Nitrous Diagram Pic

[RedNOSceli]

I re-did my Nitrous this weekend..I had it out for a while and decided to make up a little diagram..I posted this on Nextcelica, but I figure a bunch of you don't venture over there..

Happy Squeezin'

[da wacky paki]

Thanks alot man, thats the best diagram i've seen so far!
Hopefully, i'll install my direct-port kit next weekend...

[Slant]

Whoa, that's very nice. thanks. Do you have any pics of your setup?

[ProToolsKid]

That's a baddass diagram but one thing. Doesn't gravity and the way the intake manifold is designed cause the fuel to settle in the manifold and not make it all the way into the motor? It was my understanding it would be better for the car to get a bigger fuel pump and a computer to control the fuel when you spray.

[oldster]

Originally posted by ProToolsKid
That's a baddass diagram but one thing. Doesn't gravity and the way the intake manifold is designed cause the fuel to settle in the manifold and not make it all the way into the motor? It was my understanding it would be better for the car to get a bigger fuel pump and a computer to control the fuel when you spray.

If you are getting fuel "puddling" then you have a very serious design flaw.

[ProToolsKid]

Originally posted by oldster


If you are getting fuel "puddling" then you have a very serious design flaw.

WTF Spraying just nitrous is stoopid. You jack up your A/F ratio lean out your motor and burn holes in your pistons. Look at his diagram there is a solenoid that pushes fuel in W/ the Nitrous. The problem W/ this the air travels up the manifold not down and unless I totally Phucked up in physics the fuel will have a hard time traveling up the manifold.

[oldster]

Originally posted by ProToolsKid


WTF Spraying just nitrous is stoopid. You jack up your A/F ratio lean out your motor and burn holes in your pistons. Look at his diagram there is a solenoid that pushes fuel in W/ the Nitrous. The problem W/ this the air travels up the manifold not down and unless I totally Phucked up in physics the fuel will have a hard time traveling up the manifold.

Perhaps I should be clearer, how much fuel do you think you are spraying with the NOS? If you are putting in so much that it is not atomizing and getting into the cylinders then you have a serious flaw in the system. Please remember you are also doing this at WOT.

[RedNOSceli]

I called NOS..They said use a .036 N02 Jet, and a .022 fuel Jet hooked up to the stock fuel system...I immagine they have enough knowledge to know exactly how much fuel to add to nitrous...Puddling isnt a problem.

[ProToolsKid]

If you guys say so but there is a guy I know that burned holes in his pistons W/ the same setup. $6000 out of pocket isn't cheap.

[oldster]

Originally posted by ProToolsKid
If you guys say so but there is a guy I know that burned holes in his pistons W/ the same setup. $6000 out of pocket isn't cheap.

Maybe he had a problem somewhere else in his system?

[larryd]

yeah.. its 36/22.. the only problem I could forsee would be fuel puddling and from lookin at the inside of the intake manifold, its an open chamber, so that shouldnt be a problem..

only flaw i found with your diagram is it doesnt contain things like fuel pressure safety switch, WOT switch, and window switch, all of which i recommend to run nitrous safely. :)

[MaasNeotek]

Trust Larry on this one.

Wot Switch - Get it or lose the motor. If you aren't running at WOT - you can't guarantee that the ECU is dumping full rich. Thats a sure fire way to do 'unknown' damage. Run WOT only. Period.

Window Switch - Either the APEX'i rev speed, or the - Dammit.. Larry - which did you use? The MSD RPM Window switch needs to be wired to the coil line on one of the injectors - so I'm not thrilled with touching it... APEX'i and the one Larry used are good. Run N20 at too low an rpm - bad scene. Too high (close to revlimit) you run the risk of squeezing at fuel cut/rev limit which is unknown territory. I'd recommend 3500/4000 to 7600/7800 on a GTS just in time to drop a gear.

