From Automobile Magazine on the next Celica due in Fall 2004

[djm221]

"The new model will continue the car's 'back to basics' philosophy - so far, all wheel drive is not in the cards. The reception to the current model's styling has been luke warm, however, so Toyota designers are invetigating themes that are 1 180-degree turn from those of the present car. U.S. input, so critical in the styling of the current Celica, is rumored 'to be of only secondary concern' to the produt development team, a slap on the hands for the U.S. studio."

Nice. Since when was the reception of the styling been luke warm? I've only heard of a few people actually hate it, not many are "luke-warm" to it, but most love it. Why does Toyota think the Celica sales increased so drastically from the previous generation? Unless they do something great with the powertrain, I guess they'll realize how much the styling helped sell the car if the design does a 180 degree turn.


There was also a blurb about the Supra, due for sale in 2004, and should be shown in Oct. Tokyo motor show. It's to use 3.0l and 3.5l NA engines with 6-spds - no real new info there.

[ArchangelX]

What the hell...my god..I think the current version is HOT when it comes to looks..fugg. Not to mention, I see Celicas everywhere I go now...

Damn..they need to get off the crack they're smoking...ya know what?

Screw it..I hope it comes out as a 200HP toaster with wheels and tanks when it comes to sales...

[GINYU-GTS]

i'm with ArchangelX on this one! i hope the next celica is a boat! heavy luxury and slow and handles like the titanic!! that way i would love my celica even more!!! go 7th gen! :burnout:

GTS-6

[OfficeMonkey]

Man I can't believe some car companies are so lost. The Celica is a great looking car it's just the powertrain is below the competition. The sales were great in the beginning when it was an Integra killer but the sport compact car market has seriously waken up since then and the Celica can't compete in it's current form anymore. It has the looks, the handling, the great brakes, and the low weight all the freaking thing needs just needs more power and a stronger motor that is more mod friendly. Maybe a turbo :)

[Chiznarles]

What the hell? Automobile magazine doesn't know sh*t..

i hope Toyota doesn't f*ck up the design like Mitsu did w/ the Eclipse.

[bLaH1031]

Originally posted by OfficeMonkey
Man I can't believe some car companies are so lost. The Celica is a great looking car it's just the powertrain is below the competition. The sales were great in the beginning when it was an Integra killer but the sport compact car market has seriously waken up since then and the Celica can't compete in it's current form anymore. It has the looks, the handling, the great brakes, and the low weight all the freaking thing needs just needs more power and a stronger motor that is more mod friendly. Maybe a turbo :)

Well put, I agree.

[djm221]

I think I trust Automobile more than the other big mags. C&D , R&T, Motor trend are all the same thing with a different cover. They always seem to have the exact same comparisons and news.

Anyway, the only positive that could maybe be pulled from that snippit is the "back to basics" ideology. RWD is a more basic drivetrain design that FWD, so maybe the next Celica will be RWD. They need to do something a little different, especially if they return to blah looks.

[Toy Yoda]

Hmmm... Considering there have been rumours of a new AE86 successor, a RWD Celica would be a much more economical choice than to offer 2 platforms (a cheaper, FWD, less performance-oriented GT model would still be the bread-and-butter model of the line though)

[Da Kine Guy]

A lot of people don't like the current look, I've had many many people tell me that.

[ArchangelX]

I've never really had anyone tell me it's ugly..most were like..dayam!!!

[2kgtx]

Originally posted by Da Kine Guy
A lot of people don't like the current look, I've had many many people tell me that.
:stupid: I think the Celi either has love'em or hate'em looks

[Blue Batmobile]

I'm convinced the next Celica will be out late 2004. Don't be surprised though, if it looks similar to this. Reason I say that is look at all the newer Toyota's coming out. Very similar styles.

Bat

[00 scrub]

Oh god, please don't let them turn it into antoher eclipse. I don't like the sound of teh 180 deg change. Sounds like they want to return the Celica to its secretary car roots of teh 6th gen. I doubt they would make it RWD, although that would make the 8th gen Celica far more appealing to our crowd.

