Oooo.... Almost there! Drove the turbo again! Pics! (56K Warning)

[David Draper]

Sooooo.......close :(

The GT-S injectors were fairly close, but just not enough. No check engine light, smooth idle, and insane power.....at part throttle. At WOT, is coughs and wheezes like any car that's not getting enough fuel.

So, the 320cc injectors must go, and we are currently trying to source some smaller-than-the-Blitz-525cc's injectors; possibly from Nippondenso, although fuel injector casing is a concern, and the original manufacturer, Aisan, is rather impossible to access.

Boost did indeed come on a bit under 2000 RPM's, and the power, even sans correct injectors, was very noticeable. It was much faster than the GT-S w/ AEM CAI and TRD exhaust I had driven a couple of days ago, for example.

An LSD would be a very good idea, btw, as I noticed skipping over a bump under boost gave a large amount of torque steer when the front end got all it's weight back. Even without being able to go above 70% throttle, the car could do 0-60 in around 6.5 seconds or so.

It's worth noting, this car has the small intercooler, and the stock exhaust, so all the measurements we end up pulling off of this car will be a base output estimate. Assume a decent increase in power with the larger intercooler and an exhaust of some sort.

Also...actually, forget it. It's 10:30 at night, I'm tired, I'm going home :wtf:

Pics! This is a more finalized layout, with all the wiring being cleaned up and that sort of thing.

http://www.trdtoyota.com/clients/ncorg/turbo/newturbo13.jpg

http://www.trdtoyota.com/clients/ncorg/turbo/newturbo14.jpg

http://www.trdtoyota.com/clients/ncorg/turbo/newturbo15.jpg

[lunchbox]

:bowdown: :bowdown: :headbang: Just the update I was waiting for. I'm almost giddie.

[CelicaLicious]

sweet!! whats the blue hose?

[David Draper]

The blue hose is run down to the BOV I believe. It was relocated to about intercooler height, which may be an issue. I'm going to have to see about raising it a bit, or making water-proof connections possible. As it is, it's actually a recirculation valve off an Audi, and it's designed to discharge the air back into the system.

However, it was note setup to recirculate (it was venting to atmosphere) when I drove, and it had a nice discharge noise ;)

[David Draper]

Okay wait, it's now 11:00, and it's going to take me over half an hour to get home....

Okay, I'm really leaving this time. :o

[chico]

Nice man, can't wait for the finished tuned product.

[Masayver]

Wow, great news. Thanks for the update.

[celicaGT015spd]

Very nice, I like the whole set up, looks clean!!! Looks very good withouth the plastic cover over the engine!! Keep up the good work Dave!!

[Lilsupra]

Why is the MAF goin to the turbo and not the intake ...don't you need air readings goin from the turbo to the throttle body.

[ctkrider]

sweet...can't wait for you guys to start on the gt-s'!!!



-Richard

[chrono9six]

Thanks fo the update DD. You get 200 to the ground and im sold. Any more and its all gravy.

[PCC710]

David you said no CE light. What did you do to trick the ECU?

[Keyshawn]

Looks great, David. Keep up the great work!

[2002Silver Celica]

Keep up the good work Dave! I can't wait to see the final product and get some #'s off the dyno.

[oneqckgt]

Excellent work dave. My gt is waiting.......

[andrewmva]

Is that A red E30 M3 in the back of the photo???:drool:

[00CericaRuss]

good job dave & gang.... ted's car looks great! can't wait to drive it when he gets it back :gap:

[cool2miketlu]

Originally posted by Lilsupra
Why is the MAF goin to the turbo and not the intake ...don't you need air readings goin from the turbo to the throttle body.

MAF is on the intake, that intake leades to the back to the turbo then the pipe under it is coming from intercooler to the engine.

[celicaGT015spd]

hey dave whats going to be included in the base kit when we purchase it?

[Da Kine Guy]

Originally posted by Lilsupra
Why is the MAF goin to the turbo and not the intake ...don't you need air readings goin from the turbo to the throttle body.

The mass of the air doesn't change much when you compress it with a turbo so the reading is still valid. My car is the same way, AFM is pre-turbo right after the air filter.

Damn, that's a looooooooong pre-turbo intake track :chuckles:. Nice work, looks very professional and it's great that you guys are matching the increased air consumption with fuel. To do otherwise is just plain dumb.

[TRD-GT]

cool....

[Archon_Ninja]

ooooooooooooooo....

