GT-S VS Civic hatch w/Type R motor(Grudge Race)

[RedNOSceli]

On satuday, everyone was talkin s*** and saying this Civic Hatch with a Type R motor was ganna smoke me. I raced him
three times and each time my tires would spin so bad the ECU wouldnt let VVTL-I kick in, and makes the rev limit stay a 7k, So each race, I would fall on my face..I was soo FN pissed.

Anyway, last night, I was driving home and I see the same Red Civic hatch pulling into the turn lane..I rev on him and he pulls back out and follows me for a second, I pulled into the right lane and as soon as he got next to me I jammed second from about 40...I slowly, inch by inch pulled(It was pretty impressive for Civic) by about 100mph, his bumper was at rear quarter panel..I let out cause of traffic, but I bet he was pretty pissed. He had the white weels, body kit, gauges..he thought he was the fastest thing on the road, and his frineds did too..I know ill race him again this weekend..He'll have bottle, but I will too, so it should be fun.

[Chumpchiggy]

Not that I doubt you... but what does your tires spinning have to do with the ECU? The ECU is functional as a combined electronic unit in sync with the RPM's of the engine... your tires, have nothing to do with this...

Of course, I don't have a GT-S so, I don't know of any first-hand experience...:confused:

[yakkosmurf]

I agree. I'm not sure I follow that excuse either.

[fastwhipyo]

This is probably a stupid ass question since who races thier cars while there cold? but did you let the engine warm up to operating temp before you went and raced, the celica does have a limiter on that. If your engine is cold then the engine will not allow lift to come in and there will be a 7k redline. This is exactly what you said happened so i was just wondering. First time that **** happened to me I thought i ****ed it up, but the CEL doesnt come on so i did some research and that is what i found

[Chumpchiggy]

Fastwhipyo, I was thinking the same thing but, he said he ran him 3 times :confused: the car would have warmed up after the first run... making that possibilty obsolete.

[Mistrimeat]

Originally posted by RedNOSceli
On satuday, everyone was talkin s*** and saying this Civic Hatch with a Type R motor was ganna smoke me. I raced him
three times and each time my tires would spin so bad the ECU wouldnt let VVTL-I kick in, and makes the rev limit stay a 7k, So each race, I would fall on my face..I was soo FN pissed.

http://www.digitaldistortion.com/bs.jpg

:rolleyes:

[cilvrwing38]

im lost...wut???tires ,ecu, no lift wut say again....

[TitusTheThird]

If you can't properly launch your car after three tries, I doubt you could win any race.
-Peace:yawning

[RedNOSceli]

Ok, Dump the clutch at 6500 on a ****ty road and tell me how well you hit lift...

If you can't properly launch your car after three tries, I doubt you could win any race.
-Peace

Ill woop your ass.

[speedfreek876]

I thought we're all supposed to be on the same team here..hehehee..jp!! All in all..DO YOUR THANG..and show 'em what its all about!!!

[KleeftonSi]

It smells in here, really bad.

The Bull**** starts and doesn't end...LOL

ITR hatch should literally hand you your ass if the guy has any clue how to drive it.

And that whole ECU thingie is just too stupid to even think about.

Sorry.

[t2000gts]

yeah, the limiter will only kick in at 7k and not engage vvtl-i if there is one of the following

1) not enough oil pressure

2) engine is cold

3) car is in neutral

did you push the clutch back in while the tires were spinning or something?

even on my auto GTS, if the ECU senses major traction problems (like snow, for instance, since spinning the tires that high is impossible otherwise), it will still hit lift, but will force the car to shift into 2nd early (unless in sportshift, but even then i think it will shift).

[Kit99bar]

I believe him

on my second race with Jif's WRX I launched too high and my tires spinned like hell then my car would't let me rev past 7K

the first race I hit vvtl-i just fine

everyone calling BS on him are WRONG
:mad:

[larryd]

Originally posted by t2000gts
yeah, the limiter will only kick in at 7k and not engage vvtl-i if there is one of the following

1) not enough oil pressure

2) engine is cold

3) car is in neutral

did you push the clutch back in while the tires were spinning or something?

even on my auto GTS, if the ECU senses major traction problems (like snow, for instance, since spinning the tires that high is impossible otherwise), it will still hit lift, but will force the car to shift into 2nd early (unless in sportshift, but even then i think it will shift).

actually you are incorrect.. I hit the limiter with the car fully warmed up a couple times.. no VVTL-i kicks in at 6000 when your wheels are spinning.. i lost a couple races because of that :(

[CheezeFrog]

Originally posted by RedNOSceli
__________________
2000 Celica GT-S 6speed Absolutly Red
50hp NOS nitrous
AEM CAI
B&M Shifter
Ground Control Coilovers
*Comming Soon*
18" Rims, WW Body Kit, Fiber Immages Hood
Not sure why everybody is calling BS...

