Big Celica autocross weekend

[autxr]

Well it was a regular old Celica meet this weekend at the autocross in Diwiddie VA.

There were 5 folks running in ES with GT's and 2 of us in GS with the GTS (we are still using the 2001 classing for the winter series).

Here's the roster:

Scott: GTS (thanks Bryan)
Bryan (NoCones): GTS
Tim Aro: GT (pitcrew's car)
GH Sharpe: GT
Pitcrew: GT
Pitcrew's wife: GT
Keath: GT
Keath's co-driver:GT

Results aren't up yet, bu the GT did rule the day.

Bryan and I both managed to edge out Tim Aro on Raw time, but GH Sharpe was 0.5 seconds quicker than Bryan and I. Tim Aro will likely out Pax us as well.

GH was running 205/50-15 Hoosiers. Bryan and I were on 225/50-15 old Kuhmo's that were partly worn. Pitcrews car has 205/50-15 new Kuhmos. I'm not sure what tires Keath is running.

Weather was cold, a steady 10-15 mph wind all day. Not sure the actual air temp.

I expect the final results today, I'll post a link when they are up.

You don't see Aaron (B1mmer) listed becaues he's a traitor and has abandoned the Celica for all national events. He's co-driving Eric Peterson's MR2 spyder for National Tour events, and has now arranged a ride in a WRX for the Pro Solo's.

Scott

[preparedcivic]

HeeHeeHee.

;)

I knew GH was going with his new daily driver toy and had been telling him my opinion on set-up and tire choice for the last few weeks. I thought about posting a teaser that there was going to be an unknown big name entrant at VMP on Sunday, but thought the suprise might be more fun.

All this is making me think about going out to the local winter series in Philly in a couple of weeks. I got the itchees to work off some butt rust.

[NoCones]

I guess Scott's too modest to mention it, but he beat me in my own #$%@ car...by 0.026 stinking seconds. Now I've got some motivation for revenge at Ft. Myers in his car!

The event was a lot of fun...Tim designed the course and I thought it was a blast...anxious to see how Scott and I stacked up against the stiff competition in the Pro heat.

And that wind was amazing...wouldn't let up all day.

[autxr]

Results are up. I'm sure some of you will appreciate the level of competition we had in the ProKhana.

http://www.nasaracing.net/autox/13jan02/index.html

I did some research to try and make me feel better about an 8th place.

The average finish at 2000 nationals for positions 1-7 was 4th. Rob Falkner is the reason the Boxter S remained in super stock.

Tim Aro won BS at the Pro Finale and Richard West won STS at the Pro. The average Pro finish for places 1-7 was 4th.

The average finish for these guys at the 2000 Nationals was 5.8 (they've gotten better).

It's pretty fun going head to head with this level of competition. Some of these guys drove 4 to 6+ hours just to play at a local event!

I did edge Bryan, but I had the advantage of my final 2 runs being nearly back to back. He was also tire warmer for me.

Scott

[B1mmer]

Ok gentlemen. Yes, I'm officially a car whore. I'll drive a Pinto now if I think I can be competitive in it. With the restructuring that happened for 2002, I have a gloomy feeling for the GTS. It went from being one of the better cars in the old GS (bottom of the top tier cars with the Type R, WRX, and Eclipse GSX) as compared to some of the lesser competitive cars (Preludes, Probes, Integra GSR's, etc.), but in the new DS, it's in the bottom tier (Preludes, GT-S's, Eclipse GS-T), with the big problem being the lack of an LSD. So, until it's reclassed, I'm going to whore around in other cars from a National perspective, and see what I like. Locally, I will still drive the GT-S.

I've had my eye on a Mini Cooper (Non-S). That thing is a rocket in the turns, doing 67.1 mph in the slalom, a full 4 mph faster than the GTS, and faster than anything Road and Track has tested as a true production car (Porsches, Ferraris, etc. included). The bonus is that this speed was achieved with 15 x 5.5" wheels mounted with 175/60/15 Mud and Snow tires. Imagine a set of 205 Hoosiers on that puppy. I want to be the king of HS, and for about $17k, I think it could be a lot of fun, and I wouldn't need to sell the Celica either...

As for Scott, he owes his win over Bryan to me, for the tires he and Bryan were running are mine. It must be that they were perfectly scrubbed in from a lot of smooth driving! ;)

In regards to the Spyder, I wasn't particularly fast in it, but I think I will get real quick. We were running a heat cycled out set of Kuhmos that are 1 1/2 years old. Eric and Tim used to drive them to events as rain tires. The cars is well balanced and setup, and when we slap some new Hoosiers for the Feb. 10th event at NASA, expect some better times. That should give me at least a basis for what to expect the car to do down in Ft. Myers...

Hopefully, I'll see a bunch of you down there. - Car Slut

[nxracer]

How about THIS (http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/markhirt/lst?.dir=/Racing/Autocross&.src=ph&.order=&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/bc/markhirt/lst%3f.dir=/Racing%26.src=ph%26.view=t) Pinto?

I have also re-classed and re-indexed the event using the 2002 classes and PAX/RTP index.

