What happens when 17 & 13 yr. old kids steal a high-powered sports car.... [Archive]

xNiNjAx

03-10-2003, 09:23 PM

Originally posted by GT-S Celica
i guess i sounded pretty crazy but the way things r going, america needs to get tougher. i understand wat ur trying to say oldster, but i just cant feel sorry for people like them. no matter how young or old they r. does it really matter if ur 13 or 31? a person should kno the difference between right and wrong way before he/she hits the age of 13.

No man. Youngsters can't properly distinguish right and wrong if they haven't been properly guided by their parents. Hypothethically, if you were raised by a bunch a criminals, wouldn't it be ok to rob someone of their valuables?

GT-S Celica

03-10-2003, 09:26 PM

yes, so i guess in that case the parents must be punished. not the kids.

CGts00

03-10-2003, 09:30 PM

in no way do i see these people deserving to die for stealing a car...do you think everyone who has stole a car should die....steeling a car and death are not even on the same page....i mean ya punish the kids for what they did but they shouldnt "deserve to die"....a 13 year old kid c'mon...this other kid is 17 and probabley influenced this kid to do it and he just went along...imagine if you knew this 13 year old kid and he just ****ed up one night and dies.....:(...some kids arnt even given a chance its not only these kids that need to be punished its the parents that neglected them.....

baNanA_ryCe

03-10-2003, 09:33 PM

they're just kids....they don't deserve to die. We're not the ones to judge whether ppl derserve to die or not.....and quite frankly....i don't think anyone deserves to die....not even the worst person in the world....

CGts00

03-10-2003, 09:39 PM

it surprises me bout all the responses on these kids deserving to die for a car....

baNanA_ryCe

03-10-2003, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by CGts00
it surprises me bout all the responses on these kids deserving to die for a car....

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CGts00

03-10-2003, 09:54 PM

whys it so weird?????

PoweredbyRICE

03-11-2003, 01:31 AM

because life is more important that a stupid car..no matter what car..money is money LIFE is 100000x more important thats what insurance is for!

chrono9six

03-11-2003, 01:37 AM

I dont think we are sweating the car. Yes it is replaceable(Maybe not if this keeps up). And i dont feel bad because the 17 year old put their lives on the edge. Ok they stole a car. Use it for a little and ditch it. No they pushed it over the edge of its performance and killed themselves. Stupid in my opinion. The 13 year old on the other hand was just a pawn. This should be a wakeup call for all parents. Put this on the news. Love and teach your children. Or this will happen more and more often.

F22-Raptor

03-11-2003, 05:38 AM

Originally posted by baNanA_ryCe
they're just kids....they don't deserve to die. We're not the ones to judge whether ppl derserve to die or not.....and quite frankly....i don't think anyone deserves to die....not even the worst person in the world....

What about Hitler?? All evil needs to succeed is for good men to do nothing... There are plenty of people out there that I think deserve death. If a man raped your sister would you hesitate pulling the trigger? I agree that perhaps these kids didn't deserve to die for their small offense. But the thing is they did something stupid and they paid for their mistakes.

baNanA_ryCe

03-11-2003, 07:39 AM

Originally posted by F22-Raptor

What about Hitler?? All evil needs to succeed is for good men to do nothing... There are plenty of people out there that I think deserve death. If a man raped your sister would you hesitate pulling the trigger? I agree that perhaps these kids didn't deserve to die for their small offense. But the thing is they did something stupid and they paid for their mistakes.

I don't have a sister. And yes i would want to pull a trigger, but that's how i feel, doesn't mean its right. Sorry to get all religious, but we are not to judge the fate of others. Just my .02

edit: oh and what if that rapist had a loving mother...would it be right for her to kill me because i killed him? She could have reason to kill. But it doesn't make it right

Keyshawn

03-11-2003, 07:56 AM

Did they deserve to be punished to the fullest extent of the law? Yes. Did they deserve to die because they stole a car? Definitely not.

Sirk_2

03-11-2003, 08:14 AM

Thats horrible...i can't believe all those comments about the kids deserving to die...I've done a lot of stupid fuking things in my life, nothing as severe as stealing a car though. Death is not at all a good punishment for car theft...all I can say is, poor young bastards.
If someone was to steal my car, death is the last thing I would wish on the thief; no matter their age...its just a car.
I swear, it just seems like some of the people from this board and the RX-7 board have 0 morals and respect for other peoples life's.
Its just sad the was fate works sometimes.