[Oo DaRk StAr oO]

OoOooOo LETS RACE DAVE!!!!

[kuruptgt]

i thought this day would never come there is a santa

[MysticCeliGT]

excellent i'll be waiting for the dyno

[dankjeweler]

sweet nice to hear going good dave saving for the day it is ready :)

[CelicaLicious]

makes me want to go out and guy A GT

[cool2miketlu]

well.... my CEL light did not come on until couple days after of hard driving... so.... I hope you will not have CEL but do not celebrate just yet but I am keeping my fingers crossed for ya.
I see that you fixed the ECU problem good for you David, gotta find out your secret so I can get that done too :)

[TRD-GT]

one year in the making i hope this turbo sees the light....if not bye celica

[larryd]

nice photoshop Dave.. we all knows it not true :) j/k

[Lilsupra]

Maybe u guys could start the GTS...u can compare while u tune them

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by Lilsupra
Maybe u guys could start the GTS...u can compare while u tune them

Aww, c'mon. We all know their GTS kit is coming out in 2010.j/k;)

[David Draper]

Hey, thanks for the enthusiasm guys :D

FYI, that car actually has two MAF sensors worked into the plumbing. We were trying to suck through the MAF, but it didn't seem to work out well, so we ended up blowing through it.

I may try to set it up to be in the vacuum side one more time before we finalize everything, probably using the stock air box (all this in hopes of passing CARB). However, if after talking to the CARB liasons, they think the new intake and blowing through the MAF aren't big deals, than we will likely leave it alone.

[Archon_Ninja]

is it still being fitted on an auto gt?

[aZnTrD2k]

the tube that goes into the ECU box is not there, isn't that bad?

[GOLDCELICA]

that is beautiful still wishing!

[X-EVIL-X]

check your pm david

[Ryancelica]

Finally someboy who hopes to get big bhp from a GT instead of a GTS. I would have bought a GTS for a grand more ath I paid for my GT if only it was available in black to me. Yes I sacrificed the extra power (and higher insurance) for a black Celica because every man and his dog owns a silver one and I wanted to be different.

Good luck with the final setup. Simon in England has a S/C GT and his kicks out 200bhp+. Still not finished though. Check out the thread posted by Stephen G at the top of the forum.

[peternguyen02]

what do you mean finally? do you know how long they've been working on this?

[coOOlcelica]

yeah we know how long they have been working on this.....well you can say almost a year now i think....

[DaksGT]

I dont like it, the piping is not chrome

[CelicaLicious]

Originally posted by DaksGT
I dont like it, the piping is not chrome

its not the final product

[2002Silver Celica]

Be patient, it will look real nice when the final product goes into production!!!!!:)

[byebyebaby]

I'll take a working version right now, chrome or no chrome

[SpyderByte]

David just hear me out on this one and let me know what you think. Your kit is probably going to make an extra 50% over stock HP when all is said and done. This means, all things being equal, that you will need basically 1.5 times as much fuel as before. If the stock injector is 280, then our new injector size should be 1.5 x 280 or 420. That's nice, but where the hell do we find injectors that size that will screw right in. Well... here's my thought. The supercharger kit that is now available for the 1zz on the Matrix/Vibe comes with an additional injector. Given that the kit is supposed to make an extra 35% more power let's just assume it is getting 35% more fuel via this new injector. That would be (280 x 4) x .35 or 392. Knowing that the roots type blower is
not that efficient however it is likely that the true injector size is actually a little bigger (probably right around our target 420. Now, I have absolutly no idea about the specs on this injector's threading and whatever else, but it seems to me it could be a viable solution (Toyota part, works with our ECU, probably the right size, etc.) If anyone knows anything, please chime in. Anyway, just hoping to provide a lead and it would be sweet if it fits.

[CelicaLicious]

440cc injectors from RC or anyone else would fit right in..

[David Draper]

Originally posted by CelicaLicious
440cc injectors from RC or anyone else would fit right in..

Actually, that's the problem. They don't just fit in. On the GT-S, they do. On the GT, you have to fit the injectors into a hole in the head. You only have about 2mm worth of extra space beyond the size of the injector itself, so essentially, the bottom 2.5 inches of the injector needs to be no more than 2mm wider than the current injector in order for it to work without modifying the head.

And so you know, actual flow testing done at RC yielded the following:

235cc on the stock injectors, and 320cc on the GT-S injectors. The opinion was, 35% more injector, for 35% more power. Only one problem......

