Pre-production pics from turbo kit! [Archive]

David Draper

01-16-2002, 05:22 PM

Here are the first pictures of the mockup of the turbo manifold, intercoolers (actually the intercoolers look pretty much like the final product will), and intercooler piping.

http://www.wctoyotasport.com/clients/ncorg/turbo/turbo1_small.jpg Click here for larger picture (http://www.wctoyotasport.com/clients/ncorg/turbo/turbo1.jpg)

http://www.wctoyotasport.com/clients/ncorg/turbo/turbo2_small.jpg Click here for larger picture (http://www.wctoyotasport.com/clients/ncorg/turbo/turbo2.jpg)

http://www.wctoyotasport.com/clients/ncorg/turbo/turbo3_small.jpg Click here for larger picture (http://www.wctoyotasport.com/clients/ncorg/turbo/turbo3.jpg)

http://www.wctoyotasport.com/clients/ncorg/turbo/turbo4_small.jpg Click here for larger picture (http://www.wctoyotasport.com/clients/ncorg/turbo/turbo4.jpg)

http://www.wctoyotasport.com/clients/ncorg/turbo/turbo5_small.jpg Click here for larger picture (http://www.wctoyotasport.com/clients/ncorg/turbo/turbo5.jpg)

http://www.wctoyotasport.com/clients/ncorg/turbo/turbo6_small.jpg Click here for larger picture (http://www.wctoyotasport.com/clients/ncorg/turbo/turbo6.jpg)

http://www.wctoyotasport.com/clients/ncorg/turbo/turbo7_small.jpg Click here for larger picture (http://www.wctoyotasport.com/clients/ncorg/turbo/turbo7.jpg)

It's all junky lookin' right at the moment, but these are the pre-production pieces, so no polishing has been done....heck, the pipes aren't even totally sealed on some of it, so, this isn't a truly good depiction of the final product, but I thought you'd want to see them.

Also, I've negotiated to get the tuner of the Axis Wheels MR2 Spyder and Billwick's Celica GT to tune this kit! :D I'm very happy to have him on board, since he's been doing forced induction on the 1ZZ since it first came out. He also happens to work at the company that produces the computers that are being used in the kit, so he knows exactly what to use, where to hook it up, and all that.

Also!, I've been talking with one of TRD's engine builders about doing a project vehicle once the turbo kit for the 1ZZ is out. We may explore forced induction for the 2ZZ, although we may not if Blitz is set to release their's....but we'll see.

That's about it for now! :)

David

Keyshawn

01-16-2002, 06:11 PM

David,
Thanks for the update. Looks good! You guys are getting really close to having this thing become a reality. Good luck!:)

ProToolsKid

01-16-2002, 06:19 PM

YES, YES, YES......... Turbogasm. :D

Now all we need it to get the manifold Ceramic coated and the intake pipes powdercoated or polished for Maxium Optical stimulation.

Have you decided on Injectors Yet?

Never Summer

01-16-2002, 06:30 PM

I AM GOING TO HAVE A TURBO:D AND $500 FOR NEW TIRES FROM BURNING ALL THE RUBBER OFF TESTING IT OUT MAHAHAHA:cool:

Keyshawn

01-16-2002, 06:44 PM

Also!, I've been talking with one of TRD's engine builders about doing a project vehicle once the turbo kit for the 1ZZ is out. We may explore forced induction for the 2ZZ, although we may not if Blitz is set to release their's....but we'll see.

That's about it for now! :)

David

I for one hope you pursue a 2ZZ turbo kit once you finish the 1ZZ. We can never have too many options as far as major power-adders go.

BlackGT

01-16-2002, 07:40 PM

David: congrats! Glad to see this is actually a reality and not a pipe dream.

I have been trying to contact you about the intercoolers, I have some questions about them and possible piping issues. Could you please e-mail me or PM me. I have the money ready, just need to talk with you about a few things.

Hope everything is well with your wife!

-Tim

Oo DaRk StAr oO

01-17-2002, 10:20 AM

Maelfyn

01-17-2002, 12:59 PM

Looks fast! Let's hope it actually is. ;)

MattTheTerror

01-17-2002, 03:07 PM

Is this gona fit the mr2 spyder to?!?!?!?!??!
/me donces and hopes :)

SpY2

01-17-2002, 04:08 PM

Ditto! There's lots of Spyder owners who would like a turbo. :) You guys might wanna look into it. Check out www.spyderchat.com.

oldster

01-17-2002, 04:28 PM

Any input on the GT-S turbo you guys are working on?

