how much slower does this make you??

im trying to figure some stuff out.. namely why my car just doesnt have the umph it used to have..

I raced a friend tonight in a 2nd gear pull we were side by side.. in a 3rd gear pull he pulled on me like 2 cars when I shifted to 4th.. this was the diff..

my car +220lbs or so
different spark plugs (NGK for Nx)
heavier motor oil 10w30 instead of 5w30
heavier tranny oil 80-90 instead of 70-90

thats the only things I can think of that would hurt performance.how much does it hurt is the ?.. I know this is a really generic ?.. im just trying to find ways to comfort myself http://www.newcelica.org/ubb/frown.gif



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220lbs is a whole lot. i bet you could tie him instantly by taking out all that extra weight.

and why didn't you just hit the nos http://www.newcelica.org/ubb/wink.gif

cuz the nitrous isnt installed yet.. 220lbs is alot.. but enough for someone to put a car length on you in one gear?

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well close to it anyway. if i had 220lbs in my car it gets dog slow.

[Dave B]

220lbs with a no toruqe motor = much slower car. Low torque cars are affected by weight much more than a torquer V8. You can expect to be almost .4 slower in the 1/4.


Dave

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96 Maxima SE
14.73@94mph, 2.25 60'
Mods? 176 fwhp/193fwtq

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by larryd:
cuz the nitrous isnt installed yet.. 220lbs is alot.. but enough for someone to put a car length on you in one gear?



I would think so. How'd the compression check go?

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by Dave B:
220lbs with a no toruqe motor = much slower car. Low torque cars are affected by weight much more than a torquer V8. You can expect to be almost .4 slower in the 1/4.


Dave


Wow. I need to lose some weight before running the quarter again. No wonder I can't catch up to the times of some of the Asian Type R owners. http://www.newcelica.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

i havent done a compression check on this engine (new engine) cuz it feels strong.. its just that one run 2nite really disturbed me..

I had a passenger in the car of 170lbs, plus my stereo system 50lbs, + wheels, big brake kit, body kit.. etc etc etc..

I think the only way Ill know for sure is dyno and track time..thats next week..

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my pics (http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/larrydougherty/lst?.dir=/&.view=t)

[Blk00SS]

The Rule of thumb is....

100lbs = 10 Horsepower or .10 Slower in the 1/4th mile

[billybrun]

Cool!!! You've got your car running again. Yeah, lose that unnecesary weight, if it doesn't help you it hurts you<IMG SRC="http://www.newcelica.org/ubb/smilies/cwm1.gif" border=0>

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<IMG SRC="http://brun1.home.mindspring.com/My%20Car/mysig3.jpg" border=0>
Best 1/4 mile time of 14.152@97.69

[dee5330]

You know what? How much of a difference is it really to change from a 10w to 5w? I hear that you do lose a couple of hp when you go 10w. I tried 0w on my car just a couple of weeks ago, and I did notice a big difference. The rpm's jumped faster, and the car starts up much smoother now. No lag anymore that I use to have. Does anyone really know?

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[jonnyc]

personally im thinking there must be something wrong because for a car to get 2 car lengths in one gear is very unusual thats like having an extra 50 hp or so

maybe your friend has a nice round blue bottle sitting in his passenger seat ???

what kinda car was it anyways ??

[PaCelicaGTS]

It could also have alot to do with the light weight flywheel you got. sure your losing weight with it, but its also going to drop your revs alot faster when switching gears.

[kocheroni]

What does the lighter flywheel do? and what exactly is a fly wheel. I'm trying to learn as much about cars as I can. Anyone know where there is a site that tells all the parts of an engine, and what they do, especially one for a celica. I love this stuff. Not many people think weight matters, but it does. think, our car is 2450 pounds or so. If you have 220 extra in there, that's 1/10 the car's weight right there. When you put it that way, that sounds like alot. It's trying to pull an extra 10th of it's weight.

[Novus]

He was testing each gear seprately. No shifting. Therefore, the flywheel is out of the equation. I don't believe it'd be a real part of the equation anyways.

The weight is going to hurt you the most. The different oil weights shouldn't create that much of a difference in frictional power loss. The spark plugs might (and that's a big might) be a problem. If you're really worried about them you might want to try getting another set and doing some experimenting, but I doubt you'll see anything significant.