[dennis]

yea, that new celica LOOKS alot heavier for some reason, and it looks like toyota is appealing to the older consumers....???? anyways, it looks "ok"

[Keyshawn]

You never know, guys. Making it an uglier, poorer-performing, less mod-friendly car might not neccesarily hurt the next gen Celica's sales at all. Just look at the current gen Eclipse: Its sales numbers are far superior to the previous gen Eclipse's, even though the current car is inferior in so many ways (looks, peformance, mod potential, etc.). I could see Toyota doing something similar to the Celi in an effort to increase sales. They're probably blaming the cutting-edge styling from their California design studios as the reason why U.S. sales weren't as good as they had wanted. Strangely enough, Toyota's ignoring the real reason why so many more U.S. sporty-car buyers flocked to the current Eclipse than the 7th gen Celica: HORSEPOWER.

[Fiero]

I am going to stick with my predication that the car will be underpowered, overweight, and aimed at attracting women.

I also bet it will have no where near the HP it has now, perhaps only a 1ZZ. There will be only a 5spd offered for obvious reasons. Finally, there will be no aftermarket support because no one will want to mod it.

Of coarse if I ruled the world....

It would be a WRX Killer. Returned to the roots of a turbocharged, AWD platform that put out 250hp or more for the GT. The GTS would go directly after the EVO or and STi with 300hp and various handling goodies. But then again...I don't rule the world. ;)

[Aris]

i hope it get like 250 hp but looks very similar to the one today, so people driving cars like 350z and impreza would shut up forever in the one department they are better.

[iDRIVE]

"back to basic" So out with the vvtl-i, in goes the 3s-gte is that what they mean by back to basic? I hope so...

I doubt theyll ever make RWD under the celica badge. And i dont think the next gen celica will look like the pic above. Remember theyre going "back to basic....looks only secondary concern", maybee it will look like a box with two doors and 4 wheels....like the saturn comercial.

BTW, theres alot of eclipse because mitsubishi is practically giving them away, 0% financing no payment for 6months kinda stuff.

[Blue Batmobile]

Originally posted by dennis
it looks like toyota is appealing to the older consumers....????

That's why they created the Scion line.

Bat

[2000whiteGTS]

Isn't the Celica going to be included in the Scion line? I'm almost positive they said the celica, corolla, and tercel would be, with the camry, avalon, solara and trucks being in Toyota. Anyway, I like the way the car in that picture looks that Bat posted, as long as it doesn't get too close to the way the new 350Z looks, good that thing is hideous, the 300ZX looked 10X better.
It's my guess that if anyone's response to this car is luke warm that Toyota is asking the wrong people. This model is the coolest looking car out there under 50K. All of the competitors in styling are over that, like the NSX, Prowler, 360 Spyder, Murcielago, etc. If Toyota is asking people over 40, of course they are going to say this isn't that nice, they are the reasons Camrys and Accords are the top sellers. Demographically, we are the ones who matter when it comes to these kinds of cars. My mom isn't going to buy a Celica, she's buying a Maxima or something.
I also have a subscription to Automobile, time to write my first letter to them.

[TW00Si]

The current celica design is bolder and sporty than the previous generations. Many people like the look and there's a friggin celica on every other block here in Flushing, NY. It's just insane...

It's true that some people don't like the design but I think the majority does. Hence the car can be spotted, once again, like every other block.

I don't care for the looks of the new celica. I hope the new one looks crappy. This way I don't feel bad for having mine...hehehe...knowing myself, I can't keep a car too long...I keep switching cars. I don't need any more temptations with the RX8, EVO8, 350Z, STi in the market.

[Deaks2]

Celica sales in Europe and Japan are WAY down from the 6th Gen. The lack of an All-Trak model killed Japanese sales.

[red97gsr]

Originally posted by 2kgtx

:stupid: I think the Celi either has love'em or hate'em looks

That's what I have always thought too.

[ArchangelX]

Originally posted by Deaks2
Celica sales in Europe and Japan are WAY down from the 6th Gen. The lack of an All-Trak model killed Japanese sales.