Fourgig

01-18-2002, 09:55 PM

I've asked this a few times already...so I guess I'll keep asking until I get an answer.

ARE YOU GOING TO DYNO THE GT BEFORE YOU PUT THE TURBO ON??

"After" dynos won't mean squat if you don't have a baseline to compare to.

Oo DaRk StAr oO

01-18-2002, 11:16 PM

Were doing an MR2 kit a Corolla kit and a GTS kit.

No flames please...
Ill be the GTS Prototype. Don't ask hehehehehheee... gave a long reason on TC.org why I moved to the 2ZZGE but we should get the GTS kit going in about a Month.

Matt

oldster

01-19-2002, 02:33 AM

Originally posted by Fourgig
I've asked this a few times already...so I guess I'll keep asking until I get an answer.

ARE YOU GOING TO DYNO THE GT BEFORE YOU PUT THE TURBO ON??

"After" dynos won't mean squat if you don't have a baseline to compare to.

I agree but if it hasn't been done it would seem too late?? Also why do the pictures show a custom intake if you will be using the stock airbox?

Oo DaRk StAr oO

01-19-2002, 04:28 PM

I have an AEM CAI so when we went into hotshot to get the work done they did it with that. David figures most people will have a stock airbox so they will make the production kit from that perspective.

Dyno's... Well this could go the same... anyone that has a stock automatic GT with a Dyno slip can post it... and then we'll post ours with the turbo installed.

oldster

01-19-2002, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by Oo DaRk StAr oO
I have an AEM CAI so when we went into hotshot to get the work done they did it with that. David figures most people will have a stock airbox so they will make the production kit from that perspective.

Dyno's... Well this could go the same... anyone that has a stock automatic GT with a Dyno slip can post it... and then we'll post ours with the turbo installed.

Having someone elses dyno lacks the drama that comes with a before and after for the same car. Then you see an accurate representation of exactly what the kit did for a given car. This was brought up on a number of occaisions, guess it doesn't matter. So when you do your dyno will it be with the AEM or the stock air box?

larryd

01-19-2002, 08:38 PM

lookin good guys.. just 2 questions

1) in the picture that shows the turbo manifold, arent the pipes supposed to be equal length?? Im just curious, I know its a bitch for space, just trying to get my facts straight :)

2) what does the stock airbox have anything to do with the turbo setup?? would you really wanna keep the stock air box if you were adding a turbo instead of just putting a filter in place like that one is or lower it into a CAI?? maybe a drop down section like a removable lower piping with strong clamps???

Oo DaRk StAr oO

01-19-2002, 08:45 PM

I wana put a RAM air in personally but I think what David is doing is trying to make this as cost effective as possible. To me a nice Ram air intake would be awesome.

larryd

01-19-2002, 09:45 PM

just wouldnt make sense to not add on a conical filter.. i mean hell theres a few hp to be made out of a conical filter instead of something really restrictive when it comes to turbo..

oldster

01-19-2002, 10:08 PM

Keep the project going. Suggestion, do a dyno on the combination that is going to be sold, otherwise it's meaningless to the buyer.

larryd

01-19-2002, 11:31 PM

yes..dynos are good..

Archon_Ninja

01-20-2002, 02:01 AM

http://www.plauder-smilies.de/jump.gif

David Draper

01-20-2002, 01:22 PM

Well, this kit has hit it's first real snag....

If the manifold is left "as is", and the turbo is left in that position, people would be forced to cut the center pipe-the pipe that connects the exhaust manifold, or in this case turbo manifold, with the muffler....UNACCEPTABLE!

That means I will have to do one of two things:

(1) Turn the turbo around, and U-turn the intake-to-turbo and turbo-to-intercooler pipes. This may be the best solution, since I think very little would have to be done to the manifold to accomodate this. The downpipe would be a fairly sharp 80 degree bend, and would only be about 6 inches long, if that, but that would be the fastest method.