[Diesel949X]

http://homepage.mac.com/mackdiesel949/.Pictures/bs.gif

Someone please get a mop and some Lysol...

[RedNOSceli]

Originally posted by larryd


actually you are incorrect.. I hit the limiter with the car fully warmed up a couple times.. no VVTL-i kicks in at 6000 when your wheels are spinning.. i lost a couple races because of that :(

Thank you larry..Why is it when people hear somthing new they automaticly call bs..

I was off the bottle, If I was on it, I would have totally spanked him.

Second, Why is it so hard to believe...A type R(B18) motor is nice, but Its no better then the 2ZZ-fe in stock trim..Really, A whole 10HP more...Aside from that, whos to say..I beat him by less then a full car...Its not like I was out 10 cars in front of him. Ive been on this board sence the start, well almost..why would I come in here and throw aroud some BS story..

TitusTheThird - Please refer to http://www.nextcelica.net/community/index.php?board=17;action=display;threadid=2122

[CheezeFrog]

Damn, you must put the hurtin on ITR's then, which are about 400lbs heavier than the Civic hatch. Sounds like you're probably up there along side Camaro SS's and C5 Vettes? What do you run in the 1/4?

[raulo]

Originally posted by RedNOSceli

...A type R(B18) motor is nice, but Its no better then the 2ZZ-fe in stock trim..


2ZZ-FE? no such engine exists. I hope you meant 2ZZ-GE. There are big differences between toyota's "F" and "G" head designs...

R

[gsx0r]

to avoid being flamed dont diss other car companies :rolleyes:

[Kit99bar]

were'nt the last gen civic hatches 2500 lbs?

the earlier like 1991 or so are 2100 lbs right?

it could have been the 2500 lbs version

also, those engines might not be correctly installed and tuned.

Originally posted by CheezeFrog
Damn, you must put the hurtin on ITR's then, which are about 400lbs heavier than the Civic hatch. Sounds like you're probably up there along side Camaro SS's and C5 Vettes? What do you run in the 1/4?

[Chumpchiggy]

I never called BS on the race man... I just didn't understand how spinning your tires has anything to do with the ECU. It doesn't make sense.... two seperate units with no correlation between the two...

RPM's determine when the lift kicks in... and if the engine is running at the correct temperature.

Wheel spin has no adverse effect on that... I don't understand :confused:

Larry, can you give me a technical response as to why this is so? My brain needs a better response than "it just does" :D

[Kit99bar]

maybe the ecu determines if there is not traction and disables it?
I'm not sure why, but it has happend to me before...

Originally posted by Chumpchiggy
I never called BS on the race man... I just didn't understand how spinning your tires has anything to do with the ECU. It doesn't make sense.... two seperate units with no correlation between the two...

RPM's determine when the lift kicks in... and if the engine is running at the correct temperature.

Wheel spin has no adverse effect on that... I don't understand :confused:

Larry, can you give me a technical response as to why this is so? My brain needs a better response than "it just does" :D

[RedNOSceli]

Originally posted by raulo


2ZZ-FE? no such engine exists. I hope you meant 2ZZ-GE. There are big differences between toyota's "F" and "G" head designs...

R

opps, thought it was FE like the 1ZZ

Chumpchiggy, I was not refering to to you about calling bs.


As far as the ECU seeing what

[t2000gts]

actually you are incorrect.. I hit the limiter with the car fully warmed up a couple times.. no VVTL-i kicks in at 6000 when your wheels are spinning.. i lost a couple races because of that

hm...kinda makes sense...but didn't you run into that problem more often cuz of nos? :D

maybe mine does that too. but i remember i hit 8000rpm when spinning tires in one spot in snow.

[TitusTheThird]

Originally posted by RedNOSceli
Ok, Dump the clutch at 6500 on a ****ty road and tell me how well you hit lift...

If you can't properly launch your car after three tries, I doubt you could win any race.
-Peace

Ill woop your ass.

