View Full Version : Wiseco Pistons or Crower Rods
nyoneway
03-07-2003, 07:03 PM
Let me ask you guys a question and I want to know what everyone's opinion is,
Running the XS Turbokit at 7psi, I think we're near the limit of what the 2ZZ's internal can handle. Now like most of you, my car is a daily driver and I want it to be as reliable as possible on a limited budget. Because at 7psi, I don't feel too confident on the stock safety margin if something were to happen.
The question is, if there are no plans to up the boost more than 7psi, and money is a factor, so you can only be able to get either a Wiseco Low Compression Pistons or Crower Rods, which would you choose?
The stock 2ZZ rods are very weak, so its logical to replace them first. But the arguement with the pistons is that not only its stronger and lighter, it also lowers compression and put less stress on the connecting rods. Kinda kill 2 birds with 1 stone. The downside to this is that you will lose 15-20whp, which is'nt too big of a deal when you already have 250+.
Crower Connecting Rods: $750
Wiseco Pistons: $500
Lormax
03-07-2003, 07:05 PM
Ok, if you're going to strip the engine down and take the block apart ANYWAY...do em both...since the rod is connected to the piston......
nyoneway
03-07-2003, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by Lormax
Ok, if you're going to strip the engine down and take the block apart ANYWAY...do em both...since the rod is connected to the piston......
Damn I knew someone's going to say that. But that does not answer the question. I do not want to buy both if its not absolutely necessary.
gts24
03-07-2003, 07:41 PM
I see what you are saying. Very good question. .
Essentially. what is the weak link here? My guess would be the rods.
What if you were to just replace the Rods, leave the compression ratio the same....
Would you essentially have a more reliable way to run 7 psi?
Didn't the SCC Matrix throw a rod because some jackass put 89 octane in it?
Jersey Jay
03-07-2003, 08:03 PM
The rods are the weakest part of the two, it's a damn if you do and damn if you don't situation. Your not goig to push any higher than 7 psi with the stock compression ratio on a daily driver so do the rods. If you want to push higher than 7 psi you have to do the pistons BUT the stock rods will bend like pretzels under higher boost. Your best bet is being you've waited this long for F/I is to wait a little longer and save the $500.00 more you need. It doesn't make sense when the motor is torn down not to do both from a labor aspect. You should also keep in mind when they tear down your motor that you should have all new bearings, gaskets and head studs done. If you want just 7 psi you don't have to do anything I've mentioned. Remember I'm only 15 minutes from the GWB and I orded a ton off stuff today from the West Coast for the ZO so I'll be boosting by the summer:AF:
Lormax
03-07-2003, 10:40 PM
What I see happening, is you getting the rods, and the turbo, and then enjoying the turbo to hell and back, and wanting more...so you pay AGAIN to tear the engine down...gasket set? Almost 200 bux...head bolts? Probably 50-60 for the set. crankbearing set? Probably 50..there's 300 in parts you can save by doing it right the first time....
aznleo28
03-07-2003, 11:06 PM
i say you just do everything at once. You would be spending alot more money on labor getting just rods or pistons, then crack the engine open again later to put other stuff in. Just save up and do it all at once. The internals should last 100,000 miles before you seriously have to think about rebuilding. Of course this takes a lot of maintenance and precaution, but i think its possible and so does XS from what i was able to discuss with them. good luck
Lilsupra
03-07-2003, 11:53 PM
Lets see here...if we have the money to afford a turbo...i think we'd be capable of buying rods and pistons...There is no one without the other...u need an aftermarket piston with an aftermarket rod...they essentially have to work with one another...when ur usin a stock rod with an aftermarket piston or vice versa ur gonna run into problems with mass balance and all that kinda stuff...i think the stock piston was designed for the stock rod...so it would be a good thing to get both...think about what happens after that...300+ HP with pistons and rods...what can happen to the tranny???? Gosh a whole new tranny will be needed.
aznleo28
03-08-2003, 12:11 AM
i would be mad if the the toyota tranny can' t even handle 300 hp. It would be a real disappointment to me.
larryd
03-08-2003, 09:11 PM
Dont do one without the other. Its a major pita to swap out the rods or pistons so why would you want to do it 2x? By changing one without changing the other all you would be doing is changing the weakest link from the rods to the pistons. Save up your $$ until you can afford both and do both at the same time.