And who'z fault is that? F'ing Toyota...because they have absolutely lost touch with the market.

[BRAK]

Honestly if toyota doesnt sell the next supra under $35,000 or the next celica becomes a "family car"
toyota just lost another fan.
I like the underdog ... so the next car might be the RX-8 or 350Z

[TRD Liquid Silver]

rumours, rumours, that's what they are. i would not set anything in stone until we see a final pre-production concept at some auto show which should be next april at the ny auto show.

as far as looks i think they'll keep with the current trend of pulled back front headlights which seems to be a toyota staple of design of late. i wouldn't be surprised if its even more edgier than the current celica where it borrows a lot of its looks from a Formula 1 car. remember champ cars were edgy and round in the nose area whereas f1 cars are just plain edgy.


http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_photo.html?recnum=002277


http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_photo.html?recnum=000340

they've always used the celica to showcase their current endeavors in design and technology from rally to champ cars. i wouldn't be surprised if we see something f1 related in the design of the next 2004 celica.

[Blue Batmobile]

I can't wait to see what they come up with!

Bat

[CeliCar]

Originally posted by ArchangelX


And who'z fault is that? F'ing Toyota...because they have absolutely lost touch with the market.

The market is always a game of leapfrog. At least in the US Toyota stepped it up a notch with the 7th Gen. High revving N/A seemed to be the way things were going. Sure enough the RSX, the primary competition for the Celica, followed a similar path.

Now all the sudden other manufacturers who couldn't win at that game are bringing back high powered FI models to get an edge.
I don't think it is realistic to expect Toyota to halt production mid run and switch to producing turbo/awd Celicas to match models that didn't exist when the car came out.

I had a 6th gen and that was a car that was truly out of touch with the market, even BEFORE anything better came out. Even the 7a-FE(105hp)/3SGE(135hp) models were over 20k. Japan got the GT4 still but they would have probably charged 30k for that over here and it would have been cutting into already poor supra sales.

I just think we should wait and see what they actually do before we say they have lost touch since it seems to me that they were atleast on the right track this time around.

[Fiero]

Toyota is absolutely in touch with the market...

.......the family car market. They are even getting in touch with the truck market and the Tacoma has been one of the best small trucks out there.

They simply have no clue anymore about the sport market. It's sort of like GM in the sport compact market.

The current Celica was a good shot at the high rev FWD. It had look and a good dose of power. Unfortunitly, Toyota did not build it with any forethought to the competition improving. Now it lags behind even family cars like the Altima and Maxima for raw speed (handling too if you ask the Altima guys), and FWD is looking a LOT less apealing.

They need the Supra, the GT4, and a car like the current Celica. That way, all budgets can get performance. Under $20k gets a high reving 4Cyl NA FWD. $20k to $29K gets a powerful AWD Turbo car. About $30k gets the Supra.

[TRD Liquid Silver]

i agree that they need to bring out more sporty cars but people also have to understand how fickle this market segment is. look at yesterday's news the wrx, rsx-s, 350z. at the start these vehicles were so hard to get now they're all sitting at the dealer lots. i've seen 4 to 5 350z sitting at dealer lots here in socal and people are no longer paying addendums for them. a friend of mine whose a sales manager at a mossy dealership is selling some of them with a $1500 discount.

just wait 8-10 months and you'll see the same thing happen on the evo and rx-8. if nissan was smart they'd allocate only one Z to every dealership every month like the MR-2 spyder. we still get tons of calls for them and the need hasn't died down.

[TRD Liquid Silver]

the family car market. They are even getting in touch with the truck market and the Tacoma has been one of the best small trucks out there.

cause that's where non fickle buyers exist. regardless of how old the design of a camry or tacoma, people still buy them by the thousands every year. the 2001 camry that had a 5 year old design still sold 400,000 plus in 2001 before the all new redesigned 2002 camry cameout.