Whoop my ass, really? I hope your car has a lot more than just a 50HP shot of NOS. 180 + 50 = 230, I'm making more than that to the wheels.
-Peace

[RedNOSceli]

Originally posted by TitusTheThird


Whoop my ass, really? I hope your car has a lot more than just a 50HP shot of NOS. 180 + 50 = 230, I'm making more than that to the wheels.
-Peace

wow

[Chumpchiggy]

Originally posted by TitusTheThird


Whoop my ass, really? I hope your car has a lot more than just a 50HP shot of NOS. 180 + 50 = 230, I'm making more than that to the wheels.
-Peace

That's funny, your sig says you're "almost stock"... so, unless you're being highly sarchastic, I doubt your claims...

Got a dyno slip?

[DaksGT]

Originally posted by Kit99bar
were'nt the last gen civic hatches 2500 lbs?

the earlier like 1991 or so are 2100 lbs right?

it could have been the 2500 lbs version

also, those engines might not be correctly installed and tuned.


my civic hatch weighs 2094 pounds stock, so with my motor its probably got around 2200 now or so.

[larryd]

Originally posted by t2000gts


hm...kinda makes sense...but didn't you run into that problem more often cuz of nos? :D

maybe mine does that too. but i remember i hit 8000rpm when spinning tires in one spot in snow.

actually i never had that problem with the nitrous..it was before then.. i just launched to high and spun really really bad.. hit limiter in 1st before i knew it and was like ****.. shifted to 2nd, land atl ike 5000 and try and catch up :)

[ZIGGY GTS]

Originally posted by RedNOSceli
On satuday, everyone was talkin s*** and saying this Civic Hatch with a Type R motor was ganna smoke me. I raced him
three times and each time my tires would spin so bad the ECU wouldnt let VVTL-I kick in, and makes the rev limit stay a 7k, So each race, I would fall on my face..I was soo FN pissed.

Anyway, last night, I was driving home and I see the same Red Civic hatch pulling into the turn lane..I rev on him and he pulls back out and follows me for a second, I pulled into the right lane and as soon as he got next to me I jammed second from about 40...I slowly, inch by inch pulled(It was pretty impressive for Civic) by about 100mph, his bumper was at rear quarter panel..I let out cause of traffic, but I bet he was pretty pissed. He had the white weels, body kit, gauges..he thought he was the fastest thing on the road, and his frineds did too..I know ill race him again this weekend..He'll have bottle, but I will too, so it should be fun.

Okay, i smell bull$hit with this story....a hatchback civic EG or EK with a type - R motor and bolt ons will smoke you, without your NOS! Read some honda hybrid websites....and learn something!

[t2000gts]

i'm pretty sure titus is pimping an S4 nowadays and that 'almost stock' civic is gone :D :p

[DaksGT]

Originally posted by ZIGGY GTS


Okay, i smell bull$hit with this story....a hatchback civic EG or EK with a type - R motor and bolt ons will smoke you, without your NOS! Read some honda hybrid websites like---
www.hybridhonda.com
www.b16a.net

...and learn something!
I'd agree, I pulled on gt-s' with my civic on the hghway before. Never raced of a light though. But then again on the street anything can happen.

[raulo]

Originally posted by TitusTheThird

180 + 50 = 230, I'm making more than that to the wheels.


Prove it.

R

[lilredceli]

OK my boyfriend has a civic and we race all the time. He has a civic coupe with a GSR and pretty much type r everything in the motor (cams,pistons,etc.) I cant beat him for ****. Yeah, yeah, im a girl right. WRONG, i raced him in his car and him in mine and i waxed him, so me being a girl driver had nothing to do with it before anyone says it. He really only has me by about half a car length each race, but i cant beat him. If this guy has a type r motor in a hatch(my bfs is a coupe) I cant see u beating him man, sorry.:rolleyes:

[DaksGT]

Originally posted by lilredceli
OK my boyfriend has a civic and we race all the time. He has a civic coupe with a GSR and pretty much type r everything in the motor (cams,pistons,etc.) I cant beat him for ****. Yeah, yeah, im a girl right. WRONG, i raced him in his car and him in mine and i waxed him, so me being a girl driver had nothing to do with it before anyone says it. He really only has me by about half a car length each race, but i cant beat him. If htis guy has a type r motor in a hatch(my bfs is a coupe) I cant see u beating him man, sorry.:rolleyes:
so your BF's almost got the same set up as my civic.

