GT-S Turbo Kit from David Draper and ooDarkStaroo?!!

[Keyshawn]

What does everyone think of this news? Check this thread: http://www.toyotacelica.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=000006

[Maelfyn]

Interesting. But it's all talk until we see dynos, pics, slips, etc :)

[gts24]

Very interesting indeed. The thought of driving my car without lift is .... well wierd to even think about. In any case I could deal without if boost took me places...

[Celica RZ]

VVL is disabled....the GTS would be making less HP compared to the GT. peak power below 6000rpm on the GTS is about 110hp compared to GT engine peak power is usually around 120hp (comparing Jesse, IL stock dyno with DaksGT stock dyno). besides lower comp pistons it would require new cams. without new cams there's no point in revving beyond 6000rpms. and if you do rev beyond 6000rpm there's the possibility of the valves slapping the pistons because the VVT programming is different on the 2nd cam from the 1st cam. so it would require a new ECU also (GT ECU?). Granted the 2zz engine head may flow better but without the 2nd cam, in street trim at least, you'd be better off starting with a GT if you were going to do this. a better idea may be to disable the VVT like SCC's project Matrix.

[Keyshawn]

Maelfyn,
Yeah, you're right. It's probably just an idea that's being kicked around right now, since David Draper hasn't mentioned anything yet. A kit that includes the removal of VVTLi lift and pistons to lower compression is an interesting idea, though.

[Keyshawn]

Celica RZ,
Didn't know that SCC was planning to disable VVT in their turbo Matrix. Could you point out which issue they discuss this in, so I can read up on it? By the way, that SCC editor hasn't gotten back to me about that question you had. He might be too busy to answer right now.

[Celica RZ]

It was part 1 or their Project Matrix (two issues back?), towards the end. They were talking about the high comp ratio and turbo and how they needed a stand alone management system. They choose the TECII which only has one general output so they decided they would need to disconnect the VVT and keep the VVL since they couldn't keep both.

[t2000gts]

removing lift is a retarded idea, IMHO. the VVTL-i head is more or less the main distinguishing feature between the 1ZZ and 2ZZ (although yeah the rest of the engine's different too to fit the head).

you would need to put a rev limiter in there at 6000-6500rpm, 7000rpm at most. the non-lift cam lobes make no power that high, changing the cams, would give you other side effects like a rough idle, maybe mess with fuel economy, etc. in other words, just taking lift out would give you a car that's weaker than the GT. taking lift out, and changing base cam profile to something aggressive would be like running in ONLY the lift cam profile the entire time, and you'd have tons of low-end problems (if you wanted to rev to 7000+rpm and make power that is).

what's the point? a turbo GTS w/o lift would be slower than a turbo GT, and would get raped by a normal GTS with a 50 shot of nitrous. plus way too much work to be worth it. you'd need a major ECU rehaul.

EDIT: removing VVT-i would be a better idea. need massive tuning effort though. it'd be like VTEC compared to i-VTEC.

[larryd]

bah.. a turbo Celica GTS with no lift would be no fun.. really just get another turbo car if that was that case.. I love having turbo eclipse, only thing I miss is that kick at 6000 :)

[Maelfyn]

I think this entire thread begs the question, "How is the Type R doing it?"

The engine is very similar to the GT-S in terms of compression, big bore/short stroke. I think this draws a lot of parallels to a GSR/Type R versus a GT/GT-S.

[celicajr2002]

YE HAW

i dont care what i need to sacrifice *minor things like lift* unless i can have TURBO enough to beat a pos mustang :D

[00VVTL-i]

well guys, a buddy of mine did a custom turbo on his Echo. we had to change out the injectors, disable the vvt-i and run an entirely new Motec Tec-II engine management system.... but the car runs like a beat now.... I'm sure that with the proper tuning the car will run just fine without the lift. it's just a thought... so you guys dont need to get your panties all in a bunch or anything... talk to ya later


Paul

[larryd]

hey i saw that car at NOPI.. dude is from MD right?? hehe.. Im still sticking to the original turbo without lift is no fun.. if your gonna do that,just buy a turbo car..