(2) Rework the manifold, so that the entire turbo is moved toward the driver's side of the car almost a foot. The more I keep looking at this, the less I think this is going to be viable solution. This solution would keep the turbo facing in the correct direction, but I think there wouldn't be enough space to accomodate the piping. This would make for a more direct install, but I think it would be totally ineffective.

So....for those who want to play at home :biggrin , imagine the turbo (just as pictured in the first post) turned 180 degrees, so that the two pipes that have to go to the turbocharger are coming in from the driver's side, going past (under, over, whatever) the turbo, and hooking back around to the turbo....

Definitely an annoyance! I'm hashing out the particulars at this point, trying to figure out how everything will fit in there....It obviously does, but I don't know if the other people who did this modified the center pipe. If I didn't have to do that, we could actually install all the piping and the turbo ASAP, but I think the prospect of cutting that pipe, although it would cost little to do, may discourage people from getting the kit, and I don't want that, so.....I'll keep workin' on it.

David

Keyshawn

01-20-2002, 01:39 PM

Thanks for the update. Hope you solve that problem soon.

David Draper

01-20-2002, 01:56 PM

I did mean to address these too,

The manifold really is equal length when you have the sucker in your hands and you can examine it, although I keep hearing from a LOT of different sources, that with this low a boost, this small an engine, and this size turbo, that the equal length part isn't really very important.

Of course, I already know, everyone want's equal length, so that's what they're going to get! :biggrin

With regard the intake....well, the way I see it, people will enjoy this a lot more if there is something they can do with it after they get it installed.

On a stock car, I'm hoping for 230hp at the crank. Of course, add some kind of conical filter (Injen maybe) and a good exhaust, and you'll have better gains.

But, if I included the intake and exhaust and everything else, well, what fun would that be!? :biggrin

Also, everyone has their own ideas about what's "better". Some guys will want an Injen filter, some AEM, and some will try other things, or will have other piping done.

The advantage I see is three-fold.

First, of course, is price.

Second, the ability to customize the kit will be left to the consumer, allowing them to leave it almost stock in appearance, or go nuts with all the bits and pieces. Really, only one or two pipes will be the indicators that the car isn't quite factory...

And third, to "remove" the kit, if need be, you'd remove the two intake pipes, the manifold/turbo/downpipe assembly, and the intercooler. Put back the stock exhaust manifold and stock intake boot, and you're done. The ECU could stay, and injectors could stay, and that's it.

Good for smogability and that sort of thing in case it takes forever to get through CARB.

That's about it....Of course, uh, if a $50 Injen filter made a 20hp difference....well, you'd probably see a cone in the kit :biggrin

David

Originally posted by larryd
lookin good guys.. just 2 questions

1) in the picture that shows the turbo manifold, arent the pipes supposed to be equal length?? Im just curious, I know its a bitch for space, just trying to get my facts straight :)

2) what does the stock airbox have anything to do with the turbo setup?? would you really wanna keep the stock air box if you were adding a turbo instead of just putting a filter in place like that one is or lower it into a CAI?? maybe a drop down section like a removable lower piping with strong clamps???

Xlr8_10

01-20-2002, 03:59 PM

lookin daym good Dave!

I'll brb, i think i just sh*t my pants.. :paranoid :shocked :biggrin

keep up the gud werk

Keyshawn

01-20-2002, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by David Draper

On a stock car, I'm hoping for 230hp at the crank. Of course, add some kind of conical filter (Injen maybe) and a good exhaust, and you'll have better gains.

So that would be around the 200 hp mark at the wheels, right? Not too bad. How much boost will the kit be running to generate that much hp?

larryd

01-20-2002, 07:13 PM

not bad.. 230crank horse power if it comes true :).. thats a little less then I was pushing with the nitrous.. close to 240crank hp.. only diff was instantaneous power.. :)

questions

1) what psi are you guestimating??

2) stock internals or no??

3) still planning on limiting boost with ECU??

David Draper

01-20-2002, 07:37 PM

The original plan was for 6 psi, but that was using a T28.....with the extra air flow of the T3, we may lower it to around 5.5, but only the testing will tell us for sure.

The stock internals will be utilized, HOWEVER (big 'cause it's important) there is a company that is planning to sell prepped blocks, with low compression pistons, super-duper connecting rods, reinforced crank and reinforced cylinder walls....