Pressure cutoff - Good Idea - though not critical given 35-50 shots - more - get one. The Celi fuel system is 40psi constant pressure, so unless you have a total failure.. (which would be bad anyway it's not 100% useful)

Intake Puddling - Not unless you are using a sh!t system. NX atomizes the fuel exceptionally well. It's essentially a gas when it goes into the manifold from the fogger nozzle.

Jacking A/F ratios? - Unlikely - unless there is a REAL problem. Since the decent wet systems inject metered amounts of fuel and n20 simultaneously, unless you are running overpressure on the bottle (>1100psi) - The nozzles will ensure that you have enough fuel to completely burn the n20. (or vice versa technically - but since the fuel is constant with fuel pressure, and the nitrous is maxxed at >1100 psi - you err on the side of fuel...)

My first 1-2 2-3 on N20 my A/F was pinned rich all the way.
I didn't meter egt's - that comes in the spring.

good explanations MaasNeotek, questions:

what is a WOT? what does it stand for? what does a window switch do? thanks in advance...:cool:

[Slant]

Originally posted by Jusone36
good explanations MaasNeotek, questions:

what is a WOT? what does it stand for? what does a window switch do? thanks in advance...:cool:


WOT = Wide Open Throttle.
Windows switch allows you to spray within a set rpm range without using a button.

ohhhh...okey dokey. window switch as in a pre-determined window period :)

[larryd]

exactly.. the one I had and actually still have sitting in my garage is a Mallory Window Switch.. it works very well.. only thing you need to do is also wire an inline horn relay to up the amperage or youll blow the window switch like i did on my first one..

[Slant]

Larry, are planning on using it b/c I'd take it off your hands for a little $$$.

[RedNOSceli]

Originally posted by larryd
yeah.. its 36/22.. the only problem I could forsee would be fuel puddling and from lookin at the inside of the intake manifold, its an open chamber, so that shouldnt be a problem..

only flaw i found with your diagram is it doesnt contain things like fuel pressure safety switch, WOT switch, and window switch, all of which i recommend to run nitrous safely. :)

I thought about adding those, but this was in paint, so it took a while..Also, im a bargin shopper, I just press my button at full throttle and let off when I shift at about 8k..Ill be runnin tomorrow night...Wish me luck..Hoping to beat my 13.8XX@105ish i think it was. My best NA run was 14.706 so I should drop a full second.

[larryd]

Originally posted by Slant
Larry, are planning on using it b/c I'd take it off your hands for a little $$$.

no im not plannin on using it.. its brand new in box never been used.. new cost is 90 + S&H.. Ill take 70+ S&H.. email me at larrydougherty@yahoo.com if yer interested.

[Slant]

Originally posted by RedNOSceli
They said use a .036 N02 Jet, and a .022 fuel Jet hooked up to the stock fuel system...

Can someone explain what that means?

[larryd]

jets are the little well... uhm jets :).. they sit inside the nozzle and only allow x amount of nitrous and fuel throug.. thats what defines how much shot your running.. .036 is bigger then the .022 one is nitrous, one is for fuel :)

[oldster]

It is the measurement of the diameter of the orifice. The diameters will dictate the ratio of which the fuel and nitrous is injected.

[ArchangelX]

Great Diagram.

Let's me get a little more clearer idea of what's gonna be happening this summer to my car.

I've got all that plus all the goodies from NX...Can't friggin wait.

Good luck on your runs, my man.

[zooq]

what do you guys recomend for my direct port )?i'm using 22 fuel/22 nitrous and i'm running way too rich.
BTW,Larry someone might buy my celi for 18500 and i'm thinking of a buying a GSX or a GST .have you had any problems with yours? and is crankwalk that common on DSMs?