[Cash Money]

calty designs did a beautiful job with the car, i give them much respect... toyota, gave a good engine and awe-inspiring handling... they just didn't deliver what EVERYONE WANTS, MORE POWER from this great motor... Turbo and AWD would pretty much own with this car... *knocks on glass* hello... Evolution, WRX... SRT-4... Turbo cav... 350Z... MP3... NO ONE WANTS ANOTHER CAR TO GO THE WAY OF THE ECLIPSE, just offer more powertrain variations to accomidate everyone's needs... and yeah... bring on the MKV supra... the way it better be... like the owning detuned 320hp TRUE SPORTS CAR it was, but even better...

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by Fiero
Toyota is absolutely in touch with the market...

.......the family car market. They are even getting in touch with the truck market and the Tacoma has been one of the best small trucks out there.

They simply have no clue anymore about the sport market. It's sort of like GM in the sport compact market.

The current Celica was a good shot at the high rev FWD. It had look and a good dose of power. Unfortunitly, Toyota did not build it with any forethought to the competition improving. Now it lags behind even family cars like the Altima and Maxima for raw speed (handling too if you ask the Altima guys), and FWD is looking a LOT less apealing.

They need the Supra, the GT4, and a car like the current Celica. That way, all budgets can get performance. Under $20k gets a high reving 4Cyl NA FWD. $20k to $29K gets a powerful AWD Turbo car. About $30k gets the Supra.

Great points! I totally agree. Toyota is great at appealing to the markets you've mentioned. Props for their successes, but they definitely could be better (MUCH better) at appealing to the youth market. Their failure to turn TRD USA into a bigger presence in the rapidly growing import/compact performance market was a mistake, as is their decision to not be so generous with giving aftermarket companies test cars to help develop products. They've let the explosion of interest in import/compact performance pass them by without taking advantage of it, while many other companies have seized the day. They have to be more attuned to what young people want if they want to remain on top in the years to come.

[Fiero]

Originally posted by Keyshawn


Great points! I totally agree. Toyota is great at appealing to the markets you've mentioned. Props for their successes, but they definitely could be better (MUCH better) at appealing to the youth market. Their failure to turn TRD USA into a bigger presence in the rapidly growing import/compact performance market was a mistake, as is their decision to not be so generous with giving aftermarket companies test cars to help develop products. They've let the explosion of interest in import/compact performance pass them by without taking advantage of it, while many other companies have seized the day. They have to be more attuned to what young people want if they want to remain on top in the years to come.

Thanks! And I absolutely agree with your points as well.

TRD...One would think that with the proximity of TRD to Toyota R&D that TRD would have a whole line up of homegrown high performance parts right from the get go. I am not as familiar with TRD of Japan, but TRD of America seems to just randomly choose a car...usually one like the Camry... to make performance parts for. Not to go on an anti-TRD rant, but the Sportivo package was about the only thing they offered initially and it was a questionable improvement at a equally questionable price. Then Hotchkis came along and Sportivo was laughed off most Celicas.

Admitedly they do offer a good exhaust and their LSDs have been great. But it's not enough.

What Toyota should do (Armchair Quarter backing YEAH!) is truly integrate TRD into it's product line. They should develop parts while the car is being designed. Then once the car is launched, sell them in a TRD store in selected dealerships. You could go in, much like what Dodge is doing with the SRT-4, and immediatly be able to buy parts under warranty. Need an LSD? Have them put it in from the getgo. Perhaps even order from the factory ala the "Action package"

The Celica is very good stock. Imagine if you could get a TRD Hotchkis quality suspension package right from Day 1 under warranty.

Additionally, if Toyota wants to get aftermarket support, they have to give them access. So, again like Dodge, they should be handing out cars to just about everyone.

But hindsight is 20/20 and I might be blind.

[CA2003celica]

I am with Chiznarles! The new eclips looks hella ugly compared to the last! I hope they dont change the style i love the 7th generation and i just bought my car so i would hope it doesnt go out of style any time soon! the new one looks ugly! Like the new nissan

[TRD Liquid Silver]

Originally posted by Fiero


Additionally, if Toyota wants to get aftermarket support, they have to give them access. So, again like Dodge, they should be handing out cars to just about everyone.


how many dodge srt-4 have you seen on the road? i've seen 1 since that car cameout in socal and in local street races 0. it just goes to show that just because you build a car that can do 0-60mph in 5.8secs doesn't bring buyers in.