If that happens, people could easily push a daily-driven 300hp, with more available periodically, like at the track.

Even with the unbelievable pricing we're getting on many of the system components, a really good wastegate like an HKS is going to tack on an extra $100 just to our cost, which leaves me with the inexpensive options-namely Deltagate and Tial.

Delta blows goats, so Tial is going to be the way to go. However, it's spring actuated, with them sending me the springs already preloaded for a certain PSI. Changing the boost level is a simple matter of changing the springs, but we're going to have some tamper-evident thing-a-ma-jig on it so we'll know for sure if you've changed the spring yourself.

This method would be the most cost-effective and simplistic.

I'm looking into ECU adjustable wastegates, perhaps as an option, even if just so people have the option to buy the better wastegate up front.

Complicated! Lots to get through, and I'm on a schedule that doesn't happen to have much time built in for R&D....

David

Andwele

01-20-2002, 09:56 PM

The Tail 35mm I think is set to 6psi (know a few people that run them). The only other way to turn up the boost is some cheap home depo boost controler. On your manifold your just move it over and make the runners longer since it's goin to be equal lenth. It shouldn't be too hard just change the design a lil.

X-EVIL-X

01-21-2002, 01:12 AM

it doesn't look like a strut bar can fit in the engine bay with the turbo in it???

ProToolsKid

01-21-2002, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by Andwele
The Tail 35mm I think is set to 6psi (know a few people that run them). The only other way to turn up the boost is some cheap home depo boost controler. On your manifold your just move it over and make the runners longer since it's goin to be equal lenth. It shouldn't be too hard just change the design a lil.
even if you figure out a way to adjust the wastegate to get more boost I think this kit is set up so the computer will open the BOV if the pressure gets above 6PSI. I might be wrong though.

ProToolsKid

01-21-2002, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by X-EVIL-X
it doesn't look like a strut bar can fit in the engine bay with the turbo in it???

Looks like one will fit fine to me.

SilverNico

01-23-2002, 06:18 PM

David,

Any updates on the first 'snag' the kit ran into?

I am sure many among myself are curious!

Thanks!

phillytec

01-23-2002, 07:54 PM

ANy updates? Price? WHo is makeing the lower compression pistons and have you contacted Weapon R they are working on piggy back ECU.

David Draper

01-23-2002, 08:30 PM

The snag will probably be taken care of next week. I've got to get some time inside an engine bay, and I need a volunteer....

Next week, I think....

David

oldster

01-23-2002, 09:00 PM

Originally posted by David Draper
The snag will probably be taken care of next week. I've got to get some time inside an engine bay, and I need a volunteer....

Next week, I think....

David

As in physically in the engine bay or another car to volunteer or both?:confused:

Keyshawn

01-23-2002, 10:17 PM

Oo DaRk StAr oO

01-23-2002, 10:54 PM

Different thing. He needs the car to look at. No turbo will go in he needs to check spacing out on the manifold and center pipe. Most likely i'll let him have my car depending on how the sale of my car goes on Friday. IF my car gets sold friday he'll have the one im selling to look at. Just a back up plan.

Matt

PS: GTS didn't go through. After talking with David for a good hour we decided that the GT was going to be a better place for me so... in the future... there might be a GTS kit. We are going to wait a few months and see what develops with Blitz and other companies.

xi KiNG ix

01-23-2002, 10:58 PM

Oo DaRk StAr oO

01-23-2002, 11:02 PM

No sir... David Draper and I decided its a no go Ill stick with the GT.

oldster

01-23-2002, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by Oo DaRk StAr oO
Different thing. He needs the car to look at. No turbo will go in he needs to check spacing out on the manifold and center pipe. Most likely i'll let him have my car depending on how the sale of my car goes on Friday. IF my car gets sold friday he'll have the one im selling to look at. Just a back up plan.

Matt

PS: GTS didn't go through. After talking with David for a good hour we decided that the GT was going to be a better place for me so... in the future... there might be a GTS kit. We are going to wait a few months and see what develops with Blitz and other companies.