[larryd]

i had a wierd problem with mine.. first week I had it, the crank pulley fell apart.. like literally it broke into like 10 pieces.. wierd ****.. as for crankwalk.. its a problem.. thats an evil word that i hope I never ever ever have to deal with.. if your lookin for info on DSMs.. check out

www.dsmtalk.com
www.dsmtuners.com

as for direct port on the Celica.. I suggest calling NOS tech and asking them what they recommend for the required fuel/nitrous jets for direct port.. they should be able to tell ya..

[zooq]

thanks

[Phaseshift]

When you're running WOT with say a 50 shot, how do you know for sure you're getting the correct A/F ratio that gives you optimal gain and not running lean?

[larryd]

the only way to know for sure would be with either an EGT ot Air/Fuel gauge like the Greddy Air/Fuel that actually shows the reading, the Autometer is junk.. but ofcourse I didnt have either of these.. I just assumed that I was running ok, though I know I was running rich..

[ArchangelX]

Welps...

I've already talked to my local shop...Fastlane..to see what was really super necessary to run the car with the safest and most durable route.

First...you've gotta make sure you've got all the necessary gauges. You're looking at a GOOD A/F gauge like what LarryD mentioned....the Greddy is the best A/F gauge out there..not like one of those cheap ass autometers. The Greddy comes with it's own O2 sensor...so that you don't have to depend on the stock sensor.

Then getting a few other gauges will help out too like Oil and Fuel pressure. Caution is the way to go...

And then...you've GOT to get it taken to the dyno..and get that baby tuned to perfection. Half of the money I'm saving right now is going to Dyno time, cuz I want it perfect. Or at least close to it. :D

Jeez..I'm getting chills just thinking about it.

[larryd]

hehe.. speed is around the corner :)

[Phaseshift]

Originally posted by larryd
the only way to know for sure would be with either an EGT ot Air/Fuel gauge like the Greddy Air/Fuel that actually shows the reading, the Autometer is junk.. but ofcourse I didnt have either of these.. I just assumed that I was running ok, though I know I was running rich..

What's EGT?

So I need Oil, Fuel, A/F meters.... what other components are needed to run N20 catiously?

Should I get these components first before I install an N20 system?

[larryd]

EGT = exhaust gas temperature.. its actually a better way of telling wether or not your car is running lean or rich..

[Phaseshift]

Originally posted by larryd
EGT = exhaust gas temperature.. its actually a better way of telling wether or not your car is running lean or rich..

if exhaust temp is to lower from nominal, lean?
if exhaust temp is to higher from nominal, rich?

on WOT, is the engine always is running rich?

[RedNOSceli]

Originally posted by Phaseshift


if exhaust temp is to lower from nominal, lean?
if exhaust temp is to higher from nominal, rich?

on WOT, is the engine always is running rich?

Lean will run hotter and rich will run cooler I believe, but the exhaust will be hotter when you use nitrous anyway, so im not sure how the exhaust temp could be usefull unless you know what temp it should be at when you run the bottle..

[larryd]

yeah.. if its running to hot then your running lean, if its running to cold then your running rich.. not sure how nitrous plays into the equation..

[Phaseshift]

Still somewhat confused. I want to run N2O without hurting my internals, and being sure I'm running the correct A/F ratio at WOT, so that I don't run lean, would make feel better when I have the setup installed.

Also, I was reading some websites on Nitrous setups, and one site had an engineer talk about retarding the ignition. I'm not quit sure how retarding the ignition would help? Does this depend on how much N2O I'll be running? I plan to run the lowest settings possible for N2O, just to get enought boost from 140hp to 200. I'm not really excited about pushing the limits. I think 200hp is good enough for me.

[kuruptgt]

nitrous express comes with an optional tps switch to turn at wot. would you still need a wot switch

[larryd]

I believe its the asme thing.. a little box with a metal trigger on it that taps something when the throttle hits WOT..