(file should be attached)

[NoCones]

c'mon, ho-bag, let's cut to the chase...you're driving other cars because now that I'm a Koni/Hoosier guy, you can't rely on out-spending me to beat me :D

Interesting thoughts on the Mini...but you could also take $17K and try to make an STS or DSP contender out of the Celica.

[B1mmer]

I've considered the DSP thing. STS doesn't interest me due to the lack of a legal LSD. My reasoning for not modding the car is that I would like to have a nice daily driver that I could sell if I felt like it. When guys mod up their cars like Larryd did, then you run into this never ending pit of money trying to make it faster or fix what you've done wrong. Selling a stock car is a hell of a lot easier than selling a rice machine. Plus, unless you get lucky like I did with my Miata, you rarely break even or get a 'profit' on what you put into the car. Oh, and the other thing is that Mini's are cool.

BTW, If you come out to the Febuary NASA event, I'll bring some BFG's and beat your best time in my Celica on a fun run, punk! :D

Later, Aaron

[nxracer]

Some note on the "re-classed" results (see above)
A) SS got a lot tougher for 2002
B) DS no longer gets the free PAX ride (sorry)
C) Someone said it was cold. At cold events STS moves to the top, especilly if it's a AWD Subaru 2,5RS with Mr. West behind the wheel

Aaron: How about STX (STS on LSD)

[B1mmer]

The results paxed for 2002 were interesting, thanks for posting Mark. DS does have a tough pax, and SS should have a tougher pax, especially considering a 2002 Z06 on street tires is a rocket. STX is a possibility, but I think I enjoy the competition of stock class. Even with all the talk about shocks/struts on the Evolution discussion, stock class gives you the cheapest route to run competitively. If I hit the lottery, things will be different. - Aaron

[NoCones]

oops, don't know how that repost happened.

I completely agree with you Aaron...the neverending string of mods could be a pain and then you're left with a car that only another autocrosser will appreciate.

But I still can't see getting a mini just for autox...take that 17K and sell the Celica and put 35K into a class-dominator car.

Or, just have fun in the GT-S, and be a whore ;)

Those reclassed-for-2002 results suck! (but I suppose I need to face reality). :sad

[B1mmer]

I like that I'm finally able to get in a competitive car and learn from a good set of drivers: Eric Peterson, Tim Aro, and Rod McGeorge. The best part is knowing that even though the Spyder didn't win the Tour due to a crazy alignment problem, Peter Raymond (the last 2 years BS National Champion) just bought a Spyder to campaign next year. I guess when Tim won the Pro championship with an alignment that was less than optimal, it tells you something about the car. Plus, getting a WRX for both Petersburg and the Pro Finale? How good does that get? - Aaron

[nxracer]

(I fixed the repost)

Actually DS gets hurt worse than SS
SS = .836 was .830 PAX & .829 RTP
DS = .798 was .789 PAX & .794 RTP
For some reason Mr. Beck always liked GS

STX: The way I see it the "X" in STX stands for WRX

[pitcrew]

Nxr,
Thanks for the repax! That was the first time I drove Driver's Celi in "anger", and the first time with a FWD, so 21 out of 70 is OK by me (lost the course in the setting sun on my first run, Dman that big windshield! I usually drive a Miata). Driver was coming down sick, so didn't drive as agressively as she would have, and coned her fastest run away. She was often faster than me in the Miata.
We were running on a set of New Kumhos, but they were a test set we picked up used before they were available here, and had been shaved and run on track before we got them. They are now down to 1/2 way thru the wear bars, and never built any heat. We just ordered a set of Victorracers since TR is out of Ecstas until ~ Mar. and we need tires for the Evo 1,2 &3 schools we are taking 1st of the month. Also need to get a second set of wheels and Hoosiers for Ft. Meyers, I expect I'll be driving the Celi there as well. Celi trailer hitch arrived today.

[pitcrew]

Hey Aaron, shoulda stuck with co-driving our Celi! I'll get ya on Pax the next time! (that repax also didn't include GH's 59.5 fun run in his Celi!)

[B1mmer]

Hey Charles,
It'll be different next time, especially considering we were running 1 1/2 yr old heat cycled out Kuhmos Eric and Tim used to drive to National events on and use as rain tires. My best time in the car was my last run, which was a 60.010 +3, and the +3 was due to the car oversteering at the finish and clipping the inside cone which knocked another two over. That time was a full second better than my best clean, and it was the 4th time I'd ever run the car. On top of that, we'll be on new Hoosiers for the next event, which should increase the grip, and get me going faster. No doubt I would have done better in your GT initially, but after the learning curve, I think I'll be real quick in the Spyder.