BRAK

03-11-2003, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by oldster
I can't believe that people think children deserve to die because the stole a car. Pretty sad priorities IMHO............:(
OK good point BUT Give them another 5 to 10 years and they would of done it with a gun to the owners head. They deserved it .. they were already in the wrong direction, and these new "prick" kids now a days need a punch to the face ... most all kids now act like NOTHING can touch em ... F**ckin society.

Mistrimeat

03-11-2003, 09:51 AM

Why was the owner worried about the kid's parents suing HIM??? They STOLE the car, they killed THEMSELVES, not the car's owner. I just dont see how he would be liable for anything. :confused: Maybe the justice system is more fucked than I realize?

oldster

03-11-2003, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by BRAK

OK good point BUT Give them another 5 to 10 years and they would of done it with a gun to the owners head. They deserved it .. they were already in the wrong direction, and these new "prick" kids now a days need a punch to the face ... most all kids now act like NOTHING can touch em ... F**ckin society.

That's a pretty wild set of assumptions. You are intimate with their past so can predict their future.............:rolleyes: I am very concerned about children and the paths they choose. To condone a death sentence on these particular kids based on the limited knowledge you have is arrogance or stupidity beyond belief. :wtf:

F22-Raptor

03-11-2003, 10:09 AM

Originally posted by Mistrimeat
Why was the owner worried about the kid's parents suing HIM??? They STOLE the car, they killed THEMSELVES, not the car's owner. I just dont see how he would be liable for anything. :confused: Maybe the justice system is more fucked than I realize?

It is. There have been cases where there was a thief who cut himself on glass getting into the window or some crap like that and sued the homeowner and won. There is all kinds of crap like that going through the justice system..

Toy Yoda

03-11-2003, 10:10 AM

I'm with oldster and the others who say that the kids didn't deserve this. Sure, they deserve punishment, but death is beyond that. Everybody makes mistakes, and sadly, these kids were never given the chance to correct/redeem themselves.

F35-JSF

03-11-2003, 10:20 AM

I wouldn't wish death on any human. You only get one life.

Keyshawn

03-11-2003, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by BRAK

OK good point BUT Give them another 5 to 10 years and they would of done it with a gun to the owners head. They deserved it .. they were already in the wrong direction, and these new "prick" kids now a days need a punch to the face ... most all kids now act like NOTHING can touch em ... F**ckin society.

Stealing cars as a teenager doesn't mean they're gonna be murderers later in life. Hell, I know a few guys that used to do boneheaded stuff like that when they were young, and they turned out to be good guys later on. Now if these kids were a couple of psychopaths who committed murder, then maybe you have a point. But stealing someone's car is not in the same ballpark as that.

Littleguy

03-11-2003, 10:25 AM

No child should die from something like this. We have all made mistakes in the past. These kids made a mistake and now they don't have a second chance. It sucks that two people threw their lives away over a car. :(

F22-Raptor

03-11-2003, 10:28 AM

Here is one instance of stupidity that got paid...

Taco Bell recently settled a lawsuit filed by Vivian Cross, after her son and a friend were killed in an alcohol-related car accident on February 11, 1999. Jasper Burns and Misty Sutton were passengers in a car driven by Tommy Goodin, a then-employee of Taco Bell, who had a blood alcohol level of .04.

Cross filed the lawsuit because Goodin and Sutton were given alcohol by Cary Cunningham and Russ Braly, two other employees of Taco Bell. Understandably, Cross said it was Braly, Cunningham, and Goodin's negligence that led to the accident. However, not-so-understandably, Cross said that as Taco Bell employees, most of the financial burden should be shouldered by Taco Bell.

Why? It's simple. Cross claimed that Braly, Cunningham, and Goodin -- in their capacity as Taco Bell employees -- planned and purchased the alcohol while they were at work the previous day. In other words, because the three talked about the party at work, Taco Bell was partially liable.

F35-JSF

03-11-2003, 10:36 AM

They settled...... Seems like the easiest way to get money now a days. Sue a major company and then settle out of court knowing good and well that your law suit was baloney.

CreepingJeff

03-11-2003, 10:55 AM

big deal. some kids died. they're just people.

there are thousands of kids who die far worse deaths every day. it happens and nobody cares.

Mistrimeat

03-11-2003, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by F22-Raptor
Here is one instance of stupidity that got paid...

Taco Bell recently settled a lawsuit filed by Vivian Cross, after her son and a friend were killed in an alcohol-related car accident on February 11, 1999. Jasper Burns and Misty Sutton were passengers in a car driven by Tommy Goodin, a then-employee of Taco Bell, who had a blood alcohol level of .04.