I have lost all track of which car has what happening to it. Please simplify for me, what car is going to have the turbo in it? If your selling your car Friday does it have a turbo in it? Is this the one that was going to the GF? I'm totally confused as to what is happening with this project.:confused:

Keyshawn

01-24-2002, 12:02 AM

Originally posted by oldster

I have lost all track of which car has what happening to it. Please simplify for me, what car is going to have the turbo in it? If your selling your car Friday does it have a turbo in it? Is this the one that was going to the GF? I'm totally confused as to what is happening with this project.:confused:

I'm a little confused, too. I think DarkStar gets REALLY excited about stuff and maybe goes a little overboard on the "What If's" of a situation. (No offense, man) That might be why we're hearing so many different things.

Maelfyn

01-24-2002, 03:15 AM

Turbos in a GT? Twin turbo? Turbo GT-S? Turbo 5spd or automatic? Both? Engine swapped 3S-GTE? Corolla S? MR2 Spyder? Matrix? AWD 6spd matrix drivetrain mated to a 1zz turbo? http://www.plaudersmilies.de/sad/confused5.gif

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid28/pc2b7da921e1b37ba1f630f2c8540137a/fdfa1092.jpg.orig.jpg

xi KiNG ix

01-24-2002, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by Maelfyn
Turbos in a GT? Twin turbo? Turbo GT-S? Turbo 5spd or automatic? Both? Engine swapped 3S-GTE? Corolla S? MR2 Spyder? Matrix? AWD 6spd matrix drivetrain mated to a 1zz turbo? http://www.plaudersmilies.de/sad/confused5.gif

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid28/pc2b7da921e1b37ba1f630f2c8540137a/fdfa1092.jpg.orig.jpg

haha

David Draper

01-24-2002, 06:19 PM

Sorry for the confusion, Matt's still the volunteer, I just need to take a look at his car, and he's a ways away from me. Hopefully Monday....

Other than that....well, not much is happenin' here....

Mostly just tryin' to see if the T3/T4 will fit in the exact same location as the T3....I think so, but it will be close!

Also, I think I've mapped out a way to make the downpipe have a more gentle bend....but, I'll show y'all that later....

David

TRD-GT

01-24-2002, 06:45 PM

david:
my man:bowdown:

if u want i can take pics of xanatos manifold???its a good design...

will the placing of the tubing be ok there...between the engine and the battery, u know when the engine moves and stuff, also i know, this it is still in r&d..but can we get a better idea about the computer stuff....to controll the fuel etc, will this be like a s-afc install, or do we have to change sensor's etc...

and last but not least, and since u are talking about bolt on....and bolt on i want...do we still have to take away the stock studs(the ones that hold the exhaust manifold????)cause if so...u might want to check on that...cause that is not a bolt on proposition:nono:
...its rather hard...especially in the celi, were is very tight....and i know that the stock ones can take 10 psi of force induction, at least xanatos one have, and i am pretty sure that hs is a lot better in designing than the guy that did xanatos one....this is very important to me....i have my money ready....i just need to know what will be involved in this.....i tell u is hard...compare to the rest of the installation....thx david...wuv u:D :rolling: :thumbup:

and let me know when my kit is ready...

p.d.:
i know i have pm u a lot of times, but do u have the red leather covers available yet????:shoot:

i know, i am a pian in the ass, it just that i want them...

David Draper

01-24-2002, 07:22 PM

Originally posted by TRD-GT
david:
my man:bowdown:

if u want i can take pics of xanatos manifold???its a good design...

will the placing of the tubing be ok there...between the engine and the battery, u know when the engine moves and stuff, also i know, this it is still in r&d..but can we get a better idea about the computer stuff....to controll the fuel etc, will this be like a s-afc install, or do we have to change sensor's etc...

and last but not least, and since u are talking about bolt on....and bolt on i want...do we still have to take away the stock studs(the ones that hold the exhaust manifold????)cause if so...u might want to check on that...cause that is not a bolt on proposition:nono:
...its rather hard...especially in the celi, were is very tight....and i know that the stock ones can take 10 psi of force induction, at least xanatos one have, and i am pretty sure that hs is a lot better in designing than the guy that did xanatos one....this is very important to me....i have my money ready....i just need to know what will be involved in this.....i tell u is hard...compare to the rest of the installation....thx david...wuv u:D :rolling: :thumbup:

and let me know when my kit is ready...

p.d.:
i know i have pm u a lot of times, but do u have the red leather covers available yet????:shoot:

i know, i am a pian in the ass, it just that i want them...