[gts24]

I agree with larry, what is the point of having a GT-S if you have no lift. That is the point of this car. Turbo Si's and R's just have a much improved lift..... that is what we need.
go ahead and disable vvt i
I could care less, just dont take my lift or i'm just going higher comp/all motor

[vegeta irie]

You guys are screwing me up
I was gonna trade my GT for a GTS but w/o the lift i just might as well save my money and put it in to the engine what are your opinions on what i should do??

[komar]

so anyone know the progress of this "project"?...the XS celica has lift...am i wrong on this...they added a turbo to the stock bottom end...what is stopping WC from doing the same? keeping lift is or should be a must. with a turbo on the hc already posing a problem, no lift is even worse. on the XS celica, there was lots of planning and research in to the engine, to keep the bottom end as is for the kit to be "bolt on"...@ 6-7 p.s.i. max...6-7 with facoty bottom end is not bad, that give the PPSSSHHH that i look so forward to and the power to back it up with...the XS car puts out 240 to the wheels (i think)...that is 70 more HP than i have...i want a TURBO and i will go or do whatever it takes to get it. When WC starts/ finishes and has the results, or other companies finish with results, that is when i have the Card on the desk or phone ordering...till then I am saving cash, and working on transmission.

Kareem

[oldster]

I believe this whole thing is a non issue since they aren't doing a turbo for the GT-S anyway.

[larryd]

i just had a thought.. how are they planning on disabling the lift anyhow??

[X-EVIL-X]

Originally posted by larryd
i just had a thought.. how are they planning on disabling the lift anyhow??
i could be wrong but when i had my gauge cluster out for two weeks i tried maybe three times to hit lift(not knowing where it was but i had an idea).
it wouldn't kick in at all and im sure i reved to 7k at least.
interesting that it turned it off that way.
in my opinion disabling lift wouldn't be any fun also.
i wouldn't buy a kit that did that!!!
i want the surge of power at 6k still plus a turbo on top of that.
it would just be more fun that way .
this car would be a monster with any kinda of forced induction.
we need all the torque we can get

[David Draper]

If I'm not mistaken, the lift can be disabled quite easily....Just unplug the solenoid that allows the oil flow. It's electronically actuated, so unplugging should do the trick...

David

[monkeywrench]

I still haven't seen any explanation on why everyone says you have to disable the variable lift with a turbo. I have seen many turbo 4-cylinders built with much bigger cams than the GTS's larger lobes- what's the problem?

[oldster]

Originally posted by monkeywrench
I still haven't seen any explanation on why everyone says you have to disable the variable lift with a turbo. I have seen many turbo 4-cylinders built with much bigger cams than the GTS's larger lobes- what's the problem?

I'm just guessing that someone read the info about the drag Celica not using lift and ran with it.

[larryd]

Originally posted by David Draper
If I'm not mistaken, the lift can be disabled quite easily....Just unplug the solenoid that allows the oil flow. It's electronically actuated, so unplugging should do the trick...

David

ok.. but please explain why you would want to disable the lift??

[atehrani]

I don't think you would want to disable the lift, but you would want to disable the variable valve timing.

[oldster]

Originally posted by atehrani
I don't think you would want to disable the lift, but you would want to disable the variable valve timing.

He is talking about disabling the kick in of the second cam which is the lift and is the variable valve timing.

[atehrani]

I don't see why you cannot use lift without varialble valve timing. Lift is the secondary cam lobes that increase the valve openings. Variable valve timing, advances or retards the timing. Reason why we don't have distributors.

We need a good stand alone enginemanagement system. Not these "piggy-back" chips.

[oldster]

Originally posted by atehrani
I don't see why you cannot use lift without varialble valve timing. Lift is the secondary cam lobes that increase the valve openings. Variable valve timing, advances or retards the timing. Reason why we don't have distributors.



I could be wrong but the reason we don't have distributors is because we have coil packs which are electronically fired and controlled from the ECU. Valve timing is a separate issue from ignition timing.