The turbo is producing a whole lot closer to 85% more power :AF: Even when it's turned back down to the estimated 6 psi, it should be 65% stronger than stock. So, injectors of 390cc are needed at the least.

Were it not for one small section, the injectors out of the 3rd generation Supra Turbo would've worked, but that one small section tilts the injector up about 2mm, so the mist would be totally off.

So, we have sent a 1zz head, a GT-S injector, a 3rd gen Supra Turbo injector, a fuel rail, and the bolts to Nippondenso in Michigan. One of the tuners has friends there, and obviously, they'd be a great place to get the injectors from.

Alternatively, we're playing with S2000 injectors. Should have 'em tomorrow, and they're rated at 390cc (although at the Celica's pressure, they should be closer to 420cc).

We'll see what happens.....

Oh, one thing I can say, is this car moves VERY fast, particularly given the fueling situation. And, just like the factory setup, when you start to lean, it starts retarding your timing. All the factory safeguards are still in place :D

Oh, and no check engine light! :D

More later, but definitely getting closer....

[Da Kine Guy]

Lol, mk3 to the rescue!! If it turns out you can use 'em you should have NO trouble finding an abundance of parts. So many people think of a BHG as the end of the engine's life and just scrap the whole car and engine when it happens. Spare parts ready for plucking :) Not to mention they sold a lot of mk3s back then in the mid-late 80s.

BTW, for those that wanna know the stock injectors on my car are 440cc. I don't know what the stock fuel pressure is off hand. Looks like I may have a market to sell them to if I ever upgrade to a set of 550cc :D

[dankjeweler]

nice 65% at 6psi that will work till i can get new pistions cant wait i got a credit card all cleared just standing by for the release date

[CelicaLicious]

very interesting, i didnt know the GT was like that. whats the reasoning behind that 2mm deal?

[David Draper]

Originally posted by CelicaLicious
very interesting, i didnt know the GT was like that. whats the reasoning behind that 2mm deal?

Well first, and most importantly, Page 2

0
W
n
3
D

And, regarding the 2mm thing. The way the 1ZZ head is set up, you have a semi-circle that the injector fits into. So the injector needs to be the same size as the semi-circle or smaller. The injectors in the 1ZZ only have about a mm of space on any side.

So, you need to find injectors that fit in that space, or protrude only in the 180 degrees on top.

So, we're working on getting some substitutes that will be suitable.

[Jas]

wow :hitit: :bowdown: very nice job:headbang:

[MeGaXmAn27]

whoa.. that looks sweet... cant wait to see what that thing can do..

[Jersey Jay]

DD your best bet on the manifold is 304 SS slighty more in cost than 321 or 316 SS. Mine came out awsome Jimmy did a great job

[DaksGT]

Guys I was joking about the chrome thing. Sheesh tough crowd.

[David Draper]

Originally posted by DaksGT
Guys I was joking about the chrome thing. Sheesh tough crowd.

I knew it ;) I was gonna quote whore it, but I didn't get a chance.

You gotta drive this things Dave, it's nuts :drool:

[dankjeweler]

i cant wait :headbang:

[Lord Banshee]

i want to drive it.... :rolleyes:
and steal it too!

[t2000gts]

yeah dave, why don't you just hijack the fuel setup from TRD's matrix superchargers with the fifth fuel injector? being a dealership couldn't you get good prices on wholesale amounts of those parts?

[David Draper]

We could, but the fifth injector just doesn't give the same kind of even fuel delivery that one would hope for. I'm just not convinced it would be what people would want. I'm really trying to make this as close to stock operation as possible, and I don't think this engine is a very good candidate for fifth-injector fuel enrichment.

Actually, with the couple of changes I want to make, I'm going to try (one more time) to suck through the MAF, even doing so through the stock air box. It's my opinion we can hit 230 hp through the stock box and through the stock exhaust.

But, I don't see a 5th injector as being an option.

[CelicaLicious]

so how are you going to do it then?

[Fourgig]

Originally posted by Lord Banshee
i want to drive it.... :rolleyes:
and steal it too!

You could try...and then I'd have to hunt you down and kill you. ;)

[celicauk]

David is right on this, a fifth injector is not a good plan, they tend to be a bit like the VVL, its on or off, also I don't know of any controllers that actually pulse the injector correctly. You get the same problems with multibank injector setups, unless you go for twin ecus and map each one to overlap, and that is not easy believe me :)

[tsangjerry]

Simon, either HKS AIC, Trust Greddy Rebic 4 or Power FC can control the additional injectors.