I do like doing the new pax setup, for we can push one another to drive better. It's like a Tarheel Prokhana in itself. Scott, are you willing to put 5 bucks into a hat and run our own side 'Prokhana' with 2002 pax, winner take all? It might be just what we all need to get ourselves going faster...:) - Aaron

[pitcrew]

:rolleyes: Ya know what they say about excuses... Our tires were more clapped out than yours, I was driving a FWD for the first time, and it's completely unsorted out w/ unadjusted off the shelf shocks, VS a fully sorted out nat champ car with >10K of custom parts on it. I was only 3 sec off Tim and 4 sec off GH's times after he made 8 runs. I know where I left a good sec + out there. It'll be different after I get a little more seat time. :p

[B1mmer]

In all seriousness, I think it would help us all that go to the NASA events to put a small pot together for each event, say a $1/person, with the winner takes all philosophy. Then, for winning, the driver with the win for that event can ride along or drive a fun run with his/her competitor to show them where he/she can/did go faster, smoother, or different line. I'm sure we'll find that one driver or another has specialty which the group can then benefit from. I'm also pretty sure that the same driver's wouldn't win every time, so it would make for an interesting game of pushing each other. - Aaron

[pitcrew]

I hope y'all realize I'm just talkin sh** with ya! I'm all for a side pot if it's set up to produce some instructional use. I'd like for us to compare notes thru the event on lines etc, and let the one who can make the most of the info win the prize. It'll be hard for all of you others to take a fun run rides with me tho, Our car only holds four!:D

[pitcrew]

..hey guys, I wanna be like a sponge this year. Anything that I can learn can only make me a better DRIVER. Once in a while people pick up a lil somethin from me too. -driver;)

[Maelfyn]

bah, where the hell are these events. I'm sure a few of the dcm7gen guys would love to go to these events including myself.

[inline4]

so the cooper did the slalom 4 mph faster than a Gt-S? That's funny cause the last time I checked Motor Trend the GT-S did the slalom in 69.1mph and has .89 G

[NoCones]

These events are at Virginia Motorsports Park near Petersburg, VA. VMP is a dragstrip...we use the parking lot behind the grandstand.

Probably a 3 hour trip from Ellicott City (I used to live in Columbia). Just take I-95 past Richmond to Petersburg. Catch I-85 for a few miles and then US1 for a few.

Next event is 2/10. Keep an eye on www.nasaracing.net for info/registration.

www.vmsc.org also does some events there

Bryan

[autxr]

inline4- We're not in this forum to fight or "defend" the Celica. We're here to talk about autocross.

That being said...

Last I checked Motor Trend hadn't tested the Mini yet.

Car and Driver (or was it R&T) just had a test (in Europe) of one, and yes, it was faster through the slalom than the Celica. That's according to the published numbers in their road test summaries.
Remember, not all the car mags. use the same cone spacing for slaloms.

Scott

[pitcrew]

I find such reviews, especially from one mag to another, to have SO many variables built in to be virtually meaningless for evaluating potential in the real world of AX. Topeka is about as close as one can get to any credible comparison.

[afghan]

Of all the cars at the Detroit show(yesterday), I would bring home the Mini CooperS in Black w/white strips!

[CamaroFS34]

Next event is 2/10. Keep an eye on www.nasaracing.net for info/registration. It's open. :)

And Aaron? No stealing the "car whore" title, okay? ;)

Karen

[Mas]

Aaron,

Last I saw Peter Raymond had purchased the Nationals winning DM Lotus super 7. If thats the Spyder you're talking about your right, if you're talking MR2 I've yet to see him drive it. And from what I've heard after the $$$ he spent on the DM car I'd be hard pressed to believe that he also spent the cash for a MR2 too.

Raymond told me, twice in a row national champ meant it was time for a new challenge. On a related note two time GS national champ David Fauth will be making a move and leaving GS/DS to whom ever wants the challenge. If I had to guess I think he'll be driving something that wears a blue and white propeller and has been "prepared for the street", but you didn't hear that from me.

Mason

[B1mmer]

You could be right Mason about Peter, but I heard this from Eric Peterson, Tim Aro, and other BS people, so I guess we'll wait and see. As for David, hopefully he will find more challenges elsewhere, which makes it a bit more interesting when I drive that WRX at the Pro Finale... - Aaron

[pitcrew]

Now if we could only convince Rob Carpenter that he also should take up a new challenge... like needlepoint... or converting his car over to street prepared... or ???

[Conemasher]

Hey guys,

I just wanted to say hey and introduce myself. I've been hanging out here on and off for a while, but now I'm co-driving a GT for the 2002 season. I figured this was the best place to come for setup and other information. I had a BLAST driving the GT for the first time this weekend at the NASA event. Man, does that thing ROTATE! Hope to speak to most of you guys at the next NASA event in Feb.

~Scott Hoffman (Keath's co-driver)

[nxracer]

Originally posted by pitcrew
Now if we could only convince Rob Carpenter that he also should take up a new challenge... like needlepoint... or converting his car over to street prepared... or ???

Nah Rob's too fun to watch

"She the Driver" as to worry about "That old Fessler Woman"

[silver2001gts]

I wish I could have been there for that event, with so many Celicas to watch and compete against. I'll bring my stock GT-S to the Feb 10 autoX at VMP. All I have is the alignment and Kumhos. I'll get shocks after I get a job. See you there.

-Ken

[pitcrew]

GH only had alignment and Hoosiers and royally kicked butt!

[ConeKiller]

Having GH in the class would be HUGE.... you wanna see how quickly Honda's can get reclassed...... :)