First engine Upgrade. POSITIVE PEOPLE ONLY!!!

[4PASNU]

As we all know the bottom of the engine needs to be beefed up for SAFE forced induction. I need additonal info who I could send the crank to to get knife edged, heat treated and shot peened. While this is getting done. I'm waiting for companies to start releasing rods and pistons. After that the block wil be ready. The sleeves of our block are stronger them most may believe. Over engineered on Toyotas part.

[t2000gts]

you sure about the sleeves thing? how tough do you think they are? (how much boost)

[4PASNU]

I'm a materials engineer. The material used in the cylinder walls is a ceramic metal matrix composite material. This materal is so hard and dense that it takes a diamond tool to cut it. That is why it can not be bored. It actually could be done but it would be VERY costly. We use a diamond tool to machine a sealing surface on tool steel and it is not easy. Tool costs $1800 a piece. The block can handle a good amount of boost. I use Solidwork which has an FEA program to check stresses and potential failures and the numbers are good. I myself don't go to the drag strip. I want power from a roll. I want enough power to run WITH our V8 conterparts. The block should handle approximately between 12 and 16 lbs. of boost. The material used in the block is the same used on the 911 turbo block except it also has carbon fiber reinforcement. People have tried to say that the cylinder wall is aluminum with nikisel coating but you people are dead wrong. The most expensive part in our car is this engine. Which is high when compared to other vehicles on the market. From the manufacturing part the engine should only account for 20% to 25% in relationship to the whole vehicle. The Celica GTS engine costs $11,000+

[4PASNU]

ttt

[larryd]

they are strong yes..but as strong as u think??

<img src="http://www.newcelica.org/temp/pic2.jpg">

[4PASNU]

Even the sun will shine on a dogs a@& on a good day! If the cylinder wall would have been able to contain the carnige in that cylinder Toyota could corner the market in engine strength. Top Fuel Dragster Engines use the same type of material for cylinder walls and as you know the use the most explosive stuff you could imagine and put down in excess of 5000 hp. When things go wrong in those engines they look just like yours if not worse. Ceramic Composites have a elastic strength over 10,000 psi before plastic deformation occurs. If you look at your piston I guarantee that you will see sign of premature compression failure at the moment before it punched the cylinder wall. The rod itself shows that cylinder was still intact for a brief moment. Our cylinder walls will never see those pressures from boost.

[larryd]

actually it was intact for about 5 miles.. then it went BANG..

[celicauk]

Hows about some info on the original question????


I am currently having my engine rebuilt to use up to 1 bar (around 15psi) of boost. According to the engine builder doing this work the block and internals will be ok for this amount of boost as standard. The work needs to be done on the head and compression reduction.

If you really want to do things to the internals then the main weak spot is actually the piston. It's gudgeon pin is set very high in the sleeve, this means there is minimal clearance between pin and the underside of the piston crown. When you look at on of the pistons you will see two raised areas on the crown, one on each side, the amount of material on these edges is minimal. This is the area where mine cracked on detonation from an incorrectly setup Nitrous injection.

If you go for a forged piston then you will probably still have the same problem. The only way around this is to either make the crown thicker and shorten the skirt to avoid the crank lobes, or shorten the crank and have it fit lower in the piston. Either way will probably affect the capacity of the engine due to shortening of the stroke.

Cheers

[ZeroGTS]

TTT

more more more!
i want mroe info!
im eating this stuff up!

[Xlr8_10]

I agree with Zero. This is good stuff! keep it comin fellaz. :D

[BlackGT]

wow 4PASNU, havent seen you post in a long time. A lot of the old school members are coming out of the woodwork recently.

-Tim

[nmyeti]

The cyl walls may be fine, but personally i would be looking to a good way to beef up the block abit. I guess the real question is how much will the head gasket hold, because on an open deck block with very little sealing surface, i would not expect it to last long...

I still recomend a proper closing of the deck.

[Kit99bar]

oh comon larry didn' that happen cuz you ran your car low on oil for so long?



Originally posted by larryd
they are strong yes..but as strong as u think??

<img src="http://www.newcelica.org/temp/pic2.jpg">

[larryd]

actually no.. that one was due to certain parts that werent replaced that prolly shoulda been replaced on the engine rebuild which was replaced later on..

[cruzerz545]

Sweet



Originally posted by larryd
they are strong yes..but as strong as u think??

<img src="http://www.newcelica.org/temp/pic2.jpg">

[cruzerz545]

which cylinder is that? 1 or 4 ?



Originally posted by larryd
actually no.. that one was due to certain parts that werent replaced that prolly shoulda been replaced on the engine rebuild which was replaced later on..

[ishido]

4pasnu: is there a website, article, or any other source that has information specific to our engine? I read a fantastic article on the Type R engine and what they do and was wanting something similar.

Are the materials used on the 2zz the same as the 1zz?

How in the world did you find out what our engine is made out of?--since most people would assume it was just an aluminum block.

If they went into that much work with the block, why do we have cast pistons vs. forged? Is it that much harder and costly to go w/ forged (even if they invested that much in the block)?

[larryd]

Originally posted by cruzerz545
which cylinder is that? 1 or 4 ?





depends how you look at it.. cylinder 1 I believe..furthest from throttle body..

[bgreganti]

Originally posted by ishido
4pasnu: is there a website, article, or any other source that has information specific to our engine? I read a fantastic article on the Type R engine and what they do and was wanting something similar.

See http://www.greganti.com/celica/specifications/index.html. Be sure to click on the engine link.

Are the materials used on the 2zz the same as the 1zz?

I believe so.

[Maelfyn]

The 1ZZ block is composed of aluminum with a 2mm thick cast-in grey iron sleeve.
The 2ZZ block is composed of fine-ceramic-fiber and grain-reinforced aluminum-silicon alloy. The pistons rubbing surface is iron-plated.

This is according to Jack Yamaguchi.

[Chumpchiggy]

Moving this to the FI forum...

[Toms-Celica]

[URL=http://monkeywrenchracing.com/wiseco_pistons_toyota_celica_gts_2zz_ge.html]
While this is getting done. I'm waiting for companies to start releasing rods and pistons.
You may now start calling me god, jesus, king, prince etc...

[Fiero]

Yo your lordship. You didn't link that right :tongue: :paranoid: :rolleyes: :silly:

Just joking with you ;)

[Keyshawn]

Crower already offers custom-made connecting rods for the Celica. Call or email 'em for info.

Crower
Makers of assorted engine components.
Crower Cams & Equipment Co.,Inc.
3333 Main Street
Chula Vista, CA
Phone: 619-422-1191
24 Hour Fax:619-422-9067
Website www.crower.com
E-mail: tech@crower.com

[Toms-Celica]

I tried! Oh lord did I try!