[DaksGT]

Originally posted by raulo


Prove it.

R


he does, he's oldschool. :)

[lilredceli]

Originally posted by DaksGT

so your BF's almost got the same set up as my civic.
I dunno, what set up does your civic have??

[DaksGT]

Its a 1993 vx with a b18c1 with type R internal (came with the motor) with a dc sport 4 into 1 ceramic coated header, aem cai, apex-i vafc, and no exhaust of any kind.
I don't drive it cause I can't afford to pay insurance for it, but I take it out every once in a while around the block.

[ZIGGY GTS]

Originally posted by DaksGT
Its a 1993 vx with a b18c1 with type R internal (came with the motor) with a dc sport 4 into 1 ceramic coated header, aem cai, apex-i vafc, and no exhaust of any kind.
I don't drive it cause I can't afford to pay insurance for it, but I take it out every once in a while around the block.

Sounds like u have a very nice setup....My friend has the same exact setup, plus a ported B16a head with civic type-r cams and some good tuning, in a 94 LS teg body...he will own any celica, provided its not running on NOS U have all that in a VX body! that is one very fast car...My mechanic has a 93 VX body with the same exact setup except with JUN cams and LSD and it made 197 to the wheels...its best time was a 12.5......Nice to see a celica owner who also gives a honda props...! =)

[cilvrwing38]

he only has 197 hp to the wheels and made a 12.5xx run???

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by RedNOSceli

Second, Why is it so hard to believe...A type R(B18) motor is nice, but Its no better then the 2ZZ-fe in stock trim..Really, A whole 10HP more...
Few things to straighten out here. The B18C5 has 15 more HP. It's big advantage though, is the peaking HP at 8000 rpm, not 7600, and the broad power band from 5700 to 8400. Not 6000 to 7800 (8300). As for which motor is better, it depends on what you want to do. If you're serious about tuning, I'd take the B18C5 anyday because of the lower amount of computer control you have to deal with. I'd rather put cam gears on and tune it myself then have a computer that's not completely thinking about performance adjusting my cam timing.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by lilredceli
OK my boyfriend has a civic and we race all the time. He has a civic coupe with a GSR and pretty much type r everything in the motor (cams,pistons,etc.) I cant beat him for ****. Yeah, yeah, im a girl right. WRONG, i raced him in his car and him in mine and i waxed him, so me being a girl driver had nothing to do with it before anyone says it. He really only has me by about half a car length each race, but i cant beat him. If this guy has a type r motor in a hatch(my bfs is a coupe) I cant see u beating him man, sorry.:rolleyes:
I'm sorry you feel you have to justify your race results just because you're female. That shouldn't happen. I've met a few women racers at the road course, and they drive better than many of the men. Just state what raced and how it went. Don't feel the need to justify yourself because of your gender. If someone responds with, "well you're a girl," then you and everyone else on the board knows this person isn't very credible. I can tell by your post, you've received that response before. And I'm telling you it shouldn't happen.

[RedNOSceli]

Originally posted by yakkosmurf

Few things to straighten out here. The B18C5 has 15 more HP. It's big advantage though, is the peaking HP at 8000 rpm, not 7600, and the broad power band from 5700 to 8400. Not 6000 to 7800 (8300). As for which motor is better, it depends on what you want to do. If you're serious about tuning, I'd take the B18C5 anyday because of the lower amount of computer control you have to deal with. I'd rather put cam gears on and tune it myself then have a computer that's not completely thinking about performance adjusting my cam timing.

Of course the B-18 is easier to tune..Its using technology thats been out for 10+ years...If I was building a race car of course Id go honda for tuneablity, ease of obtaining parts etc..My celica is my daily...beside it looks good. (At least

Once again, I dont see why this is so "far fetched" I beat him by less then a car. Ive seen Type R hatches go 15's, but Ive seen other type R hatches pull low 14's into the 13's..Lots of differant factors determine how well it runs..Once again why would I BS? The B-18 does not have a significantly broader power band..5700-8400 and 6000-8300.. 400rpm more is hardly more usable, condisering when you shift in a celica youre never below 6100 rpm anyway, i dont see why that would be a factor.

You have some valid points but 1.8 liters is 1.8 liters..

A stock type R motor with low miles in a hatch "Should" beat a celica, but not by much.