Korben007
03-09-2003, 05:45 PM
Well my car has 100,000 miles on it about now. I will be hopefully getting one of the first five turbo kits. I don't have any idea how long my internals will last because of the milage already put on them. I will just stick with my stock until something goes wrong then do all the internals at once. So that I can save on my labor costs. Then i will have a fresh engine. It just does not make sense to me to change something thats not broken. But of course adding extras are not a problem!
cool2miketlu
03-11-2003, 04:42 PM
hmmm.... I hear bent pistons more than throwing a rod, which kinda say piston should go first rods second. But then like others say I would just save up and do both at same time.
Keyshawn
03-11-2003, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by gts24
Didn't the SCC Matrix throw a rod because some jackass put 89 octane in it?
According to Dave Coleman at Sport Compact Car, their Matrix broke a piston.
beeseries
03-11-2003, 11:27 PM
how bout a groupbuy on the rod and piston package?
tirechirp
03-12-2003, 10:29 AM
>how bout a groupbuy on the rod and piston package?
No need- they're on sale this month.
http://monkeywrenchracing.com/toyota.html
I'm planning to order the low-comp pistons and the rods before the sale is over and have them installed later when I get my turbo. I heard it drops your power a little if you run the lower comp without the turbo installed. I bet you could run a lot of nitrous though :applaud:
cool2miketlu
03-12-2003, 05:41 PM
hmmm $499 for 8.8:1 pistons... $809 for rods.... so tempting....
Keyshawn
03-12-2003, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by cool2miketlu
hmmm $499 for 8.8:1 pistons... $809 for rods.... so tempting....
Go for it, Mike! You'd take Celica performance to the next level if you hooked up your internals. Since I've been paying for my mods with straight-up cash, I don't have the money to build my internals right now. One day, maybe...
tirechirp
03-13-2003, 08:23 AM
>hmmm $499 for 8.8:1 pistons... $809 for rods.... so tempting....
I had to call and ask about this- there's actually 10% off the $809 for rods this month through the website. That's why I want to get them now. $81 off is a pretty good deal.
B_Rock
03-14-2003, 10:47 PM
if you lower the compression be sure to put enough boost to more than make up for it or else you've just blown $1,500 on less performance...
sleepy celica
03-16-2003, 05:57 AM
it just lowered down to 8.8:1 ...hMm..maybe d.d. turbo kit and once the xs is released, i'll say there's gonna be hella damn aftermarkets cominq. =] i saved up to 5 grand..i mite as well just wait a little longer..it wont hurt =..hopefully..]
here's an idea, do nothing to the internals until you have the money (to do both) and run the celica with a max of 5 psi. Then when you can afford the pistons and rods bump up the boost. If you run 5 psi you will probably loose 30 hp or something like that, but you already said that would be ok, and you will have a bigger safety margin.
sleepy celica
03-16-2003, 11:55 PM
im not gonnna get turbo just yet, still kinda risky to me although xs is pretty confident with the turbo on the celi running with the same internals. I would wait if there are going to be possible more or better aftermarket parts for rods/pistons toward the future...then slap a turbo on.
nyoneway
03-17-2003, 07:52 AM
You know, I spoke to XS a couple of times during the development of their kit and their original goal was to run the kit at 8-9psi. I was stunned.
The reason why they lowered it down to 7PSI was not because of concerns of the weak internal, it's because we hit the limit of what our MAF can accurately handle.
Originally posted by nyoneway
You know, I spoke to XS a couple of times during the development of their kit and their original goal was to run the kit at 8-9psi. I was stunned.
The reason why they lowered it down to 7PSI was not because of concerns of the weak internal, it's because we hit the limit of what our MAF can accurately handle.
so do they offer or can we get a new/different MAF sensor?
nyoneway
03-18-2003, 12:32 PM
I don't know if the Power FC supports speed/density type sensors, but it's possible to get a better MAF, but you have to retuned the fuel map.
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