[celicauk]

Ay lad, lots of ECU's can run the injectors, few can phase them in correcly and adjust duty cycles to cope with the new fuel flow rate. In short the opeing points must match and the second bank would be opening for a shorter pulse period, mapping this can be a real bugger.

I wasn't aware the Power FC could handle more injectors than the target engine has, after all, they are using the stock loom which doesn't carry redundant cabling for injectors. Can you point me in the direction of how this is done as it may well be an interesting option.

[inline4]

Yay! Almost ready!

[MarcMichaud]

i just simply can't wait

[SpyderByte]

Whoa, whoa, somebody misunderstood what I was talking about. I never suggested a +1 injector setup like the Matrix SC. I was trying to say that the injector in the SC would likely be the right size as a replacement (low 400-ish CC's). In other words, you would get 4 of them and use them to replace the current injectors. Being that they would be available from Toyota, he could get them wholesale and they would be more likely to fit properly than a random injector of the right size.

[HowlerMonkey]

All the supercharged tundras I do have the extra injector but there is a load of extra black boxage that goes with it.

[FL Honda Stompr]

Dave, is there an oil cooler included in the kit?

[Fourgig]

No oil cooler included.

[Fr0z3NAc1D]

If all goes good in production. . . .When can I expect to buy this puppy for my GT. My car is totaly stock right now (02 GT 5'speed) and I havnt bought anything cause ive been saving up since I g ot the car and no one knows that so I can buy something really expensive like a turbo. What would be the projected performance specs for a GT w/ Kit?

[Diesel949X]

Mmmm...turbo GT

[CreepingJeff]

is it done yet?... no? ok. *checks watch*

how about now?...

now?

[dankjeweler]

by spring would be nice and you think this is something we could install ourselves or better to take to a shop.

[cool2miketlu]

TAKE IT TO A SHOP!!!
This is not something to be done by yourself unless you know what you are doing. Its not an intake where just take out air box and plug intake in, you will need to have the car raised to work between the engine and the firewall area thats where turbo is located.

[DKFatalis]

how much would you think labor would run? Just taking the wc turbo and asking a shop to do all the work necessary?

[Cash Money]

...once again... the GT-S owners are alienated... i guess i'll be happy with my Kazuma exhaust and all the empty hopes and dreams usually becoming a reality in Toyota products...

...maybe TRD will come out with a Turbo or Supercharger Kit...

All hail Blitz though, one of the smart companies for their efforts...

[Jersey Jay]

Originally posted by Cash Money
...once again... the GT-S owners are alienated... i guess i'll be happy with my Kazuma exhaust and all the empty hopes and dreams usually becoming a reality in Toyota products...

...maybe TRD will come out with a Turbo or Supercharger Kit...

All hail Blitz though, one of the smart companies for their efforts... Why wait for TRD go custom like mine.:bowdown:

[Cash Money]

mail me some pics and info if you could please... it'll be the second project for it possibly... thanx

cmoney@ptd.net

[RXvedub]

David

Are you going to still persue the CARB exemption?

(please say yes)

[h0l0grafik]

cant wait for to see the PSSST! of the BOV and the faces of my friends after I smoke them in my automatic gt. haha

[larryd]

Dave.. whats the latest on your project?

[dragonfrog]

yeah, dave. i'll have the cash soon.

[DKFatalis]

how long would a stock clutch last w/ this turbo?

[Jersey Jay]

Originally posted by larryd
Dave.. whats the latest on your project? Larry I spoke with Dave last week and he's been real busy @ WC with software issues as it's his thing. He said he's had no time to post, your best bet is to call him to get updates.

[happies713]

holy ****! 230 HP? with the wcturbo? man, this turbo kit, is making me read this post over and over, maybe about 4 times!!!! I want for my auto matrix!! 1zz power!! any word on the matrix kit?

[Iceman]

I find it pretty refreshing that a dealership took it upon themselves develop a product that Toyota/TRD hasn't put out. Hopefully this gives WC a chance to outshine them a bit. Once question, Dave: Is Toyota helping you out at all?

Too bad they won't let you guys enter the LB celeb race and show off a little. Though I'm not a big fan of Longo Toyota, it was nice to hear that they came in first in one of the previous races.

[Jmd_1901]

Will the auto tranny be able take the added power?