Cross filed the lawsuit because Goodin and Sutton were given alcohol by Cary Cunningham and Russ Braly, two other employees of Taco Bell. Understandably, Cross said it was Braly, Cunningham, and Goodin's negligence that led to the accident. However, not-so-understandably, Cross said that as Taco Bell employees, most of the financial burden should be shouldered by Taco Bell.

Why? It's simple. Cross claimed that Braly, Cunningham, and Goodin -- in their capacity as Taco Bell employees -- planned and purchased the alcohol while they were at work the previous day. In other words, because the three talked about the party at work, Taco Bell was partially liable.

Now THAT is fvcked up. Everyone better hope nobody steals their car and manages to kill themselves, or worse yet, someone else with it and comes back to sue YOU. I can only imagine what they claim... "The car theif wasn't wearing a seatbelt when he crashed your car and died, we're going to sue you!" Absolutely ridiculous!

CreepingJeff

03-11-2003, 12:42 PM

another thing that's fvcked up:

if someone breaks into your house, you can shoot him if you feel your life is threatened.

however, you cannot shoot him if he has already broken into your house, stolen your tv, and is carrying it out. you'll go to prison for that. you have to let him go on his merry way. :thumbdown:

oldster

03-11-2003, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by CreepingJeff
big deal. some kids died. they're just people.

there are thousands of kids who die far worse deaths every day. it happens and nobody cares.

I care, don't you?

CreepingJeff

03-11-2003, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by oldster

I care, don't you?

:no:

Xracer729

03-11-2003, 01:59 PM

I am 13 and i know how some of us kids are. lots of them just dont care about anything or anyone so the just do as they please. it really pisses me off when some kidswill do the stupidest stuff and most of the time its cuz there bored, im bored all the time, i can control my self. I know lots of people that would do that stuff, i know 4 people that just got outta jail for breaking into this somebody's house. it just doesnt make any sence some of the stuff i see happing all the time.

oldster

03-11-2003, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by CreepingJeff

:no:

I'm very sorry to hear that........:(

riceimp0rtz

03-11-2003, 04:21 PM

i think its pretty fuked up some of you people are sayin these kids deserved to die for a mere car.. but i do agree the justice system is a little messed up too, just look at oj simpson..

Griffin

03-11-2003, 05:14 PM

I think the kids did get what they deserved. Not that death is a fitting punishment for grand theft auto, but rather we all control our own destiny, and we deal with the consequences of our actions. In this case those actions were to steal something you are not qualified to use and then trying to use it anyways. Its no different than stealing a hand grenade and blowing yourself up with it. Sometimes you pay the price for reckless stupidity. I'm not saying that it makes it acceptable as a punishment for society to impose, but I dont see what about a persons life makes it so valuable that when they choose to take that life themselves doing something moronic in a stolen car we should feel sorrow or pity. They made very foolish choices and died as a result, thats how nature works. I mean come on guys, I knew by like 7 or 8 that stealing was wrong. By 13 you're in high school and you KNOW stealing is wrong. You know it is illegal and that if you get caught there are consequences. You also know by instinct that when you start going really fast in a vehicle its dangerous, the fear and excitement are what cause the adrenelin rush. And we all know that at 17 your adult enough to be considered one in an act like being a real moron and getting your younger brother killed. I mean, I guess the 13 year old I do feel kind of sorry for in that he might have been going along out of respect and trust for his older brother, but I know that *I* wouldn't have been stupid enough to do the same at 10 let alone 13. The 17 year old is no different than anyone else, he is fully accountable for his own actions. He got exactly what he deserved for he chose his path himself and received the result of those choices. That is the very essence of justice. If you dont like that maybe you better kill yourself and hope for ressurection in a different universe where physics don't hold sway and we can be irresponsible morons without fear of consequences.

Society isn't at fault, the kid driving the car was.

BRAK

03-11-2003, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by CreepingJeff
another thing that's fvcked up:

if someone breaks into your house, you can shoot him if you feel your life is threatened.

however, you cannot shoot him if he has already broken into your house, stolen your tv, and is carrying it out. you'll go to prison for that. you have to let him go on his merry way. :thumbdown:
Thats why before you shoot him you yell out --- I SEE A GUN --
therefore the neighbors will hear you or something and you get away free. You can shoot if you see a shiney object .. or something to that effect.

Griffin

03-11-2003, 05:23 PM

Doesn't have to be a gun - a steak knife is good enough. So after you shoot him just put one in his hand.

CGts00

03-11-2003, 05:41 PM

or just drag them next to a kids bedroom and say you told them to stop but they kept heading for your kids :)......there would probabley be a lot less robberies if you could shot someone that came into your house late at night...

i dont agree that if these kids didnt die in that accident that someday they would end up killing people anyways...i mean people can change ya know.....and once again punish those parents....