Alright, let me try and get it all here.... :)

Won't need Xanatos pics, but thank you for the offer.

Yeah, the piping will be fine. The piping will be attached to the engine, so as it moves, the piping will too. The battery may have to be in a specific place, depending upon exactly how this gets laid out.

The ECU will be similar in installation to the S-AFC, but will have more wires. No new sensors will be needed.

The studs were suggested because the flange on the manifold is going to be a half inch thick, which is thicker than stock. All the same, I'm going to verify that there is no alternative before making people swap the studs....

The red covers are on their way! Should be here in February....

I'll keep ya posted ;)

David

Xlr8_10

01-24-2002, 09:06 PM

hey that lil "inconceivable!" guy is frum the Princes Bride!:rolling: :rolling:

ahhh.. i love that movie!

well anyways, David, i was wondering what exactly you were planning to be available in the upgrade package thingy or if that was still the plan.

S-AFC? clutch? accessory type items or anything of that sort?? it would be kinda nice to know what i should/could be buying in preperation.

other than that good work man! cant wait. :D

oldster

01-25-2002, 02:00 AM

Originally posted by David Draper
Sorry for the confusion, Matt's still the volunteer, I just need to take a look at his car, and he's a ways away from me. Hopefully Monday....

Other than that....well, not much is happenin' here....

Mostly just tryin' to see if the T3/T4 will fit in the exact same location as the T3....I think so, but it will be close!

Also, I think I've mapped out a way to make the downpipe have a more gentle bend....but, I'll show y'all that later....

David

So that means that the first WCToyota Turbo will still be on an auto GT?

David Draper

01-25-2002, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by oldster

So that means that the first WCToyota Turbo will still be on an auto GT?

Yep! :D

Red-one

01-25-2002, 11:13 AM

David D. Your sugestion on changing the studs is for a thicker set or longer ones. I think this proposition its too much of a hasle for the average Joe including most shops; bc's it may involve removing the cilinder head and sending it to a machine shop....
Are you sure you want to do that?
Hondas have the same lenght studs and still DRAG makes an awsome exh manifold....

If thats the only way then it's not a bolt-on affair, but still negotiable....

BRGS and Thnx's

RED

TRD-GT

01-25-2002, 10:37 PM

ah, rafa, right on the target man, listen to me david....for just one sec, you are saying that u will redesign the mnifold so that no modifications are necessary, to install the turbo, u want it to be bolt on as much as possible...i like that...i want it like that....better yet my money is ready take it from my hands...but, and this a big but, i need u to plz talk to hs, and i they dont want to redo-it, at least tell them to make the exhaust manifold less thick where the bolts go(u and i know, that could make or destroy the kit, since not everybody and can work those hassles)...

to be honest i want to get the first production kit, i dont want any body else to test i want to test it, i want to be the guinea pig, and i want to install it, i got the experience and the tools to do it, plus i got more than one mechanoc helping me, plus i got xanatos,....i want ot take as many pisc and help as much as i can in the install.....and post it....and i got the money.....to do it now...but that little thing, that is not so little, and that takes away from the bolt on personality of the kit, has me thinking about it....

at the end, i will hopefully have the first production kit.....if hs cant worked(which would mean that they suck, cause they can do it)i will just take the exhaust manifold to a machine shope, and shaved a little bit of it(where the studs go)and use the stock ones.....to this point and i dont know what is the big deal with that, just make it a little less thick....bolt on...means a lot...

thx man...and let me know when they are ready.....

also could u inform us about the rest of the specs....like the injectors, etc...thx for ur time....

pd:
i;ll be waiting for the red leather covers...i want them...

kuruptgt

01-25-2002, 11:32 PM

i would like the specs for everything. turbo,injectors,manifold,intercooler. whats goin on with the computer, what the piggyback computer is gonna do, where are the oil lines goin for the turbo, what will i have to buy extra,could i use a stand alone unit, what kinda upgrades are there, where is the extra fuel comin from,is the wastegatre external/internal, most important what is this piggy back computer gonna do and what can u do with it. thanx

mike

p.s. oh yea my money is waiting for you also look at the pic there is most of it