Sorry for spelling

[cilvrwing38]

can someone pls answer my question....197hp canrun 12.5xxin a quarter???am i missing something here....coz thats impossible....

[ZIGGY GTS]

Originally posted by cilvrwing38
can someone pls answer my question....197hp canrun 12.5xxin a quarter???am i missing something here....coz thats impossible....


No it not impossible, i know because i saw the timeslip.....He ran that with his car stripped out, gutted race doors, slicks, skinny bogart drag wheels in the back, and wheelie bars...His gutted out civic in race trim probably weighs around 2200-2300 lbs.... And oh yeah, thats 197 to the wheels...which means around 225 hp + from the flywheel...=)

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by ZIGGY GTS



No it not impossible, i know because i saw the timeslip.....He ran that with his car stripped out, gutted race doors, slicks, skinny bogart drag wheels in the back, and wheelie bars...His gutted out civic in race trim probably weighs around 2200-2300 lbs.... And oh yeah, thats 197 to the wheels...which means around 225 hp + from the flywheel...=)
My question was going to be how much the car weighed. HP ain't everything.

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by RedNOSceli

The B-18 does not have a significantly broader power band..5700-8400 and 6000-8300.. 400rpm more is hardly more usable, condisering when you shift in a celica youre never below 6100 rpm anyway, i dont see why that would be a factor.


The difference can be huge depending on the tranny. The Type R tranny is so close, it really doesn't matter. I can shift at 7500 and still land above 6k. If you have a GSR transmission, then it's a different story. That 500 rpm difference is a lot. (I say 500 rpm because if you want to use fuel cutoff numbers, that's 8500 on the B18C5).

[cilvrwing38]

ITS STILL KINDA HARD TO SWALLOW BUT OHHKK 197 HP CAR RAN A 12.7XXIN A QUARTER

[CAMmed]

well ive spun my tires into lift and it did kick in and just made my tires spin even more...never had the cut off problem from spinning my tires. and ive ran a 93ish civic hatch with a gsr motor i/e; fell out of lift in second and still beat him by half a car to about 90mph, guess he couldnt drive.

[ZIGGY GTS]

Originally posted by CAMmed
well ive spun my tires into lift and it did kick in and just made my tires spin even more...never had the cut off problem from spinning my tires. and ive ran a 93ish civic hatch with a gsr motor i/e; fell out of lift in second and still beat him by half a car to about 90mph, guess he couldnt drive.

Yeah, he probably couldnt drive....=)

[DaksGT]

Originally posted by ZIGGY GTS


Sounds like u have a very nice setup....My friend has the same exact setup, plus a ported B16a head with civic type-r cams and some good tuning, in a 94 LS teg body...he will own any celica, provided its not running on NOS U have all that in a VX body! that is one very fast car...My mechanic has a 93 VX body with the same exact setup except with JUN cams and LSD and it made 197 to the wheels...its best time was a 12.5......Nice to see a celica owner who also gives a honda props...! =)

Always was and always will be a honda freak, previous to this I had a crx with the d16z, and the same bolt ons and a cam.
Let me tell u for what that car was it was quick. Unsafe but quick.
My girlfriends cousin is the nuts one, lives with his parents works full time so all the money goes into his cars, he currently has a 5.0 thats in the 10's and a civic in the low 12's. Has the frankenstain set-up and thats all hes telling me, never let me drive in it or drive it though :(

[Speck102]

It has alot to do with the driver, i seen an itr hitting high 15's and low 16's at the track, then he finally got an alright run of 15.1, who knows what gear he was in and when he switched. I could see you killing the civic.

[TitusTheThird]

I'm to lazy to get off my ass and prove a simple thing to do to you guys. What is so hard about believing an Si can hit that amount? All it takes is money and time. I used to be N/A , but opted to go F/I. In my car you will find some custom tubing and a T3/T4 turbine. I didn't buy a kit, some new company making custom kits for cars hooked me up with an unbeatable price. I'm cool with the owner so if any So. Cal people are interested Email me, I usually don't check here often. That should be sufficient proof and benefit two parties at the same time (yourself and the manufacturer). Looks like I can kill two birds with one stone.
-Peace

[DavidYan]

the reason why vvtli will not kick in if you are spinning WAY too much is because there is not enough load on the engine. kindof like if you free rev in nuetral there will be no vvtli. vvtli is computer controlled to come on and if there isnt enough load it will not activate.