Keyshawn

03-11-2003, 05:44 PM

Griffin,
Thought provoking argument. However, I still can't say they deserved it. Using your argument, do stuntmen and people who participate in extreme sports also deserve to die, because they knowingly put themselves in positions of danger?

CelicaGTS6906

03-11-2003, 06:28 PM

Originally posted by CGts00
it surprises me bout all the responses on these kids deserving to die for a car....

:werd: That is a very stupid thing to say. They are just young kids who made a mistake and ended up getting killed. They surely didn't "deserve" to die for just stealing a car. Besides, he's getting money back for it, so he is not at a total loss, unlike the kids and their family. It's just a car and people don't "deserve" to die for making a mistake.

oldster

03-11-2003, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by Griffin
but I dont see what about a persons life makes it so valuable that when they choose to take that life themselves doing something moronic in a stolen car we should feel sorrow or pity. They made very foolish choices and died as a result, thats how nature works.

If the bulk of society regarded human life that way then your alternative of ending it and being resurrected would not be a bad alternative. What does have value to you?

BRAK

03-11-2003, 06:56 PM

For me--
money
my belongings
family
maybe freinds ..... i dont trust anyone really

Life has a desitiny ... but many paths, it is up to you to see what path you take. The sad part is the kids took the wrong path, so NO i dont feel sorry for what happened,.

Keyshawn

03-11-2003, 07:10 PM

oldster

03-11-2003, 07:17 PM

Originally posted by BRAK
For me--
money
my belongings
family
maybe freinds ..... i dont trust anyone really

Life has a desitiny ... but many paths, it is up to you to see what path you take. The sad part is the kids took the wrong path, so NO i dont feel sorry for what happened,.

So a child riding down a steep hill on a bicycle deserves whatever they get? An interesting choice of words, "sad part is the kids took the wrong path, so NO i dont feel sorry for what happened", if you feel no remorse why would their choice be sad?

CGts00

03-11-2003, 07:25 PM

i feel sorry for what happen...because who knows maybe these were good kids who just got caught up in the moment and made one mistake and it toke their lives.....but maybe these kids did take the wrong path but everyone ****s somehow sometime in their life....no ones perfect....and its a car c'mon insurance will cover it and it will be replaced....do you want to go back to the old days where you cut off someones hand when they steal some bread...:) some people deserve to die but not these kids

02CeLiCaGrL

03-11-2003, 07:37 PM

I wouldn't say I felt sorry for these kids. But I would't want them to die for just stealing a car. I'm thinking maybe the 13 year old was kind of pressured into it. He probably thought this would be like a fun thing to do with the 17 yr old. I don't know. Many situations can arise from this. But I don't wish death upon anybody unless they took the life of another. But for material things no. It's just sad.

Keyshawn

03-11-2003, 07:54 PM

I agree with 02CeLiCaGrL that there's a middle ground in between saying, "I feel really sorry for these kids," and saying, "Yeah, those punks deserved to die."

oldster

03-11-2003, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by 02CeLiCaGrL
I wouldn't say I felt sorry for these kids. But I would't want them to die for just stealing a car.

If you feel no sorrow for this happening then it would be interesting to see what does effect you emotionally. Chipped nail, missing out on a sale, having someone steal your car?

02CeLiCaGrL

03-11-2003, 08:53 PM

If u dare ruin someone elses life, dont expect sympathy when the powers that be decide to ruin your own. I dont pity a soul since everyone makes their own decisions, but any death in any case is something that shouldnt be wished on another unless they were homicidal, and on that note, I dont think you should be using stereotypes and sexist comments.

CreepingJeff

03-11-2003, 09:25 PM

Originally posted by oldster

If you feel no sorrow for this happening then it would be interesting to see what does effect you emotionally. Chipped nail, missing out on a sale, having someone steal your car?

well, with all the people that die every day, what difference does two more deaths make?. none, really... unless you know these kids personally or have some emotional connection to them. only then should you be affected by their deaths. i didn't know them. they are just strangers who died. it has no bearing on my life.

that is different than saying the kids deserved to die. i don't think they deserved it... i simply don't care that they died. they were gonna die eventually, anyway.

this really belongs in OT.

Griffin

03-12-2003, 12:02 AM

Originally posted by Keyshawn
Griffin,
Thought provoking argument. However, I still can't say they deserved it. Using your argument, do stuntmen and people who participate in extreme sports also deserve to die, because they knowingly put themselves in positions of danger?