[Da Kine Guy]

Originally posted by TRD Liquid Silver


how many dodge srt-4 have you seen on the road? i've seen 1 since that car cameout in socal and in local street races 0. it just goes to show that just because you build a car that can do 0-60mph in 5.8secs doesn't bring buyers in.

Dude, the car JUST came out. How many WRX's did you see a year ago? Give it time bro. WRX's are dime a dozen now and the SRT-4 numbers are gonna increase too. It's like me callin' the EVO and RX-8 crap because I have yet to see one on the road... THEY JUST CAME OUT!

[TRD Liquid Silver]

Originally posted by Da Kine Guy


Dude, the car JUST came out. How many WRX's did you see a year ago? Give it time bro. WRX's are dime a dozen now and the SRT-4 numbers are gonna increase too. It's like me callin' the EVO and RX-8 crap because I have yet to see one on the road... THEY JUST CAME OUT!

don't know about a dime a dozen for the rex, cause if they were they wouldn't be chillin at dealers lots. i admit they're out there but i don't see one everyday here in socal. dodge will be lucky if they sell as many srt-4 as subaru with the rex. the enthusiast will buy the srt-4 but will not attract average mr joe. i hate to say it average joe is the mass population buyer. all we can hope for with toyota and not trd is to have cars that are aftermarket friendly and not necessarily more factory tuned parts.

trd is hopeless for filling the enthusiast need for parts. case example, toyota has even gone as far to have aem, obx and piaa, to have parts available for the scions when people want to customize them. that's all we can hope for is that the next generation 2zz is more aftermarket friendly.

[Blue Batmobile]

Originally posted by TRD Liquid Silver
a friend of mine whose a sales manager at a mossy dealership is selling some of them with a $1500 discount.



Rich,

You gotta hook me up with this guy:).

Bat

[BRAK]

WITH dodge and its SRT-4 line up of mopar parts from MOPAR stores, you will see a new trend coming out and no doubt toyota will compete and "renew" the TRD image.Same is with Nissan, with the NISMO stores about to be put into dealerships and genuine nismo parts for the SE-R and 350Z. Mazda has also a line up ready for the cars such as the "6" , protege, RX-8 ect.
Acura is at where toyota is now with suspension add ons and body kits with differant rims! Not one of you realized that Acura is doing identically what toyota has already done .. gave a package deal with a sportyer look and better handleing , but we have exhaust and LSD, and now header. Acura does not have that option. Everybody is changing now .. THE NEW SCION line is being strongly supported by aftermaket companys like a TURBO from greddy already, and AEM, Volk ect ect.The celica is supposed to go under the new SCION name(SCION for the younger faster crowd) we will see a support strongly ... look and the Bx

This doent happen over night ... and realise that toyota brought out the celica a tad early with its bump up .. to be followed by wrx,evo,protege 5 turbo, rx-8,350Z....... i think there ready to bump it up a notch and take the trophy for a while.

[Keyshawn]

Originally posted by BRAK
...Not one of you realized that Acura is doing identically what toyota has already done .. gave a package deal with a sportyer look and better handleing , but we have exhaust and LSD, and now header. Acura does not have that option...

You forgot how Acura/Honda has, over the years, encouraged aftermarket support from independent companies by offering test-cars and technical assistance to them. Companies such as GReddy, AEM, DC, and many others have received help like this from Acura/Honda. Celica owners, on the other hand, have had to help out aftermarket companies themselves. I, myself have donated cams, exhaust manifold, intake manifold, and hell, my entire car to help aftermarket companies make products for us. Ever notice why companies always ask US to donate parts and/or cars, instead of getting them from Toyota?