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Novus
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Spectra Blue Mica GT-S 6spd

[TRlPPlN]

Larry...how light is your toms flywheel. because ill tell you this. i know of someone that lost thier momentum in 3rd gear after he put on his toms 8lbs flywheel. when i ran him (BTW this is celi vs celi) he got me off the launch ( he had DR's) but seriously caught up quick on 3rd and pass bout to pass him up but the track was ending. were both equaly good drivers but seriously he seem to have lost his momentum on 3rd.

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Spectra BLue Celica GTS aka Code Name TC.
Speed Evolution
FUTURE MODS
Shocks...either KYB AGX or Hotchkis.
Wing...I want somethin carbon fiber...other than RMM. Anyone have suggestions??

MODS:
S-AFC
Tanabe Springs
CFH by CF Images
AEM CAI
Greddy Evolution Exhaust

[DaksGT]

Originally posted by dee5330:
You know what? How much of a difference is it really to change from a 10w to 5w? I hear that you do lose a couple of hp when you go 10w. I tried 0w on my car just a couple of weeks ago, and I did notice a big difference. The rpm's jumped faster, and the car starts up much smoother now. No lag anymore that I use to have. Does anyone really know?



I thought the grades had something to do with the temperature. Like 15w 50 summer high performance engines, 10w30 all year, 5w30 winter. I'm running 15 50 is that bad or good?


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2001 Liquid Silver Celica GT 5 spd
1993 Milano Red Civic Hatchback GSR

[dee5330]

Originally posted by DaksGT:
I thought the grades had something to do with the temperature. Like 15w 50 summer high performance engines, 10w30 all year, 5w30 winter. I'm running 15 50 is that bad or good?




I don't think it's bad to run 15w 50, but with our cars being new.....5w 50 is probably the best way to go. Right now I'm usin Mobil 1 0w 50 synthetic. It get's really harsh over here in the winter, so I'd want to have better start-ups.



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[Stripe GT2]

Damn Larry, you just put your car back together and you're racing it already?<IMG SRC="http://www.newcelica.org/ubb/smilies/cwm13.gif" border=0> You're crazy. But anyway glad to hear you got it back together, now bring ya ass to Franklin Mills Meet tomorrow. http://www.newcelica.org/ubb/wink.gif

Tom

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i'm gonna switch to 0w30 again for my upcoming oil change.

how about for summer temps? 15w50 you say? would that be worth it?

well this weekend im planning on changing the oil back to 5w30, the tranny oil back to 70-90, and the spark plugs back to Denso Iridiums.. then im gonna strip the car as if for track and try this again..

btw.. the Toms flywheel is 8lbs.. instead of 18lbs from the factory one.. is momentum something to really be worried about?

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my pics (http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/larrydougherty/lst?.dir=/&.view=t)

[dee5330]

So larry, do you still land in the 2nd cams range with the new flywheel? How much of a difference is it from stock?

t2000gts, wouldn't 15w 50 be too thick? I'd rather go 10w, shoot...I'd rather go 5w in the summer then go 0w in the winter. I'd figure that you wouldn't want all that heavy oil hangin around inside the engine.

Also, has anyone cleaned out the engine with a cleaner? I hear it's good thing to do after the summer.

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http://homepages.mixture.com/dxfionewun/images/newcelicasig.jpg

[PorkchopSpecblue GT-S]

I think its the spark plugs. Our car needs those iridium plugs. By going with the NGK plus it might be good for nitrous but when running N/A its hurting you.

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Kazuma exhuast
Injen CAI
AEM pulley
Painted Calipers
APC clear corners
Apc CF Altezzas
Pioneer keh-p900r
Alpine MRV-1505
(6)JL W-0

[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by larryd:


I think the only way Ill know for sure is dyno and track time..thats next week..



That will tell the tale for sure. Good luck.

[David Draper]

Maybe your thingee's bent? <IMG SRC="http://www.newcelica.org/ubb/smilies/cwm2.gif" border=0>

Inside joke...

[XskoopX]

Momentum is a big deal with a lighter flywheel. Imagine having a tennis ball, you can only spin it so fast. But imagine if you have a basket ball, momentum can also help it carry it when it's spinning. The flywheel is way lighter now. I seen the race with Trippin against another Celica. They have similiar mods, BUT the other Celica had a 8LB flywheel and lost at topend. I know someone else can explain better then me though.

[RedNOSceli]

It's your wheels for sure. Glenviper's Car is OBVIOUSLY slower when he runs the 18's..Throw on the stockers and see what happens...It'll be a total differance.