Do they deserve to die? certainly not deserve to no, however they are prepared for that possibility and they accept that as a potential consequence of their actions. Of course stuntmen also do everything they can to ensure their own safety in a necesarily dangerous situation. They put themselves in a dangerous situation, but they train for it and take all possible precautions to minimize the danger.

Driving a vehicle you are unfamiliar with at a very high rate of speed after stealing it is going to great lengths to put yourself at risk in a number of ways. The kids could have driven slowly. They made a long series of very bad decisions. They had any number of points at which they could have chosen to step away from the completely unecessary risk they chose for themselves. Theres an old saying - you mess with the bull, you get the horns. It happens.

Listen - thousands of good people die to freak accidents and stupid coincidences every day. To wreck the car as badly as described these kids were obviously driving in such a way that they were probably endangering others on the road as well as themselves which is inherently irresponsible especially in a vehicle that you are not familiar with. But to do so for NO reason in a stolen car... I'm sorry but what about this action should engender pity? I feel sorry for the younger boy to some extent but thats all. If it's all the same, I'll save my compassion for noble people dying of incurable ailments, firefighters that give their lives attempting to save others, coast gaurd men that go into dangerous waters each day in attempts to rescue strangers, soldiers that go to foreign lands to protect my liberties, I will save it for the millions of people who might derserve such feelings, not squander it on those who went to great lengths to hurt themselves and others, and left this world in a most careless and foolish fashion. Assuming that there are people who cared about those kids imagine how they feel. And the kids made them feel that way, caused such sorrow, caused invoconvenience and sadness to that cars owner, and for what?

Hey if you think thats cold so be it, but I believe that we all have ultimate responsibility for our actions, and when we choose to put ourselves in danger we choose to accept the change that luck may not be on our side. Its like playing Russian Roulette - you choose to accept the fact that you may die and you give yourself up to that risk. Thats a choice we make for ourselves at the expense of others and we should not feel sorry for those that have chosen their own path. Feel sory instead for those who were too weak or helpless to make their own choice, or had freak occurances of illness make the decisions for them. That is truly sad - not this foolish and senseless waste.

baNanA_ryCe

03-12-2003, 12:10 AM

anywho.......i sued Burger King for having a roach in my burger. I called the sanitation dept right away and kept the burger. They had a suprise inspection and i got a lawyer and won approx $16,000! Wohoo! that money is going to my college instead of my car! That burger king closed down and i have been eating at Panera Bread and Jasons deli and those "fresh sandwich" places ever since...

Griffin

03-12-2003, 12:15 AM

Originally posted by oldster

If the bulk of society regarded human life that way then your alternative of ending it and being resurrected would not be a bad alternative. What does have value to you?

I value the lives of those who value their own life, or take such action as to make those lives have value to others. Seems to me that they hurt a guy by stealing his prode and joy, and then likely endangered others with reckless driving. If I beleieved in Karma I'd simply say that they enjoyed the fruits of their own bad karma.

I think if the bulk of society TRULY believed that we are all accountable for our own actions then there would be less crime, less violence, and teh world would be a better place. Again I ask - with all the truly good and honest people that die every day, why should I feel sorrow for those that die at their own hand as a result of a series of very many bad choices. I am not saying I wish this fate on them, just that when you choose to do these things you needlessly place yourself at risk, and hence you send a message to the world that you do not value your own life. If they did not value their own lives then why should I? The passenger I pity for his decision may have been influenced by his brother. I do feel sorry for the parents, even though it seems obvious they did a poor job teaching their children, and in choosing not keep them out of trouble they set themselves up for this kind of heartbreak/ But hey, the driver especially chose his path. So be it. I feel no pity because he received what he put himself in a position to receive nothing more. He did not value his own life, hence I do not either.

Keyshawn

03-12-2003, 05:05 AM

Griffin,
Your stance on this topic is not all that different from my own, especially concerning the younger kid. After articulating your viewpoint, it seemed significantly more compassionate toward the 13 year old and even both kids' parents than your original clear-cut proclamation that,"The kids did get what they deserved." Like I said, there's a middle ground between having your heart completely go out to both of these kids and coldly stating that they both deserved to be killed, a point that some on this thread seem to have missed.

F22-Raptor

03-12-2003, 05:21 AM

I agree with you two. The problem I see here is like saying did a person who commited suicide deserve to die?? Well if he felt so little about his own life that he thought it wasn't worth anything.... These kids, by their choices (not sure about the 13 but then I was pretty aware of what was going on around me at 13) decided their life wasn't worth much. More to the point if they had killed people on their stupid joyride, how then would you feel. Would you still feel sorry for them?? They took someone else's life. I think it is bad when good people die. The others don't bother me.