[BRAK]

point taken

[scapamouche]

Originally posted by Fiero


What Toyota should do (Armchair Quarter backing YEAH!) is truly integrate TRD into it's product line. They should develop parts while the car is being designed. Then once the car is launched, sell them in a TRD store in selected dealerships. You could go in, much like what Dodge is doing with the SRT-4, and immediatly be able to buy parts under warranty. Need an LSD? Have them put it in from the getgo. Perhaps even order from the factory ala the "Action package"



Mazda is doing that as well, without the factory hop up support...
Mazdaspeed.... I would expect Toyota do do the same: sell a fully modded hopped up car, then provide NO MORE parts to upgrade that. Instead, they'll offer all the parts of the special model for LOWER trim level cars... (no... I'm not bitter... :( )

[Blue Batmobile]

I just got my issue in the mail yesterday. Looks like from the article, that Toyota is aiming more towards a mainstream appeal on the next Celica. I see a more toned down version next year. Kinda like what Mitsubishi did with the Eclipse.

Bat

[TRD Liquid Silver]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Blue Batmobile
[B]

Rich,

You gotta hook me up with this guy:).

Bat

[TRD Liquid Silver]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Blue Batmobile
[B]I just got my issue in the mail yesterday. Looks like from the article, that Toyota is aiming more towards a mainstream appeal on the next Celica. I see a more toned down version next year. Kinda like what Mitsubishi did with the Eclipse.

Bat

[BRAK]

I agree .. with the SUPRA comming out next year we will see a "smoother" but more redifined celica, the little brother to the supra, but still high performance.Maybe with a turbo, or sc option. It will also fall under the SCION name (i belive) and be more targeted to the tuner scene. For example the Bx and its already huge aftermarket with C.A.I,springs,exhaust,Greddy turbo kit, Body kits ect ect ... toyota is now giving there cars to companies for supporting advertiseing.
Toyota is not blind, they see the HUGE uprising of the import tunner world and they also want a peice, thats why the supra is such a big suprise, they didnt want to show there cards until everyone else put theres down.

[IMwhite]

automobile magazine is right. the 7th gen celica just isnt selling like toyota had hoped. it has sold less cars than the previous generations, and because of this, there may not be a celica in the near future. my dad said that toyota still has not decided whether to keep manufacturing the celica or to just let it die. so come 2005(car year) there may be a blank space on the auto show floor.

[FriedRice]

if i'm not mistaken the 6th gen sold like crap, prompting an overhaul of the celica line, the entire idea behidnt he celica changed, from a secretarys car to a bonafide sports coupe...

i think it sold better than the 6th.

[CeliCar]

Originally posted by FriedRice
if i'm not mistaken the 6th gen sold like crap, prompting an overhaul of the celica line, the entire idea behidnt he celica changed, from a secretarys car to a bonafide sports coupe...

i think it sold better than the 6th.

In the US the 6th gen had 105 and 135hp, more weight (imagine the convertible model!), and a higher price than the current model. You could hardly find a new one on a dealers lot in 98-99. Meanwhile even the base integra had 140hp yet wasn't anymore expensive.

I had a 94 and was really hoping we would get the rumored VVT-i version of the 2.0l 3S-GE making around 220hp for the 7th gen but no such luck. Not surprising though seeing as how they didn't give the US spec 6th gen the 3S-GTE/AWD to spare it even higher sticker prices.

Too bad they don't give the MR-S the 2ZZ and some better styling for the same price it is at now. That Lotus Elise that is being brought to the US is nice but $39,000. :(

[2000whiteGTS]

Think maybe the economy has something to do with the decline in sales? Add to that the fact that there are so many choices now with "tuner" cars to buy. You got everyone and his brother buying civics and integras, RSX, WRX, eclipse, lancer, accord, sentra, and such. Back when the last model celica was out all I can remember that was cool was the stealth/3000GT, the 300ZX, and maybe the 2nd gen integra, but all of those were too expensive. So now we have lots of cars, with similar attributes, all around the same price to choose from.
As for the Scion brand, all I can say is what a joke. I don't know what they are thinking. I have seen 1 Aztec on the road all these years, with dealer plates on it, and 1 Element driven by an asian lady, the Bbx is going to be in that same category, hidious.