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2000 Celica GT-S Red
TRD SPRINGS
Revalution Exhaust
N.O.S wet fogger 50shot (Temporarily out of Service)
Nitto 450 tires
Clarion Head Unit
AEM Cold Air Intake
*NEW* B&M Shifter



AOL/Instant Messanger users IM me at FearFire69

dee5330.. no i cant land on the 2nd cam..but its not becuz of the flywheel..its becuase the 2nd gear synchro is shot.. and I cant get into 2nd at high rpms..im thinking of how to fix that as we speak..

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[Speed Racer]

Originally posted by yakkosmurf:
Originally posted by Dave B:
220lbs with a no toruqe motor = much slower car. Low torque cars are affected by weight much more than a torquer V8. You can expect to be almost .4 slower in the 1/4.


Dave


Wow. I need to lose some weight before running the quarter again. No wonder I can't catch up to the times of some of the Asian Type R owners. http://www.newcelica.org/ubb/biggrin.gif



Hey yakko..what are you running in the 1/4 anyhow? My friend is runnin 12.9 in his R

[dee5330]

Originally posted by larryd:
dee5330.. no i cant land on the 2nd cam..but its not becuz of the flywheel..its becuase the 2nd gear synchro is shot.. and I cant get into 2nd at high rpms..im thinking of how to fix that as we speak..



Well if you do get the chance to fix it, get some pix of the shotty syncro and tell us how the repair was. My 2nd gear synchro is shot also, and I took it to the dealership and they supposively couldn't duplicate the fault. Good luck with that!!!



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[jlevy]

The lighter flywheel is not lighter to reduce weight of the car, but to reduce inertia. SCC had an article on the effect of a lighter flywheel a while back. It helps acceleration more in first gear, less in second, less in third, etc. In my last two cars (both RX-7s), I've replaced the factory 27lb flywheel with a 14 lb flywheel and noticed a significant difference in first and second gear acceleration. The only place a heavy flywheel helps is off the line when drag racing.

[atehrani]

Damn larry, you got your new motor in and everything and you didn't tell us?

How is the new flywheel? I am very tempted to get one as I am going to replace my clutch soon (with an ACT).

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2000 GT-S 6spd Carbon Blue
I call her Cindy!
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i didnt tell anyone cuz its not done yet.. im still adjusting a few things here and there http://www.newcelica.org/ubb/smile.gif

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[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by Speed Racer:
Hey yakko..what are you running in the 1/4 anyhow? My friend is runnin 12.9 in his R

I've got an intake and header. Got a 14.4 on my only track trip. Car is probably good for a 14.3 maybe 14.2 in its current config. I'd just need to practice drag racing a little more, but it's not really my thing.

ahh.. get yo ass bak 2 da track man! http://www.newcelica.org/ubb/smile.gif..haha

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[yakkosmurf]

Originally posted by larryd:
ahh.. get yo ass bak 2 da track man! http://www.newcelica.org/ubb/smile.gif..haha



I need to. But I have to find some time. Going out of town every weekend is not allowing me to get to the track or even drive the R.

[TRD-GT]

well larry i think that u have a great combination of problems little ones....the oil will take a few hp...being ticker...also the weight(in a torque less car makes a world of difference), the wheels, also the problem u have with the syncro???...will make u slower from a dead stop...also u are out of practice...but definetly check the compresion and dyno it....good luck

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beto

[racinjason]

Actually I don't know much about the physics of a lightened flywheel. Some people say you loose that weight for momentum of the engine and others say you rev faster and some say it depends on the design etc. I would say change the oil back. Which you can actually loose hp. Not hitting 2nd above 6k will kill you too. I know I am not as fast because I am so afraid to speed shift second now since I got my tranny work done. I am still fooling around with that trying to get it just right.

Also the weight will definately knock a few thens off your time. When I carry any friends with me especially over 175lbs, I don't bother to race anyone. I can feel how much slower it is. Even with my amp(5lbs), Box and sub etc(25lbs) I can tell it hasn't helped. Weight is everything!!! In alot of race series weight is more important than HP!

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Best ET 14.442@97.93mph
AEM Underdrive pulley, Tien Supsension, Wings West Body kit, Erebuni Wing, APC clear corners, Titan Motorsports rear sway bar, Cusco Lower arm bar, NC.org strut front and rear strut bars, Titan Motorsports CAI, TRD Exhaust, OZ Racing f1 cup wheels, Nitto 450 tires, Benevento Dash Kit, MB Autosports hoodscoop, S2000 antenna, polished valve cover, Clarion headunit, Clarion APA2200 100x2 amp, diamond audio 12" sub, fiber glass stealth enclosure w/ lexan top.