honestly BARELY make out what he was explaining, and when he DID speak, he kept repeating himself over and over like even HE didn't kno what he was talking about. third of all, the toyota factory guy was a complete ****. i think it was because we were all meeting at Hamer, and he had the opportunity to speak with the service people there. he told me that he had spoke to them about my car and that they had remembered me (thats trouble cuz i had argued with them a few times, but with good and probable cause). the factory guy also told me that toyota decided to decline my offer for a refund (which i think they always do, unless in extreme cases). he also told me that if the current problem is due to reckless driving (ie, downshifting at high speeds) or modified parts, that it would void the warranty. he also told me that if i DO return the car that i would need to take off any modified parts that dont belong in the car. well, i took my motorcycle to go to the meeting, so there was no way he could've seen my car. at this point im pretty sure in his conversation with Dane, he probably was told that i had a modified rice rocket and that i only live for reckless driving, high speeds, and illegal street races. well, we talk for a little while longer (i was expecting to go into technicalities and explaining exact problems with the car), but it seemed pretty fruitless with the arbitrator barely understanding English and the "factory technician" knowing less than i did. well it got to the point where they wanted to see the car. i lead them back to my house slowly (which isnt easy on a sportbike), and they take a look at the celi. i kept the interior/exterior in immaculate shape, but was a little weathered on the outside, cuz it was sitting outside for a couple months. they asked me to start it and it wouldnt even turn over. they help me jumpstart it, so i charge the battery for a few min and try again. it turned over this time, but didnt start. tried a few more times, and nothing. the factory guy says that he'll need to have the car towed to a dealership to completely diassemble the engine to diagnose the problem (ie, to see if the problem was my fault or a mechanical failure). he said that if it WAS my fault, that the problem was non-warrantable. his example was that if it WAS bent valves that it would've been my fault cuz of reckless driving and that it only occurs when high pressure is put on them. well, pretty much its gonna cost me around $2,000 for a toyota dealership or the factory to completely diassemble and reassemble my motor and diagnose the problem. if it WAS in fact my fault, i would be stuck with that FAT bill. i dont kno exactly how or when this would happen because the arbitrator told me to await his decision which should arrive by mail in 5-10 days. then i could choose to accept his offer of settlement between myself and TOYOTA according to all the state of CA laws, or to decline it. sorry this post is so damn long, but i wanted to give u guys the heads up. if any of u guys are goin through the same crap right now, then i hope this helps somewhat. if any of u guys already went through this, can i get some feedback on wut goes on and wut chance (if any) that i have of getting a good amount of my money back? thanx for the help guys
420Unison - RIP '00 Celica
'01 Suzuki GSX-R, 600
www.gixxer.com - dJt3xtbook
Case: CA Lemon Law
2000 Toyota Celica GT-S (purchased 08/00)
26,489 Miles
Well, it happened today. Finally the "technician" came from the Toyota factory today and we met with a 3rd party arbitrator. Brief history of my car includes almost all the TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) problems along with 2 blown motors and a replaced tranny. My valves were also bent a few times, but the motor itself was only replaced once. The technician already had my paperwork history, so he already knew that i had a lot of previous problems. To be straight up with u guys, yes i modified my celi horsepower-wise, and yes i occasionally do take it up to redline. i think that was the reason why warranties exist though. when i buy a car and i have problems, i shouldnt keep goin back to fix the same problem, right? the first blown motor was caused by the infamous misshift (6-4?....nope, went into 2nd). the dealership took care of it (new motor and new tranny). i didnt ask for a new tranny, but im figuring that they knew that there was a TSB on it and that it might be a good idea to eliminate any chance of another misshift. anywayz, the dealership kept promising me completion dates, but they ended up just pushing it back. after that, it was just one problem after another (belt tensioner squeak, throttle stutter, etc), all confirmed as problems to be covered under warranty by the dealership. then the motor blew again. dealership says its just bent valves. TOOK THREE FREAKING MONTHS. at first they said it would take a coupla weeks cuz they needed to order the parts. i call back after a month asking y they didnt call me to tell me it was done. they say that they have to have it shipped from japan and that they are on backorder. i ask them for a rental car to use in the meanwhile (seeing how my car was in and out of there for the past 4-5 months). the guy says that he wouldn't give me a rental even if my mom was a parapalegic. WTF?!?!?!??!? now he's talking about my family?!??! wut if i was 45, married with children and barely supporting my family. i would've bought a brand new toyota, only to not be able to use it for nearly half a year due to mechanical failure covered by the warranty. so no car and no rental. i wait another month....... i call back and the parts STILL have not arrived (BS BS BS). i ask to talk to the service manager and i tell him about my situation and about the service guy who talked about my mom being a parapalegic (which she's not, but he was talking smack). the manager tells me that he will call me back after he talks with the guy (Dane from Hamer Toyota). i get a call back in 5 min and its the manager telling me to go to HORIZON rental car to pick up a rental that they would pay for. i get dropped off there only to find that they (HAMER TOYOTA) tried to give me a facking base model DAEWOO LANOS. i would die before driving the car, and i think the guy working there could tell too, cuz he said that he would get me a diff car (turned out to be a '00 Corolla S). not the best rental in the world, but its not a lanos. 