[Lilsupra]

It's not NOS that kills the engine...its the engine killin the engine!!!! Think about it...NOS is a performance upgrade considering you build your engine strong enough to withstand its power...NOS is a gas...what the heck can it do by itself...the reason why u see so much failure is the fact that people do not take extra precautions..in some instances the engine itself is not able to hold up the power...This goes out to PRO Tools kid...you just seem to be giving up with the most economical way of making a car faster...it just bothers me to hear people say "oh yeah NOS will blow up your engine" my 2 cents READ A BOOK...essentially NOS was not designed for the GTS, and yes there are many people with ballz out there...

[Erik00AutoGT-S]

Originally posted by larryd
exactly.. the one I had and actually still have sitting in my garage is a Mallory Window Switch.. it works very well.. only thing you need to do is also wire an inline horn relay to up the amperage or youll blow the window switch like i did on my first one..

Larry,
Can you explain a bit more about the horn relay to push up the amperage. If a horn relay pushes the amperage "up", how can you burn the window switch? I have the NX system that I'll install soon. The only thing I'm trying to find is this Mallory Window Switch... and I don't want to burn it! Please explain...

Do you still have your Mallory Switch for sale?

Thanks.

[larryd]

nah my switch is long gone.. as for the horn relay.. I dont know how to explain it.. just what Mallory told me to do.. something about the voltage output being not right for nitrous solenoid and the window switch

[Erik00AutoGT-S]

Originally posted by larryd
nah my switch is long gone.. as for the horn relay.. I dont know how to explain it.. just what Mallory told me to do.. something about the voltage output being not right for nitrous solenoid and the window switch

Thanks for the quick answer. One last question. Where would you put the horn relay exactly? In line between the battery and the Window Switch? Are all horn relay the same? Any horn relay would do the job?

Thanks again

[larryd]

yes.. in between the 2, the nitrous solenoid and the window switch that is.. if you get the Mallory switch it comes with a booklet that has a digram for installing the nitrous kit.. it shows it on there as an HR122 or soemthing like that

[Erik00AutoGT-S]

Originally posted by larryd
yes.. in between the 2, the nitrous solenoid and the window switch that is.. if you get the Mallory switch it comes with a booklet that has a digram for installing the nitrous kit.. it shows it on there as an HR122 or soemthing like that

Thanks Larry

[larryd]

np

i love this thread! so informative & detail :)

[cruzerz545]

nice, now make one for a turbo.
;-)

[kuruptgt]

...NOS is a gas...

no its a liquid thats why n20 bottles have to be angled at a certain way for the siphon tube in side the bottle to pick up liquid nitrous. i ordered the NX kit also and i didn't get the window switch i just got the WOT switch. i had n20 before with just the wot switch and i never had problems but i don't care about my motor so if you want to be safe get the window switch it can't hurt nothin. i also have one of those autometer a/f guages how come tey suck mine seems to suck i just don't kow why??

[cruzerz545]

actually, your both wrong. NOS is a brand name. Nitrous is a liquid.

[oldster]

How about we just say it is stored as a liquid and released as a gas, just like propane. At least I don't ever remember the dentist offering me a drink of nitrous. :chuckles:

[Slant]

If you wanna get picky about the damn thing, there's no such thing as nitrous... it's nitrous oxide... eveyone just calls it "nitrous"
Just like everyone calls it NOS.
C'mon, :whogives:

[BoyRacer]

dont mind sam.......he always has a stick up his ass.

[RedNOSceli]

back from the dead

[selika2000]

That is a very good diagram Joe. Made the whole process easier to understand, since it never made much sense to me. :)

[Bryan H]

como es full throttle switch?
BTW the fuel line should be short then the nitrous line
saves motors

[RedNOSceli]

Originally posted by Bryan H
como es full throttle switch?
BTW the fuel line should be short then the nitrous line
saves motors

Ive heard that from a lot of people....seems logical condisering the huge pressure difference

[Bryan H]

fuel is a densor matter then nitrous. takes it longer to reach the "fogger nozzle" then it does with something thats lighter and at 1000 psi.

just food for thought.
better to start off rich then go dead lean and try and make up for it