4 weeks after having the rental they say my car is finished. i go back and pick it up, and it seems to be problem free. i drove it VERY carefully after that. I 5#it u not, after the celi being in the dealership for over 6 months and the crap i had to deal with trying to get it back, i was in NO hurry to take the car back there. after about 600 GRANNY-STYLE driven miles, while i was on a local road, low RPMs and MPH, the throttle became almost non-responsive and the motor started rumbling (eerily similar to the last 2 times my engine blew/bent valves). the engine would shut off on its own, and i would be able to restart it, but the motor would still shake violently at idle. Loud CLACKING noises as well (not knocking or pinging, ACTUAL LOUD CLACKING). oil is still at a good level, and everything SEEMED to be in place (to the extent to which i knew the car). i was tired of this bullcrap so i filled out an arbitration/dispute settlement form. after a few weeks and several phone calls later we get to today. the meeting with the technician and the arbritrator went horribly. first off my 1st generation Korean parents were there (c'mon, im 20 years old and they paid for the car), and they hardly speak any english (my dad kept trying to talk, but only succeeded in makin my case look worse). second of all, the arbirtrator (the guy makin the actual AND final decision), also barely spoke English. i could honestly BARELY make out what he was explaining, and when he DID speak, he kept repeating himself over and over like even HE didn't kno what he was talking about. third of all, the toyota factory guy was a complete ****. i think it was because we were all meeting at Hamer, and he had the opportunity to speak with the service people there. he told me that he had spoke to them about my car and that they had remembered me (thats trouble cuz i had argued with them a few times, but with good and probable cause). the factory guy also told me that toyota decided to decline my offer for a refund (which i think they always do, unless in extreme cases). he also told me that if the current problem is due to reckless driving (ie, downshifting at high speeds) or modified parts, that it would void the warranty. he also told me that if i DO return the car that i would need to take off any modified parts that dont belong in the car. well, i took my motorcycle to go to the meeting, so there was no way he could've seen my car. at this point im pretty sure in his conversation with Dane, he probably was told that i had a modified rice rocket and that i only live for reckless driving, high speeds, and illegal street races. well, we talk for a little while longer (i was expecting to go into technicalities and explaining exact problems with the car), but it seemed pretty fruitless with the arbitrator barely understanding English and the "factory technician" knowing less than i did. well it got to the point where they wanted to see the car. i lead them back to my house slowly (which isnt easy on a sportbike), and they take a look at the celi. i kept the interior/exterior in immaculate shape, but was a little weathered on the outside, cuz it was sitting outside for a couple months. they asked me to start it and it wouldnt even turn over. they help me jumpstart it, so i charge the battery for a few min and try again. it turned over this time, but didnt start. tried a few more times, and nothing. the factory guy says that he'll need to have the car towed to a dealership to completely diassemble the engine to diagnose the problem (ie, to see if the problem was my fault or a mechanical failure). he said that if it WAS my fault, that the problem was non-warrantable. his example was that if it WAS bent valves that it would've been my fault cuz of reckless driving and that it only occurs when high pressure is put on them. well, pretty much its gonna cost me around $2,000 for a toyota dealership or the factory to completely diassemble and reassemble my motor and diagnose the problem. if it WAS in fact my fault, i would be stuck with that FAT bill. i dont kno exactly how or when this would happen because the arbitrator told me to await his decision which should arrive by mail in 5-10 days. then i could choose to accept his offer of settlement between myself and TOYOTA according to all the state of CA laws, or to decline it. sorry this post is so damn long, but i wanted to give u guys the heads up. if any of u guys are goin through the same crap right now, then i hope this helps somewhat. if any of u guys already went through this, can i get some feedback on wut goes on and wut chance (if any) that i have of getting a good amount of my money back? thanx for the help guys
420Unison - RIP '00 Celica
'01 Suzuki GSX-R, 600
www.gixxer.com - dJt3xtbook